Unpopular opinion thread

[Orbei]

19 minutes ago, Lurynsar said:

Lastly Cities of Sigmar should just die. I’m all for Dawnbringer Crusaders coming to life. Bringing a mixed race force of Elves, Dwarves and Humans who worship (at some level) Sigmar. But give them their own unique look and have units mixed races. Then kill off the last vestiges of WFB from this line. Lumineth replaced the High Elves, use the Corsairs as a unit for Umbraneth Elves or whatever. Kill of the old Empire and Dwarf lines. And then if you want create the Khazilid Empire for more Fantasy like dwarves in a super book with KO and Fyreslayers I am okay with that. 

Kind  of with you here. I am glad CoS exists so people can play those old armies, but I really don't like those armies on the field. Cool old models but they don't make any sense at all in AoS. So we are to believe that the races mix together in these cities living side by side, yet when it's time for war they segregate themselves by race, grab their ceremonial armor from the old world, and fight in units from a bygone age? They should be all mixed together with new fancy units. 

[Ratboy genius]

1 hour ago, Lurynsar said:

Skaven should be mostly gutted. Lose everything of the stupid Pestilens, Eshin and what not. Stop being chaos. 

Then they should be moved to Destruction. Make them their own empire that’s bent on the destruction of everyone else’s and Rat dominance. 

Then reimagine them from the ground up as a “weird science”. This will have something similar to the Skyre theme. But even more so. This stupid divided mix is awful and uninspiring. 

Beasts of Chaos need to be changed to Beastmen or Wyldbeasts of whatever for a trademark. Then redesigned away from Chaos themes to just pure and utter hatred for civilization and made Destruction (seeing a pattern here?). 

That or just remove Grand Orders anyways. They’re stupid. But regardless I want Beasts and Skaven their own unique armies more than they are now and not tied to chaos at all ideally. 

Lastly Cities of Sigmar should just die. I’m all for Dawnbringer Crusaders coming to life. Bringing a mixed race force of Elves, Dwarves and Humans who worship (at some level) Sigmar. But give them their own unique look and have units mixed races. Then kill off the last vestiges of WFB from this line. Lumineth replaced the High Elves, use the Corsairs as a unit for Umbraneth Elves or whatever. Kill of the old Empire and Dwarf lines. And then if you want create the Khazilid Empire for more Fantasy like dwarves in a super book with KO and Fyreslayers I am okay with that. 

I know a lot of people have a love for WFB. But I don’t. And I want to experience AoS as it’s own thing. Not with a bunch of pieces of WFB holding on. It would make the game better I feel. 

that is a contentious opinion.
BoC and Skaven don't have a non WFB identity because games workshop went along and made armies for all of the "main" chaos gods first. Skaven have also been chaos almost 6 times as long as age of sigmar has been a thing, so I don't know where people get the idea that they aren't chaos comes from.

[Lurynsar]

2 hours ago, Ratboy genius said:

that is a contentious opinion.
BoC and Skaven don't have a non WFB identity because games workshop went along and made armies for all of the "main" chaos gods first. Skaven have also been chaos almost 6 times as long as age of sigmar has been a thing, so I don't know where people get the idea that they aren't chaos comes from.

Yes it’s an unpopular opinion. And Skaven have been “chaos” without being tied to the pantheon forever. With the poor outing of AoS 1 they tried to jam them in to replace Slaanesh. Obviously management and design changed and they were left to languish in a pantheon that is very different than the WFB days. 

Skaven are one of the totally unique aspects of WFB, and could be one of the totally unique and interesting parts of AoS if it was just refreshed and got a new skin IMO. The stupid clans of WFB were bad in Fantasy and are stupid more so now. 

Both Skaven and Beastmen languish because of GWs design choice I agree however. That said, it feels pretty clear the Gods and the style of Chaos in AoS is going to be much more similar to 40K than to WFB. As such God armies are going to get the attention and the focus in Chaos. So let’s cut the ties of Beasts and Skaven from this (or as I said get rid of them all together because they’re kinda stupid from the get go) and allow them to become something totally new and totally unique and not just shoehorned into AoS Chaos which I don’t think they’ll ever fit with the current design theme and team. 

