Kragnos discussion

[novakai]

i think you have to build an army around him to alleviate his shortcoming, he can be a little cheaper but his point decrease really help him, though generally most destruction army got a point increase as well so eh

 i also think MW problem is a bit over blown because of the current LrL sentinel problem which probably shouldn't exist, but he on average immune to spells and only range MW really works on him, but a lot of changes makes taking those killer blocks of range units harder because of point increase and reincforcement point. (bar LRL but that case is just an unhealthy example)

to be fair he has ok not great but not terrible mobility, sadly the levitate spell is +8 to cast and not reliable to sure up this weakness

[C0deb1ue]

23 minutes ago, novakai said:

i think you have to build an army around him to alleviate his shortcoming, he can be a little cheaper but his point decrease really help him, though generally most destruction army got a point increase as well so eh

 i also think MW problem is a bit over blown because of the current LrL sentinel problem which probably shouldn't exist, but he on average immune to spells and only range MW really works on him, but a lot of changes makes taking those killer blocks of range units harder because of point increase and reincforcement point. (bar LRL but that case is just an unhealthy example)

to be fair he has ok not great but not terrible mobility, sadly the levitate spell is +8 to cast and not reliable to sure up this weakness

he probably wouldn't be able to fly over anything anyway as his base is too large to easily clear 3 inches behind a line. It's not just mortal wounds, it's anything with a bit of rend as well. No ward save is just bad on huge point investments.

This guy will likely never get to choose what he engages and if an enemy holds up Kragnos with cheap chaff all day , that is a win for them not you. He needs to get priority targets to be useful, not kill 300 points of zombies... 

[novakai]

44 minutes ago, C0deb1ue said:

he probably wouldn't be able to fly over anything anyway as his base is too large to easily clear 3 inches behind a line. It's not just mortal wounds, it's anything with a bit of rend as well. No ward save is just bad on huge point investments.

This guy will likely never get to choose what he engages and if an enemy holds up Kragnos with cheap chaff all day , that is a win for them not you. He needs to get priority targets to be useful, not kill 300 points of zombies... 

I think at least either mystic shied or all out defense probably help against rend if I recall how save 1 work

kill 600 pt of zombies is probably worth it so they don’t respawn for reason

Edited June 18, 2021 by novakai

[Dingding123]

I'm thinking like others here that Maniak Wierdnob specifically is great with Kragnos - he can reroll both dispels and unbinds once per *turn*, so it's got a good shot at both unbinding a dangerous or debilitating spell and dispelling an Endless Spell walling off Kragnos in the same round; he's like a one-orc spell cleanup crew haha.  On top of that, the guy's got a whole foot of movement so he can position himself extra well.  If nothing else, casting Mystic Shield with two rolls should be really easy, even with penalties.

Another potentially huge boon is Emerald Lifeswarm - it'll likely be a point sink if it stays predatory, but if it heals every turn then combined with Rampages it'll makes Kragnos nigh invincible!  The same would then go for every other big guy as well, but still.

Edited June 22, 2021 by Dingding123

[T e e t h p a s t e]

Hi all,

For 3.0 I am looking at running Kragnos with my SoB. What I am trying to decide currently is whether to:

a) Run a Kraken Eater, Warstomper and 2x Mancrushers alongside Kragnos.

OR

b) Run a Kraken Eater, Gatebreaker, 1x Mancrusher and Emerald Lifeswarm alongside Kragnos. 

OR

c) Run 2x Gatebreakers, 1x Mancrusher and 1x Emerald Lifeswarm alongside Kragnos.

In my head, Emerald Lifeswarm alongside the new ways of healing for simply being a monster/ hero (can’t remember which) seems to be really effective but I bet the reality of it is disappointing.

[svnvaldez]

I used Kraggy in a casual game. He was fine and a lot of fun. Used a Bloodtoof IJ army. Auto teleported a line of 15 ardboyz with their 5in charge (reroll with a CP) to clear out screens Turn 1. Kraggy was able to go charge Turn 2 and did a ton of damage throughout the rest of the game.

[T e e t h p a s t e]

Does Kragnos stop you from taking allies?

I know his warscroll says you can't take any other mercenaries, but but are mercenaries and allies classed as the same thing?

[PlasticCraic]

On 6/23/2021 at 11:54 AM, svnvaldez said:

I used Kraggy in a casual game. He was fine and a lot of fun. Used a Bloodtoof IJ army. Auto teleported a line of 15 ardboyz with their 5in charge (reroll with a CP) to clear out screens Turn 1. Kraggy was able to go charge Turn 2 and did a ton of damage throughout the rest of the game.

Are you jumping back in for 3rd Ed Sam?  Interested to see what you cook up!

[novakai]

they change Kragnos's warscroll a bit

WARMASTER: This unit can be included in an Orruk Warclans, Gloomspite Gitz, Ogor Mawtribes or Sons of Behemat army. If it is, it is treated as a general even if it is not the model picked to be the army’s general, and you can still use the army’s allegiance abilities even if this unit is not from the army’s faction.

of course without army  keywords i am not sure what abilities he would benefit from on the top of my head

[the hatchetboy]

I'm really frickin confused:  without putting actual points values up here, is big K the points value from his book, or the points value listed under Orruck Warclans in the GH2021 pitched battles profiles?

Because that's a big drop over the course of about 2 weeks if it is...

[aosrulesbest]

On 7/5/2021 at 12:13 PM, the hatchetboy said:

I'm really frickin confused:  without putting actual points values up here, is big K the points value from his book, or the points value listed under Orruck Warclans in the GH2021 pitched battles profiles?

