Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors

[jeanfluflu]

29 minutes ago, Champasaur said:

Idk man, Skarbrand will more than likely get nuked in one turn by double tapping longstrikes. As long as you get him off the board with support from the Tauralon, you'll be fine

with the presence of be'lakor he will most likely choose the raptor as his target to nullify them for at least one turn.

khorne deamon prince also gives him a lot of control over the borad with his ability to divide by 2 run and charges.
My best bet is to keep the menaces off the board with scion (raptors, dracoth) and then drop from the sky at the right time to kill the deamon prince and then maybe charge a key target.

matchup is tough with a lot of macro decisions to make that's why i'm excited for it.

[Requizen]

I finally sat down with some better scans and wrote up my thoughts

Spoiler

Allegiance Abilities - Blaze of Glory, and then choose between Scions of the Storm or Stormkeep

Scions of the Storm - Same as it ever was. Reserves are good, deep strike is good. We lost the -1 to hit baseline, so it’s not as insane, but the ability to leave important units and shooting units off the table then drop them where they need to be is still quite good.

Stormkeep - The slower version. Lose deep strike, gain better objective holding and sometimes deal MWs to enemies on objectives. As we’re a low model count army, making Liberators/Sequitors/Vindictors better at holding is a pretty reasonable boost. Also, Bravery Bonuses near those units, which is neat.
You also get the option to bring in Cities of Sigmar units as Coalition. It’s better than Allies since it doesn’t have the point restriction, but are there any Cities units that really add an insane amount of value? This is a pretty minimal boost at best.

Blaze of Glory - “Sometimes deal MWs when you die” is kind of lame as a faction defining ability. But it’s kinda cool on some units.

Command Traits - If your General is a Wizard or Priest, dunno if any of these beat out the Universal ones. If your general is gonna be someone running around doing stuff solo, not sure it beats out Universal +1 Wound either. 
Shock and Awe - Kinda bad
Staunch Defender - Kinda ok but still pretty bad
Envoy of the Heavens - Confusing. +1 save to a unit when one of their models die… sometimes useful? Good for a castle build that’s marching up the board, I suppose.
Master of the Celestial Menagerie - Amazing for Dragon builds. Meh otherwise.

Artifacts - Again, these have to compete with 5+ Ward from Universals, which is difficult
Blade of Heroes - It’s fine for Herohammer
Hammer of Might - Bad
Fang of Dracothian - Bad
Drakescale Armor - Reasonable, but not amazing. Might have to math out to compare to 5+ Ward against 2 damage attacks.
Mirrorshield - AMAZING for small Heroes you want to keep alive from shooting. Suck it, LRL.
Amulet of Silvered Sigmarite - Eh
Quicksilver Draught - Very matchup dependent and situational, but a double fight in general is good.
Luckstone - I want to like this, since sometimes that one dice will make or break a game, but it’s so limited compared to other stuff.
Obsidian Amulet - Extremely matchup dependent, but can completely ****** over Teclis, Nagash, etc if you’re lucky.

Spells - Competing mostly with Flaming Weapon for a Mounted Arcanum
Lightning Blast - Infinite Range damage on an easy cast is cool, but usually utility is better.
Azyrite Halo - Really good against massed chump attacks
Celestial Blades - Solid damage boost for melee units
Chain Lightning - meh, wish it was D3 MWs in the splash portion
Thundershock - Potentially devastating in a mass combat, but relying on 3+ is something you do at your own risk.
Starfall - Very meh, would have preferred guaranteed damage.

Prayers - Somewhat competing with Curse?
Divine Light - Solid damage boost, especially since hit rerolls are pretty rare at the moment
Translocation - Patently insane. Until FAQ’d, you can move in the subsequent Movement Phase, which is broken. Even without it, we all know how good teleporting units is.
Bless Weapons - Interesting, but dicey. Our crossbow units already have exploding attacks, and most of our units are low number of dice. But, on the right unit, this can be pretty devastating, so keep it under consideration.

Mount Traits
Aetheric Swiftness - Free, Charge-less pile in is insanely good. However, it’s only on the smaller Mounted Heroes, so it loses some sheen there. Still, a LCoDracoth or LAoDracoline can be a real damage threat, and this only helps them.
Light of the Young Stars - Is this better than the Rampages available? Situationally, so you could consider using it on your big dude to keep him safer.
Celestial Instincts - A solid all around default choice. Prevent yourself from getting tied up, or just add mobility. 
Envoy of Lightning - Meh
Scintillating Trail - Combos a bit with the Stardrake’s +1 to cast. This feels like it works with specific builds that want to cast, for instance, Everblaze Comet, but overall meh.
Thunderous Presence - I guess sometimes you want to prevent people from sticking around. Overall meh.

