Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors

[Marcvs]

this is pretty disappointing concerning underperfoming units. Not touching vigliors, vanquishers, palladors, hunters, sequitors, and the like surely won't impact the competitiveness of the book, but in terms of diversity it seems like a missed opportunity

[Stormblood]

Neave is 110 but her generic counterpoint the Knight Zephyros remains 10 pts more.  I wouldnt care if I painted my guys gold.  I imagine im pretty much the only guy on the planet that wants to take her though (fluff reasons)

20 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

this is pretty disappointing concerning underperfoming units. Not touching vigliors, vanquishers, palladors, hunters, sequitors, and the like surely won't impact the competitiveness of the book, but in terms of diversity it seems like a missed opportunity

Sequitors are expensive but that 5+ ward in combat has been pretty incredible in some of my games.  the rest coulda switched though I agree.

Edited December 21, 2021 by Stormblood

[PJetski]

 

[NauticalSoup]

4 minutes ago, Stormblood said:

Sequitors are expensive but that 5+ ward in combat has been pretty incredible in some of my games.  the rest coulda switched though I agree.

Unfortunately the added durability is almost completely offset by the added cost, and the fact that they have a worse armour save than libs for some stupid reason.

They're in a really bad spot atm.

Kinda like nearly the entire book, but hey - at least the tourney players are happy they can keep their longstrikes.

[Doko]

Fulminator and raptor didnt get nerfs and big dragon didnt get buff,seems the dude balancing dont know math or dont watch tournament data

[Celestantpants]

I'm very happy to be wrong about war scroll changes to dragons and points nerfs to fulminators and longstrikes.  I said I'd happily admit I was wrong if those things didn't happen, so here it is:  I was wrong, and I'm glad I was wrong.  Good call to those of you who said it wouldn't happen. 

This update is honestly pretty great for Stormcast from a competitive stand point.  Expect to see Stormcast keep doing well at tournies.

[The World Tree]

1 hour ago, Celestantpants said:

I'm very happy to be wrong about war scroll changes to dragons and points nerfs to fulminators and longstrikes.  I said I'd happily admit I was wrong if those things didn't happen, so here it is:  I was wrong, and I'm glad I was wrong.  Good call to those of you who said it wouldn't happen. 

This update is honestly pretty great for Stormcast from a competitive stand point.  Expect to see Stormcast keep doing well at tournies.

Fair play to you for acknowledging this

[PrimeElectrid]

Can anyone recommend a magnet size for stormdrake stands?

[Squark]

Adding another magnetizaion question; Has anyone magnetized Judicators? How would you go about it, since they use different left arms for bows and crossbows, but there's not enough pauldrons to magnetize 20 left arms with weapons attached? I suppose I could try ordering spare pauldrons.

[JackStreicher]

18 hours ago, Doko said:

Fulminator and raptor didnt get nerfs and big dragon didnt get buff,seems the dude balancing dont know math or dont watch tournament data

Perhaps they didn't have enough data rofl

[PJetski]

The Stormkeep did a live show about the FAQ last night! We were in shock that somehow Stormcast managed to dodge further nerfs aside from the Stormdrake Guard.

 

[Squark]

I don't see Longstrikes as an issue, at least in a vacuum- Our dedicated ranged units actually have decent internal balance apart from the mess that is Hurricane Raptors and the bizarre points jump that the Ballista got. Longstrikes the most popular because of their comparitvely low cost and self-sufficiency, but they also have more bad matchups than the other options, and are made of tissue paper. The issue is Thunderbolt Volley, but at the same time that's also a symptom of certain DPS checks in the metagame.

 

The one place Longstrikes are a problem is due to a greater issue in AoS of haves and have-nots- If your opponent's army doesn't have access to passable ranged damage or a mobile unit that can bypass screens, Vanguard Raptors don't have to care about their weaknesses. But there's enough ranged combat in the game right now that at this point what GW needs to do is make sure every army has a way to interact with shooting/spell damage.

