AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion

[Holy_Diver]

First test: 6 Khorne Fellspear Varanguard and a Lord on Karkadrak evaporated 4 stormdrake guard in All out Defence with 5+ ward  (the player in defence ws pretty lucky saving the first pile in, otherwise it wouldn't have been necessary to pile up twice)

...And next week we will have the complete tome in our hands.

Edited October 30, 2022 by Holy_Diver

[Agent of Chaos]

On 10/24/2022 at 1:02 AM, Boar said:

DP have 10 wounds so they go in Commander battalion slot, so this unfortunately does not work

Good pick up @Boar another reason running multiple DP isnt a great idea... dang...

[Magnus The Blue]

See a few more photos of the new book, so I thought I'd post here for anyone who hasn't see them.

Soul Grinder: up to 18 wounds and Piston driven legs up to damage 2.  Otherwise unchanged.  Better but still Meh.

Chaos Marauders: lost the cool charge rule and bonuses to hit/rend for having lots of them.  Now just get +1 to hit on the turn they charge.  Axe + shield is 5+ save but 1 4+/4+ attack.  Flail is 2 3+/4+ attacks.  They are now as bad as their models

Chaos Marauder Horsemen: weapon profiles look the same to me. Special rules are now: retreat and shoot/charge, +1 to hit the turn they retreat and -1 to wound for missile weapons targeting them.

Ogroid Myrmidon: basically unchanged.

Exalted hero of Chaos: Blade and shield (3+ save, 5+ mortal save, 4 attacks 3+/3+ R1 D2).  Duel Axes (4+ save, 8 attacks 4+/4+ R1 D2).  Free Eye of the Gods Role after deployment. +1A if withing 3" of an enemy hero/monster.

 

Exalted hero is very interesting.  If undivided they have a 20% change to start the game as a Daemon Prince (60% change of getting a good roll: rend, wizard, 5+ ward or Daemon Prince). In cabalists they are a wizard and with the Shield they are very tough for a 100 point model.  Can definitely see some play in spamming them, especially undivided cabalists.

Edited November 2, 2022 by Magnus The Blue

[SpiritofHokuto]

I can see a Despoilers "Monster Mash" with Soul Grinders having some success. 20 Wounds and a potential 3 wound heal is pretty beefy, plus Mark of Khorne giving them 3 extra attacks on the charge or Slaanesh meaning they can run, shoot and charge.

Marauders are possibly the most milquetoast warscroll in the game now. Will have to see what the Darkoath/Cultist units look like, but I'm guessing we won't see much of Marauders except in Ravagers now.

Marauder Horsemen do exactly what you want a light cavalry skirmisher to do and nothing more. Relatively cheap, fast and annoying. Even somewhat resilient to incidental ranged now so I can definitely see a place for them.

Myrmidon is very blah. Not that it's awful, but there's multiple more compelling options in the same points bracket.

Exalted Heroes are weird and again there's more compelling options for not many more points. Cheap Wizards in Cabalists is certainly a thing, especially with Mark of Tzeentch as with Sword and Shield they're tanky enough to be up field and so they'd be able to leverage Warp Reality.

[Magnus The Blue]

38 minutes ago, SpiritofHokuto said:

I can see a Despoilers "Monster Mash" with Soul Grinders having some success. 20 Wounds and a potential 3 wound heal is pretty beefy, plus Mark of Khorne giving them 3 extra attacks on the charge or Slaanesh meaning they can run, shoot and charge.

As someone who owns 3 Soul Grinders, I really hope this is viable but between their weak warscroll and the underwhelming Daemon Princes it's going to be an uphill battle.

[Grimrock]

Ok, that all sounds pretty decent. I was expecting marauders to go down to complete chaff so no surprises there. I'm just glad I only painted up one unit, people who bought 90-120 of them for the current book must be fuming at this point. Too bad about the myrmidon though, no synergy with the theridons should mean they lose out to chosen or varanguard most cases. 

I'm really happy to hear about the soul grinder though. Their points going down slightly and getting that much better is really intriguing. 230 points for 20 wounds is a pretty good deal by itself and throwing in nurgle would make them reasonably tanky for their cost. I haven't seen the new leaks but I think the biggest problem before was the 4+'s to hit, however now with all out attack and mark of khorne they could really slap. I don't know if I'll buy any as I just hate that the kit doesn't come with a base, but it does make Makes me slightly hopeful the Slaughterbrute/Mutalith Vortex Beast might see some improvements too.

Edit:
I was thinking more about the marauder horsemen and I'm really liking the change. Five man oval based units are pretty much the only viable screening unit type left in the game, but they're usually too squishy. Incidental ranged attacks can often kill a few models off and open up a charge around the screen. Giving the horsemen a -1 to wound from ranged is a really excellent buff for that screening role and means they might be able to survive long enough to ensure your key units don't get charged. I can definitely see taking one or two units in most lists.