Holy Commands
Call For Aid - Once per game, get a free unit of 5 or less Redeemers. Is that insane? No, but in a Stormkeep sometimes effectively 15 models suddenly showing up on a point can change the flow of battle, so it’s not exactly bad either.
Steadfast March - The old Heraldor toot, but once per game. Run + charge is solid when you need it, so it’s a safe default pick if you’re not building around another one.
Thunderbolt Volley - Double shoot a unit, once per game. If you want to build around this and double tap 6 Longstrikes or 10/15 Judicators, it’s great. Otherwise pass.
Unleash Thy Hatred - Excellent if you’re doing a big Paladin brick, any of the 4 types do well with it and can obliterate a unit. 
Final Thunderstrike - Pretty bad.

Stormhosts - There’s no reason not to take a Stormhost now, so always take one.
Hammers of Sigmar - Situationally good. Some missions it’s busted, other missions it sucks. Also remember that in the current Pitched Battle setup, you remove Objectives, so it gets weaker as the game goes on.
Hallowed Knights - I generally don’t like dice based effects, but if you want to play super aggro you could do worse.
Celestial Vindicators - Exploding hits only when you charge, on one unit. Very meh.
Anvils of the Heldenhammer - Sometimes ignore 2 wounds from a unit, but it’s all combats across the board, so you should get at least a couple off. Damage negation is quite reasonable, though it’s still dicey.
Knights Excelsior - Make your Paladins better against a bigger unit. Not bad at all, though does nothing against other Elites or Monsters.
Celestial Warbringers - Potentially 15 rerolls per game, more if you’re using Unleash Hell and/or Thunderbolt Volley, or your opponent has similar abilities. That’s actually not bad at all, in the long run.
Tempest Lords - Supposedly the Prosecutor faction, but this is insane for Stardrakes and Draconiths. Strongly consider for Dragon builds.
Astral Templars - Meta dependent, but pretty good in the current state of the game

Grand Strategies - For some reason, just straight worse than the Core Strategies
Draconith Defiance - way harder than other Grand Strategies that do similar results, like Beast Master or Sever the Head.
Pillars of Victory - Hold the Line, but worse.
Sacred Charge - I guess it’s ok if you bring multiple Cities units, but your opponent will know to just go kill them. I guess you can use them as bait?

Battle Tactics
Pioneers of the Realms - Again, more Cities stuff. Really only good if you’re bringing fast or reserve Cities units, but then, why not more Stormcast?
No Challenge Too Great - Solid if you’re running a brick of Vindictors or Sequitors. Meh otherwise.
Hammerstrike Assault - Pretty difficult, and somewhat matchup dependent.
Lightning-Shattered Morale - Way too situational imo
Draconith Destruction - Easy if you’re building Dragons, though again, somewhat matchup dependent thanks to the Reinforced Units rule.
A Matter Of Honour - Again, matchup dependent, but both Stardrakes and Draconiths should be killy enough.

Core Battalions
Redemption Brotherhood - Nice if you want a low drop build and have too many units for a 1 drop Battle Regiment.
Brotherhood Command - Just a different Warlord Battalion, easier if you’re running Monster Leaders (but miss out on the extra Enhancement)
Soulstrike Brotherhood - A Grand Battery but trade Leaders for Units. I guess it’s nice if you’re running lots of MSU shooting.

Named Heroes

Celestant Prime - Improved, but still a bit iffy. Very neutered in missions like Tooth and Nail, but at least he doesn’t explode immediately anymore.

Krondys - Stormcast have a God-level model now! Or at least, he’s priced like one. Overall, he’s not quite Teclis or Nagash, but he seems reasonably worth his cost. Solid damage, MW shooting, and a pretty flexible spell on a 2 cast, +3 Wizard. Could do a lot worse for the points.

Karazai - Our other God-priced model, trades wizard power for more melee and a power level that ramps up as he kills. Wish he had a Ward save, but like his brother, for a massive, murder-y beatstick you could do a lot worse.

Yndrasta - A solidly flexible piece that can play support or branch out to go fight things herself. Best in a build where you can castle her with Paladins to keep bringing them back.

Bastian - A solid beatstick in most situations, and a good utility piece in Hammers of Sigmar. I’m not sure if he’s worth the points in other Stormhosts, but in general quite good.

Vandus Hammerhand - Seems relatively improved as a buffing piece in Hammers, he can be a force multiplier for 10/15 Vindictors or Sequitors, but loses some utility in other builds.

Aventis Firestrike - You’re paying quite a bit more compared to the basic Tauralon to get an extra cast, slightly better spell, some free healing, and a better melee attack. Is it worth it? Probably, but consider your points.