Edited October 29, 2021 by Lurynsar

[Ratboy genius]

10 minutes ago, Lurynsar said:

Yes it’s an unpopular opinion. And Skaven have been “chaos” without being tied to the pantheon forever. With the poor outing of AoS 1 they tried to jam them in to replace Slaanesh. Obviously management and design changed and they were left to languish in a pantheon that is very different than the WFB days. 

Skaven are one of the totally unique aspects of WFB, and could be one of the totally unique and interesting parts of AoS if it was just refreshed and got a new skin IMO. The stupid clans of WFB were bad in Fantasy and are stupid more so now. 

Both Skaven and Beastmen languish because of GWs design choice I agree however. That said, it feels pretty clear the Gods and the style of Chaos in AoS is going to be much more similar to 40K than to WFB. As such God armies are going to get the attention and the focus in Chaos. So let’s cut the ties of Beasts and Skaven from this (or as I said get rid of them all together because they’re kinda stupid from the get go) and allow them to become something totally new and totally unique and not just shoehorned into AoS Chaos which I don’t think they’ll ever fit with the current design theme and team. 

I think you might not just like skaven. Skaven without chaos and clans is just ratmen.

Destruction just doesn't have a real personality, adding factions with personality to it that are just slightly outside of the 40k mold doesn't make it better 🙂 

[Lurynsar]

59 minutes ago, Ratboy genius said:

I think you might not just like skaven. Skaven without chaos and clans is just ratmen.

Destruction just doesn't have a real personality, adding factions with personality to it that are just slightly outside of the 40k mold doesn't make it better 🙂 

Might be an unpopular opinion. But Skaven from WFB don’t fit in or belong in AoS. I believe Skaven as a race can be made to fit, but the current flavour they have is basically just WFB barely reskinned. And it’s bad. 

Again I’m posting this here because I understand a lot of people who loved these WFB races strongly disagree with me. But the games dead (for the better) and if they’re not going to be given a real AoS flavour then toss them in Legends and move on. The new armies made for AoS are by far the best flavour. The ones reskinned properly (say Daughters of Khaine which is a mix of old and new) fit pretty decently. The armies sitting here from WFB don’t look good model-wise and feel flavourless in comparison because they’re trying to straddle two lines I feel. The themes and general model tone could be rescued, but until they are I strongly dislike them and enjoy that locally almost no one plays them (Cities, Skaven, Ogors, Beastmen… sadly lots of Seraphon haha)

[Skreech Verminking]

3 hours ago, Lurynsar said:

sadly lots of Seraphon

Probably all skaven players who are just playing the stronger faction.

We all know it, there’s no denying it 

Edited October 29, 2021 by Skreech Verminking

[Maogrim]

3 hours ago, Lurynsar said:

Might be an unpopular opinion. But Skaven from WFB don’t fit in or belong in AoS. I believe Skaven as a race can be made to fit, but the current flavour they have is basically just WFB barely reskinned. And it’s bad. 

Again I’m posting this here because I understand a lot of people who loved these WFB races strongly disagree with me. But the games dead (for the better) and if they’re not going to be given a real AoS flavour then toss them in Legends and move on. The new armies made for AoS are by far the best flavour. The ones reskinned properly (say Daughters of Khaine which is a mix of old and new) fit pretty decently. The armies sitting here from WFB don’t look good model-wise and feel flavourless in comparison because they’re trying to straddle two lines I feel. The themes and general model tone could be rescued, but until they are I strongly dislike them and enjoy that locally almost no one plays them (Cities, Skaven, Ogors, Beastmen… sadly lots of Seraphon haha)

I kind of understand what you are saying about Skaven. I was genuinely suprised that they were still around when I started getting into Age of Sigmar. Which is funny because, if you look at them (Ninja ratmen, mad scientist ratmen etc.), they are the most AOS-feeling of all the WHFB factions. Yet they still feel like a misplaced relic..

What do you think about Soulblight Gravelords then? They are new and popular, but are just a remade WHFB model line with the ghostly stuff and the ghouls cut out. The oly new and fresh thing about them are the Vengorian lords and that's virtually just one leader model plus named version.

[Skreech Verminking]

7 minutes ago, Maogrim said:

Yet they still feel like a misplaced relic..

All that is needed is a model update😜

[Lurynsar]

24 minutes ago, Maogrim said:

I kind of understand what you are saying about Skaven. I was genuinely suprised that they were still around when I started getting into Age of Sigmar. Which is funny because, if you look at them (Ninja ratmen, mad scientist ratmen etc.), they are the most AOS-feeling of all the WHFB factions. Yet they still feel like a misplaced relic..

