Karol Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Just now, Furuzzolo said: KO battletome is pretty outdated. I've seen people in the Lets chat:KO call the errata "our real battletome" The tzeench battletome may have been changed too, tzeench players are the only ones at my store that don't have to run around with their books, but with piles of paper. Don't know how much of their book got changed though. Plus I think it is more important to ask what units that actually get used seen errata, if a unit is bad and no one uses it, it matters less, although a new player can get burned thinking he is buying in to something that works, and it doesn't work at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.J Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 6 hours ago, Killax said: Because sales is what drives Games Workshop first. In the end the game is a byproduct of selling models for them. Not so much the other way around. No matter how I look at this, I do not think 'free stuff' is a boost to the game. It is a direct way to sell more stuff however. I realise that Games Workshop are a business, but the people designing the game aren't the people running the business - they want to make the game fun and fair. As a game designer myself I know "the company" can influence the course a game takes and some concessions have to be made along the way, but I think it's rather short sighted to assume they've brought back summoning just to make some extra cash. GW have been all about pushing the cinematic look and feel of their systems recently and summoning isn't any different. It's something (some) players have been asking for to come back. I know my local group thinks summoning is pretty much useless in its current iteration. Cash for models may have been GW's MO for many years, and it's hard to argue that wasn't the case, but it really seems they want to push the quality of their game systems now. Have some faith! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 34 minutes ago, Xasz said: You cannot ignore the format of a medium and its issues ... It's not that easy with armybooks, imagine this: new player drops 20 bucks on it right away, and learns after his first few games that he's playing wrong despite having read the whole thing. He just spent the equivalent of 5 kebabs for some colored pages, and outdated information. Exactly. Software updates happen across the board/seamlessly/automatically. One day the text or code says one thing, the next day it's different. No need to manually cross reference sources. Books need better planning, and if I'm paying professionals who create books for a living, I expect better quality control. In not-gaming reality, I regularly buy products that are flawless. My new fan moves air around exactly as advertised. The buttons on my new shirt keep my chest wrapped up and covered perfectly. Even my fancy new refrigerator does everything it was billed as being able to do without me having to add on a part to make the ice maker do what the manual says it should do. Professionally produced items all, and not one "errata" required. Don't get me wrong, GW had made huge strides in the last few years, and I actually do appreciate their commitment to FAQ and errata docs. I just think l, like some others here, that it's tough to know that the items you are buying from them can often feel like beta releases ... That you are paying alpha prices for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drofnum Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 8 minutes ago, Karol said: The tzeench battletome may have been changed too, tzeench players are the only ones at my store that don't have to run around with their books, but with piles of paper. Don't know how much of their book got changed though. Plus I think it is more important to ask what units that actually get used seen errata, if a unit is bad and no one uses it, it matters less, although a new player can get burned thinking he is buying in to something that works, and it doesn't work at all. For KO, a lot of the ships changed. Thunderers got killed off, Skywardens/Endrinriggers changed, Khemist changed. A lot of Artifacts were changed significantly as well. Thats what I can think of off the top of my head. The warscroll cards I use for my KO list almost all have something scratched out and edited on them now. I think the Arkanaut Company are the only ones that dont in fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drofnum Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Just now, Sleboda said: Exactly. Software updates happen across the board/seamlessly/automatically. One day the text or code says one thing, the next day it's different. No need to manually cross reference sources. Books need better planning, and if I'm paying professionals who create books for a living, I expect better quality control. In not-gaming reality, I regularly buy products that are flawless. My new fan moves air around exactly as advertised. The buttons on my new shirt keep my chest wrapped up and covered perfectly. Even my fancy new refrigerator does everything it was billed as being able to do without me having to add on a part to make the ice maker do what the manual says it should do. Professionally produced items all, and not one "errata" required. Don't get me wrong, GW had made huge strides in the last few years, and I actually do appreciate their commitment to FAQ and errata docs. I just think l, like some others here, that it's tough to know that the items you are buying from them can often feel like beta releases ... That you are paying alpha prices for. It would help A LOT if they updated warscrolls on the app to match FAQ/Errata. At least then you would have one place to go where everything is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daedalus81 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 2 hours ago, bsharitt said: Yeah, it looks like they updated it. The article went out early today, maybe it wasn't fully ready to go. Which is interesting, because it means any other errors noticed could be chalked up to miscommunication instead of omissions by the rules team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Rowe Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 6 minutes ago, Drofnum said: It would help A LOT if they updated warscrolls on the app to match FAQ/Errata. At least then you would have one place to go where everything is correct. I think they generally do, don't they? You just have to delete the existing one on your device and then download again. I ran into this problem with some Death scrolls I had on my iPad after the Nagash book came out. I wish they'd send an email whenever they updated them, or else just updated them automatically, of course, but I do think updated ones are available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daedalus81 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 9 minutes ago, Sleboda said: Exactly. Software updates happen across the board/seamlessly/automatically. One