[AmonRa]

Normally a chaos player but looking into stormcasts. Gotta say, that is a lot of unit entries. Not looking for a GT winning list but any resources on what units are actually good?

[Nerdkingdan]

18 minutes ago, AmonRa said:

Normally a chaos player but looking into stormcasts. Gotta say, that is a lot of unit entries. Not looking for a GT winning list but any resources on what units are actually good?

One guys opinion, each type of unit has a best in slot.   Raptors are best ranged, fulminators are the best hammer,  annihilators with grand hammers are the best at dropping from the sky,  etc….    But it’s a lot of duplicates really, it isn’t as deep as roster as it looks.
 

Many of the warscrolls are repeats in what they are for but have a flaw, weaker raw stars etc….   Evocators on foot and paladins for example can sort of do what annihilators do but without the charge bonus, are just not really viable in that slot for competitive play.    I think it allows you to make a list of varied power level, sort of like a handicap to make the game more challenging.    Friend has a weak army or isn’t competitive use evocators on dracoline over fulminators.    If your going to play competitive you know what your list is, but if your having fun who cares.

I get the flaw in this as in why do the weaker unit?   Cause your playing for fun.

 

Point here is, play what you like, knowing you can increase the power level if you need to.   Me I’m doing all sacrosanct right now cause I’m not going to events, and I like ‘em.

Edited December 27, 2021 by Nerdkingdan

[feadair]

44 minutes ago, AmonRa said:

Normally a chaos player but looking into stormcasts. Gotta say, that is a lot of unit entries. Not looking for a GT winning list but any resources on what units are actually good?

http://thehonestwargamer.com/aos-stats-centre-state-of-the-meta/ allows you to look at the frequency of units played in tournament lists. It is on page 9. 

Stormkeep on youtube has posted unit reviews.

TL;DR: Liberators, Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows, Fulminators, and Lord-Relictor go to many lists. Stormdrake Guards & Knight-Draconis, and Annihilators with Grandhammers & Lord-Imperatant are new units well worth considering.

[feadair]

Views of this 2000 point list? (I had been planning a list with more Stormdrake Guards, but it turns out those minis are a nightmare to transport. Two I can magnetize and fit in my case, but more than that...) 

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
 - Stormhost: Knights Excelsior
 - Mortal Realm: Ghur
 - Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
 - Triumphs: Inspired

LEADERS
Knight-Incantor (125)*
- Spell: Celestial Blades

Lord-Imperatant (175)*

Lord-Relictor (145)*
- General
- Command Trait: High Priest
- Artefact: Mirrorshield
- Prayer: Translocation

UNITS
6 x Annihilators with Meteoric Grandhammers (480)*

5 x Liberators (115)*
- Heavens-wrought Weapon and Shield
- 1 x Grandweapons

5 x Liberators (115)*
- Heavens-wrought Weapon and Shield
- 1 x Grandweapons

2 x Stormdrake Guard (340)*
- Drakerider's Warblade

6 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (480)*

CORE BATTALIONS
*Battle Regiment
ADDITIONAL ENHANCEMENTS
Holy Command: Thunderbolt Volley

The entire force is a one-drop in one Battle Regiment. The army will normally try to go first.

The army has three threats – one shooting unit and two highly mobile melee hammers. This allows it to take the initiative and unsettle the enemy. The plan is to play aggressively.

Vanguard-Raptors provide a long-range (30”) threat that takes out key targets. In the first turn, it takes out a screen in the Hero phase and targets enemy archers in the shooting phase.

Lord-Relictor translocates the Vanguard-Raptors for better shooting. If they already have good targets, he can translocate the SDG who can then move and charge in Hero Phase (no Unleash).

Grandhammer Annihilators, together with Imperatant, drop within 7”, utilizing the hole in the screen the Raptors have punched. They charge the biggest enemy threat, with rerolls. They lack mobility, so they need to come down at a key point.

Stormdrake Guard constitute a powerful and fast hammer that can counter-charge or strike independently at a weak spot.

