Skreech Verminking Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 36 minutes ago, Kugane said: I was hoping to finally have a home for the warlord on brood horror, guess it’ll stay in AOS! 😂 And indeed, I think 1 of each is plenty. Quite thematic too. Yep same thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyra Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 (edited) yes scaly skin in saurus counting as normal armor now is huge. the faction is the slowest in game, sligthy faster than dwarfs only, and lowest init, so will get hit almost always before doing anything. so they were always sturdier, now they will atack last and are squishier the worst offender is the saurus heros, saving at 4+ with shield only, not even fullplate. so the only way to get to 2+ is mounting him in cold one AND paying for a one magic item only on cloak, in order to get to 2+ but being stupid. while squishy heros like elves can easily get to 2+ only paying a fullplate+shield and a barded horse, not paying for any magic item or being stupid. spears on saurus should have been swaped to other tipe of spear, trusting one is useless in saurus, since the +1 init being charged is great on elves, but 100% useless in saurus, since they will keep atacking last against 100% units in game when charged. and since normal weapon has 1 rend, u pay more for a spear to get only 1 atack per support when charged, and loose 1 rend on the 2 atacks on front row... in my opinion they should have had a normal spear allowing 1 extra row atack always without any bonus to init. or at least change his +1 init to +1 rend to make them resemble the hand weapons. temple guard halberd should have allow to figth in extra row at least like elves one. it isnt very usefull on lizardmen book, since hand weapon has similar stats while allowing shield, only having 1 str less. and they should have had fullplate,( saving at 5s if using halberd now) again a saurus beast elite being squishier than an elf dont make any sense, similar units like black guard or phoenix one are way sturdier, when they shouldnt be. and im comparing them to elves since are supposed to be squishy, wont even start comparing then to ironbreakers saving at 3 rerolling 1s + saving at 3s with shield, or saving at 4 with halberd would have make more sense to me. in general seems GW didnt thought about obsidian pasive while writting weapon rules, since it make every non hand weapon version so much worse than ussual. also a shame than every ptrodactil havent any movement shenanigans, cant move and shot, or figth and run away if im not wrong. and stones are only d3 hits. instead blasts templates like other guys pointed out, dont get the reason why cold one is worse here than in dark elf pdf, it is like if generic 2 hand weapons in some books would have 1 str instead 2. but still paying same price. dont make any sense. and in general every dinosaur feels too squishy for an armored big beast, with a carnosaur saving at 5s per example. BTW they didnt answer any stupid question. rigth now if u fail the check 1 time the unit will be stupid for the remaining of the game, making them 100% useless only for failing a ld test ( without being able to use the nerfed cold blood). it should have been clariffied to be stupid only to that turn. Edited January 23 by alyra 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrac Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 27 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said: Yep same thought It Will have some negative connotations, tho. For example, I dont think many skaven players will field Assassins when plague priests, and warlocks most of all, seem like a higher priority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Taylor Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 8 hours ago, Kugane said: We need TOW subforums for each faction! 😂 Ask in the Winter Update Topic Back to the legacy PDF - Only Skim read them so far but so far I like all the changes. Some stuff I would like to see in action but it feels a lot of stuff has been changed due to design reasons rather than it's been missed off (thinking about you Mister Slaan Mage Priest). Very excited about TOW but it's on the to do list along side a Warmaster army and getting round to finishing my Kruleboyz for 4th edition AOS! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamopower Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 (edited) 1 hour ago, alyra said: yes scaly skin in saurus counting as normal armor now is huge. the faction is the slowest in game, sligthy faster than dwarfs only, and lowest init, so will get hit almost always before doing anything. so they were always sturdier, now they will atack last and are squishier the worst offender is the saurus heros, saving at 4+ with shield only, not even fullplate. so the only way to get to 2+ is mounting him in cold one AND paying for a one magic item only on cloak, in order to get to 2+ but being stupid. while squishy heros like elves can easily get to 2+ only paying a fullplate+shield and a barded horse, not paying for any magic item or being stupid. spears on saurus should have been swaped to other tipe of spear, trusting one is useless in saurus, since the +1 init being charged is great on elves, but 100% useless in saurus, since they will keep atacking last against 100% units in game when charged. and since normal weapon has 1 rend, u pay more for a spear to get only 1 atack per support when charged, and loose 1 rend on the 2 atacks on front row... in my opinion they should have had a normal spear allowing 1 extra row atack always without any bonus to init. or at least change his +1 init to +1 rend to make them resemble the hand weapons. temple guard halberd