Orkmann

Scaly skin doesnt work against mortal wounds per the faq. Reg. the Krulghast and DoK's invocation my understanding is that they wont be impacting VEW either, because mortals are not coming through the regular attacks sequence. The target just takes mortals equal to the damage characteristics of the weapon due the VEW allegience ability.

I like the dokks for their healing, which is great with the Wurrgog. Another thing is that I think it's worth to try the wardokks with a larger unit of stikka boyz, esp if you already have them painted. I was quite sad for my foot boyz when the tome released, but than I tried to run a unit of 30 and it worked very well. It's a lot of points but it changes how the army plays. The piggies hit hard but lack the staying power, while the big blob is super tanky, considering the waaagh and potential rallies. It also helps with Hold the Line, as GS can be an issue otherwise.

I prefer maniacs but usually end up mixing them. I think the main consideration is that maniacs hit harder, but the boarboys are more tanky, are battleline in icebone and their lower cost often means than you can take an extra unit.

It was a special rule in the aos2 version of the woods, but thats not the case anymore, so boltboys wont be able to see through the woods

I have seen a lot of Kraggy lists in action recently and I think he should work well in BSP. One thing I would consider to make room in the list for is the soulscream bridge and/or the lifeswarm. The first one is just increasing his threat range to the whole board and the latter can do wonders to keep him alive.

What I've found is that it's worth to run a unit of 30 savages with a wardokk or two, and that helps with hold the line too. Its a lot of points but still a great anvil, so the rest of the army can focus on the offensive - eg. Im taking maniacs over boarboyz.

I think they are a bit expensive for screening and due to coherency they cant cover a huge area anyway. But I believe BSP is not that bad as the initial reviews suggested, even Bonegrinz can have game, with Kraggy or a gargant merc.

That is a feel bad scenario indeed, but I dont think you appreciate how alpha strike armies operate. If the turn order is fixed, those will just take the turn, kill half your army and/or remove key pieces in the top of turn 1 and now your suddenly playing a 1200p army vs 2000. What are the odds that you can recover from that, without the chance of doubling your opponent? Very thin, I'd say.

I think that would do quite the opposite: encouraging players to go all in top of t1. The roll off mechanism is actually mitigating the impact of alpha strike, esp alpha shooting, in the game, because the attacker is always risking getting doubled - even if the other side suffers heavy losses, he might crawl back into game with a double. With fixed turn order that risk is significantly lower.

I like the roll off mechanism of the game, but I found the drop count based initiative for round1 is not working in AoS, so I'd rather just roll off for round 1 too. This is sometime we actually do in friendly games (or the player with stronger list deliberatily goes for higher drops). I believe a lot of the negative experience is coming from games playing against a stronger army which is also lower drops, so can just safely give the turn away and the game can be over if they get the double.

I quite like those oop metal shamans as well - there are 3-4 versions of them, like this champ (not my painting, just example) https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/37576978115342577/

I think with the current point cost a single cabbage and a bunch of pigz in BT is the best general list for IJ. It gives you more bodies, more board control, more screening ability than two cabbages. The double cabbage list is strong ofc, and in some battleplans/match ups you dont need to worry about screening and stuff, but for me it feels it has less play in it.

That vicious one which is chasing that innocent grot seems very much alive (yet) !

That's a big hit if true, esp for a fresh book like OWC. Wonder what they have in the bag for the real baddies 🤔

Is this the confirmed price? The rest of the range was quite reasonably priced, only real expensive is the bird, so may not be a surprise, but its still a lot for 3 32mm dudes.

Aelves should always wear hats. AoS would be a better place without those pointy ears!

Great summary on Drakkfoot. The only thing I'd add is that the dream of flying pigz isnt dead! I like the idea of a boar shaman (with fast un) supporting the piggies with levitate, in case they need to charge through some screen or run 6 to fly over stuff to capture an objective.

Sounds rough man, hero phase shooting sucks, but thanks for sharing. What I'm seeing is that these sort of shooty castle builds are all over the place, thats why I prefer the one cabbage, 2 drop builds. Not helping against LRL or other one drop stuff, but if I have the turn choice I just screen out the heroes, give away the turn and an exciting t2 priority is guaranteed.

It's not only about the alpha, gruntas are great for trading/skirmishing due to their speed. For instance in situations when some chaff is holding an objective which you need to take but you also know that whoever goes there will be dead in your opponents turn / or you simply not ready to fully commit. This is very much up to your playstyle, but running two cabbages feels like I'm too thin on the ground. Funnily this is exactly the same debate we used to have around the old book, only difference is that now the choice is btw single or double cabbage instead of taking one or none 🙂. The jury is still out there for the new book, but I believe with the old book the none-cabbage version was the more competitive choice.

In my eyes the main weakness of IJ in AoS2 was the lack rend. The only solution to deal with tanky armies used to be the cabbage with the metalrippa and hero phase fighting (against OBR). These options are gone now, so the extra rend of the brutes comes very handy. Based on point cost and mathhamer, the gruntas are the most effecient in the army, which makes them a great generalist unit, esp due to their speed. I consider the brutes more of a specialist unit to deal with tanky targets. So in terms of list building, I like to take a unit of 10 brutes, arboyz to fill out the remaining bline slots (in Ironsunz) and as many MSU pigz as possible.

Nice one, I did miss that in the book. Even if this is not an indication of what will be released, I'm genuinly happy that the *named character in the spoiler* did actually achieve something. Last years been a bit rough on him 😆

Malakree makes some great points here. You take the block of 30 savages if you want a big anvil in your army. While they have become very expensive, but that is somewhat compensated by the potential rallies and the base save increase to 5+. On the other hand, the wardokk cannot cast anymore if he attempts the dance so you need another wizard to cast mystic shield to really lean into their tankiness. Also, they damage output has dropped a lot in BW as they have lost one attack and the +1 to wound on the charge is less valuable than in BSP. It is to be seen on the field, but at this point I don't think they worth their cost. It depends on whether you want to bring a wurrgog for the BSP wizard slot, but if you look at the whole package it's 80+495=575 points and for 25 more you can now take 4×3 piggies, which is 60 wounds on a 4+ base. Granted, you wont have the big anvil, but the gruntas are fast multipurpose units, and they really work well with the new waaagh point generation (in aos2 you wanted a lot of bodies, now you need a lot of units).

I think the maniak is still a good pick for its cost. Due to his speed and the access to fast un he will be able to keep up with the piggies and cast mystic shield or levitate depending on the situation. While the most obvious choice is putting the glowing tattoo on the wurrgog, there is also a cheeky play if you give it to the maniak. In the turn when you call the waaagh, move him 24 inches and tag something scary - then just make sure you roll those 2+ ward saves and that scary thing is potentially out of action for a turn. Not as good as the good old Big Rukk tagging with rerolling 4+ all game, but its as good as it gets.

The discussion was mainly about double cabbage lists so thats min 2 drops. I personally still prefer one cabbabe as that suits my playstyle better, but even with that one drop lists feel too limited on the number of units.

I have no intension to subscribe for wh+, but I'd pay a smaller fee for the app only, if that's possible. I'm also getting the new orruk tome and it would be disappointing if I had to subscribe to wh+ to access the digital version.