Edited November 2, 2022 by Grimrock

[spenson]

7 hours ago, Magnus The Blue said:

As someone who owns 3 Soul Grinders, I really hope this is viable but between their weak warscroll and the underwhelming Daemon Princes it's going to be an uphill battle.

Daemon princes are ok when you give them a free command trait. At least two of them in a Despoilers list should be good (one bolstered by chaos for 14 wounds and another one with not to be denied). Two of the three trophies of conquest are also nice if you manage to take a warlord (maybe with 2 chaos sorcerer lords).

The Soul grinder isn't as bad as you'd think but they're not as good as chaos warriors. The attacks being 4+ to hit make it very unreliable. On the other hand, taking 3 of them gives access to a decent amount of shooting.

I'd take maybe 2 Nurgle Soul Grinders and 1 Khorne.

Edited November 2, 2022 by spenson

[Rors]

I think despoilers soul grinders will be absolute nightmares. 20 wounds, healing 3 wounds a turn, and negative one to wound in combat (nurgle). That's living up to the name as they really will just grind. Back them up with some cheap 12 wound mindstealers..

Anyone seen the vortex beast or slaughter brute. I'm waiting for the day when slaughterbrutes can shine.

[spenson]

13 minutes ago, Rors said:

I think despoilers soul grinders will be absolute nightmares. 20 wounds, healing 3 wounds a turn, and negative one to wound in combat (nurgle). That's living up to the name as they really will just grind. Back them up with some cheap 12 wound mindstealers..

Anyone seen the vortex beast or slaughter brute. I'm waiting for the day when slaughterbrutes can shine.

We've seen the mutalith. The only changes are +2W and you roll two dice instead of one within 9" of a Tzeentch wizard and keep one. It is a buff but I don't think it's enough considering it still doesn't do enough.

[Jaskier]

I'm honestly pretty split between Khorne and Nurgle for Soul Grinders. If you can charge, Khorne super boosts their output - doubling the claw attacks alone is big, and overall they are quite punchy at that point, as in they start comparing favourably to Mega-Gargants. On the flip side, a lot of my personal experience with Grinders is that they are extremely good space blockers because of their enormous base size, and thus will usually be on the receiving end of charges - wherein the Nurgle mark clearly wins out. I guess it really depends on whether you want to try to screen for them or use them as the screens. The other thing in Khorne's favor is that, at least until their next book comes out, many of the Blades of Khorne units buff Khorne stuff regardless of faction, whereas obviously most other cross-book god synergies have disappeared lately. If you run lots of Khorne marked stuff, giving Grinders another bonus attack from say an allied Bloodsecrator aura is pretty good too.  

Oh, the Slaughterbrute did leak by the by. It gained two wounds, and its crappy two attack profile got rolled into its six attack profile so now it has 8 Rend 1 D3 Damage attacks and 2 Rend - 3 Damage attacks. It has the Khorne keyword (ala the Mutalith having the Tzeentch keyword) and it now has two unique commands that only its bound hero can issue to it; counting as top bracket on the damage chart, and 3D6 charge with 18" max distance. It also deals D3 mortal wounds on a 2+ at the end of the combat phase to one enemy unit within 3" (and 1 mortal wound to itself) if it's more than 12" away from its master. 

Edited November 2, 2022 by Jaskier

[Grimrock]

49 minutes ago, Jaskier said:

Oh, the Slaughterbrute did leak by the by. It gained two wounds, and its crappy two attack profile got rolled into its six attack profile so now it has 8 Rend 1 D3 Damage attacks and 2 Rend - 3 Damage attacks. It has the Khorne keyword (ala the Mutalith having the Tzeentch keyword) and it now has two unique commands that only its bound hero can issue to it; counting as top bracket on the damage chart, and 3D6 charge with 18" max distance. It also deals D3 mortal wounds on a 2+ at the end of the combat phase to one enemy unit within 3" (and 1 mortal wound to itself) if it's more than 12" away from its master. 

It's not mind blowing, but for 175 points it doesn't really need to be. 16 wounds in despoilers and the top bracket command to really take advantage of that toughness seems pretty sturdy. The attacks aren't crazy good but assuming he kept the +1 to hit for being near his master I think it could do a good amount of damage. Also combining the khorne command for mortals on the charge, a stomp, and being out of range at the end of combat you could put out 3d3 mortals which is pretty solid for a single command point. All things considered I could definitely see taking one in a list.

