AoS3 - Kruleboyz Discussion

[vHeatv]

On 5/17/2022 at 11:16 PM, NauticalSoup said:

It may be your opponent didn't know what he was doing or you got lucky. SDG are definitely a very strong unit for a whole host of reasons one of them being their almost unlimited engage range which can make it a real hassle to attack them on favourable terms.

Or you deploy well and screen well?

[NauticalSoup]

13 hours ago, Rachmani said:

I had a game with a list not unlike the grinning' blades list a few posts above vs. MSU Nighthaunt and absolutely slaughtered them. As it stands a high wound count list vs. a low wound count list works pretty well, when the latter is very susceptible to high volume attacks and mortal wounds. 

I'm kinda getting the vibe that the more 3.0 books hit the shelves, the better Kruleboys become. 

I wouldn't take this as indication of much on its own. You almost certainly would've dumpstered old nighthaunt much worse, they were just so bad nobody brought them to games. 

On the weekend my buddy with foot ogors tabled a seraphon list in 2 turns, doesn't mean seraphon aren't a top dog in the meta right now or even that foot ogors are good. 

[NauticalSoup]

14 hours ago, vHeatv said:

Or you deploy well and screen well?

There's many many many many many (many) pages discussing this in other threads on this site. Having seen them in action and tested them myself I would agree with the general consensus that, played correctly, SDG can't reasonably be screened out without crippling yourself (compounded by the fact a lot of SDG are backed up by longstrikes, one of the notable units with an even longer arm). You can screen them, and it helps, but their range is too bananas to eliminate their threat just by good deployment. 

The best lists in the game right now are built around minimizing counterplay. You don't get consistent podiums with a list that's overcome simply by your opponent screening well. It doesn't mean they can't be beaten, it means that you can't beat them consistently without your opponent making mistakes. It's probably also worth noting that Sigmar wins snowball really rapidly, so even the best lists in the game can get slaughtered outright in a couple turns if luck turns or mistakes are made so crushing an opponent in a single instance says very little on its own.

[Rachmani]

1 hour ago, NauticalSoup said:

I wouldn't take this as indication of much on its own. You almost certainly would've dumpstered old nighthaunt much worse, they were just so bad nobody brought them to games. 

On the weekend my buddy with foot ogors tabled a seraphon list in 2 turns, doesn't mean seraphon aren't a top dog in the meta right now or even that foot ogors are good. 

It's just a hunch. Maybe it's finally giving up on heavy bolt boys and switching to a wound heavy army. There's something there, I just haven't figured out exactly what. 

[Ganigumo]

28 minutes ago, Rachmani said:

It's just a hunch. Maybe it's finally giving up on heavy bolt boys and switching to a wound heavy army. There's something there, I just haven't figured out exactly what. 

We've seen some results from it recently, but I'm not sure what KB bring to the table that other armies with similar strats available to them don't.

You can play similar lists in Gitz, BoC, fyreslayers, Bonesplitterz, Ironjawz (non-pig non-krusha ironjawz builds have a ridiculous number of wounds), etc.

These kinds of MSU screen spam lists are good against armies that overinvest in big hammers, because if you play correctly the 500 point hammer won't ever have anything but chaff in front of it while you focus on objectives. They can be good against shooting as well (with KB getting extra anti shooting) but anything that isn't chaff will just be picked off the table in the first couple of turns so if you're really reliant on those heroes the army can start to fall apart.

These lists have typically been pretty weak in aos3 and I'm pretty sure its because of how hard it is to score Battle tactics with an army like that. The game really tends to reward overkill damage on highly mobile or long range pieces to guarantee stuff like broken ranks or bring it down. This is the real reason horde armies flatlined once aos3 started, because objective control isn't enough to win games anymore.

[Rachmani]

I'm honestly not sure either, @Ganigumo. But in the current state it's not so much "which army works best" for me, but rather "how do Kruleboys work best." 

I like the models and how they play too much (and I've frankly put too much time into them) to just not play them.

And so far they've worked better like this than boltboys-spam does.