Astreia Solbright - For 5 points less than a generic LAoDracoline, you get a much better spell, but lose the ability to take Enhancements, and her buff only works on Hammers of Sigmar units (but can effect more than just Dracolines). So, consider your list.

Gardus - Pick Hallowed Knights, put a bunch of power units around Gardus, and roll around as a big’ol deathball until he dies. 

Gavriel Sureheart - Nerfed to the ground. I could still see using him, dropping down and giving out a free reroll, and he’s not terrible in combat, but you can do much better.

Neave - Absolute blender. There’s no reason to take the generic Knight-Zephyros for the same points unless you need the Stormhost keyword for some reason.

Leaders

Lord-Celestant on Stardrake - For 500 points, you can kind of consider him a generic version of Krondys/Karazai. Less damage, but gains access to Enhancements for 100 points less. I think he’s quite good at the moment.

Lord-Celestant on Dracoth - Reasonable damage for the cost, though 7 wounds is a bit squishy. Probably take Amulet of Destiny. Either way, a fairly affordable beatstick.

Lord-Arcanum on Tauralon - Pretty aggressively priced for a 12 Wound, 3+ Save unit. With all the important keywords, he plays missions well and brings utility. You can try to make him a beatstick with Flaming Weapon or Celestial Blades, as well.

Lord-Arcanum on Dracoline - Good for running around with other Dracolines and hitting flanks. Otherwise not amazing, but 200 is pretty solidly priced.

Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger - Fairly solid for a support piece that can also do damage. I like it.

Lord-Aquilor - Another ok beatstick on a mount, with solid mobility and good combos with other Vanguard units, I could see this guy being more common than he was before.

Lord-Imperitant - While the free CA per turn is nice, the main use here is in a Scions of the Storm army to make better drops for Annihilators, Vindictors, or in edge cases, Stormdrakes and Chariots. If you’re a Stormkeep… probably leave him at home.

Lord-Celestant - I wouldn’t say he’s… bad? But he’s very generic for the points. Free All out Attack is nice, but there’s better utility pieces out there.

Lord-Relictor - Insane. Two great Prayers on his warscroll, +1 Chanting for other Prayers (aka Translocation), and a buffed statline compared to last edition. Always consider.

Lord-Castellant - 8 Wounds and a great buff? Another excellent take, though a bit more expensive than before.

Lord-Exorcist - Bad

Lord Veritant - By itself, pretty ok. But compared to the Lord-Relictor for a Priest option? And more expensive? Pass.

Lord-Ordinator - Still fine if you want to make a Ballista Battery. Still only ok otherwise.

Lord-Arcanum - Not as interesting as the mounted options, especially for the price, but a nice debuff spell is never a bad thing.

Drakesworn Templar - For 45 points less than a LCoStardrake, you get overall worse weapons and, importantly, a worse save. I’d argue a 3+ save is worth those points every day of the week on a big model, but you could consider this if you wanted.

Knight Draconis - Lol. Insane. Not as crazy if you’re just running one solo, but combo’d with other Stormdrake Guard, these are close to busted. 

Knight-Relictor - Awful. Worse than the Veritant.

Knight-Judicator - A really impressive warscroll, but 200+ points for a 5 wound model is asking a lot. Pretty amazing for sniping of small Heroes or gimping a unit that is going to be charged, but the points may be prohibitive. Free Gryph Hounds are nice, though.

Knight-Vexillor (all) - All 3 banner options are pretty good. The Standard is always a decent nuke, the Pennant is excellent mobility utility, and the Banner is an excellent pick for castling up builds.

Knight-Venator - The warscroll here isn’t the issue. 6 ranged attacks, good mobility, and a Hero snipe are all still good. But the points… ugh.

Knight-Azyros - Hilariously nerfed. Still not trash, in my opinion, he’s relatively cheap, fast, and deals ok damage, and you can use him to pal around with other fast units to buff their combat.

Knight-Arcanum - Bad. Especially compared to the next choice.

Knight-Incantor - Insane. Not only is her spell reasonably good at debuffing, the auto-dispel is worth it every single time. Bring at least one, always.

Knight-Zephyros - As stated with Naeve, a solid little blender that can teleport. Again, consider Naeve instead unless you need to not be Hammers.

Knight-Heraldor - Nerfed into the ground. Oh, gained Totem? Doesn’t matter. Awful.

Knight-Questor - Basically just a Lord-Celestant that traded utility for extra combat power. No real need to consider it unless you really want the narrative.

Battleline

Vindictors - Solid, as expected from the new mini. 5 are fine at holding objectives, 10 are an actual combat threat, especially when buffed.