Knight-Incantor auto-unbinds anything scary and buffs the SDG.

Edited December 27, 2021 by feadair

[Erdemo86]

Anyone tried a unit of 4 stormdrakes with a Draconis? Is it competetive enough? Are the drakes worth there 340 points? Is it better to go with 2x2 or 1x4?

Edited December 27, 2021 by Erdemo86

[Squark]

20 hours ago, AmonRa said:

Normally a chaos player but looking into stormcasts. Gotta say, that is a lot of unit entries. Not looking for a GT winning list but any resources on what units are actually good?

Breaking Things Down by Unit Role (Using the American Letter grade system)

Melee Screen/Battleline: Liberators with Shields/Vindictors A, Sequitors C, Vanquishers F

Ranged Units: Judicators (both varieities)/Vanguard Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows A, Castigators B-, Celestar Ballista/Vigilors C, Vanguard-Raptors with Hurricane Crossbows F

Melee Hammer units: Annihilators with Meteoric Grandhammers, Fulminators A, Concussors/Protectors B, Retribuitors C, Evocators (mounted or unmounted), Desolators D-, Decimators F

Miscellaneous units: Stormstrike Chariots A, Aetherwings A, Tempestors A, Prosecutors B, Praetors B-, Annihilators with shields C, Vanguard-Hunters D, Gryph-Hounds D, Vanguard-Palladors D

Stormdrake Guard are in a weird place. They can certainly be potent, but they're also very hard to fit into your list (Hence their absence here).

As for the heroes... I'm reluctant to go through the truly staggering list we have. Instead, I'll just highlight the Stand-out units

-Knight-Incantor: The De Facto wizard. No special casting, but their dispel scroll is key for disrupting certain lists like Legion of the First Prince. Can be gotten cheaply if you can find a copy of the 2nd Edition Start Collecting Age of Sigmar Magazine.

-Lord-Arcanum on Tauralon/Aventis Firestrike: Deluxe Wizard. It's a monster, can cast and dispel, and hands out a +1 to hit pulse every time it moves. If you want to cast more spells without adding a whole new hero, the 40? point upgrade to Aventis Firestrike is worth it for Hammers of Sigmar

-Lord-Relictor: By far the best priest. Can very reliably use Stormcast prayers, all of which are excellent. You might even want a second. Unfortunately, only available in the Start Collecting: Thunderstrike Brotherhood box, which is otherwise awkward

-Lord-Imperatant: Specifically used to make Annihilator charges reliable. In that capacity, he's solid.

-Bastian Carlathos: Hammers of Sigmar specific. He's got a lot of nice tricks, but we need an FAQ to clarify a lot of what he does, unfortunately.

-Gardus Steelsoul: Has an excellent 5+ ward aura. Fantastic. The only downside is he's very squishy vs. ranged attacks.

-Knight-Judicator: shrug-worthy on his own, but he's had proven success when spammed.

-Lord-Castellant: Handing out an un-dispellable +1 to save each turn is excellent when used with Large blocks of Vindictors or Protectors.

-Celestant-Prime: Sometimes you just want a big hammer that can make a 12" charge, no randomness involved.

-

[Thugmullet]

Hello All,

I am a COS player for a few years, been buying Stormcast to go with them and just realised if I buy 2 sets of Vanguards Rapt with Aetherwings I can run a full stormcast army. Is this list do-able?

Celestant Prime               325
Knight Draconis.              300
Lord Relictor.                    145

2x Stormdrake Guard.     340
5x Vindicators.                 130
5x Vindicators.                 130

3x Aetherwings.                 65
3x Aetherwings.                 65
6x Vanguard Longstrike  480

Total 1980. 2 drops.  Celestial Vindicators.
Knight Draconis is General

A few questions.
Will Celestial Vindicators give all these units exploding 6s on the charge (one unit per turn max I understand)?
Is there a better subfaction for this army?
I'll make the Draconis hero a wizard. Is one wizard anough for a stormcast army?
Losing one set of Aetherwings to go one drop worth it?
If I did this what would I take instead?

