Forrix

GW has a strange obsession with Stormcast. I'm pretty sure regional managers beat store owners who don't push them to every customer that walks in the door. Ally wise I think both will work well enough for regular games though Fyreslayers have a specific Mercenary Company you can bring.

Something that I find so weird about these endless discussions about priority rolls is that it is taken as a given that going first is a massive advantage that requires mitigation somehow. In a nut shell, I almost always give away first turn to my opponent as there is an advantage in going 2nd and by going 2nd I will get access to the first double so its just a winning more scenario. Due to scenario scoring my opponent will typically move up onto objectives their first turn, cast some buffs and that's about it. Then on my turn they are in range for offense casting, shooting, and charging. The only notable exceptions to this are if they're playing a durable army with the ability to get onto objectives turn 1 in a scenario that they can quickly achieve an insurmountable points lead such as duality of death. Alpha strike armies are best answered with chaff and careful deployment in my experience though the double turn can be a nice though unnecessary buff when dealing with them. The idea of going 1st being such a massive, game deciding advantage seems to come from 40k but there are big differences between the games. Namely, in 40k: Shooting is MUCH higher ranged and more damaging in 40k than in AoS. In 40k 24" is a fairly short range shooting attack while in AoS that would be considered long range. 36" to 72" is the typical range of your more powerful guns in 40k. Armies are typically shooting focused too in 40k compared to AoS's melee focus (obviously there are armies that eschew this in both games but it generally holds up).

Depends on the army. If your losing a Harvester to melee units you probably need to bubble wrap him better with Mortek Guard (and keep more Guard in range of his rez ability). I've been working on my MawTribes and CoS recently. With Mawtribes about the only chance in hell you have of killing a Harvester is with the Underguts/Tyrant Trophy Rack/Ironblaster spam list and that list presents its own issues. In Cities though, yeah, I don't think killing a Harvester is going to be difficult with things like Scourge Runner Chariots, Irondrakes, and Hallowheart spells.

Oh lord, here we go again! My usual: Hate it, don't feel its necessary in AoS as more often than not there is no advantage in going first. Would require an edition change to eliminate due to Endless Spells and at least one scenario working off of player order.

So the reason HoS are so dominant internationally at high levels after a good 6 months of people being able to adapt to them is that all these tournament players are bad at the game?

I mean, if your okay with 1/2 to 3/4 of battletomes being unplayable then I suppose it's okay. A good part of the reason HoS is so good is a decent chunk of battletomes just dont have the tools available to solve the problem they represent and people dont want to jump ship due to aesthetic/gameplay/hobbying/money reasons. Negative play experiences are inherently subjective so that's just me. With MSU builds you at least have the option to remove them from an objective and they get weaker in the scenarios with only 2 to 3 objectives. Most local tournament players I know like to pick a faction based mostly on aesthetics and lore with some focus on the gameplay. They then see what they can accomplish with that faction. They dont expect to go 5-0 in a GT but they want to feel like they have a shot in most of the games they play. When players get curb stomped in 90% of the games they play seemingly regardless of army build or tactics they either quit or change armies. In AoS 2.0 our local scene has had all our Kharadron Overlord or Nighthaunt players either quit the game or switch armies. Bonereapers have been super popular and I'm expecting them to drive out the melee armies from our tournament scene. The casual scene might be different as our Bonereaper players share the opinion that the book is crazy overpowered and of course, want people to actually want to play against them. So I think there will be less Petrifix Elite/Harvester/Mortek Guard spam in the future.

Editing since you expanded your statement. In any game dice rolls play a big part and I'm sure I could have made some better choices. I'm also sure my opponent wasn't an world class tournament player and a 10 man 3+ rerolling, 6++ unit battleshock immune unit that can regain 3 models a turn and get pumped up to high damage dealing levels easily is well above average at guarding backfield objectives.

It's so interesting when a game is decided at scenario selection. You dont even have to waste time trying to play it!

Gotta say I hate this to the point I'm thinking of quitting. Maneuvering doesnt matter when their 130 point battle line beats your 400 point tricked out killing machine let alone any chaff or objective runners.

