Kragnos discussion

[C0deb1ue]

Kragnos remains a highly dubious use of 760 points. His only hope is that the warclans battletome has some sort of help for him….

[Lord Krungharr]

Maybe he'll have some goodies in the Destruction Allegiance in the Core Rulebook.  That's the only thing left besides a 200 point drop in the GHB that might make me want to use him.  

[Drazhoath]

4 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Maybe he'll have some goodies in the Destruction Allegiance in the Core Rulebook.  That's the only thing left besides a 200 point drop in the GHB that might make me want to use him.  

I hope so. Do you think we will get different allegiances? Because we have standart enhancements now and I dont think there are different enhancements for Destruction, Order,…🤔

[Lord Krungharr]

Oh that's a good point.  I have read others thinking there's no point to Grand Alliances anymore, with Morathi as an example of how not all of Order is orderly and together.  Skaven don't play with Chaos either, and Ogors can't ally with any but Troggs.

Such utter bleak hopelessness, and it's not even 40k!

[Lord Krungharr]

I'm gathering by the lack of posting that NOBODY thinks Kragnos is worth taking now.  He's going on eBay then.

[novakai]

6 minutes ago, Lord Krungharr said:

I'm gathering by the lack of posting that NOBODY thinks Kragnos is worth taking now.  He's going on eBay then.

i mean people are just waiting for the next edition first and gather how to play it first

[Lord Krungharr]

Guess that's worth a wait'n'see.

[novakai]

also it take a while to paint him up, i just finish mine today, 

but i am still in area that are hesitant to do any gaming right now either

[novakai]

Kragnos is now 695, maybe still expensive but hey

[Bululu]

and listed under orruks, one can only hope he gets some rules inside the faction ...

[C0deb1ue]

1 hour ago, novakai said:

Kragnos is now 695, maybe still expensive but hey

Looked like that was just in orruks? I wondered whether he gets an orruk keyword...

[novakai]

well it probably the first Battletome coming out so we don't have to wait long to find out

[PlasticCraic]

3 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

I'm gathering by the lack of posting that NOBODY thinks Kragnos is worth taking now.  He's going on eBay then.

Still completely unplayable imo, will get shot off when he charges now instead of just on your opponent's turn

Hopefully Kruleboyz / Warclans allegiance rescues him in some way, I'm holding out for that 🤞

[C0deb1ue]

3 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

I'm gathering by the lack of posting that NOBODY thinks Kragnos is worth taking now.  He's going on eBay then.

I have unfortunately bought one but it is still unopened pending some miracle that makes him OK...

[PlayerJ]

I cancelled my preorder of Kragnos when he was 760 pts with no Allegiances. BUT with him dropping points, under Warclans meaning he may gain benefits, we're looking at the potential for his star to rise.

[Lord Krungharr]

Hmmm, well I saw this leaked photo, and I'm thinking of selling off 1 Gatebreaker and 3 Mancrushers, as I don't want to make another 3 Mancrushers to run a SoB army, much less with only 1 Gatebreaker.  Pretty lame.  I have plenty of Stonehorns anyways for a monster mash.  Then I could be fiscally responsible and keep Kragnos in the box until we see if he gets a green blood transfusion!

[PlasticCraic]

4 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Hmmm, well I saw this leaked photo, and I'm thinking of selling off 1 Gatebreaker and 3 Mancrushers, as I don't want to make another 3 Mancrushers to run a SoB army, much less with only 1 Gatebreaker.  Pretty lame.  I have plenty of Stonehorns anyways for a monster mash.  Then I could be fiscally responsible and keep Kragnos in the box until we see if he gets a green blood transfusion!

There is a Kragnos list floating around with:

Kraggy

Warstomper

3x Mancrushers

1x Mancrusher

1x Mancrusher

Comes in at 1995.  Looks more like a meme list to me, but if you want to run him in Sons, that's one way you could go.

FWIW I'll be holding onto my Sons, I think they're looking on paper the strongest Destro army right now.  I don't know what my  list will end up being, but it won't have Kragnos!  Shame you can only (realistically) fit one Gatebreaker now, but overall it's a win for them imo.

[Scurvydog]

7 hours ago, PlayerJ said:

I cancelled my preorder of Kragnos when he was 760 pts with no Allegiances. BUT with him dropping points, under Warclans meaning he may gain benefits, we're looking at the potential for his star to rise.

It is weird that he is under Warclans. Gotrek also has the note of how he allies into other armies like both him and KRagnos had, however nothing like that is listed under Warclans

[SunStorm]

Got mine painted up.

If the leaked points for Ironjawz are correct I can just about squeeze him and 2 Mawkrushas in a 2000pt list.

Kragnos

Megaboss on Mawkrusha

Megaboss on Mawkrusha

Ardboyz x 5

Ardboyz x5

Ardboyz x5

Not going for competitive, but could be a fun monsterhammer game. 

