Rumours on low Dominion sales - discussion

[Skreech Verminking]

10 hours ago, Baron Klatz said:

Iconic army that scream "Age of Sigmar

I’m not sure I would call it iconic.

it is true that they are at least currently and have been before the golden shiny boys of sigmar, but every time I have a look at their range, the first thing I’m seeing are a remake of the iconic space marine.

 

Edit: if there was something iconic about the stormcast, that has been in the game for many years as an icon, It would be the oversized warhammer these guys carry.

But it definitely ain’t the stormy boys

Edited October 31, 2021 by Skreech Verminking

[Gaz Taylor]

45 minutes ago, Bosskelot said:

With Dominion if it has sold even half of Indomitus that's honestly really, really impressive considering the relative size of the games. From an objective point of view, that's pretty good. But considering this was meant to be a limited-run box and they produced potentially more of it than they did Indomitus, how pleased will the GW suits really be with its performance? This was not meant to still be on sale 4 months later with a 30% discount off on the webstore. They clearly also did not want it still taking up shelf space by the time the starter sets were coming out.

Yeah I think it’s this. I also don’t think AOS fans were less fanatical when it came to the special edition box because they either just wanted to collect their faction or had seen (or experienced) what happened with the 40K set.

Personally for me, I have a £25 gift voucher burning a hole in my pocket and this set is now really tempting!

[JackStreicher]

13 hours ago, ArkanautDadmiral said:

Second time I’ve seen you make this ‘he destroys leftover stock comment’. Can you please explain this more? How are they destroying it? What stock are they destroying?

I did not explain more about it because it has been this way for years. Boxes that are being put out of the shelf are sent back for destruction. The same goes for books etc. I didn’t know this was news to anyone?

[JackStreicher]

13 hours ago, Enoby said:

This is a guess and someone else will likely be able to provide a better answer, but I imagine they keep the plastic and put them into single boxes to sell at full price, recycle the paper/cardboard, and trash anything that can't be reused or recycled.

It is not a guess and they don’t. Simply destroying the products is way cheaper than:

1. Unpacking the product

2. sorting the sprues

 3. Repackaging while having to pay for the storage

They send products back and destroy / throw them into the bin since producing new models is cheaper than repackaging.

Older and out of date books are obviously destroyed 

How I know this? Just talk to to employees across several countries, it’s not a secret.

The day all the stock of Settra the Imperishable perished.

 

I don’t get why you are shocked, the whole online business operates this way apart from very small companies. Once a company produces in masses the cost of storage are higher than the production costs of the product.

 

Edited October 31, 2021 by JackStreicher
Added more Info

[EccentricCircle]

I once asked my local store manager about the recyclbility of used sprues, and was told that internally gw collect them up to melt down an recycle. Now je may have been wrong, but he certainly seemed to think the shops sent waste sprues back to the factory. 

 

I'm less clear on whether we can put waste sprues in the plastic recycling. It's polystyrene right? So maybe?

[ArkanautDadmiral]

48 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

It is not a guess and they don’t. Simply destroying the products is way cheaper than:

1. Unpacking the product

2. sorting the sprues

 3. Repackaging while having to pay for the storage

They send products back and destroy / throw them into the bin since producing new models is cheaper than repackaging.

Older and out of date books are obviously destroyed 

How I know this? Just talk to to employees across several countries, it’s not a secret.

The day all the stock of Settra the Imperishable perished.

 

I don’t get why you are shocked, the whole online business operates this way apart from very small companies. Once a company produces in masses the cost of storage are higher than the production costs of the product.

 

Because in all my working life I’ve not experienced the company throwing perfectly good non perishable stock in the bin.

old books can be recycled, why would they be destroyed?

Do you know what’s classed as leftover stock? How old does it need to be? You’ve mentioned it in relation to dominion so when do you expect that to be destroyed?

Why wouldn’t they sell off at a discount, both to end user and wholesale? In anticipation of storage requirements? 
 

Be interesting to see how many other people here are aware of this considering you thought it was common knowledge.

Obviously I’ll speak to GW employees to find out more.

