Thugmullet

Iv been putting the artifact on the lance actually. It's 3+ 3+ - 3 rend and 4 damage on the charge. With the order for an extra attack it's 5 attacks. All goes to plan he's also following strait on from the strike first dragon on same unit. It's a lot of fire-power. Drops off if he's not on the charge but I just gotta trust I can get the charge off first and they should kill whatever they touch. There best buddies my griffon and dragon.

Hi mate. Good feedback Ty. I'm running the battalion for the extra spells. Iv got the hammer for the griffin for the damage and rend. I'm not super keen for blizzard but iv got a tough local meta. I'm at 3 drops best I can do no matter what. In my meta if you don't go 2 drops you might as well go 6, Iv got anough screens to go second no probs and can get on points first turn with anough chaff to form a double line against ogres or IJ etc if they go the double and take first. Army functions well in a counter strike situation as well. so it's just a why not thing. I'm swapping out spells to try them out in game as I go but blizzard keeps people on there toes. I take it out for friendly games but. Hurricanum is great. It's one of my big loves with COS. My issue is to take it I'll be dropping the Steamtank or one of the monsters. And I want both. Im basically running the griffin and dragon as one monster so don't want to split them up. Don't want to drop the stank as it's doing what I would traditionally use the frost pheonix for. 100% I miss it. But I'm siding with the tank and going without the command point. For now at least. Iv only played 1 game with lethis. Iv been using mysthavn.. The hero move on monsters etc is top shelf. Might go back if lethis doesn't help much.. Prob with lethis is it's strong, but only if your rolling 4+ on the day. We'll see how it plays out. 😊Ii

Threads a little slow. Posting up to get the ball rolling. I was thinking we have had a few months now to refine our lists. How's everyone finding things? Iv been refining my list as time goes on and finally starting to get some traction on a list I like, suits my play style and has an ok chance of winning with me as pilot (I'm an average player). Iv moved away from the fusiliers now. Iv decided I don't like the points sink and I personally don't play castle lists very well anyway, which is what the fusiliers were leading me towards. My main concerns with the lists iv been running are 1) I'm finding COS very command point heavy. I'm always running short of what I need. 2) limited healing for heroes 3) limited mortal wound output for use against warded targets. 4)theres so much offensive output in the game now, combined with high movement, lots of mortal wounds and lots of recursion any big blocks of infantry I'm taking are either dying before they can get in or are trading against units that come back. 5) hard to get battletactics. So here's my attempt to work around some of this. HEROES : Freeguild General on Griffin (priest) mortal w prayer Dreadlord on Blackdragon Steamtank with commander (priest) heal prayer Cavilier commander (priest) command point prayer Sorceress on foot Battlemage BATTLELINE: 3x dreadspears MSU Freeguild caviliers OTHER: Quester soulsworn (allies) 2x scrougerunner chariot. City is Lethis. 5 drops. 3 battalions. Mixed bag of an army but offers a large toolkit. . 6 elf units to help with the book BT for charging 3 elf units in a turn. . 7 mounted units to help with BT for taking point with mounted units only. Chariots added to help with souround and destroy BT and extra layer of chaff. Count as mounted. The dreadspears are in MSU and are not the 4+ ward elves because they effectively do the same job as the large blocks anyway and still allow the +2 cast for the sorcy girl. Saving 210 points by not running a block of 20 4+ ward guys. Both foot heroes are blizzard wizards. Battlemage has spell for making Stank 2+ unrendable save. Sorceress has Tenebreal blades for black dragon. Black dragon and the griffin are to operate as battle buddies. The dragon pops his command for strike first and both mosters go in together. Both are held back behind the MSU chaff for a counter strike my next turn and the griffin has countercharge so that the black dragon can always countercharge AND get strike first in apponant turn. Stank to operate as a tarpit. Quester soulswarm because they have the teleport, high wounds, 3+ save and count as 18 on objectives in enemy and neutral zones.. They can hit hard. Love this unit. Too powerful for your apponant to ignore. And they have to protect there rear with assets powerful anough to counter them at least until they use that teleport. The cavaliers hero is there for strike first. Combined with the dragon strike first this is very strong. It allows the dragon, griffin, cavaliers and cavalier hero all to get there attacks in before the apponant can activate anything at all. Strong but also requires a bit of luck and planning, got it off once so far only but it minced through 40+ wounds in 1 turn, wiped the middle of the table and won the game. Lethis picked as it offers an additional heal the steam tank wants, Removal of wards to counter our lack of MWs And an additional command point on a 5+ which if it goes off is very needed. Mortal wounds on 6 for the army. Got some more games coming up soon, we'll see how the lists goes against some different armies. It's going to be very weak against some apponants but I'm hoping in these match ups it's got the legs to keep getting BTs over 5 rounds and at least compete on points. Hope you all don't mind the novel here, I'm bored and wanted to start the convo up a bit. What armies have you all been playing as?