Thanks in advance for any that answer.

Edited December 28, 2021 by Thugmullet

[Squark]

Taking a Knight-Draconis for only 2 stormdrake guard is going to be really underwhelming. I'd replace him with a 3rd batteline unit and use the 150+ points for something else.

 

As for your questions...

1) One unit per turn, but it can be any unit

2) Celestial Vindicators don't work well in an army without at least one good melee hammer (2x Stormdrake Guard is not actually that impressive in melee). I'd look at Hammers of Sigmar perhaps?

3) Plenty of stormcast lists run only 1 wizard. However, if anyone in your local metagame runs Legion of the 1st prince, you NEED a Knight-Incantor.

4) Aetherwings aren't bad, and I don't see a point in going 1-drop for your list.

 

My main concern is the lack of melee power in the list until Celestant Prime comes down. Stormdrake Guard are so expensive- I don't think they can fit in a list with Celestant Prime.

[Thugmullet]

5 minutes ago, Squark said:

Taking a Knight-Draconis for only 2 stormdrake guard is going to be really underwhelming. I'd replace him with a 3rd batteline unit and use the 150+ points for something else.

 

As for your questions...

1) One unit per turn, but it can be any unit

2) Celestial Vindicators don't work well in an army without at least one good melee hammer (2x Stormdrake Guard is not actually that impressive in melee). I'd look at Hammers of Sigmar perhaps?

3) Plenty of stormcast lists run only 1 wizard. However, if anyone in your local metagame runs Legion of the 1st prince, you NEED a Knight-Incantor.

4) Aetherwings aren't bad, and I don't see a point in going 1-drop for your list.

 

My main concern is the lack of melee power in the list until Celestant Prime comes down. Stormdrake Guard are so expensive- I don't think they can fit in a list with Celestant Prime.

Thank you reply. I'll have to run with this for moment as it's the models I have. Basically your saying it's low on offensive power and needs a proper hammer..Understood. I do have 2 fulminators as well but I suspect using them as a unit of 2 won't fix this. I'll play as is now and look to shift the Draconis out and replace him next month when I have the budget for some new minis. Appreciate the response.

[feadair]

10 hours ago, Erdemo86 said:

Anyone tried a unit of 4 stormdrakes with a Draconis? Is it competetive enough? Are the drakes worth there 340 points? Is it better to go with 2x2 or 1x4?

Yes, it is competitive. A list that you can find in my post history went 4-1 in a large tournament recently and only lost in the finals.

Given that Draconis can make ONE Stormdrake unit shoot in Hero Phase once per battle, I would try to go with 4. 
 

If you find a good way to transport a large number of Stormdrakes without breaking the models on the way to the tournament, please let the community know.

[PJetski]

On 12/26/2021 at 10:10 PM, AmonRa said:

Normally a chaos player but looking into stormcasts. Gotta say, that is a lot of unit entries. Not looking for a GT winning list but any resources on what units are actually good?

We did a pretty thorough breakdown on our podcast The Stormkeep when the book came out. If you've got 4.5 hours you should give it a watch

We later updated the tier list with the Errata/FAQ in October - planning on doing another quick update based on the December Battlescroll

Edited December 28, 2021 by PJetski

[peasant]

Hi! Im currently painting an unit of annihilators with meteoric hammers because I absolutely LOVE the minis. 

Is viable a list that has this core?

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals

- Stormhost: Knights Excelsior

- Grand Strategy:

- Triumphs:

Lord-Imperatant (175)

- Allies

3 x Annihilators with Meteoric Grandhammers (240)

3 x Annihilators with Meteoric Grandhammers (240)

3 x Annihilators with Meteoric Grandhammers (240)

 

Total: 895 / 2000

Reinforced Units: 0 / 4

Allies: 175 / 400

Wounds: 34

Drops: 4

 

What would you add?