[ArkanautDadmiral]

19 minutes ago, EccentricCircle said:

I once asked my local store manager about the recyclbility of used sprues, and was told that internally gw collect them up to melt down an recycle. Now je may have been wrong, but he certainly seemed to think the shops sent waste sprues back to the factory. 

 

I'm less clear on whether we can put waste sprues in the plastic recycling. It's polystyrene right? So maybe?

It’s not recyclable unfortunately.

There are businesses that repurpose non recyclable materials into other forms though. One near me turns plastics into furniture, construction area barriers etc. I was hoping to organise collecting and sending all our local communities sprues there.

What you’re saying is at direct odds with what the other user is though. It’s obviously preferable but if I worked at GW I’d be using that as a PR campaign and running a scheme that involves customers being able to drop off their unused sprues in bins at GW or to be sent to GW direct so they can be disposed of in a better way than being put in the bin.

Especially in today’s climate.

[EccentricCircle]

16 minutes ago, ArkanautDadmiral said:

It’s not recyclable unfortunately.

There are businesses that repurpose non recyclable materials into other forms though. One near me turns plastics into furniture, construction area barriers etc. I was hoping to organise collecting and sending all our local communities sprues there.

What you’re saying is at direct odds with what the other user is though. It’s obviously preferable but if I worked at GW I’d be using that as a PR campaign and running a scheme that involves customers being able to drop off their unused sprues in bins at GW or to be sent to GW direct so they can be disposed of in a better way than being put in the bin.

Especially in today’s climate.

Thanks, yeah don't put too much stock in my anecdote, it definitely falls into the "thing a shopkeeper told me once category" I have no way to verify that he was right/honest about it.

[EntMan]

54 minutes ago, ArkanautDadmiral said:

Because in all my working life I’ve not experienced the company throwing perfectly good non perishable stock in the bin.

old books can be recycled, why would they be destroyed?

Do you know what’s classed as leftover stock? How old does it need to be? You’ve mentioned it in relation to dominion so when do you expect that to be destroyed?

Why wouldn’t they sell off at a discount, both to end user and wholesale? In anticipation of storage requirements? 

I can't remember enough to back up with specific examples but I think I remember hearing that brands, particularly "luxury" brands, would rather destroy stock than have it sold off at a discount that would devalue the luxury status of the brand.

[JackStreicher]

24 minutes ago, EccentricCircle said:

Thanks, yeah don't put too much stock in my anecdote, it definitely falls into the "thing a shopkeeper told me once category" I have no way to verify that he was right/honest about it.

 

Other things that are sent back to GW to be perished: overstock of books, outdated books, for example the old Nighthaunt push-fit kits etc. to make room for new product.

I‘d prefer companies to sell those at a discount or give them away, yet it‘s not the case in most businesses. If the production cost of a product is 50 cents you won’t invest 2 Dollars to recycle or upcycle or rebox it.
Tossing products into the bin: Amazon does it, most bakeries do it, the Food Industrie does it, the tech-Industrie does it. What makes you even think GW does not do it?

 

Quite honestly: believe what you will - I an sorry to have burst your bubble.

[ArkanautDadmiral]

5 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

 

Other things that are sent back to GW to be perished: overstock of books, outdated books, for example the old Nighthaunt push-fit kits etc. to make room for new product.

I‘d prefer companies to sell those at a discount or give them away, yet it‘s not the case in most businesses. If the production cost of a product is 50 cents you won’t invest 2 Dollars to recycle or upcycle or rebox it.
Tossing products into the bin: Amazon does it, most bakeries do it, the Food Industrie does it, the tech-Industrie does it. What makes you even think GW does not do it?

 

Quite honestly: believe what you will - I an sorry to have burst your bubble.

It’s quite different for companies that make perishable goods to do it (bakeries, food industry as you say) compared to GW and tech industry… you can’t compare something for consumption that rots after a period of time to plastic which is why I said I’ve not heard of companies throwing non perishable stock in the bin. And even then food waste in the industry is something regularly brought up to be combatted.

Amazon said all the surplus stock they get rid of goes to recycling centres, not landfill, which I do doubt with them, but generally everyone was shocked to see Amazon doing that, not that it’s a common occurrence for non perishable items. It’s a big expose and is obviously getting government attention too.