Played my first game last night with the fusiliers without blazing weapons mortals. Used a unit of 20. Played against Nurgle. Tough match up. I'll play them again, one games not anough but my initial takeaway is that there not worth there points anymore. Here's my logic. They really want 2 heroes in surport. You need one order for movement.. If you don't, then there not getting there fortified position and so there not getting there 2 shots. But you really also want the second hero to have counterfire ready to go. Counterfire is a very strong deterant for enemy shooting, I think it's strong and it's real protection for the other units around them. They also need a screen. So now we're up to 600+ points invested in 40 shots 4+ 4+ - 1 1 damage. But there actually more expensive than this. Because you absolutily need the comand trait for +1 +1..the points investment is just too big without it. That means your general has to be one of those 2 little heroes. That's an opurtunity cost of not being able to use another command trait on something else. That's a pretty easily killed general, You also really need to go Greywater because this unit really needs to do something every turn with its cost. So that's an extra command point every turn. And that's another opurtunity cost there, a big one actuly. I ran mysthavn last night. The abiility to move out of phase is strong. Espiesially for getting your hammers into position with out triggering redoply etc.. Great stuff. The result but, I was made to go second (I'm 2 drops) and I played that game with 1 command point per turn because one had to go to that shooting unit every time it shoots. I was starved the whole game. Hammers had to go in without all out attack, defences had to be done without all out defence, units with low bravery had to take rolls on runming away, run rolls that had to get me somewhere important had to be rolled. Just starved for points in every turn of every battleround. Now, if that fusiliers unit did those extra mortals, it might be worth it because there roll is removing or at least profiling an important enemy unit per turn. They should be scary. But with out the mortals. Bloody pathetic. - 1 rend.. Who cares, every target just all out defenced. I don't think the unit did more than 6 points of damage in any turn. Yes it was nurgle, yes they have wards. But that's my point, this is a 600 point unit. It should be killing or profiling monsters at this cost. It was also one of the only sources of mortals in the army. This unit could not even kill an 8 wound, 200 point character with a 4+ save and 5+ ward. It did 6 wounds. Sorry about the long rant, I admit I'm salty about this. But I just don't understand why GW comes down on cities like this I really don't. Iv played them from day 1 of there first book. Iv played them a lot. I'm left with an army of 1 wound, low bravery, no mortal wound protected no mortal wound producing units that will find a hard counter (more than 1 for sure) in every tourniment played. I actually preferred the old book rules. We don't even have co alition units now to plug the gaps. There's some other build options, I can see that, but there's really no other sources of reliable mortals that can put out to the spot I want them when I want them. I'm not interested in running 10 chariots or 6 Steamtank or these types of spam lists. There's nothing wrong with them, but I just dropped hundreds of dollars on new units already. I'm not spending hundreds more to have them change a warscroll and end up with 5+ of the same unit gathering dust in the cupboard. I think cities are going to be in a rough spot competitively going forwards. Again, thanks for listening to this rant. I just gotta get the salt out. I feel better all ready. I know cities will be a fun army to play as usual, and fun to play against as well. I'm just disapointed, I thought for the first time we might have a shot of having a truly competitive book with multiple builds.. But I just suspect now we're back to we're we were.. Bottom middle. And we're also going to be one of the last books for AOS 4..power creep will not be fun for us.