Vanquishers - Hilariously bad. The very best case scenario is that you play against an enemy spamming 10+ model units and you can run these guys around and put out 21 attacks per unit… but that’s not even that great.

Liberators - Surprisingly good at what they do, which is be a cheap unit that sits on an Objective and fights other cheap units that sit on Objectives.

Sequitors - The expensive melee option for Battleline, they have really solid damage (multiple Damage 2 weapons) and good defenses with their ward, and can choose to give up a Greatmace to get stuck in with Undead/Daemons to prevent them from returning models. Lots of utility, though they pay for it.

Judicators with Bow - Long range, reliable hitting, and potential Mortal Wounds. The pricepoint is prohibitive, but they kind of are worth it, especially with buffs and the Hero Phase shooting Holy Order.

Judicators with Crossbows - While exploding hits are nice, I think the volume of shots is still a bit low and with no rend. I would prefer other shooting options. 

Battleline-If

(Paladins - Knights Excelsior)

Annihilators - Hard as nails with good damage. Good.

Grandhammer Annihilators - Slightly less hard but with an absolutely bonkers attack. Also good.

Protectors - Insanely buffed. Why? I dunno, maybe they’re trying to sell them before they squat the boxes. Either way, just a bonkers unit to build a castle around. 

Retributors - Solid as always, really good Battleline.

Decimators - More matchup dependent than the other Paladins, but as long as your opponent isn’t elite, they’ll carve through units.

(Vanguard - Astral Templars)

Vanguard-Hunters - Improved from previous incarnations. Fast, with better damage, they’re pretty solid when Battleline for a more mobile and flexible alternative to shield or bow Battleline, but I wouldn’t take them other than that.

Vanguard-Palladors - Their damage went up a bit, but as usual the utility here is fast and pretty durable. I imagine these more as bodyguard units for a Gryph-Charger mounted hero than anything else.

(Dracothian Guard - Hammers of Sigmar)

Concussors - All around generally good. A bunch of 2 damage attacks plus Mortal Wounds is just beautiful.

Fulminators - Good in a fight, insane on the charge. Not much more to say.

Desolators - Not as good as the other two, but still great if they get stuck in with a horde.

Tempestors - Weakest of the bunch. The shooting attack is fine, but a bit weak for the pricepoint. Still good.

(Prosecutors - Tempest Lords)

Javelin Prosecutors - Not buffed in any way compared to before, and the Prime needs a FAQ for the Trident. They’re not awful, but there’s just so many better options.

Hammer Prosecutors - A bit better than the Javelin option, but not by much. Work ok as a Battleline choice, but the baseline Battlelines seem better.

(Stormdrake Guard - Dragon General)

Stormdrake Guard - Lol. Lmao. Absolutely insane. Yes, potentially weak to Mortal Wound spam, but other than that, these will be nerfed.

(Vigilors - Knight-Judicator General)

Vigilors - Not great. Short ranged shooting, no Mortal Wounds. The utility they bring with the hit bonus is nice, but for nearly the price of Judicators, why not just bring Judicators and have better shooting? There’s other options for +1 Hit effects.

Units

Castigators - So close to being good, once again. Pretty cheap, and have a reasonable amount of Rend-1 shooting, but they just don’t seem as efficient as other ranged options we have (which are a lot).

Longstrike Raptors - Doubled their shots compared to the last book, so the price jump doesn’t seem nearly as bad from a damage standpoint. Still very squishy, but units of 3 acting independently and taking potshots are really efficient. Or 6 using Thunderbolt Volley, for value.

Hurricane Raptors - Not crazy about the range or lack of Rend, but they’re not terrible. A lot like Crossbow Judicators, in that regard.

Aetherwings - RIP. Lost the best ability in the game. Now they buff hits, which is cool, and they’re still a cheap roadblock that can limit movement, but they’re not nearly as necessary as they used to be.

Gryph-Hounds - Fast, with anti-reserve utility, but made of paper. Is it worth the same points as a unit of Liberators? Not really.

Stormstrike Chariot - Super aggressively priced, these are missiles you chuck at the enemy and just try to trade. Reasonable damage (take the spear), MW impact hits, solid defense, and 12 dice towards Blaze of Glory after they inevitably get punked is not bad at all.

Praetors - Castle building unit. Stick next to a Hero and watch your opponent pull their hair out.

Evocators - Didn’t get the 3+ save of the Paladins, and lost some of the utility pieces that made them powerful. Main killer is Grandstaves going to 1”, which kills Reinforced units pretty hard. Still, they have Lightning Arc, which is always silly.

Evocators on Dracolines - Feel kinda weak overall, especially since Palladors and Dracothian Guard got buffed. 

Celestar Ballista - Gained some consistency compared to the previous version, which is always appreciated, though rapid-firing mode doesn’t have the same potential spikes as before. Better as a solo piece than they used to be, don’t really require an Ordinator as much.