Because that's a big drop over the course of about 2 weeks if it is...

From my understanding, you always look the points from the latest release (Thus, now using the discounted point cost from Orruks).

[tripchimeras]

On 7/5/2021 at 5:13 AM, the hatchetboy said:

I'm really frickin confused:  without putting actual points values up here, is big K the points value from his book, or the points value listed under Orruck Warclans in the GH2021 pitched battles profiles?

Because that's a big drop over the course of about 2 weeks if it is...

Gotta remember that these books weren't written within 2 weeks of eachother.  Books are almost always locked in for printing months before they get released.  And that doesn't even take COVID into account.  My understanding is that the production/release schedules for everything are way off right now.  GHB 21 and AOS 3.0 are the first things to get released "on time" in quite a while.  I would bet Broken Realms Kragnos was written and locked in months before GHB 21 was.  The 2-3 week release gap is definitely deceptive I suspect.

[svnvaldez]

On 6/30/2021 at 3:12 PM, PlasticCraic said:

Are you jumping back in for 3rd Ed Sam?  Interested to see what you cook up!

Hope to make 3 60+ player two dayers between now and Feb. I plan to play Clans with the 3.0 book. Fresh reset. Been using Kragnos in a Ironsunz or Bloodtoof while learning AOS3---Fun and a good painting project.

[Lord Krungharr]

Those new Order Draconith dragons are HUGE.  I'm hoping they come with keywords that let Kragnos reroll hits and wounds against them, since they're his original enemies.  But they'll probably do the same vs him, or all Destruction units or something.  They'll have a big advantage of flight though, and somehow Kraggy killed almost all of them in his youth?  Makes little sense to me.  At least Kragnos looks cooler.  

[SunStorm]

9 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Those new Order Draconith dragons are HUGE.  I'm hoping they come with keywords that let Kragnos reroll hits and wounds against them, since they're his original enemies.  But they'll probably do the same vs him, or all Destruction units or something.  They'll have a big advantage of flight though, and somehow Kraggy killed almost all of them in his youth?  Makes little sense to me.  At least Kragnos looks cooler.  

As Kragnos already has a rule that allows him to reroll charge rolls and hit rolls while he is within 12" of any enemy STARDRAKES, DRAKES, DRACOTHS, DRACOLINES, it would make sense if they come with the DRAKE keyword as that's not used elsewhere right now right?

[Lord Krungharr]

Ah the Drake, yes you’re right.  They’ll probably have that keyword.  

[C0deb1ue]

On 7/27/2021 at 12:58 AM, Lord Krungharr said:

Those new Order Draconith dragons are HUGE.  I'm hoping they come with keywords that let Kragnos reroll hits and wounds against them, since they're his original enemies.  But they'll probably do the same vs him, or all Destruction units or something.  They'll have a big advantage of flight though, and somehow Kraggy killed almost all of them in his youth?  Makes little sense to me.  At least Kragnos looks cooler.  

Looks cooler and that is where the positives end.

[Lord Krungharr]

Orruks tome is on its way, with rules to save Kragnos' day!

[Dejnar]

Ive been reading some reviews now of the new Book. But no one mentions Kragnos. Seems a bit weird since he has his on chapter in the book and I could swear GW said he would be getting some new synergies in the new Book. 

[JanGret]

I could imagine the synergy being the kruelboy movement spell...

[C0deb1ue]

Didn't they put his point up again? 

Edited September 11, 2021 by C0deb1ue

[Holy_Diver]

On 9/12/2021 at 1:29 AM, C0deb1ue said:

Didn't they put his point up again? 

Yep, from 695 to 720.

[Lord Krungharr]

Gah, he just gets worse and worse.  I used Kragnos in 5 games this past weekend, and in game 5 he FINALLY made his points back, or at least a decent chunk by killing Arkhan the Black.  Before that he killed 2 Plaguebearers, maybe helped split 12 Pink Horrors, got rid of perhaps 20 Chainrasps, then fell hard to Legion of the First Prince doing absolutely nothing, and finally rolled a 3 when charging Nagash for his stupendous charge effect but was next to Mystical Terrain, and survived with 1 wound left to fight Arkhan and used Finest Hour and All Out Attack.  

To me he's garbage and I'm selling him off.  I wish I would have run 2 more Kraken Eaters instead of him and a Mancrusher.

[C0deb1ue]

On 9/15/2021 at 1:16 AM, Lord Krungharr said:

Gah, he just gets worse and worse.  I used Kragnos in 5 games this past weekend, and in game 5 he FINALLY made his points back, or at least a decent chunk by killing Arkhan the Black.  Before that he killed 2 Plaguebearers, maybe helped split 12 Pink Horrors, got rid of perhaps 20 Chainrasps, then fell hard to Legion of the First Prince doing absolutely nothing, and finally rolled a 3 when charging Nagash for his stupendous charge effect but was next to Mystical Terrain, and survived with 1 wound left to fight Arkhan and used Finest Hour and All Out Attack.  

To me he's garbage and I'm selling him off.  I wish I would have run 2 more Kraken Eaters instead of him and a Mancrusher.

Inflexible, boring design with huge destruction point tax. Dies easily and chaffed easily... no FNP... you can always keep him and hope they fix the warscroll in 3 years. The designers have done such a poor job that it's not even funny how terrible he is... and they put his points up... just why?

Edited September 24, 2021 by C0deb1ue

[Lord Krungharr]

I think if Tuskbreaker provided a 4 or even 5+ MW ward save that would be enough for me to keep him, but I can use that dough better to round out my Beasts of Chaos and make my last Kraken-Eater.  Either one will be more fun.