What do you think about Soulblight Gravelords then? They are new and popular, but are just a remade WHFB model line with the ghostly stuff and the ghouls cut out. The oly new and fresh thing about them are the Vengorian lords and that's virtually just one leader model plus named version.

For me personally Soulblight are a miss. I was really hoping for a “Vampire Faction”. Not new Vampire Counts. 

Give me the monstrous Vampires we got, but flesh them out more. Give me Vampire infantry, and other choices. If they needed a “horde” option I wanted Thralls. Humans of Shyish who serve the Soulblight under their banner. 

For me “Soulblight Dynasties” would have been my preference and truthfully was my hope. Majority of the army being elite Soulblight units of every makeup with Barons and Baronesses (or whatever name you wanted to trademark lol) as their generic leaders. Thralls fill the vassal role and serve as the numbers to bulk out and round out the army. 

Then you leave the Skeleton feel to Bonereapers and all of a sudden we have two awesome undead armies with their own niche and flavour and who feel more natural to AoS to me. Again this is all a personal opinion. Seeing redone Skeletons and Zombies were kinda sad. Especially when we got craziness from the crazy mutant Vampire and the gorgeous, huge and imposing vampire foot models of the Crimson Court. It was so close, and felt like such a cop out to me that it just about hit its stride and instead we got Vampire Counts 2.0. 

They’re also not really popular here. People who had Vampire Counts (or Legions of Nagash) play them. But only like one person bought into them brand new. Death as a whole isn’t popular. A smattering of Bonereapers and Nighthaunt has a lot of fans, but they need serious help so most people have other factions they play instead. Quite a feel people like the theme and feel of Flesh-eaters. But they (myself included) seem to be waiting to see if GW fleshes out (heh) the range while keeping the flavour and making it interesting. 

[Skreech Verminking]

8 minutes ago, Lurynsar said:

They’re also not really popular here. People who had Vampire Counts (or Legions of Nagash) play them. But only like one person bought into them brand new. Death as a whole isn’t popular. A smattering of Bonereapers and Nighthaunt has a lot of fans, but they need serious help so most people have other factions they play instead. Quite a feel people like the theme and feel of Flesh-eaters. But they (myself included) seem to be waiting to see if GW fleshes out (heh) the range while keeping the flavour and making it interesting. 

Actually they are very common in my local area.

(the  again I do have to say that the older armies are represented more frequently in my local area then some of the newer (like stormcast, idoneth and so on)

Yet I did meet a ton of people who were pissed of, for not being able to take some of the ghost units as battle line  anymore

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by Skreech Verminking

[Feii]

11 hours ago, yukishiro1 said:

So basically what you're saying is...it's an unpopular opinion? 🤣

idk I don't treat all the unpopular opinions the same. If somebody says the moon is flat you know it is not true if on the other hand somebody says illegal immigrants are good for the economy then you really can have a discussion  about that. (and he made be right and it is plausible) 

Good unpopular opinion has the ability to be well right/true. 

[Phasteon]

2 hours ago, Maogrim said:

I kind of understand what you are saying about Skaven. I was genuinely suprised that they were still around when I started getting into Age of Sigmar. Which is funny because, if you look at them (Ninja ratmen, mad scientist ratmen etc.), they are the most AOS-feeling of all the WHFB factions. Yet they still feel like a misplaced relic..

What do you think about Soulblight Gravelords then? They are new and popular, but are just a remade WHFB model line with the ghostly stuff and the ghouls cut out. The oly new and fresh thing about them are the Vengorian lords and that's virtually just one leader model plus named version.

I really like Skaven, but I share the opinion that they are outdated modelwise. 

Pretty much all finecast / metal models need a rework or be replaced by something new. 

I think Gravelords nailed it. 

Pretty much old Vampire Counts but with new flavor and many new awesome models. 

Sooner or later they will do it anyway. 

[Skreech Verminking]

9 minutes ago, Phasteon said:

I really like Skaven, but I share the opinion that they are outdated modelwise. 

Pretty much all finecast / metal models need a rework or be replaced by something new. 

I think Gravelords nailed it. 

Pretty much old Vampire Counts but with new flavor and many new awesome models. 

Sooner or later they will do it anyway. 

