AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion

[Naem]

2 hours ago, Hamartia said:

A bright brass colour (Like Sigvald) with purple cloaks and shields (Brass/gold chaos star on shield) is a good look, while it is not the colour i decided on it definitly looked the part when i was experimenting for a slaanesh scheme. As a random shoutout, Phoenician Purple is a gorgeous purple.

Thanks a lot - I think this might be the right direction, but I will have to just try some models out. Fortunately I do have an extra SCE box, that I got cheaply of ebay

And I really do love the models, giving that I only have Order so far and Chaos was my first army back in 2003, I am thinking about maybe building a small Chaos force. For myself I would prefer something Tzeentchy. Never got to understand the synergy between Daemons (or Disciples in that case) and STD. I love the warrior and knights models, so I would definitely need them in my list, but can the rest be Disciples?  From what I understand you can combine quite freely, can't you? 

On the other hand the Greater Daemon of Slaanesh is one of the most beautiful models I have ever seen sooo, maybe Hedonists with STD? 

Edited February 11, 2020 by Naem

[Ellarr]

On 2/8/2020 at 4:45 AM, Cambot1231 said:

For legions of the everchosen I just wanted to confirm that you are not allowed to take any artifacts on your heros as a legion restriction. Not even those offered with malign sorcery artifacts 

Where is this confirmed?

[Utforskarn]

1 hour ago, Ellarr said:

Where is this confirmed?

I would also like to know this. I was under the impression that even though there are no artefacts specifically for host of the everchosen you could still get realmartefacts from malign sorcery if you use those rules?

[annarborhawk]

So, I proposed the following partial solution to the FAQ team (given that it would require too much to rewrite Knights of the Empty Throne as a sub-faction):

". . . . A simple way to remedy this would be to make a slight change to the “Overlords of Chaos” Battalion in the Slaves to Darkness Battletome to allow “Knights of the Empty Throne Varanguard” OR “Host of the Everchosen Varanguard” to be included in the battalion.  That way, Knights of the Empty Throne Varanguard would have access to Circles without giving them the whole Slaves to Darkness Allegiance. "

I was trying to ask for a remedy that wasn't shooting for the moon.....

[GeneralZero]

I have a big crush on the Formoroid 😉  I know he is not good (the least we can say) especially at 100 pts (hoping in summer a point drop mayber, around 80...).

So, the idea is to try to make him good playable. First: how to make them +1 to hit with ranged attaks? Same for to wound? He is by default 3+ 3+: if we can get him to 2+ (eventually RR 1) with -1 D2,  behind a block of (for example) warriors, everyone marching  ahead , could be nice...

Please help the community (= me! hahahha) to play those badass.  I'd like to play a pair of them.

Edited February 11, 2020 by GeneralZero

[Ragnar72]

I have just seen the results from hammerandbolter2020 last weekend. So maybe StD can work, there are two players under the best ten:

 

 

 

[kore5022]

Does anyone know what the list was that came 6th at heat 1?

Can't seem to find the heat 1 lists anywhere

[Ironblaze]

On 2/10/2020 at 7:47 AM, annarborhawk said:

Knights of the Empty Throne - 

Really disappointed in how this was written. I like the idea of making Varanguard heros. But they made it it's own allegiance, so you lose StD, including the Chaos Auras AND the Varanguard Circles. I mean, you're already required to lose Archaon to run it, so I'm not sure whey they felt the need for the additional handicaps.  

Then I thought, maybe that's the purpose of the Overlords of Chaos Battalion to get the circles back, but no, that entry requires "Hosts of the Everchosen Varanguard."

Maybe they'll FAQ it, but I doubt an allegiance meant for narrative games gets much attention. 

 

Looking at the Warscroll Builder and the text in the book, it looks like the Knights of the Empty Throne are a subfaction under Slaves to Darkness. The book does say "When you choose a Slaves to Darkness army, you can give them this allegiance instead of any other". You still can't access the regular Slaves command traits/artifacts (because Knights explicitly says you can only use those provided here, no letting a dozen Varanguard share the same artifact realmscape sword I guess), but you still should have access to the Circle option.

[Eldarain]

The only access to Circles for Varanguard are tied to Host of the Everchosen. Both the subfaction and battalion.

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

SO question, can Be’lakor lead a despoilers army and get the abilities listed there’s minus traits and artefacts?

i couldn’t find anything saying no in my quick flip thru, I want the experts opinion on this (I want an 18 inch undivided buff gawd dammit!)

 

[Eldarain]

I believe so as the expanded aura just requires he be the general and the rest all key off the Daemon Prince keyword.

Edited February 12, 2020 by Eldarain

[Cambot1231]

16 hours ago, Ellarr said:

Where is this confirmed?

 

14 hours ago, Utforskarn said:

I would also like to know this. I was under the impression that even though there are no artefacts specifically for host of the everchosen you could still get realmartefacts from malign sorcery if you use those rules?

My local store has been sold out of the battle tome, but according to podcasts and YouTube reviews I was under the impression that the Archaon force was barred from taking artifacts. 