There great in 10. But I think we have better options for bigger blocks for the cost. As Neil H said but.. Great screening unit. Great unit in 10

For 170 points I'd take a battlemage. Add the 6" range modifier from warscroll and go the spell that shuts down commands received by that unit. IF you get that spell off on a unit that your shooting with fusiliers there not auto passing battleshock that phase. That can be big. Doesn't work out you still got mystic shield, an extra order and an extra unbind. The 60 points you can go on extra spell and maybe still come in under 2000 for the triumph.

14 wounds on a 3+ with 5+ ward. Monster. 28 damage on at least rend 2 Run and charge, retreat and charge. Flying. 12 inch move. For 360 points. That's incredible for Sylvaneth. I don't think there's an army that couldn't use this guy. He's going in all my lists.

I recently ran this unit at a 5 game event with my Sylvaneth list. They were excellent for there price and did a good job. Outside of there teleport once per game they were a bit slow however. If not running Sylvaneth I would probably be more inclined to run 2 units of Tree Revs instead for the points. They were fine defense wise but there - 1 rend meant they were never really doing much damage against anything that mattered. At least with the tree revs you got some extra cheap screens and it makes getting 2 of your 5 BTs a lot easier. Quick edit. They are VERY cool looking unit. Like in my opinion Def one of the best looking SCE units easy.

This is logical sir and is an attitude with out fault.

I think the fusiliers are costed for there potential in large units and the buffs they can take. Call it GW lack of being able to balance this type of unit or laziness or whatever but it puts fusiliers in a funny spot. They are expensive. Whether that's a balanced cost depends on what role you want them to play in your army. For a casual game, maybe with MSU running around then on a per unit cost.. There probably over costed.. But casually maybe fun. Couple wounds here, couple there, lose a few, who cares. But.. Put 30 of them in a comp list, build your army around it a buff the ****** out of them and there playing an army role and doing stuff the rest of your army can't do. Buffed (including orders) your looking at 30' range, 60 shots on 3+,3+ at 1 rend and doing MW on 6. That's an average 10 mortals at 30' and prob another 10 wounds after saves are rolled. Couple of battalions and it's in a 2 drop list. 1 if you go small on the heroes. So these guys are potentially removing key enemy linchpin units from the game turn 1. That's there army roll. And that's potential role is what you are paying for in points costs and the base 4+ 4+ Big investment, say 600 points. Your going to come up short army wise somewhere else, your going to have to build around this, it's not a balanced swiss army knife build. But played well there going to be game winners I think.

I'm not a GW hater or anything like that, I think there just another company making money, and I really like there products. I say this to set the tone for when I say : The best thing you can do in this hobby to enjoy it the most in my opinion is not play at official GW stores. They see those tables as an opurtunity to capture an audience for as long as possible to sell more product. Those tables are not there for you, there there for GW. This is fair anough, they spend the wages, time and money to set them up, but it should be acknowledged. I know in some places it is hard to find groups, but if you can you should try finding a local group not associated with any sales store. No one in these groups would give an F about how you paint your minis, I'd be surprised if they weren't surportive in fact. GW don't want you to use different colour schemes because that way you spend more to try different factions. They did this with space marines. It's just part and parcel of GW ******. You paint your army any damm way you like mate. And if people don't like it. F em. I sure am not painting a single faction colour. I'll be doing my own colour scheme. One of the coolest things with cities is that you can be a different army everytime you play. I don't want to be locked into one faction As a quick edit. I think your idea is very good. You can simply say lore wise that for whatever reason different cities have contributed a few units each to field an army because neither one had the men spare to send a full army themselves. That works for me. I may pinch this idea myself. 👍😁

I suspect the models that were removed were removed less because of anything to do with Cities and more to do with them being part of the Old World release armies. I don't think GW wants too much cross over between the two. So I would think that dwarfs and dark elfs would be removed in the next book from COS to allow them to go to Old World and I think the Griffin stayed prob because ol King Karl is dead in the new story and they'll get a new kit to replace him. Don't know of course, just a thought.

Double post. Sorry all. . Can admin remove please?