Underworlds Teams (not joking)

Stormsire’s Cursebreakers - For 105 points more than a regular Knight-Incantor, you get 2 Evocators. That’s not even bad, it’s a cheap unit with 6 wounds that can run around and do things, plus gets an extra spell and unbind. You could do a lot worse with those points.

Steelheart’s Champions - Cheaper Liberators that have 2 Greatweapons but 2 less models. You could easily use these to save points.

The Farstriders - A Hunter unit with 2 less models, but for 75% of the cost and a bit of MWs. Like Steelheart’s Champions - looking to save some points? You could do worse. 

Endless Spells

Celestian Vortex - would be cool if it was cheaper

Dias Arcanum - would be cool if it was cheaper

Everblaze Comet - Still amazing, though you really have to build with it in mind. 

 

Overall I quite like the book. I think you could easily do a list without Dragons, though obviously they're very strong. But the book isn't just "all dragons" or "double tap shoothammer", there's other stuff to be explored.

 

But yes, Dragonspam is gonna be a thing until they hit them. A unit should probably be closer to 300+.

[Maturin]

6 hours ago, jeanfluflu said:

3+ save mostly

CAn't the hammer ones take shields too and get a 3+ ?

[Freejack02]

52 minutes ago, Maturin said:

CAn't the hammer ones take shields too and get a 3+ ?

Yes, but unfortunately that's all they can get - they have a 4+ listed but taking the shields can give them a +1 bonus. The Javelins on the other hand have a native 3+ that can be buffed to 2+ (which I know it feels odd putting resources into Prosecutor defenses, but here we are). 

Also the hammers suffer the same Prime issue of no Grandhammer listed as an option, which is why I think it's deliberate and not a mistake. I guess they got tired of the Prime carrying more than 50% of the weight for that unit... 

[Maturin]

6 minutes ago, Freejack02 said:

Yes, but unfortunately that's all they can get - they have a 4+ listed but taking the shields can give them a +1 bonus. The Javelins on the other hand have a native 3+ that can be buffed to 2+ (which I know it feels odd putting resources into Prosecutor defenses, but here we are). 

Also the hammers suffer the same Prime issue of no Grandhammer listed as an option, which is why I think it's deliberate and not a mistake. I guess they got tired of the Prime carrying more than 50% of the weight for that unit... 

i WAS WAITING FOR 3.0 to make those beautiful prosecutors viable. I'll wait for 4.0

[Sleepa]

17 minutes ago, Maturin said:

i WAS WAITING FOR 3.0 to make those beautiful prosecutors viable. I'll wait for 4.0

I'd play em while you can man, doubt they'll even be in the 4.0 tome

[jhamslam]

Honestly i think the dragons are fine. The MW breath is quite swingy and on average theyre about 10 damage to a 3+ save

Theyre good but not like 200 pt Evocators were 3 years ago. I think a lot of people are gonna lose spamming dragons and will be surprised when all they do is end up giving away 5 VP.

 

But 1x4 or MSU of 2 in any list is a strong addition

[Doko]

Yes,we had people crying about how the sky was falling with the new blood knigths or grave guard. And what happened?

5 months after and any winningt list dont bring grave guard and also blood knigths only is played one single unit and not spammed.

The same gonna happen with new dragons,good yes,but dont so good as people say

Edited September 16, 2021 by Doko

[Nizrah]

3 hours ago, Doko said:

Yes,we had people crying about how the sky was falling with the new blood knigths or grave guard. And what happened?

5 months after and any winningt list dont bring grave guard and also blood knigths only is played one single unit and not spammed.

The same gonna happen with new dragons,good yes,but dont so good as people say

What? Nagash + blood knight spam as entire roster is quite popular and did 5-0 and 4-1 many times... 

[JackStreicher]

1 hour ago, Nizrah said:

What? Nagash + blood knight spam as entire roster is quite popular and did 5-0 and 4-1 many times... 

Blood Knights remain solid but they‘re really not super great: too low volume of attacks, only rend 1. 🤷🏼‍♂️
 

I‘ve never seen a single Nagash+Blood Knight spam list tbh.

[jeanfluflu]

I'm going to try the new models this monday, hopefully getting good use of the Tauralon as @PJetski convinced me of his potential.
I have two lists available and i'm not certain of the use of the secondary characters, so anyway here's the framework:

Scion of the storm, hammer of sigmar (concussors battleline, LOL).
Lord arcanum on Tauralon: thunderous volley, celestial menagerie, drakescale armor and celestial blades.
Lord relictor: translocation
knight incantor: azyrite halo

2x5 liberators
4 concussors
2 stormdrake guards
6 vanguard raptors

 

Everything on a battle regiment for the sweet one drop army build.