[VoodooChileIRL]

Kragnos - 695

Weirdnob - 120 (General)
- Master of Magic
- Arcane Tome
- Levitate

Brutesx10 - 300
Gore Gruntas - 170
Gore Gruntas - 170

Cogs - 45

1500

Battle Regiment
Commander: 
Kragnos
Sub-Commander:
Weirdnob
Troops:
Brutes, GG, GG

I'm pretty sure this list would get shot off the field 9/10 but it still feels a bit filthy to be considering Kragnos in a 1500pt list. I'm sure that's just me being an institutionalized Destruction player with no real grasp on where different army power levels are now.

I find it interesting to give Kragnos Fly and that extra Charge range from Cogs but I'm unsure if it's really that useful. Also I think it is legal to count all this as a Battle Regiment as there doesn't seem to be a restriction on Allies being part of Core Battalions (open to correction here) and nothing that says the "Commander" role can't be occupied by someone who is not your general. 

[Malakree]

42 minutes ago, VoodooChileIRL said:

nothing that says the "Commander" role can't be occupied by someone who is not your general. 

Kraggies warscroll specifically states he is your general even if he's not so that wouldn't matter anyway 

10 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Hmmm, well I saw this leaked photo, and I'm thinking of selling off 1 Gatebreaker and 3 Mancrushers, as I don't want to make another 3 Mancrushers to run a SoB army, much less with only 1 Gatebreaker.  Pretty lame.  I have plenty of Stonehorns anyways for a monster mash.  Then I could be fiscally responsible and keep Kragnos in the box until we see if he gets a green blood transfusion!

I mean the Mega's all getting the Battleline roll as well is pretty amazing for that, SoB auto fills it's battleline requirements for free because it's almost impossible to make an army which doesn't have 3 units in it.

EDIT:  

4 hours ago, Scurvydog said:

It is weird that he is under Warclans. Gotrek also has the note of how he allies into other armies like both him and KRagnos had, however nothing like that is listed under Warclans

The ability to take him in any allegiance is actually on his warscroll so it's not changed in anyway. Only difference would be if he gains the Orruk Warclans keyword or not.

Edited June 18, 2021 by Malakree

[Frowny]

With the quintuple buffs of 1) Hero 2) Monster 3) 5 models on objectives 4) Points drop 5) Easy access to a 1+ save multiple ways) he seems much better positioned than he was even a little bit ago. Yes, he dies to mortal wounds slowly, but he can always heroic recovery back ~4 wounds per turn, so if you don't get him in one go, you have a lot of wounds to chew through. Easy access to a 1+ save and magic resistant will make him very hard to take down, while his charge. Plus he has natural anti-monster abilities, which go well into our future age of monsters. 

He seems pretty worthwhile in the right list. Maybe in Ogres so he can hide amongst all the other monsters, who can also charge and clear screens for him., who usually have a 5+ if they need to resist his ally damage and with multiple ways to heal it off. 

I think he has potential. 

[C0deb1ue]

32 minutes ago, Frowny said:

With the quintuple buffs of 1) Hero 2) Monster 3) 5 models on objectives 4) Points drop 5) Easy access to a 1+ save multiple ways) he seems much better positioned than he was even a little bit ago. Yes, he dies to mortal wounds slowly, but he can always heroic recovery back ~4 wounds per turn, so if you don't get him in one go, you have a lot of wounds to chew through. Easy access to a 1+ save and magic resistant will make him very hard to take down, while his charge. Plus he has natural anti-monster abilities, which go well into our future age of monsters. 

He seems pretty worthwhile in the right list. Maybe in Ogres so he can hide amongst all the other monsters, who can also charge and clear screens for him., who usually have a 5+ if they need to resist his ally damage and with multiple ways to heal it off. 

I think he has potential. 

The issues are all the same as before....
1) He gets taken down quickly by mortal wounds and they are literally everywhere.  700 point model with no FNP/ward is just a very expensive target.

2) His mobility is presently (not withstanding potential battletome buffs) is very poor. Slow for his size, big base, smaller tables easily chaffed/blocked.

if something answers those questions then he has potential.

Edited June 18, 2021 by C0deb1ue

[Lord Krungharr]

All I would ask is that they let him go over models with 4 wounds or less because he has a leaping horse body.  A big bumbly megagargant can step over them, so a giant horse should be able to jump over them.  But I am seeing more potential for using Kragnos now with the slight points drop and all the CAs in v3.0.  

And I also missed the Battleline role of Megagargants now....that bodes well for running him and 2 Megas plus 1 or 2 Mancrushers in 2k, if the Mega general can also fulfill a battleline role at the same time?

[Frowny]

Taken down quickly seems false. 30LRL archers will do on average 6 MW to him if they get off their spell. If all he does is heroic heal each phase, they would take all game to kill him. 15 snakes doubleshooting will do 10 wounds. Again if he heals each turn they will take 3 turns. And these are some of the hardest counters i can think of, and they are just generally strong units that give many many other models of problems, Not specifically him. He also has pretty forgiving brackets.

Not saying he's amazing but only looking at his downsides is also a little unfair. He seems pretty sturdy to me. 

Screens are also much worse in aos3 with the coherency changes since they can't string out as much. Smaller boards also will help him get stuck in faster. An 18 inch spread gives him a 50/50 first Turn charge with just a reroll. Maybe he only eats a screen but that's still points they don't have elsewhere and a big threat they have to deal with.