[NauticalSoup]

It probably heavily depends on your local meta. Boltboy spam is ludicrously vulnerable to certain lists that can mist all your boltboyz before they can do the work, so playing into that it makes sense to lean more into a wound density list.

The trouble is that KB don't really... excel at that. They can't even compete with the two other armies they share a book with

[Rachmani]

I agree. The lists I really love to play are a bit "Jack-of-all-trades"ish. A good mix of everything so you can use the full toolbox. And it really kinda feels like Kruleboys were designed for that. Sadly the boys are a tad too weak in... basically everything then. Is really fun though against lists with a similar approach. 

I do however think that a points drop could really benefit those types of lists. (But would probably benefit a more specialized one more).

Edited May 27, 2022 by Rachmani

[Skreech Verminking]

Dearest green-things player,

This is what happens to a dobby, when he gets captured by rats, yes-yes

what you see here is a Master moulder on his mew rat ogor bonebreaker mount, or basically it is going to be played as a clalwlord on brood horror (even if it is a legend warscroll)

may any new ork like kit be cruelly taken a part by us-us skaven yes-yes,

let the skaven rise again!

[Vasshpit]

@Skreech Verminking I salute you. Well done, furry one. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The swamp will still take you...☠🐀

[woolf]

11 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Dearest green-things player,

This is what happens to a dobby, when he gets captured by rats, yes-yes

what you see here is a Master moulder on his mew rat ogor bonebreaker mount, or basically it is going to be played as a clalwlord on brood horror (even if it is a legend warscroll)

may any new ork like kit be cruelly taken a part by us-us skaven yes-yes,

let the skaven rise again!

fingers crossed for some nice new rats so we can return-pay the favour! great to see some nice hobby, well done!

[Skreech Verminking]

2 hours ago, woolf said:

fingers crossed for some nice new rats so we can return-pay the favour! great to see some nice hobby, well done!

Your out if luck, at least for this year.

maybe in the next 4 we will see something 

[Epix]

If you are interested, I found that The Hobbit goblins are a good match for Kruleboyz (also very easy to build/paint and relatively cheap).

Edited June 4, 2022 by Epix

[Jabbuk]

On 9/13/2021 at 4:20 AM, Kasper said:

How fast are you getting that +1 hit/wound up and running through? On paper it looks like it will take a long time, like turn 3 the earliest?

I play Big Waaagh! And by turn two, if you roll good, sometimes you can get 20pts (threshold for +1hit +1wnds) but usually it ticks on turn 3, yes. You play very cagey and strategic with BW, so turn one is often times very static. Everytime I have played them lately I have my bonuses when it matters. This is not an alpha strike army.

[woolf]

guys is MW dmg which is triggered by VEW reduced by things like thunderlizards and nigthhaunt krulghast?

[zombiepiratexxx]

16 hours ago, woolf said:

guys is MW dmg which is triggered by VEW reduced by things like thunderlizards and nigthhaunt krulghast?

Yes, if you are doing multiple damage per wound, so a D2 weapon even if triggered by VEW would still go to D1. 

[Orkmann]

2 hours ago, zombiepiratexxx said:

Yes, if you are doing multiple damage per wound, so a D2 weapon even if triggered by VEW would still go to D1. 

Scaly skin doesnt work against mortal wounds per the faq. Reg. the Krulghast and DoK's invocation my understanding is that they wont be impacting VEW either, because mortals are not coming through the regular attacks sequence. The target just takes mortals equal to the damage characteristics of the weapon due the VEW allegience ability.

[woolf]

4 hours ago, zombiepiratexxx said:

Yes, if you are doing multiple damage per wound, so a D2 weapon even if triggered by VEW would still go to D1. 

 

1 hour ago, Orkmann said:

Scaly skin doesnt work against mortal wounds per the faq. Reg. the Krulghast and DoK's invocation my understanding is that they wont be impacting VEW either, because mortals are not coming through the regular attacks sequence. The target just takes mortals equal to the damage characteristics of the weapon due the VEW allegience ability.

hmm so 2 different views... any formal sources that you could point me towards?

thanks!