I have a nice potential of damages with the thunderous volley on the vanguard raptor, i'd argue this is my win condition, that's why i chose scion of the storm to at least protect them from shooting and/or control effects on the first turn while they stay in the sky

My plan is to let my opponent start the game so i can get a potential double turn early on and drop to take back control of the boards where it's needed.

concussors pack a hell of a punch and stormdrake guards/tauralon are fantastic tanking units that i can get pretty much anywhere i need them to be and are both -1 to get wounded and 3+ save.

My dilmena is the following, the two buff heroes i'm with are nice like this but i'm a bit sceptikal of the value the knight incantor brings beside his scroll (a great safety net against tough magic armies but not very usefull against others).
If i decide to cast mystic shield/azyrite halo he would likely miss his spell or get unbind, what i mean is that his value depends on what the enemy brings.
Lord relictor is a beast, the TP prayer as well as the healing/debuff he offers would help me to save the raptors/debuff a piece that my tauralon has to block (suddendly becoming -1 to hit, -1 to wound on a 2+ rerollable save).

But i can swap these two for a knight vexillor with the TP banner (banner who works on any unit, anywhere on the table so it's pretty versatile and stable since i don't have to roll any dices or get into range) and a lord castellant.
Lord castellant brings another armor buff that i can put on the dracoth/tauralon/stormdrake guards that can also heal a little bit (much less than the D3 the relictor brings though) but it's a buff that requires no dice roll and cannot be countered

ideally i would bring both relictor AND the castellant but i only have points for one of these two combos, the increase in points of all these support pieces makes a big difference when it's time to make everything fit together under 2000pts.

What do you think? It's a tough call and i can't decide myself so any advices would help.

Thanks!

Edited September 16, 2021 by jeanfluflu

[Kodos der Henker]

Any chance the Heraldor is going to change?

And as I guess not, would it be acceptable to be played as Vexillor if I put a Banner on his back?

[Champasaur]

28 minutes ago, jeanfluflu said:

*snip*

Hmm. Definitely keep the Relictor. Getting your concussors/stormdrake in early will be a boon, but then having the flexibility later in the game to maybe TP the raptors out of danger would also be clutch. I think that combined with his other prayers makes him a much better choice than the one pump chump vexillor. 

Even against an army without heavy magic, a guaranteed unbind against a mystic shield or greater spell can make the difference without a doubt. While getting that consistent +1 to save from the Lord-Castellant is very nice, denying it from the other player at a crucial moment can be just as good (and at a cheaper cost).

[Champasaur]

21 minutes ago, Kodos der Henker said:

Any chance the Heraldor is going to change?

And as I guess not, would it be acceptable to be played as Vexillor if I put a Banner on his back?

Doubt it will change. And for friendly play I can't see why not proxy him.

[Balthasar]

I tried a list and I'm having a hard time figuring out if it's viable, strong, or just bad. The goal is to have 2 spells at +4 and 2 spells at +1 thanks to the stardrake boost and to make the most of the "Master of Celestial Menagerie" to make the 3 heroes very hard to kill.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals

- Army type : Stormkeep
- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar
- Holy Command : Call for Aid
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders

Krondys

- Spell : Celestial Blades

Lord-Celestant on Stardrake
- General

- Command Trait : Master of Celestial Menagerie

- Artefact : Drakescale Armour

- Mount Trait : Celestial Instincts

Aventis Firestrike Magister of Hammerhal*

- Spell : Flaming Weapon

Battleline
5 x Vindictors*
2 x Concussors*
2 x Concussors*

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment

Total: 1995 / 2000
Wounds: 64
Drops: 3

[Maturin]

54 minutes ago, Kodos der Henker said:

Any chance the Heraldor is going to change?

And as I guess not, would it be acceptable to be played as Vexillor if I put a Banner on his back?

Just take a picture of the apotheosis banner, print it, stick it on a pole, convert a little bit. You've got a brand new and unique Vexillor ^^

[Yondaime]

4 hours ago, Balthasar said:

I tried a list and I'm having a hard time figuring out if it's viable, strong, or just bad. The goal is to have 2 spells at +4 and 2 spells at +1 thanks to the stardrake boost and to make the most of the "Master of Celestial Menagerie" to make the 3 heroes very hard to kill.