day the text or code says one thing, the next day it's different. No need to manually cross reference sources. Books need better planning, and if I'm paying professionals who create books for a living, I expect better quality control. In not-gaming reality, I regularly buy products that are flawless. My new fan moves air around exactly as advertised. The buttons on my new shirt keep my chest wrapped up and covered perfectly. Even my fancy new refrigerator does everything it was billed as being able to do without me having to add on a part to make the ice maker do what the manual says it should do. Professionally produced items all, and not one "errata" required. Don't get me wrong, GW had made huge strides in the last few years, and I actually do appreciate their commitment to FAQ and errata docs. I just think l, like some others here, that it's tough to know that the items you are buying from them can often feel like beta releases ... That you are paying alpha prices for. A little apples and oranges there. Most people still prefer the feel of a book. GW offers digital solutions that can get updates. The consumer has some blame here. And in a living ruleset it just can't be avoided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Syf Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Anyone else think kurnoth hunters and spirits of durthu needed a points increase rather than decrease? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chord Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 I use the books. I could use my smartphone but the screen is too small for me to read well, and the zooming is annoying. They don't support my Surface Pro tablet so that is out. And I don't want to invest in another tablet when I have one. They need to move to a PWA that runs everywhere! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drofnum Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 8 minutes ago, Christopher Rowe said: I think they generally do, don't they? You just have to delete the existing one on your device and then download again. I ran into this problem with some Death scrolls I had on my iPad after the Nagash book came out. I wish they'd send an email whenever they updated them, or else just updated them automatically, of course, but I do think updated ones are available. They do it for new/updated tomes but they dont do it for FAQs. For an example pull up the Skywardens and their drill cannon still shows 3 damage, in the FAQ this was changed to D3. Edit: Thunderers do show the correct warscroll, but that was an entire warscroll change in the GHB not just an FAQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmanphill Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 36 minutes ago, Twitch of Izalith said: Yeah I think they missed a trick with the skaven - recyclable clan rats and slaves units would have been a nice way to represent endless hordes of rat kin emerging from their tunnels It might come if the Skaven get a proper release in this edition. 42 minutes ago, Gecktron said: 2. No, thats not even an exaggeration. One Döner Kebab is 4€-4,50€ and a Battletome costs 20-25€. It’s €4,90 here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skabnoze Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 10 minutes ago, daedalus81 said: A little apples and oranges there. Most people still prefer the feel of a book. GW offers digital solutions that can get updates. The consumer has some blame here. And in a living ruleset it just can't be avoided. This is a fair point, but GW has a very long history of sending out books that have numerous errors on day 1. It will happen sometimes, but they could do a lot better in that regard. If nothing else, their editing and proof-reading has always been on the poor side. In regards to rules, it is not uncommon to have loop-holes or issues big enough to drive a truck through on the book release. Most games do run into this issue, but I find that for a number of other companies it is more of a rarity and with GW it can be fairly certain that any physical book is going to have a number of issues. I still buy them and enjoy them, but I really wish they would put more work into releasing a better product - especially at the prices they charge. Yes they have a complex game, but so does just about every other game company and many others do a better job at keeping book issues to a minimum. GW has always just felt sloppy in that regard,. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naflem Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 52 minutes ago, bsharitt said: I figured skaven would be able to summon verminlords being demons and all, but I'm surprised by the clanrat thing. That was actually always a thing Skaven could do, though I bet they've rewritten the relevant spell to be less broken. The Dreaded 13th Spell is the named verminlord's unique spell, and it currently allows you to replace any slain models with a Clan Verminis model (which included one of the other Verminlords, amongst other things). Fluff-wise I believe is that the spell was transforming the slain models into Skaven. But anyway, I bet they've changed the available options from "any Verminis model" to to just clan-rats for balance sake. Excited that the roll of 12 on a Screaming bell is actually going to do something now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tokek Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Killax said: I think many seem to miss what errata means, it means correcting mistakes made. To the point where I ask, why is that mistake there in the first place. We know that the designers from Games Workshop are getting paid, it is their job. If I made as many mistakes that needed to be fixed through errata on a monthly basis I'd lose my job after two months basically. For me it's not about keeping up or not. It acts as an example why GW has product matter first and game(s) after. Errata sounds better as 'fixing mistakes made' but that shouldn't excuse making this many mistakes. Games Workshop isn't selling books or models for 'cheap', I believe that in this day and age your allowed to expect some more quality. If you bought a phone (roughly same cost as a 1K army) that constantly had errors that needed to be updated you'd return it aswell and likely make a complaint about it. I see no reason to excuse GW if I pay good money to play these games. A car without windows can keep up with a car who does have windows. That doesn't mean it's a good excuse to start selling cars without windows. Every piece of software you run has bugs in it; as a software QA professional I can pretty much guarantee that. That phone you refer to - filled with software which is riddled with bugs and modern phones do need regular updates unless you want them just as a honeypot for all the hackers out there. What GW has done is what any responsible company does nowadays, committed to issuing patches for issues as they are discovered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skabnoze Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 