 

Edit: found the Seraphon FAQ and it indeed says clearly scaly skin does not affect MW, so I would assume that is then the same for the other abilities as worded similarly

Edited June 13, 2022 by woolf

[NauticalSoup]

If you want your answer it's inherent to the way MWs work, as they are inflicted outside the attack sequence, while scaley skin (and all similar rules) only affects successful attacks. That wording is specific to failed saves during a standard attack sequence. Ergo, mortal wounds are not inflicted by successful attacks (even attacks that generate mortals do so regardless of whether the attack was successful or not).

What @Orkmann said, basically.

[Rors]

Not played with or against Kruelboyz but I'm considering them as the model line is so nice.

Is there a competitive list that doesn't involve spamming bolts in big yellas? Everything I've seen on the net seems to suggest it's the only way to run them outside of very casual games.

[vHeatv]

23 minutes ago, Rors said:

Not played with or against Kruelboyz but I'm considering them as the model line is so nice.

Is there a competitive list that doesn't involve spamming bolts in big yellas? Everything I've seen on the net seems to suggest it's the only way to run them outside of very casual games.

I think Boltboyz are basically the only answer at the moment. I'm having some great success with 3 gnashtoof, Kragnos, 5*3 Boltboyz and dinner hobgrotz. Which is unique, and fun but still doesn't get away from the Boltboyz spam.

 

The GHB is out in two weeks and who knows... It could change everything?

(Battleline focus and points drops?)

[Arzalyn]

1 hour ago, Rors said:

Not played with or against Kruelboyz but I'm considering them as the model line is so nice.

Is there a competitive list that doesn't involve spamming bolts in big yellas? Everything I've seen on the net seems to suggest it's the only way to run them outside of very casual games.

There were two grinning blades lists last month that won tournaments, one with no boltboyz (you can find it here a couple of pages back) and one with a unit of boltboyz (I think I posted it here as well). It focus much more on spamming bodies with Gutrippaz and Hobgrotz. I have yet to test them myself and people around here seemed skeptical of them, but they got results while the boltboyz spam still didn't get much so far.

Our model line is simple stunning, but keep in mind that is hard to not see some spam in our lists. We basically have 3 no hero/ buff/artillery units, which don't give much variety while list building unless you go a balanced approach and include 1-2 of each unit. 

[woolf]

2 hours ago, Rors said:

Not played with or against Kruelboyz but I'm considering them as the model line is so nice.

Is there a competitive list that doesn't involve spamming bolts in big yellas? Everything I've seen on the net seems to suggest it's the only way to run them outside of very casual games.

nah just play them casual and enjoy the hobby side

competitively probably most other armies are in a better place

[Ganigumo]

1 hour ago, Arzalyn said:

There were two grinning blades lists last month that won tournaments, one with no boltboyz (you can find it here a couple of pages back) and one with a unit of boltboyz (I think I posted it here as well). It focus much more on spamming bodies with Gutrippaz and Hobgrotz. I have yet to test them myself and people around here seemed skeptical of them, but they got results while the boltboyz spam still didn't get much so far.

Our model line is simple stunning, but keep in mind that is hard to not see some spam in our lists. We basically have 3 no hero/ buff/artillery units, which don't give much variety while list building unless you go a balanced approach and include 1-2 of each unit. 

The strat was basically "screen spam" where you spam a bunch of MSU junk and die slowly while working to score BT.
Its what BoC have been doing for ages. It plays pretty well into a meta that can't spread damage well, kruleboys can stack some anti-ranged as too, although these kinds of lists tend to pair up well into shooting if they're not reliant on a specific piece that can be shot.

[woolf]

54 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

The strat was basically "screen spam" where you spam a bunch of MSU junk and die slowly while working to score BT.
Its what BoC have been doing for ages. It plays pretty well into a meta that can't spread damage well, kruleboys can stack some anti-ranged as too, although these kinds of lists tend to pair up well into shooting if they're not reliant on a specific piece that can be shot.

"winning-by-dying-(but slowly enough!)"