The issue I had in my game vs them as Maw Tribes is they were invincible and killed anything that touched them. More specifically, he had a blob of 40 Mortek guard with a Harvester that moved forward onto one of my objectives (4 in the game) and screened a good portion of the board. I had no way of getting to the Harvester and thus no way of damaging the unit as a 3+, 3+, 6++, 4++ and rezzing 3 models in his hero phase rendered it immortal. His objectives were guarded each by a 10 man unit of Mortek Guard. Moved my FloSH against one but could never kill it and the Mortek guard eventually killed the Frost Lord. I did manage to score some points though thanks to the Frost Lord counting as 10 models and killing 1 or 2 Mortek Guard per turn. Against the other objective I sent 4 Leadbelchers and a Tyrant and was eventually able to take it after 3 turns thanks to a lucky roll on my Tyrants' Hammer. He then died to the Mortek Crawler though that was mostly due to horrible dice rolling on my part. I dont think the whole bonereapers battletome is broken but Petrifix Elite Mortek Guard especially with strong magical support (Arkhan) and Harvesters are an absolute Nightmare for some battletomes to face and bring new meaning to "Negative Play Experience".

Have you seen them in person? They're a very good kit. Kinda static like a lot of the stuff made for old Fantasy infantry blocks but otherwise excellent.

You're out of your mind if you think they're in the same bracket as Mawtribes. PE is the most insane thing I've ever played against in wargaming.

I'd go brawlerguts over Giantbreaker for more consistency and a wider range of targets. The issue is that the artifacts that are suppose to boost his damage are inferior to the general AoE buff artifact when it comes to the damage he himself puts out. The reroll hit/wound command trait is good but far to specific to every be worth taking in an all comers list. Edit: I don't think he meant the Beastriders, Huskard, and Thundertusks were overcosted by just 20 points. Stonehorn beastriders are good enough I want to actually try them out before judging but the Thundertusks (all versions) could easily be dropped by a 100 points or more.

I've played a couple games with the Tyrant and found him to be super swingy. His hammer can be nasty when it actually connects. I wish he had an artifact that boosted both of his weapons. I feel like he's got a good attack profile but its split between the Hammer and the Spear and their respective artifacts wind up feeling lackluster since they only buff half of his weapons.

I magnetized mine, haven't had any issues with the cages or anything. I will say the thing is massive enough it takes up a lot of room in my carrying case.

They only do a mortal wound (from their warscroll ability) when they flee. Still, haven't given much thought to Warding Brand but it seems quite good on cheap melee guys now that I think of it.

Got my Anvilgard start collecting boxes in...Its been mentioned but I just didn't realize how big their base is. The thing is the same bloody base as the Stonehorn, 120mm oval. I the footprint of a unit of 3 is massive, possibly the biggest per point spent in the game. It makes me want to run a bunch even more for the lolz.

My poor wallet.... That said, I consider 3 an auto-include in the lists I've been building. If anyone has that many chariots please run it lol. I'm curious to hear how it does.

The Huskard on TT is what I'd run I'm just iffy on the point cost not a bad unit just feels like 340 is a lot. I'm tempted to take Keening Gale on him for an alpha(ish) striking FrostLord on Stonehorn (18 move in Boulderhead). I'll point out that I think a FrostLord on TT (with the enemy strikes last mount trait) is actually legit just stupidly overcosted at only 10 points less than him on a Stonehorn. The Punches and Kicks are weird. I figured they would streamline the mount profiles like they did in Orruk Warclans with Riders having a single attack profile and the mount having a single attack profile but nope... Just a better command ability on the Frostlord in general would help a lot. As it is the generic reroll charges ability is almost always better. Even a bubble of +1 charge would have been better.

I'm on the fence about Thundertusks. If they were just a little cheaper or had a 6" bubble of -1hit instead of just themselves being -1 then I think I'd take one or two. I've got one sitting on a shelf so I might give him a spin just to see. They do run into an issue of really just being good against big blobs so they're not that great against in all comers list (that's really a MawTribes issue more than an OBR though, Beastclaw Raiders are just so poor outside of the Frost Lord). For the Leaders, yeah, since they get one RD point per leader each round (and two for a Liege Kavalos) and d3 from that spell. Kill the leaders and they're looking at 1 RD point per battalion (likely 1) and then fishing for 6s for the rest of their units. Not to mention you'd shut off Drain Vitality and Empower Nadirite Weapons and any endless spells (once they're dispelled).