17 minutes ago, Christopher Rowe said: I think they generally do, don't they? You just have to delete the existing one on your device and then download again. I ran into this problem with some Death scrolls I had on my iPad after the Nagash book came out. I wish they'd send an email whenever they updated them, or else just updated them automatically, of course, but I do think updated ones are available. The amatuerish level of software out there by large companies just tends to blow my mind. Granted I am a software engineer and work in the industry, but some things just should not be as difficult or un-user-friendly as they are. There is no reason whatsoever that the Age of Sigmar app (which I do like) should not automatically update downloaded warscrolls or at least notify the user that something they have downloaded has been altered by a newer version. With the current App I just kinda need to know that the warscroll has changed and then I need to delete it (which is not intuitive either) and download it again. Also, for my iPhone the download sometimes gets messed up and the warscroll is totally garbled and unusable. GW is by far not the only company that has this issue with contracted software, but I just shake my head and wonder at the design decisions many of these companies make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoseman Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Idoneth got realeased a month and Leviadon has changed his warscroll but on the app still the not correct one. Those things should be changed and said to users because a lot of people dont look for reading faqs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 43 minutes ago, daedalus81 said: A little apples and oranges there. Most people still prefer the feel of a book. GW offers digital solutions that can get updates. The consumer has some blame here. And in a living ruleset it just can't be avoided. I get the apples and oranges aspect of it. I really do. That said, I'm not talking about points changes, or interaction with rules published later. I'm talking about the product "working" correctly the first time. A book should not have typos, at a minimum. Rules in books should not be poorly worded so as to be ambiguous or confusing. When you purchase a book of rules, the rules should be clear and free of typos. This is not a player-made issue. Digital availability is not the way to put the blame on those who buy physical goods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherJosh Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Unfortunately with their move to epub3 documents, and not updating their ePub eBooks it's a bit frustrating. So ... they could update them. But they don't... and they're moving away from their old interactive Apple iBook eBook solutions that did get FAQ updates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daedalus81 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 10 minutes ago, Skabnoze said: This is a fair point, but GW has a very long history of sending out books that have numerous errors on day 1. It will happen sometimes, but they could do a lot better in that regard. If nothing else, their editing and proof-reading has always been on the poor side. In regards to rules, it is not uncommon to have loop-holes or issues big enough to drive a truck through on the book release. Most games do run into this issue, but I find that for a number of other companies it is more of a rarity and with GW it can be fairly certain that any physical book is going to have a number of issues. I still buy them and enjoy them, but I really wish they would put more work into releasing a better product - especially at the prices they charge. Yes they have a complex game, but so does just about every other game company and many others do a better job at keeping book issues to a minimum. GW has always just felt sloppy in that regard,. No doubt. I think they're mostly better than the pre-AoS rules confusion. 40K is pretty good aside from still letting crazy people take extreme RAW stances. I'm willing to get them the benefit of the doubt right now since they've been producing an insane amount of rules and while doing that rewriting AoS? The workload is immense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie Grimwood Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 9 minutes ago, Naflem said: That was actually always a thing Skaven could do, though I bet they've rewritten the relevant spell to be less broken. The Dreaded 13th Spell is the named verminlord's unique spell, and it currently allows you to replace any slain models with a Clan Verminis model (which included one of the other Verminlords, amongst other things). Fluff-wise I believe is that the spell was transforming the slain models into Skaven. But anyway, I bet they've changed the available options from "any Verminis model" to to just clan-rats for balance sake. Excited that the roll of 12 on a Screaming bell is actually going to do something now. The Masterclan Vermin Lord’s (Warpseer?) command ability is a summon as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamopower Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 That description for Khorne sounds like they'll get a smaller summon with less blood tithe points to get bloodletters and such. Pure speculation of course, but would make sense, no one is going to summon anything short of a Bloodthirster with 8 points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsharitt Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 18 minutes ago, Jamopower said: That description for Khorne sounds like they'll get a smaller summon with less blood tithe points to get bloodletters and such. Pure speculation of course, but would make sense, no one is going to summon anything short of a Bloodthirster with 8 points. That was my guess when the new summoning rules came out. I think they'll just have their bloodtithe menu expanded to allow for smaller units for the lower points along existing options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thostos Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 So is Ardfist the only way Destruction can bring models back so far? Its a nice battalion for sure,,though totally relying on the warchanter not getting ganked straight away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xasz Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 20 minutes ago, Jamopower said: That description for Khorne sounds like they'll get a smaller summon with less blood tithe points to get bloodletters and such. Pure speculation of course, but would make sense, no one is going to summon anything short of a Bloodthirster with 8 points. They'll probably make it a bit more tiered like Nurgle and limit the unit types and unit sizes. I'm fine with this. LoN is still questionable, but there might be a restriction right around the corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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