Totally.

although I do kinda find it a bit lacking, that gw decided not to give us some kind of an elite vampiric infantry unit.

something like blood knights on foot 

[Takyz]

I-actually-have-no-idea-how-popular-this-one-is opinion : I find the idea that armies don't fit in AoS completely absurd. IMO pretty much everything fantasy-related fits in AoS, and that's the beauty of it. We have stuff ranging from Soulblight to Lumineth coexisting, all thanks to the diversity permitted by the mortal realms.

 

In the same vein, CoS are one of, if not the best thing to ever happen to AoS. While I agree that the minis are, for the most part, meh leftovers from WHFB (except the Kharybdiss, don't ever remove it, give it to IDK if you have to, but I need it to remain), the sheer creativity and conversion potential offered by CoS is exactly what makes AoS so great. I honestly think the best armies I've ever seen are all heavily converted CoS. (Although this one might be quite popular)

[Skreech Verminking]

20 hours ago, Takyz said:

I-actually-have-no-idea-how-popular-this-one-is opinion : I find the idea that armies don't fit in AoS completely absurd. IMO pretty much everything fantasy-related fits in AoS, and that's the beauty of it. We have stuff ranging from Soulblight to Lumineth coexisting, all thanks to the diversity permitted by the mortal realms.

 

In the same vein, CoS are one of, if not the best thing to ever happen to AoS. While I agree that the minis are, for the most part, meh leftovers from WHFB (except the Kharybdiss, don't ever remove it, give it to IDK if you have to, but I need it to remain), the sheer creativity and conversion potential offered by CoS is exactly what makes AoS so great. I honestly think the best armies I've ever seen are all heavily converted CoS. (Although this one might be quite popular)

I believe that that isn’t quit an unpopular opinion (I could be wrong though)

But I do believe your right.

truthfully said, aos is not only a high fantasy setting, that has to go into the absurd.

Sometimes there are just some normal things part of such a setting.

Also for which reason would the stormcast fight the forces of evil, if there was nobody to protect from the chaotic greater deities (excluding tzeentch, khorne, slaanesh and nurgle, lesser gods  shall not-not be squeak-mentioned)

And the orks….

they don’t look like a high fantasy army at all, yet are a favorite of a good amount of people (but as much favored as a certain other horde army)

Personally, if some of the older armies could get an update in Models (and some rules that allow them to be well, let’s say at least or just barely playable), I’m very certain that there would be a ton of people who would join the forces of the older ranges.

So lots of money to make, for a certain company (ya hear me gw).

 

Edited October 30, 2021 by Skreech Verminking

[amysrevenge]

Popular opinion (what the???)

I'm still very much enjoying this thread, even whilst seeing some opinions I don't agree with.  Some very interesting points are being raised, taking angles I hadn't considered before.  Even where I end up not agreeing, I'm enjoying thinking my way through the posts.  And on a couple items I think my own opinions may have shifted as a result.

[JackStreicher]

5 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Personally, if some of the older armies could get an update in Models (and some rules that allow them to be well, let’s say at least or just barely playable), I’m very certain that there would be a ton of people who would either join the forces of the older ranges.

This is the reason I haven’t bought any Freeguild infantry: I want new models for it first!

[NauticalSoup]

I honestly am not sure if this is unpopular because a lot of people seem to be happy about Sigmar 3.0 but I think nearly across the board 3.0 is a step backwards from 2.0 during its best days. For every nice housekeeping change like wards we have garbage like new coherency that just make the game awful to play. Nearly every addition is half baked and seems primed to become a sour spot in the immediate future if it isn't already. The internal balance on the new battletomes is embarrassing. Core battalions are already showing they have the exact same issue as warscroll battalions now that armies are getting specialized ones. All the new junk makes list building far more tedious while adding few genuinely interesting decisions. The core book enhancements are a mess. Many problems of 2.0 not only persist but are actively exacerbated by 3.0 (eg the shooting/melee gap).

Our local community collapsed as a result of covid arriving as 2.0 was being crushed under the weight of the worst battletome releases during its cycle, and we're just now getting our first event since the initial lockdown. It's going to be casual but the lead up has already shown the cracks are obvious and vast and only likely to get worse as GW begins to churn out 3.0 content.

[EccentricCircle]

5 hours ago, amysrevenge said:

Popular opinion (what the???)