[Eldarain]

Host of the Everchosen isn't barred from artifacts anywhere I can see. You'll need to bring non named characters after Archaon to hold them though.

Edited February 12, 2020 by Eldarain

[Utforskarn]

That’s what I thought as well. 
I need that sweet -3 rend on the lord on karkadrak!

Lore-wise it feels a bit wierd to have Archaon be from any other realm than the eight-points though..

[Spears]

So the reasoning behind this is that you can only take artefacts if your allegiance has artefacts. The realm rules then allow you to pick a realm artefact instead. 

Slaves to darkness the allegiance have no artefacts, they are all baked into the damned legions. So if your neither your damned legion (Host of the Everchosen) or allegiance (STD) have artefacts available to them you cannot choose realm artefacts.

I'm not 100% sure its intended but given HotE have no native artefacts it doesnt seem too far fetched that it is on purpose.

[Nicolas R.]

11 hours ago, kore5022 said:

Does anyone know what the list was that came 6th at heat 1?

Can't seem to find the heat 1 lists anywhere

https://drive.google.com/file/d/14dWASWOy9HsetcZ4xgMbwzTgygqpSEmI/view

[Slaktor]

On 2/11/2020 at 9:07 AM, Naem said:

Hey guys, I promised to paint up a unit of Warriors for a friend who is only getting started and now I am looking for a nice Slaanesh theme but without the typical pink or purple armor. Was thinking maybe bone colored armor with just a few purple elements or maybe black with purple highlights or something completely different. If you happen to have some good looking minis I would really love to see them (of course I looked threw Instagram, Pinterest and such, but didn't find quite what I was looking for =/ ) 

If you wash Lead Bealcher with Carrouburg Crimson and then highlight with silver edges you get a really nice Slaneeshi vibe. 
 

Check out one of Tyler Mengels Kairic Acolytes paint schemes on his Instagram. I think it looks great on Slaneesh armour.  

[Utforskarn]

2 hours ago, Spears said:

So the reasoning behind this is that you can only take artefacts if your allegiance has artefacts. The realm rules then allow you to pick a realm artefact instead. 

Slaves to darkness the allegiance have no artefacts, they are all baked into the damned legions. So if your neither your damned legion (Host of the Everchosen) or allegiance (STD) have artefacts available to them you cannot choose realm artefacts.

I'm not 100% sure its intended but given HotE have no native artefacts it doesnt seem too far fetched that it is on purpose.

The azyr app lets me choose a realm and pick an artifact for my host of the everchosen army. So I have assumed this to be legal, but perhaps the app is not always 100% correct?

Edited February 12, 2020 by Utforskarn

[Hannibal]

On 2/11/2020 at 12:25 AM, Andelion said:

Now for the stupid question. Apologies in advance. I'd love to add some tzeentch stuff to my army (shooting and magic) as I expand it. Is the only way to do that through allies? I see a lot of stuff about tzeentch casually adding slaves to darkness stuff into forces but I'm honestly not sure how it works.

As written by someone else you can just run everything under Tzeentch Allegiance then. Though there is some shift in battleline units. Under Tzeentch Allegiance only your Chaos Warriors count as battleline. Other generic battleline could be Pink Horrors or Chaos Marauders.

Though  there is still the possibility of getting other battleline units depending on your Tzeentch build. For example there is a host that allows Flamers as battleline. Personally I´m about to go that route: Building a Tzeentch force including StD units that has Flamers as battleline. Varanguard and Knights will be my melee units while I will choose some Sorcerers from both books.

(I do not think that this will give me the meta breaking army, it just offers all the models I really like in one army.)

22 hours ago, GeneralZero said:

I have a big crush on the Formoroid 😉  I know he is not good (the least we can say) especially at 100 pts (hoping in summer a point drop mayber, around 80...).

Honestly I never understood that kind of thinking. What will 20 pts less do for you in a 2000 pts battle? Your army won´t be in a better tier then. If something offers bad rules, no points reduction would make it "playable". And if something already is playable, it won´t increase in power by dropping some points.

I know that an argument can be made about "power to points ratio" and in that way less points seem to increase the overall "power to poijnts ratio", but this just is some theory. I would never invest in something that only became cheaper (without a rules change) if I didn´t already think it offers any kinf of usefulness.

[NJohansson]

11 minutes ago, Hannibal said:

Honestly I never understood that kind of thinking. What will 20 pts less do for you in a 2000 pts battle? Your army won´t be in a better tier then. If something offers bad rules, no points reduction would make it "playable". And if something already is playable, it won´t increase in power by dropping some points.

I know that an argument can be made about "power to points ratio" and in that way less points seem to increase the overall "power to poijnts ratio", but this just is some theory. I would never invest in something that only became cheaper (without a rules change) if I didn´t already think it offers any kinf of usefulness.