Thanks in advance

[readercolin]

39 minutes ago, peasant said:

Hi! Im currently painting an unit of annihilators with meteoric hammers because I absolutely LOVE the minis. 

Is viable a list that has this core?

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Knights Excelsior

Lord-Imperatant (175)

3 x Annihilators with Meteoric Grandhammers (240)
3 x Annihilators with Meteoric Grandhammers (240)
3 x Annihilators with Meteoric Grandhammers (240)

Total: 895 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 175 / 400
Wounds: 34
Drops: 4

What would you add?

So if you want to run this as the core of your list, you can.  However, you are currently lacking 3 things.

1. Objective Holders.  You need something to sit on the ground and hold objectives for you, which is where something like squads of liberators, or maybe judicators come in.

2. Screen clearing.  Annihilators can do boatloads of damage if they get in.  However, if they get in and hit some chaff... they then don't have the mobility to move on and hit what needs their hammers.  Note, you also have issues with Unleash Hell shooting units that can punch through and kill an annihilator or two.

3. Mobility.  Once the annihilators come down, they are stuck there for the rest of the game.

Finally, you are restricted to only bring 1 squad of annihilators down at 7" per turn, and anything in the skies after turn 3 is dead.  This means that having 3 squads is forcing you to drop a squad per turn, or drop a squad at 9" instead of 7".  This doesn't mean you can't do that, but it does mean that you might want to consider merging 2 of those squads into a single squad of 6.  Or maybe even get another 3 annihilators and run 2 squads of 6.

As for the rest of the army, the first thing that comes to mind is a mixture of objective control and screen clearing.  This can be a squad of vanguard raptors with longstrikes, though that is going to keep your army very fragile.  Or, you can run squads of Judicators with Skybolt Bows.  Alternatively, you can run vanguard raptors + liberators to have separate mixes for clearing and for objective holding.  Finally, the easiest answer for mobility is a Lord-Relictor with Translocate.

This would put the final army like this:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Knights Excelsior
Lord-Imperatant (175)
Lord-Relictor (145)
Knight-Incantor (125)
3 x Annihilators with Meteoric Grandhammers (240)
3 x Annihilators with Meteoric Grandhammers (240)
3 x Annihilators with Meteoric Grandhammers (240)
5 x Liberators (115)
5 x Liberators (115)
5 x Liberators (115)
6 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (480)
- Reinforced x 1

Total: 1990 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 87
Drops: 10

This list I would maintain the high drops, grab a hunters battalion for the annihilators, and stick the hero's and raptors into a warlord battalion so you can get an extra enhancement (either extra artefact, or take thunderbolt volley and unleash thy hatred).

Or, if you want a more condensed list that can fit easily into a one drop:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Knights Excelsior
Lord-Imperatant (175)
Lord-Relictor (145)
6 x Annihilators with Meteoric Grandhammers (480)
- Reinforced x 1
6 x Annihilators with Meteoric Grandhammers (480)
- Reinforced x 1
15 x Judicators with Skybolt Bows (600)
- Reinforced x 2
5 x Liberators (115)

Total: 1995 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 4 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 89
Drops: 6

As mentioned, this can easily fit into a battle regiment, and the reinforced grandhammers can punch through even a megagargant in a turn.  You would have to choose between unleash thy hatred and thunderbolt volley though.  An alternative for this is breaking up the judicators into smaller units that can sit on objectives better, and maybe getting a knight-incantor in the mix for the auto-unbind.  Doing that though would mean that thunderbolt volley looks a lot worse, and unleash thy hatred is probably the best as a holy command.

Note here that both cases basically boils down to grabbing a shooting unit and a relictor.  If you would rather run tempestors rather than judicators/vanguard raptors - go for it.  Castigators?  Sure, why not.  Crossbow judicators?  Go for it.  Ballista's... I supposed they work.  As for non-shooting, liberators are nice because they are cheap, but if you want to run vindictors, you can do that.  But you just need something that can sit on objectives while your annihilators go on the offense.