I'm still very much enjoying this thread, even whilst seeing some opinions I don't agree with.  Some very interesting points are being raised, taking angles I hadn't considered before.  Even where I end up not agreeing, I'm enjoying thinking my way through the posts.  And on a couple items I think my own opinions may have shifted as a result.

Agreed. Its a testament to how good this community is that we can go this many pages of deliberately controversial statements without it degenerating into a mess. While I certainly don't agree with everything that has been raised, and some points have been a little more fraught than others, it has been thought provoking throughout.

I think it also highlights that at least within this somewhat biased cross section of the community, many of the things we assume are going to be controversial actually have quite a lot of support.

[Orbei]

Warcry shouldn't exist. The new warband models look really cool. At the same time, Nurgle gets 1 new model with their update. GW can't handle adequately supporting their mainline games (AoS and 40k) and it's sad to see so many cool models released for a niche game which appeals to a small subsect of the player base. It's a waste of resources. 

[MitGas]

2 hours ago, Orbei said:

Warcry shouldn't exist. The new warband models look really cool. At the same time, Nurgle gets 1 new model with their update. GW can't handle adequately supporting their mainline games (AoS and 40k) and it's sad to see so many cool models released for a niche game which appeals to a small subsect of the player base. It's a waste of resources. 

New Marauders in the style of the new Darkoath minis would've made waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more sense, agreed. I like Warcry as a Chaos fan but I totally get your point and think adding missing units to the Chaos armies (Skaven, BoC mainly) would've made MUCH more sense.

[yukishiro1]

I breathed a sigh of relief to see the new chaos book was Nurgle, not Khorne. Ever since the Orruk book came out and gutted the technical aspects of Bonesplitterz in favor of a "just move forward and hit things with lots of bad attacks and cheap wounds" I've been fearing that Khorne might get a similar treatment. Right now the faction is in this weird spot where the lore presents them as a bunch of dumb savages, but the army is actually one of the most technically satisfying to play, and the allegiance ability is probably the deepest of any army in the game. I am really afraid that it is a prime candidate for being hit with the "dumb" bat. 

[EccentricCircle]

5 hours ago, Orbei said:

Warcry shouldn't exist. The new warband models look really cool. At the same time, Nurgle gets 1 new model with their update. GW can't handle adequately supporting their mainline games (AoS and 40k) and it's sad to see so many cool models released for a niche game which appeals to a small subsect of the player base. It's a waste of resources. 

I absolutely see where you are coming from, but th counterpoint, which may be just as unpopular is this...

GW have been too obsessively focused on their "main games" for long enough, there is actually no rule which says that those should be the focu s. With proper support the "Side games" could be just a big of a brand. They know what sells better than we do, and will always follow the money.

[DOGGED]

34 minutes ago, EccentricCircle said:

I absolutely see where you are coming from, but th counterpoint, which may be just as unpopular is this...

GW have been too obsessively focused on their "main games" for long enough, there is actually no rule which says that those should be the focu s. With proper support the "Side games" could be just a big of a brand. They know what sells better than we do, and will always follow the money.

That. Moreover, aren't Warcry warbands incorporated into the "main" AoS chaos faction? Also, Underworlds gangs are in the battletomes so the only fantasy looking "not mainstream" game that has no models incorporated into AoS is Blood Bowl.

Maybe an unpopular opinion would be that there is, in the community, much nitpicking and lack of perspective; I mean, we are contemplating things in the now when we should be looking at them in the long run. In six years, we have seen nicely revamped or wholly new ranges (and then, those being expanded) like Stormcast, Kharadron, Fyreslayers, Soulblight, Daughters , Flesh Eaters, Bonesplitterz, Ironjawz, Ossiarch, Idoneth, Lumineth... Frankly, even the armies which did not get such resets are likely due to do so sooner or later. Then, the fluff is actually nice; IIRC the idea was that Skavens were able to "gnaw" their way across the Realms, and they are a main character of the biggest feature in the lore of late.

Just my 2 cents on that.

[Ratboy genius]

2 minutes ago, DOGGED said:

Frankly, even the armies which did not get such resets are likely due to do so sooner or later. Then, the fluff is actually nice; IIRC the idea was that Skavens were able to "gnaw" their way across the Realms, and they are a main character of the biggest feature in the lore of late.

skaven gnawing their way across the realms feels like such a lazy copy-paste of living underground from WHFB.