What makes me think GW doesn’t do it? Well i’d expect competent stock and production management and rotation… the general complaint with GW is they don’t make enough. But it’s besides the point, you claimed they were so I asked about it… Like I say I work for a company that makes perishable goods (though up to and 18 month shelf life) and our production is based on forecasts to satisfy demand and rotate stock without generating waste…

Quite honestly believe what I will? You’re sorry for bursting my bubble?

I don’t understand? Have I done something wrong or asked a question I shouldn’t have? What’s with the that response? Why are you bringing it up if you don’t want to talk about it? I’m not even saying I don’t believe you I’m just asking for information?

So can you answer what the shelf life is? How much time do they allocate to stocking something like Dominion before destroying it? 
 

[JackStreicher]

55 minutes ago, ArkanautDadmiral said:

What makes me think GW doesn’t do it? Well i’d expect competent stock and production management and rotation

That is the exact reason why products are getting binned - product management and rotation. 

 

56 minutes ago, ArkanautDadmiral said:

I don’t understand? Have I done something wrong or asked a question I shouldn’t have? What’s with the that response? Why are you bringing it up if you don’t want to talk about it? I’m not even saying I don’t believe you I’m just asking for information?

You implicitly said I could be lying so you can believe what you will,  I've no reason to lie.

 

57 minutes ago, ArkanautDadmiral said:

you can’t compare something for consumption that rots after a period of time to plastic which is why I said I’ve not heard of companies throwing non perishable stock in the bin.

I made the comparison because you asked yourself why they did not sell those items at a discount instead of binning them. It's the same with perishable products: They could gift those to the employees, to homeless people etc. yet most still don't. That was my comparison ^^ (the reason most often is the fear to lose profit or to devalue their brand)

 

1 hour ago, ArkanautDadmiral said:

So can you answer what the shelf life is? How much time do they allocate to stocking something like Dominion before destroying it? 

This I do not know. My assumption was, that they've made so many Dominion boxes that binning those would actually be a significant loss of money, so they decided (for the first time) to sell those at a reduced price.
If I had to guess I'd say that shelf life for push-fit is as long as an edition cycle. Boxed sets are very varied so they will have to go once a similar set is launched

[ArkanautDadmiral]

4 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

That is the exact reason why products are getting binned - product management and rotation. 

 

You implicitly said I could be lying so you can believe what you will,  I've no reason to lie.

 

I made the comparison because you asked yourself why they did not sell those items at a discount instead of binning them. It's the same with perishable products: They could gift those to the employees, to homeless people etc. yet most still don't. That was my comparison ^^ (the reason most often is the fear to lose profit or to devalue their brand)

 

This I do not know. My assumption was, that they've made so many Dominion boxes that binning those would actually be a significant loss of money, so they decided (for the first time) to sell those at a reduced price.
If I had to guess I'd say that shelf life for push-fit is as long as an edition cycle. Boxed sets are very varied so they will have to go once a similar set is launched

Can you expand on that first comment?

 

Show me where I implied you were lying and I’ll happily apologise, but I’ve not done that anywhere. You’ve made a comment and I’ve asked for information, nowhere have I said you’re lying… I’ve no reason to think you’re lying either. In fact I’ve just gone through my comments and can’t understand where I’m supposed to have accused you of lying?

A lot of businesses do those things with perishable goods, supermarkets have sections with end of shelf date food at discount, and they DO donate surplus food to charities here in the UK… they can’t do that with it all though unfortunately because it rots. It’s not the same having to throw an inedible bag of potatoes in the bin as it is destroying plastic toys, it’s not remotely similar and as I say, food is discounted and is also donated.  Supposedly 7800 tonnes by uk supermarkets a year. Spain and France better with 100,000-118,000 a year. It’s obviously still an issue but it is discounted and it is donated. Maybe it’s completely different where you are?

Can’t fathom how you think it’s the same. Perishable products have to be gotten rid of, it’s illegal (UK) to sell food past it’s use by date so it has to be destroyed for safety, it’s not a remotely similar situation.

 

This isn’t me saying you’re lying about GW destroying product, maybe they are, which is why I’m asking questions, to learn more. But it’s definitely not similar to the food industry.

 

Did you get an indication in your conversations about how much stock is sent to be destroyed?