I think Cavaliers are the stand out in the new book. On paper there a great unit. And well pointed for there warscroll. My concern is what are they going to do in the game that makes me want to bring them. They have the tools to work well (good synergy with there mounted hero), good movement and excellent charge bonuses and they will hit better than say dragons for similar points. But what is there army role? Alpha strike? Sure they can do this, but they don't fly and they deliver there mortals after combat, not after charge, so that alpha is just going to run into a cheap screen I think. Are they a hammer? Sure. But now I'm paying 1/4 of my army (360 + 120 hero) to have fast cavalry that needs to hang back behind a screen (more points) so there ready for a counter charge.. I can use cheaper, harder hitting units for that. And there no anvil at this cost for 20 wounds, even on a 3+..theres two much mw output from good armies around now for them to be used in that role for there cost (Varius, give me back my Elves 😂) So tldr.. I think there a sign of my concerns for COS with the new book. I think the problem COS had wasn't in points or units. We had good units at good points cost that worked very well in synergy with other units. I think what we lacked was army wide tools that allowed us to compete with the army wide tools the newer books have. We still have no teleports, so we can't move a unit accross the table to reposition as the battle unfolds.. Those shooters out of range now in the bottom left quater when the actions now in the top right. Too bad, march em up there at 5' a turn. See you in turn 5 buddy 😂 We have no flying that counts and what units that can fly are sub 300 point monsters. They will just melt if they have to take on a Vampire lord for instance, but who else can do it? The cavaliers, they don't fly but that Vampire does, so there not getting a charge in there, that Vampire lord is nice n safe behind his screen. Against an alpha, there's a real chance of pinning this army for the first few turns. Basically, we're fast but without flying or teleports the army wide mobity is low and the army will be slow to react to changes in the battle. And pinning!! There's no bonuses for unbinds Anymore, so in this meta that's not great. Shooting looks ok. But to get it working it'll need point investment. And now I'm just playing a shooting army in a game where movement is king. It'll go good against some armies but pretty much nowhere against others like Nurgle or the water elf idiots. Spells are excellent that's for sure. But we also lost our cast bonuses, and again that's in a meta of spells when there's a lot of armies out there with buffs to u binds now.. So that's not going to be reliable. I have other concerns but I'll stop there, this is too long as is. I also want to say that I'm aware I Havnt played it yet. I'm open to being completely wrong and there could just be a new style of play I Havnt rapped my head around yet and so I can't see what the army style will be. I hope this is the case. The new book will Def be better than the old. No doubt here, it I think will also be a fun book to play and play against. I'm happy with what theve done. But from a perspective of tourniment play, I don't think there addressed the problems that made the old book non competitive in this environment. It's mid level tourniment book, 2/3 or 3/2 type of thing. There's just armies out there we won't have the tools to beat consistently. I do hope I'm cometely wrong and please excuse the novel.

Without there ability to drop in and do mortals and not be on the board to get shot I think Annihilators would be over costed for that use. I think Fulminators would not offer the wounds for staying power for what you want to do and really there best used on the offence. I think quester soulstorm would be a good unit for this. About the same cost or cheaper but with 18 wounds on a 3+, good strike potential whether they charge or get charged and you get a warscroll teleport, which is an extra tool not found in cities which gives you the ability to quickly orient them from defensive to offensive latter in the game. They can hang around the back, cover back board and then later when not needed for that they can transition to anywhere else on the board and they will count as 18 on an objective (wholly outside you zone), and still have some good punch. You also get the bonus of the apponant having to worry about and cover for this unit until you use that teleport. Really suitable unit for this purpose I think.

Battletactics are hard!! I'm going to start running the vesperal gem so we got one marked off. Plus strike and fade that's at least two. Doing that and keeping 2 drops with Durthu however is a problem. I think maybe Spiterider Lancers are now looking to be worth running at under 400 points as re-enforced unit. The new coherency rules are a bonus here as well. At 440points for a 6 man I think Kurnoth swords are worth a look too, but they will really require getting the new realm spell off consistently for extra rend to make them as reliable as the scythes to be my main hammer. That's my initial impressions. More games needed to really see how it pans out. So far I'm pretty happy, looks like positive changes for us.

Yep. Verdant Blessing is just a normal spell. No worries there.