You unfortunately miss the single most important aspect - this is a point based game (if talking matched play). Due to this the single most important variable is how much does it cost. Be’lakor is one of our most powerful models - but he would be useless (as in severely over costed) if he was 1500 points. A Formoroid for 20 points per model would be the most broken thing in the game. Almost anything can be fixed (as in made playable/more balanced) by increasing/deceasing the actual point cost.

[Hannibal]

5 minutes ago, NJohansson said:

You unfortunately miss the single most important aspect - this is a point based game (if talking matched play). Due to this the single most important variable is how much does it cost. Be’lakor is one of our most powerful models - but he would be useless (as in severely over costed) if he was 1500 points. A Formoroid for 20 points per model would be the most broken thing in the game. Almost anything can be fixed (as in made playable/more balanced) by increasing/deceasing the actual point cost.

Yeah, I kew somewhat will come and point out that extreme points changes like you did. And you´re right, my topic missed, that almost everything will be good / great if the points cost is just 1 point.

But saving 20 points on a single model in a 2000 points game won´t offer you any benefits (besides the fact that you can now include THAT important battalion as well as THAT cool model), especially if it isn´t a model that´s worth to be spammed.

 

Oh, btw, I know what the term "points based game" does mean...

[GeneralZero]

41 minutes ago, Hannibal said:

But saving 20 points on a single model in a 2000 points game won´t offer you any benefits (besides the fact that you can now include THAT important battalion as well as THAT cool model), especially if it isn´t a model that´s worth to be spammed.

I think you are plain wrong. 20 less for this miniature is 20 point less for the unit. Being not good enough for its points, you can't even think of him.

But, being for example 20 points less, make a "unit" of 2 (or 2 single minis) completely thinkable of; It is 160pts and has several tricks for him. You can put this in perspective of other units. You can cover much more board (and threat several decors) , and the shooting can be more helpfull. (Far from OP I must admit). The thing is: 20 points here is just 1% of the army but several 20 points can make a unit spamable and compensate his weakness. That's it. 

And if on the whole army you can save 80/100 pts, it is another schaff unit at the end or whatever.

You're true about bad rules are always bad rules. But cost can give you some compensations...

Edited February 12, 2020 by GeneralZero

[Eldarain]

Given the Malign Sorcery expansion came afterward and doesn't repeat the requirement that your allegiance have artifacts I'm going with it being perfectly fine to select realm artifacts for HoE.

MS says after picking allegiance pick your realm. If you do so you can select artifacts from the two lists per realm.

[NJohansson]

13 hours ago, Hannibal said:

Yeah, I kew somewhat will come and point out that extreme points changes like you did. And you´re right, my topic missed, that almost everything will be good / great if the points cost is just 1 point.

But saving 20 points on a single model in a 2000 points game won´t offer you any benefits (besides the fact that you can now include THAT important battalion as well as THAT cool model), especially if it isn´t a model that´s worth to be spammed.

 

Oh, btw, I know what the term "points based game" does mean...

Sorry if I came around offensive - was not my intention. But my point still stands - if a unit is costed correctly it will be a useful tool no matter its rules. Just look at a clan rat or a Lord of change. Opposite scale of the equation  - few people would say that either unit is not good for its points. My example was purely that for 20 point the piece you said was worthless would simply become the best in the game and if you cost it correctly it will become something that people will play with since it has decent rules for a 100 points model (although I have no idea where the actual threshold should be at - but it needs to be significantly lower than now).

Edited February 13, 2020 by NJohansson
To make it clearer.

[Gistradagis]

20 hours ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

SO question, can Be’lakor lead a despoilers army and get the abilities listed there’s minus traits and artefacts?

i couldn’t find anything saying no in my quick flip thru, I want the experts opinion on this (I want an 18 inch undivided buff gawd dammit!)

 

Yes, you 100% can. It's a bit of a "waste" since you are forced to run Undivided as your General's aura with him, and can take neither Trait nor Artefact with him, as you say.

 

Well, finally did a "real" 2k points game with StD against Ossiarch and I have to say that it was what I expected, mostly. Chaos Knights feel right, although I would never run them with lances unless you're 100% sure you can get at least 3 charges with them in the game. Warriors are... bland? Unreliable? As most people comment, they need to either be more resilient or, what would be 100% better, cost a bit more and have some rend on their basic weapons. Right now you pretty much must run a unit of 15+, they are slow, deal no damage, and will nevertheless die to anything with rend.

Daemon Princes (and Be'Lakor) and Marauders did some real work, though. Even playing against Ossiarch, the Marauders on charge are just great, and the DPs are great overall for whatever you might need them. My general was a DP with the amulet artefact, meaning he had a 3+ (ignore rend), followed with a 5+ FNP. It tanked a unit of 20 mortek guards (what's this stupid unit even) and Katakros the entire game.

I ended up winning thanks to points, but I certainly saw the army's main weaknesses, and why the most prominent complain is that we are sort of a jack of all trades army, but slightly below average. While I kinda disagree with the last, it is true that you need a very solid list. An unefficient StD list will fall through extremely fast.

Edited February 13, 2020 by Gistradagis