Got out an played a game against Bonereapers (Petrifix Elite) and talked with three Bonereaper players about them. Definetly the most absurd game I've ever played in AOS (me playing as MawTribes). Main take aways: Relentless Discipline points are easy to come by and not at all a scare resource. 7 to 10 seemed the normal range to generate per battleround. This is a major deal for my next two points: The reroll saves on Mortek Guard is crazy good (as expected). Coupled with the rez 3 models ability from Arkhan there wasn't a feasible way for me to put a dent in these units. He had a harvester escorting his 40 man block around though I honestly think that's probably overkill. I had a Frostlord on Stonehorn fail to kill and die to a 10 man Mortek Guard unit over 3 turns (on the Mawtribes front, the counts as 10 models is great and he scored me several points despite getting killed by a 130 point unit) . He had 3 Mortek guard units (1x 40man and 2x 10 man) and took the battalion that lets one unit reroll for free. Between this and the Relentless Discipline generation he had all 3 units rerolling saves for every combat in the game. The unexpected thing for me as the Rend Command ability. I hadn't thought about it much but it really ups their damage and is readily available thanks to mass RD points. Coupled with an endless spell giving +1 hit, a spell for exploding on 5s, and an artifact for +1 attack these guys were absolute blenders in addition to being super tanks. I expected them to be hard as nails but I wasn't expecting the damage output. He was typically using this on one unit per turn. The Nexus.... kept the -1 cast/unbind on my butcher all game. Coupled with Arkhan it meant I didn't really have spell casting and I couldn't do anything against his. He was using a spell to gain d3 RD points too (feeds into above). Mobility: Definitely not a weakness like some like to bring up on this forum. Not a strength either really but the ability to gain +3 movement and still run makes up for the lack of auto run 6. A 40 man Mortek guard unit has a large footprint and 10 man guard units are strong enough to guard objectives from most chaff units (or you know...Frost Lords on Stonehorns….). Also, a lot of scenarios only have 2 to 4 objectives... That all said I did notice some weaknesses. Shooting. No rerolls against shooting meant my leadbelchers shooting attacks were doing more damage than anything else in my army. Likewise mortal wounds really hurt these guys but you better be Hallowheart if you're relying on spells from them due to Arkhan's unbinds and the Nexus. The leaders: A lot of the craziness came from the RD points and support spells/abilities from the heroes. IF you can kill them I could see the army crumbling though base 3+ saves on units and battleshock immunity might still let them hold objectives for awhile. Telling people to just "Kill the heroes stupid" isn't really helpful advice when so many armies have such weak shooting and the heroes all sitting behind a wall of Mortek Guard. TLDR: A tuned Petrifix Elite army seems like the very definition of a Skew list. I can see them being beat by very specific counter builds that use lots of chaff and strong shooting (cough cough CoS or Hallowheart magic lists that will laugh at the Nexus and Arkhan's unbinds). But general "all comers" lists are going to fail hard and some entire battletomes are just not going to be capable of doing anything. I specifically say "tuned Petrifix Elite list" since outside of that subfaction the army seems substantially weaker which I suppose is a good thing for Bonereapers players seeking friendly games.

I'm probably going to do an Anvilgard list with an Anointed on Frostheart Phoenix with the 5+ FNP artifact and Gotrek for the lolz sometime. I could see it being crazy good on Duality of Death too.

How do these rules interact? Or more the point, is Vitrolic Spray considered a modifier for the purpose of Ethereal?

I hadn't thought of that but I believe those buffs would stack. That would be comically tanky. I'd be tempted to take the Frost Heart Phoenix for the extra damage and Blizzard Aura. The resurrection might be wasted since it probably would never die once and I hate single all important dice rolls.

There was a rumor a while ago that said Gutbusters would get an overhaul and be made bigger with armies consisting of about 15ish models with units consisting of 1 to 3 models. Obviously debunked for Ogors but maybe what someone saw were prototypes for a new giant army? An entire army of either single model units or up to 3 models per unit would be elite to an extent surpassing Ogors (normally about 30ish if running Gutbuster heavy) without having to rely on mounted units and not running into the design issues that would arise from having an army with only 3 to 6 units.