[Bayul]

Can anybody explain to a non-S2D player what a Tzeentch / Cabalists army might look like with this battletome? Hero / Sorcerer spam? Do these S2D spells have such an impact on the overall strategy of the army to spell sling them? The spell lore seems so meagre. And what is Warp Reality good for?

[Rors]

So cabalist's don't really need to be T marked. I think often going undivided will be better because then you can spam eye of the gods rolls too.

The spell lore is probably 6/10 with all of them being good but situational. The warscroll spells tend to be where they shine, sorcerer and sorcerer on manticor both have amazing spells.

T marked is very very techy. I can let you keep charging units charge cycling since they can move and charge after teleporting out of combat.

I'm sure it'll get FAQ'd but you can also currently warp reality through a spell portal. So 18 inches, then then back of one model within 9, then their movement... Basically you can charge anything on the board with one unit a turn.

Cabalists T varangaurd could easily turn 1 charge something the opponent though was very safe in the backfield, then get teleported to safety or simply backwards so that they can charge again if they took spears.

[Smooth criminal]

15 hours ago, Magnus The Blue said:

Chaos Marauders: lost the cool charge rule and bonuses to hit/rend for having lots of them.  Now just get +1 to hit on the turn they charge.  Axe + shield is 5+ save but 1 4+/4+ attack.  Flail is 2 3+/4+ attacks.  They are now as bad as their models 

They are probably fine given allegiance changes. 2x 3+/4+ is what they've had previously. Having built-in bonuses from marks makes them 3x 3+/4+ with flails in Khorne or you can go for tarpit in Nurgle (shields now stack with Defense order making them 4+) and saves you the trouble of having a hero around.

Rend will be their biggest problem in terms of output but there are ways around that like Sun or MW prayer.

Each 20 block in Ravagers gives you 10 to bring back for free and you can dump reinforce on them effortlessly because not much else needs it.

They stopped being long threating missiles, yes, that role got taken by knights.

For large numbers of chaff that kills other chaff they are reasonable. And we still haven't seen what all of their darkoath support does.

[Malakithe]

What would be a good sub faction choice to spam Warriors and some Ogroids?

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

4 hours ago, Bayul said:

Can anybody explain to a non-S2D player what a Tzeentch / Cabalists army might look like with this battletome? Hero / Sorcerer spam? Do these S2D spells have such an impact on the overall strategy of the army to spell sling them? The spell lore seems so meagre. And what is Warp Reality good for?

I've been playing Cabalists with the leaks a bit, although I'm going Undivided because (as Rors pointed out) you can spam EotG rolls that way with Chaotic Conduit. The army I'm running is basically just a fairly standard Chaos army with bonus magic and lots of EotG rolls. I don't think it will resemble Tzeentch, tactically.

 

Tzeentch, to me, is about tactical positioning. You take mobile heroes and use them to pull slow units into place on objectives or out of combat to charge again and again. It's one of two Marks* I'd take with the new Ravagers (who I think have some play, honestly. The heroic action to recur units can be done in either turn, so you can move block your opponents quite easily. A bunch of mobile heroes pulling cheap or horde-y units into place or spawning them to block enemies seems like a good way to win at objectives, and I agree with Smooth criminal that Marauders may still have some game, which supports this kind of play).

 

In contrast, I think Cabalists love throwing Chaotic Conduit around to buff up already powerful units to silly levels (give it to Chosen with the Dread Banner for bonus hilarity), pinning down your opponents threats with Binding Damnation, and just murdering them in combat. There's some possible tricks, for sure, but I don't think they are actually going to be the sneaky movement types in the end.

 

As an additional and mostly unrelated note, I know a lot of people are meh on the Exalted Hero, but I think in Undivided Cabalists he's not too bad. An extra caster who has more durability for less points than the Sorceror Lord and can do a bit of damage (especially with Flaming Weapon and/or Slaughterer's Strength) can be a good deal. Obviously the lack of a warscroll spell hurts, but if have the points left over after getting the foot Sorc already, he might be a decent pick. Still need a bit more testing of the idea, though.

 

*The other is Undivded, because Eye of the Gods on units that you can sling at unattended objectives can make even low value chaff surprisingly useful. Distant third is Nurgle, mostly to assist in the "block" part of the strategy.