If it’s as long as an edition cycle, would that mean for example boxes of Beastgrave would start to be recalled from GW stores for destruction now with the release of Harrowdeep? Will have already happened with Shadespire?

[EccentricCircle]

10 minutes ago, ArkanautDadmiral said:

Can you expand on that first comment?

 

Show me where I implied you were lying and I’ll happily apologise, but I’ve not done that anywhere. You’ve made a comment and I’ve asked for information, nowhere have I said you’re lying… I’ve no reason to think you’re lying either. In fact I’ve just gone through my comments and can’t understand where I’m supposed to have accused you of lying?

A lot of businesses do those things with perishable goods, supermarkets have sections with end of shelf date food at discount, and they DO donate surplus food to charities here in the UK… they can’t do that with it all though unfortunately because it rots. It’s not the same having to throw an inedible bag of potatoes in the bin as it is destroying plastic toys, it’s not remotely similar and as I say, food is discounted and is also donated.  Supposedly 7800 tonnes by uk supermarkets a year. Spain and France better with 100,000-118,000 a year. It’s obviously still an issue but it is discounted and it is donated. Maybe it’s completely different where you are?

Can’t fathom how you think it’s the same. Perishable products have to be gotten rid of, it’s illegal (UK) to sell food past it’s use by date so it has to be destroyed for safety, it’s not a remotely similar situation.

 

This isn’t me saying you’re lying about GW destroying product, maybe they are, which is why I’m asking questions, to learn more. But it’s definitely not similar to the food industry.

 

Did you get an indication in your conversations about how much stock is sent to be destroyed?

If it’s as long as an edition cycle, would that mean for example boxes of Beastgrave would start to be recalled from GW stores for destruction now with the release of Harrowdeep? Will have already happened with Shadespire?

I think/hope that the "lying" comment is a miscommunication. It looks like the "burst your bubble post" is actually replying to my comment about the veracity of what I was told by a GW salesperson, not your questions. I think he read both posts together, and thought my statement that I didn't know how reliable the store managers statements were was directed at him, and then when you responded he thought that was you. I may be wrong, but that's how it looks to me reading back after the fact.

It doesn't surprise me at all that they destroy the books and cards, as those are perceived to have a "shelf life" even though by any sensible definition they shouldn't. I had hoped that this didn't extend to the actual models themselves, which explicitly don't expire. That said, I'm afraid to say that in this day and age it doesn't surprise me at all that they might do this. Consumerism is a blight upon society, and at this stage I don't think there is much that big companies do which I can be shocked by, sadly. Lets just hope plenty of those models end up in the hands of people who will love and cherish them before they are sacrificed on the altar or profit margins.

Its not as though we have infinite plastic reserves, oil is a fossil fuel, and one day there won't be any of it left. More companies need to take the route Lego are and start developing more sustainable bio-plastics. Its likely more expensive for them in the short term, but it would be nice if future generations are able to have these models too!

[JackStreicher]

Seems like I mixed the two of you up then. Sorry

[Angela]

Companies destroying their products to not dilute their brand is unfortunately very common. There has been somethings online lately about Whole Foods throwing away not expired food. This article about that also mentions Coach (purses) destroying their products:
https://www.newsweek.com/whole-foods-food-waste-bread-tiktok-dumpster-diving-1639659

And of course there is the Atari dump thing from a long time ago:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_video_game_burial

 

[Noserenda]

Wildly off topic much? 

You can always recycle sprues into sprue-goo or rubble, i understand GW recycles sprues used at WHW but the plastic has severe diminishing returns so its not really a solution to all sprues unless you want a noticeable drop in mini quality.

I reaaaally doubt Dominion will be going in the bin anytime soon though, Dreadfleet hung around for aaaages before the disposed of the remainers and apparently Indomnitus was originally expected to last until Christmas, even in light of Indomnitus being a mega smash hit i can imagine they would expect something similar for Dominion.

 

[Noserenda]

And yeah, companies destroy stuff all the time, when i worked in retail/food we destroyed sandwiches and the like every day to stop homeless people getting them, well, unless we "forgot" to.

[ArkanautDadmiral]

It is off topic sure, so this will be my last piece  unless I start a new thread.