  Hide contents

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals

- Army type : Stormkeep
- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar
- Holy Command : Call for Aid
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders

Krondys

- Spell : Celestial Blades

Lord-Celestant on Stardrake
- General

- Command Trait : Master of Celestial Menagerie

- Artefact : Drakescale Armour

- Mount Trait : Celestial Instincts

Aventis Firestrike Magister of Hammerhal*

- Spell : Flaming Weapon

Battleline
5 x Vindictors*
2 x Concussors*
2 x Concussors*

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment

Total: 1995 / 2000
Wounds: 64
Drops: 3

Aventis cant take flaming weapons mate

[Requizen]

While I generally don't care for named characters, Gardus seems almost too good for any deathball/castle build. Even if you're not using his charge ability or combat prowess, a 5+ Ward bubble is so insane. I'm considering running him with a Doubletap Longstrike build just to give them another layer of protection. 

Thinking a bit:

Stormcast - Stormkeep, Hallowed Knights, Thunderbolt Volley
Battle Regiment (all, one drop) or Warlord + Redemption Brotherhood (5 Drop, +1 CP/Holy Order for Call For Aid)

LAoTauralon - General, Menagerie, Amulet of Destiny (or Mirrorshield), whatever spell
Yndrasta
Gardus

Liberators x5
Vindictors x10
Sequitors x10

Longstrikes x6
Steelheart's Champions

2000/2000

So, if you deploy in a block, you get 5+ ward on everything. Cycle of the Storm + Yndrasta keeps things alive more than they should. Tauralon is making the Longstrikes 2+ to hit in all Shooting Phases until he moves out. Vindictors and Sequitors aren't even bad combat units, especially on the Saintly Assault turn. All your non-Longstrike units are Redeemers in a Stormkeep, so you're pretty good at holding objectives, and if you go Warlord Battalion with Call For Aid, you can bring back one of the Liberator units. And once the Longstrikes did enough damage and you're ready to move out, Yndrasta and the Tauralon are fast and can hit pretty hard.

Seems... not awful?

[CommissarRotke]

14 minutes ago, Requizen said:

While I generally don't care for named characters, Gardus seems almost too good for any deathball/castle build. Even if you're not using his charge ability or combat prowess, a 5+ Ward bubble is so insane. I'm considering running him with a Doubletap Longstrike build just to give them another layer of protection. 

Thinking a bit:

Stormcast - Stormkeep, Hallowed Knights, Thunderbolt Volley
Battle Regiment (all, one drop) or Warlord + Redemption Brotherhood (5 Drop, +1 CP/Holy Order for Call For Aid)

LAoTauralon - General, Menagerie, Amulet of Destiny (or Mirrorshield), whatever spell
Yndrasta
Gardus

Liberators x5
Vindictors x10
Sequitors x10

Longstrikes x6
Steelheart's Champions

2000/2000

So, if you deploy in a block, you get 5+ ward on everything. Cycle of the Storm + Yndrasta keeps things alive more than they should. Tauralon is making the Longstrikes 2+ to hit in all Shooting Phases until he moves out. Vindictors and Sequitors aren't even bad combat units, especially on the Saintly Assault turn. All your non-Longstrike units are Redeemers in a Stormkeep, so you're pretty good at holding objectives, and if you go Warlord Battalion with Call For Aid, you can bring back one of the Liberator units. And once the Longstrikes did enough damage and you're ready to move out, Yndrasta and the Tauralon are fast and can hit pretty hard.

Seems... not awful?

I do like that you've taken one of each melee battleline, with Steelheart just for kicks. Would be interested to see how this played out for sure

[PJetski]

16 minutes ago, Requizen said:

While I generally don't care for named characters, Gardus seems almost too good for any deathball/castle build. Even if you're not using his charge ability or combat prowess, a 5+ Ward bubble is so insane. I'm considering running him with a Doubletap Longstrike build just to give them another layer of protection. 

Thinking a bit:

Stormcast - Stormkeep, Hallowed Knights, Thunderbolt Volley
Battle Regiment (all, one drop) or Warlord + Redemption Brotherhood (5 Drop, +1 CP/Holy Order for Call For Aid)

LAoTauralon - General, Menagerie, Amulet of Destiny (or Mirrorshield), whatever spell
Yndrasta
Gardus

Liberators x5
Vindictors x10
Sequitors x10

Longstrikes x6
Steelheart's Champions

2000/2000

So, if you deploy in a block, you get 5+ ward on everything. Cycle of the Storm + Yndrasta keeps things alive more than they should. Tauralon is making the Longstrikes 2+ to hit in all Shooting Phases until he moves out. Vindictors and Sequitors aren't even bad combat units, especially on the Saintly Assault turn. All your non-Longstrike units are Redeemers in a Stormkeep, so you're pretty good at holding objectives, and if you go Warlord Battalion with Call For Aid, you can bring back one of the Liberator units. And once the Longstrikes did enough damage and you're ready to move out, Yndrasta and the Tauralon are fast and can hit pretty hard.