[ibel]

2 hours ago, Malakithe said:

What would be a good sub faction choice to spam Warriors and some Ogroids?

i would say "Everchoosen" (4+ Rally with big blocks is so nize)

I will take a list like this:

Spoiler

Host: Everchoosen

Belakor                               

Spell: Binding Damnation

Dämonenprinz  MdN    

Artefakt: The Conquert Crown

General: Not to be denied

Chaos Wizzard  MdS     

Spell: Dämonic Speed

Exalted Hero MdS          

Batteline

10 x Choosen MdS         

Ensolllerd Banner of Slaanesh

10 x Choosen MdN        

Ensolllerd Banner of Nurgle

Corvus Cabale or the Unmade oder Cypher Lords or (for 5 Points more) Marauder      

Monster

Warshrine Behemonth MdS      185

Prayer: Cursed

 

1995 Punkte

 

[Malakithe]

1 hour ago, ibel said:

i would say "Everchoosen" (4+ Rally with big blocks is so nize)

I will take a list like this:

  Reveal hidden contents

Host: Everchoosen

Belakor                               

Spell: Binding Damnation

Dämonenprinz  MdN    

Artefakt: The Conquert Crown

General: Not to be denied

Chaos Wizzard  MdS     

Spell: Dämonic Speed

Exalted Hero MdS          

Batteline

10 x Choosen MdS         

Ensolllerd Banner of Slaanesh

10 x Choosen MdN        

Ensolllerd Banner of Nurgle

Corvus Cabale or the Unmade oder Cypher Lords or (for 5 Points more) Marauder      

Monster

Warshrine Behemonth MdS      185

Prayer: Cursed

 

1995 Punkte

 

I want to use actual Warrior blocks and can you even take Bel'akor in an Everchosen list?

[Bayul]

Thank you for the answers @Rors @RocketPropelledGrenade

 

[ibel]

33 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

can you even take Bel'akor in an Everchosen list?

Jes u can. You can take him in every Fraktion but he will not profit from the Boni u get. If u take him in a Despoiler List its okay but he wound get the 2 Extra Wounds or a Trait as a Daeomon Prinze.

And He (Belakor) cant use his owne Subfraction Rules.... (for more Infos look at the "Damned Legion" Rules in the S2D BT)

Do u think or better how could we make Eternus work ?! (cool cool Model  )

[SpiritofHokuto]

7 hours ago, ibel said:

Jes u can. You can take him in every Fraktion but he will not profit from the Boni u get. If u take him in a Despoiler List its okay but he wound get the 2 Extra Wounds or a Trait as a Daeomon Prinze.

And He (Belakor) cant use his owne Subfraction Rules.... (for more Infos look at the "Damned Legion" Rules in the S2D BT)

Do u think or better how could we make Eternus work ?! (cool cool Model  )

Eternus can just "work" in any sub-faction. Sure he won't get the benefits unless in LotFP, but in sub-factions like HotE or Despoilers that doesn't actually matter. And his extra CP ability is just tied to being near Legionnaires/Furies, which are both decent chaff in their own respective ways. You don't even need to take him with Be'Lakor, although the 7+ revive is very nice.   

But you have to wonder if he's worth it over a Lord on Karkadrak, who can get the Mark of your choice/command traits/artefacts, is comparable in hitting power, has an inherent MW save and can give Chariots/Knights Strike First.

Edited November 3, 2022 by SpiritofHokuto

[ibel]

2 hours ago, SpiritofHokuto said:

Eternus can just "work" in any sub-faction.

What is if he go in "Legion of the First Prinze" and get in the first Round Mark of Slaanesh so he can run+charge in Turn 1, fight = maybe die and than (with Belakor) he got dropt in Round 2 in the backyard of your Oppion ?!

[SpiritofHokuto]

3 hours ago, ibel said:

What is if he go in "Legion of the First Prinze" and get in the first Round Mark of Slaanesh so he can run+charge in Turn 1, fight = maybe die and than (with Belakor) he got dropt in Round 2 in the backyard of your Oppion ?!

It's certainly a possibility, it would be an average of 28" threat range assuming a 6 on the run roll and the 3d6 charge buff. It could catch someone unawares, although it's just as likely to be stopped by screening. 

And even with Be'Lakor on the battlefield it's still only a ~58% chance of him coming back.  

Edited November 3, 2022 by SpiritofHokuto

[Lord Krungharr]

Well I'm glad to hear/see that Soul Grinders will be at least a bit better than before.  I only have 1 but it's got a Bloodthirster body for the top, so Khorne it is!  I had a Nurgley one but sold it off a few months ago darn it.  No biggie that the mind-cats aren't monsters anymore I guess; I'll still run my 2.  Gonna be hard to decide whether to go with 4x1 chariots, or 1x3+1 and get another battleline unit of some sort.  Lord on Karkadrak is nearly here in the mail, but if he buffs only 1 unit of chariots, a bigger unit would be better then. 

Allied Bloodsecrator is looking like a desirable choice w MoK units, IF they indeed get the Khorne keyword?  

[Frowny]

Have we seen the furies warscrolls? Also I'd love links to some of the new monsters. I always wanted a furies heavy Std list and now belakors legion might finally actually do that!