Entmans advise is good. Cities is in an unknown place right now. We don't know when the new rules are out, we don't know what units are being cut but we do know it's going to be a complete revamp. So spending big cash and time right now is a risk. Personally I'd prob just finish that pile of shame and play what you got. Maybe pick up a unit here or there if it becomes obvious you want it after playing a bit. What you have is very playable. You got a hurri, a good monster, plenty of chaff and some shooting units that can go OK if you play them OK. Those demigriff knights go pretty good and you've got plenty of them to use. I'd also look into maybe getting a few Stormcast units if you do want to expand. COS can make good use of stormcast as they will still use your COS army rules if you play them and worst case after the army shake up you should still get good play from them. Some Fulminators, Stormdrake Guard or Celestant Prime will all add good units to your army at not much risk. But basically what you have is fine. It's not meta and you won't be carving up tables but you'll go alright, win some games and Learne the rules while you decide what works for you and doesn't.

Thanks mate. I did not see that at all. Makes sense now.

Can you explain this please. I'm not trying to be a pain but I don't understand how you complete this BT without setting up the unit with its teleport. It seems pretty watertight with the rules. How does a normal move qualify. Not sure what I'm missing here. Understand I want you to be correct here.. I just don't see it.

There's really not a lot I think. Not hitty guys anyway. I think Knight Azyros might be OK.. I also have been eyeing off the Akhelion King. Both have speed to play with and some good damage for there size.. They might function ok for a small hero not in the new battalions.. That can get themselves to places on the table to get those new battletactics done. We'll have to see what the compete rules and bonuses are first but I think. The Akhelion king is prob a bit pricey and won't take artifacts (if there any good anyway) so he's prob not a good choice but other than those 2 I can't see much that pops out as really good. Maybe also an assassin or 2 as they are at least cheap and can deepstrike in with some shadow warriors or the like... I'm sure more will become obvious with time when we start to get a better feel for what these small heroes actual job on the table will be. And surely there's some stormcast heroes that will be OK.

Yeah good move. Everyone knows you can't trust elves. 😊

I'll normally run a unit of 2 Stormdrake Guard AND a frost pheonix in my lists. I'll use the Frostie as a tank. His speed is great to get to the apponant hammers before they go off on me first and if he can tank 500+ points for a turn or two... great. That's one less hammer to worry about while I manouver the rest of my army around. With arcane tome and the heal spell (or flaming weapons if you want less durability but more punch) he's a good chance of keeping his 3+/4+ save/ward regardless of rend he's facing. I'd use the Knight Draconas instead but if I was looking for a damage dealer hero however. Dragons I use as a fast light hammer. Great for pinching objectives from weaker units and there speed is great in letting them get to another spot to surport attacks. Free re roll with charge is also pretty good now we've lost strike and melt away to move closer. No command point needed, which is great. Iv tried Strike and Melt away on the new Gosimid archers. It goes OK with them. You can drop them in and then use it to spread them out and cover some extra ground or get them inboard away from there 6' drop in. It's nothing ka boom... But does ok when needed. Whether it's worth a command point and a hero to drop within 18inches but.. Mmm IDK. Tree revs are highly recommended. I'll have them in every army I do if I can spare the points... Even as allies with out army buffs. These guys can get the points for capturing scenery pretty much in whichever turn you want, you can reposition them as chaff anywhere you want to plug gaps in an emergency and they are great for getting the points for having two units in apponant zone as you really only have to get one unit there and then pop these guys in. There so good for there points. They won't kill much, but they can be worth 4 victory points in a game, for there cost.. Thats gold. Like others have said with them, I'm started looking at Tempest Eye lately to see if it has anything more to offer. I'm a little addicted to the 1 point heal in hero phase and great spell lore from this city however.

Been a bit quiet here. Anyone had a game lately and got a battle report they can post up? Or something of the like. Any played experiences of how the new GV units have affected Cities?

Thank you. I thought so but just wanted to hear it from someone else as I really wanted that other profile lol. Must say but, for 840 points she really should be rend 3 on those beetle melee attacks if she can only do 20 points of damage BEFORE saves. It's a bit small for a God profile. Having said that she still looks good and usable for what she can do.