We know about food waste, it’s an issue, but it’s also an issue that is at least being attempted to rectify. But I think we can safely leave this out of the comparison with non perishable goods. Food goes off and is unsafe to eat, the only place it can go after is to be disposed of, if it’s not disposed of in a bin it will rot to nothing where it is anyway and be a health issue, plastic toys won’t. You can’t compare them because at a point the food HAS to be disposed of, plastic toys don’t have to be. Also the food waste argument isn’t an issue of environmental destruction, it’s an issue of food poverty. Dumping plastics that don’t degrade into landfill is an environmental issue, not a question of food poverty. So I think it’s safe not to relate them in this discussion. 

The destruction of non perishable goods however that don’t have a shelf life is different, and should rightly be met with outrage if they’re not being disposed of in a sustainable way. And of the examples being given, they have been met with outrage.

The purse company coach has vowed not to destroy items anymore but they also said what were found by the Tiktok girl were already damaged or otherwise unsellable. Supposedly, so they say, I’m not saying they’re not lying but they’re saying there’s a reason that’s not just ‘it’s taking up space’.

The Atari example was obviously met with condemnation too and was excavated.

Amazon has had the prime minister commenting on looking into it. They’re issues that are rightly being looked at.

It’s strange that in conversation about some of GWs other business tactics the ‘all corporations do that’ excuse isn’t accepted, but it seems ok to fly here?

If GW aren’t recycling surplus materials and are sticking them all in landfill it should be looked into and established what the scale of that is.

It should be brought up in critiques of GWs business practices as often as the others. But  for some reason it’s not?

I don’t personally buy the devaluing of the brand narrative in relation to GW. They sell plenty to third parties which is almost always sold at a discount.

Anyway I’ll leave it there and maybe create a topic when I’ve discovered more about the situation.

[EccentricCircle]

"Not wanting to devalue the brand" is their stock answer for why they don't do sales usually.

I remember when AoS came out, I wanted to complete my collection of 8e army books, and scoured a few different GW shops for them. I asked if they would be put on sale now that the game was being discontinued, and was told "Nope! That would be mean to the people who already bought them at full price, you can buy them for full price, until next Thursday when they all go in the bin"

[yukishiro1]

Yeah, GW has definitely historically destroyed product rather than sell it at a reduced price tag. I don't know if they still do it. And I don't know if plastic sprues can just be tossed back into the vat and boiled down and then remade into a different sprue, or whether there'd be any economic reason to do that rather than just binning them - and I kind-of doubt GW would pay more to have them sent back to the factory for reuse if it was cheaper to just bin them. 

These days it might actually be worth shipping it back to the factory to be melted down though, with prices up as much as they are. 

Edited November 1, 2021 by yukishiro1

[GrimDork]

I remember back in the late 90's/early 00's, GW did have a clearance section (I'm not sure if that was just my local branch doing their own thing?). It was mainly blister packs (some boxed stuff tho) of metal minis that were going OOP. I remember picking up a chaos dwarf on lammasu, gorthor beast lord on chariot, azazel and a load of gorkamorka minis for dirt cheap.

One of my biggest regrets was not getting the WHQ '95 on sale, I remember a load of them on the shelf, all sealed and shiny for like £30. If I knew then what I know now I would've bought 10 of them and put em in the loft!

I understand why GW don't do sales as it would discourage people from ever buying things at full price. 

[Gareth 🍄]

£62.50 at Wayland currently, bit of a bargain:

Warhammer Age of Sigmar: Dominion - English - Wayland Games

[GrimDork]

40 minutes ago, Gareth 🍄 said:

£62.50 at Wayland currently, bit of a bargain:

Warhammer Age of Sigmar: Dominion - English - Wayland Games

Thanks, I don’t normally bother checking Wayland as prices rarely beat Dark Sphere!

Just ordered another one!

[MarkK]

8 hours ago, Gareth 🍄 said:

£62.50 at Wayland currently, bit of a bargain:

Warhammer Age of Sigmar: Dominion - English - Wayland Games

Got one for 75 euros, as I was considering buying the core book and a unit of Vindicators for conversion purposes, which would have ended up the same price, this was a great deal for me