Seems... not awful?

You're really close to getting to the Hallowstrike list I posted earlier! Notes:

• Saintly Assault only gives bonus attacks to Hero units
• You have created a durable castle but you lack mobility and a melee hammer to riposte. I would definitely run a Relictor for Translocation to contest objectives
• Yndrasta sadly isn't worth her points, even in this optimal castle setup
• Sequitors aren't a proper hammer unit, even in a Stormkeep Hallowed Knights list. You want something like Annihilators, Retributors, or Protectors. 
• Try to squeeze in an Incantor to help protect Raptors

[Requizen]

8 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:

I do like that you've taken one of each melee battleline, with Steelheart just for kicks. Would be interested to see how this played out for sure

To be fair, you could swap the Sequitors for Vindictors and get enough points to turn Steelhearts into regular Liberators, but I though it would be fun and the points worked out.

1 minute ago, PJetski said:

You're really close to getting to the Hallowstrike list I posted earlier! Notes:

• Saintly Assault only gives bonus attacks to Hero units
• You have created a durable castle but you lack mobility and a melee hammer to riposte. I would definitely run a Relictor for Translocation to contest objectives
• Yndrasta sadly isn't worth her points, even in this optimal castle setup
• Sequitors aren't a proper hammer unit, even in a Stormkeep Hallowed Knights list. You want something like Annihilators, Retributors, or Protectors. 
• Try to squeeze in an Incantor to help protect Raptors

Good shout on the Saintly Assault, though the charge rerolls still work for everyone.

I think you could easily swap Yndrasta for Relictor/Incantor and wiggle some of the Redeemer units around to get 10x Protectors in. Probably a reasonable solution for getting a good Hammer in and more overall utility. Then probably use Warlord to get Mirrorshield on one of the Foot Heroes if you expect the meta to be filthy with shooting.

But I disagree that she's not worth her points - ignoring Battleshock, bringing back units, and then being a fast, reasonably damaging hero isn't bad. She's not amazing at either being a support or a true hammer, but she splits the difference pretty nicely imo. I'd at least like to try her out, haven't even gotten a single game since Dominion 😫

[Sleepa]

2 minutes ago, Requizen said:

But I disagree that she's not worth her points - ignoring Battleshock, bringing back units, and then being a fast, reasonably damaging hero isn't bad. She's not amazing at either being a support or a true hammer, but she splits the difference pretty nicely imo. I'd at least like to try her out, haven't even gotten a single game since Dominion 😫

I was originally super big on Yndrasta, and then found myself disappointed with her output, but I've played her a bit since then, and now I've had some success using her as a tank to support my hammer units, like Annihilators or Retributors. She's great at flying deep and charging into enemy line then just NOT dying. She's not likely to do more than about 6 damage per turn, but my opponent's have been unable to ignore her, and bringing back 1-2 paladins from nearby engagements has been backbreaking in a couple of my games.

[Requizen]

7 minutes ago, Sleepa said:

I was originally super big on Yndrasta, and then found myself disappointed with her output, but I've played her a bit since then, and now I've had some success using her as a tank to support my hammer units, like Annihilators or Retributors. She's great at flying deep and charging into enemy line then just NOT dying. She's not likely to do more than about 6 damage per turn, but my opponent's have been unable to ignore her, and bringing back 1-2 paladins from nearby engagements has been backbreaking in a couple of my games.

Yeah, she definitely doesn't seem like she can strike out by herself and be a huge threat, but alongside a couple other hitters she seems pretty solid to add damage and support. Too bad there's no good speedy unit she can return models to, or at least one that's not awful (cough Prosecutors).

[PJetski]

Her 4+ Ward loses a lot of value if she is near Gardus, her damage is lackluster, and if she leaves the castle to contest objectives or try to finish off a weakened enemy then you will move out of revive range which is the main reason she is there. 

If she was 280 or even still 300 points like she was in Dominion I would consider using her over a Tauralon. As it stands, the Tauralon has a lot more utility (and MONSTER for Battle Tactics) and running both doesn't seem prudent.

I can see Yndrasta working if you run Knights Excelsior with 2x5 Retributors as part of your Battleline.

[jeanfluflu]

Yndrasta is like 5pts less than the prime who clearly fight in another category.

First you have the Rend 3 att, then the auto 12" charge each turn and the D3MW blast that can easily target hidden heroes and higly valuable targets.
It's a shame because you want to make her combo with paladins units but these builds will usually be slow and the prime compensate for that as he can operate in solo missions while you want yndrasta to stay with the crowd.

I agree, she's a little bit overpriced for what she does but again this is not something really damaging as it can change next season with a couple of points adjustments.

Edited September 16, 2021 by jeanfluflu