should have allow to figth in extra row at least like elves one. it isnt very usefull on lizardmen book, since hand weapon has similar stats while allowing shield, only having 1 str less. and they should have had fullplate,( saving at 5s if using halberd now) again a saurus beast elite being squishier than an elf dont make any sense, similar units like black guard or phoenix one are way sturdier, when they shouldnt be. and im comparing them to elves since are supposed to be squishy, wont even start comparing then to ironbreakers saving at 3 rerolling 1s + saving at 3s with shield, or saving at 4 with halberd would have make more sense to me. in general seems GW didnt thought about obsidian pasive while writting weapon rules, since it make every non hand weapon version so much worse than ussual. These are all more of general "issues" than lizardmen specific. Armour saves are worse universally, 2+ armour save is very rare. On the other hand, the armour penetration side has changed as well, those 4+ saves might actually mean something more often than they used. Similarly with the spears and halberds, I'm sure chaos warriors would also like to have the elven halberds or to use shields with them. Halberds have for some reason always been bit of bad choice. At least spears now have some use as they allow the same save as hand weapons. Traditionally the second attack from saurus have been bite attack, so in many editions it was not possible to be done from the second rank, so it's bit of homage to that. And essentially, the models come with thrusting spears, that's the normal spear in ToW. Edited January 23 by Jamopower 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Kim Woof-Woof Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 (edited) Had a good read of the Daemons list. Very surprised to see the Infernal Enrapturess make an appearance, since that didn't show up until Age of Sigmar. Very pleased that Slaanesh Daemons now have proper Hatred for Khorne. Or was that a pre-existing thing in Fantasy Battles? Not in my era, it wasn't. Anyway.... Khorne is a big red Benny... Oh... no allies for Daemons? Disappointing. I'm hoping the Chaos Warriors have do have the option for Daemon allies, as my black heart is set on a blend of Slaaneshi Warriors and Daemons (and maybe even some Beasts too sometimes, if that's a valid option). Edited January 23 by Big Kim Woof-Woof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordeus Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 15 hours ago, Kronos said: I’ll add them to the same waiting list as Kurnothi, Malerion, and Dispossessed. Ok, Had another look through the PdF’s. No kroak for Lizzies and No Vermin Lord for Skaven. I’m hoping there’ll be a separate pdf in future for the Legacy Characters. We do not talk about dispossessed here anymore, they have been repossessed! Jokes aside I doubt they will have a classic dwarf army in AoS now if TOW becomes a thing and Dwarfs here get an update. Either way I am happy my stunties are back with up to date rules! Making lists in TOW is such a better experience than AoS. I've already written 5 completely different lists with what I have, when in AoS, as CoS, I pretty much had only one or two options. I could write a dozen without much effort just by playing around with the hero loadouts and composition. Fun times! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamopower Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 30 minutes ago, Big Kim Woof-Woof said: Had a good read of the Daemons list. Very surprised to see the Infernal Enrapturess make an appearance, since that didn't show up until Age of Sigmar. Very pleased that Slaanesh Daemons now have proper Hatred for Khorne. Or was that a pre-existing thing in Fantasy Battles? Not in my era, it wasn't. Anyway.... Khorne is a big red Benny... Oh... no allies for Daemons? Disappointing. I'm hoping the Chaos Warriors have do have the option for Daemon allies, as my black heart is set on a blend of Slaaneshi Warriors and Daemons (and maybe even some Beasts too sometimes, if that's a valid option). As the legacy armies are not "official" there likely isn't going to be any mentions on them in the core rules, but of course that is easily house ruled or put into a tournament package to allow it. I for sure will suggest my friends to test an unit of daemons with my beastmen. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 10 minutes ago, Mordeus said: Either way I am happy my stunties are back with up to date rules! Me too! I can't stop forging runic weapons, even if they are a joke. I can't return to AoS list-building without feeling sad. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordeus Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Just now, Beliman said: Me too! I can't stop forging runic weapons, even if they are a joke. I can't return to AoS list-building without feeling sad. Same here, its crazy how quickly I've given up on the list building part of AoS. I still like the game but its definitely lost some flavor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarakUrbaz Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 5 minutes ago, Jamopower said: As the legacy armies are not "official" there likely isn't going to be any mentions on them in the core rules, but of course that is easily house ruled or put into a tournament package to allow it. I for sure will suggest my friends to test an unit of daemons with my beastmen. An obvious example here is how Dwarfs have Hatred (Orcs and Goblins), when in the old times they had Hatred (Orcs and Goblins, Skaven). Personally if I ever start a Dawi army and play a Skaven player I'd try to houserule it that they get their old Hatred back (though I dunno about the ettiquette of bringing back a rule that gives a solid advantage against a certain faction). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrac Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 (edited) Ok, I already got my first list: -Warlord with heavy armour, shield, talisman of protection (5+) (150) -Warlock level 2 with pistol and condenser (161) -Warlock engineer level 1 with death globe (100) -Chieftain with standard bearer, halberd, grand banner of superiority (128) -20 stormvermins with GM and Doom-Flayer -30 clanrats with GM spears, shields, and a ratling gun (262) -30 clanrats with GM shields, and a warpfire thrower (237) -26 clanrats with GM, shields, and a warpfire thrower (217) -6 jezzails (114) -4 globadiers (40) -Doomwheel (145) -Warp Lightning Cannon (110) -10 giant rats (30) -10 giant rats (30) Sadly I can't spam more doomwheels, ratling guns, wlcs, and stormvermin because I don't have more, lol. Was planning to buy more for this year's project, but now I'm holding into them until I see what GW does in 4th ed of AoS. But meanwhile I think I can do good on TOW? Maybe I'll drop one or two units of clanrats in favour of rat ogres or hell pits, of which I do have more. There's already a huge community of TOW players in Spain, so I'll probably play more TOW because I enjoy the most the bigger customisation options of rules in TOW. Edited January 23 by Garrac 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Kim Woof-Woof Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 14 minutes ago, Jamopower said: As the legacy armies are not "official" there likely isn't going to be any mentions on them in the core rules, but of course that is easily house ruled or put into a tournament package to allow it. I for sure will suggest my friends to test an unit of daemons with my beastmen. Yeah, I had a feeling that there might not be a lot of crossover between the Core armies and the Legacy ones. But then I noticed that the Vampire Counts can ally with Tomb Kings, so obviously it's not a strict rule. Whatever. My group won't mind if I twizzle around with the rules. Like you say, House Rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyra Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 LOL almost 100 rats. someone loves them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabush Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 9 minutes ago, alyra said: LOL almost 100 rats. someone loves them You should've seen the Skaven-lists in 8th ed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrac Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 17 minutes ago, alyra said: LOL almost 100 rats. someone loves them Bruh, this isn't even half of what I had to field on 8th 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamopower Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 (edited) Speaking of model numbers, I really like the potential for smaller point sizes. The minimum sizes are small and units of 12 can already get full rank bonuses. Also you get full options in 1500 points and the percentages make the list building much more flexible. I have a feeling that I will be playing more ~1500 than 2000 point games as our club night is on Thursday evenings and there is thus a time constraint present. Edited January 23 by Jamopower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 I am here to share a rumour/ leaked info that I saw moving on a few of my WhatsApp groups. Don't kill the messenger (I am rewording/ translating, not a copy-pasted message): Quote They start saying the TOW team is just 4 members, compared with the 20+ from 40k, 16-18 from AoS or 7 from Kill Team, to give context. Seems the project was initially thought to be only for humans. The three Emperors from the Empire, Kislev and Bretonnia. Just 5 armies. That initial idea wasn't liked and they moved into what we currently have, so Khemri was more or less "rushed". The main idea is to free the old metal stock. My thoughts: This seems to match with the rumours that I heard previously about the project changing drastically midway, and also fits with the fact that we started seeing Kislev content and that Bretonnia has more stuff than Khemri + that O&G has less new material than Khemri. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyra Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 5 minutes ago, Ejecutor said: I am here to share a rumour/ leaked info that I saw moving on a few of my WhatsApp groups. Don't kill the messenger (I am rewording/ translating, not a copy-pasted message): My thoughts: This seems to match with the rumours that I heard previously about the project changing drastically midway, and also fits with the fact that we started seeing Kislev content and that Bretonnia has more stuff than Khemri + that O&G has less new material than Khemri. What do you think? what do i think???? i allready think that deleding half of the most iconic armies is one of the biggest failures in the warhammer history, so if GW would have released a game with only humans.... i wouldnt have even bother on open his articles, the same i do with kill team, horus heregy etc. But if this is true..... may means that we have a really slim hope of GW changing his mind and re supporting the legacy armyes in the far far future???? a skink can only keep dreaming 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorticulusTGA Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 4 minutes ago, Ejecutor said: What do you think? Doesn't make any sense. The project was always going to be "more than just humans factions" : we had Orcs and Khemri arts since the very early developments (alongside Bret and Empire), even Khemri Memes when the game was first announced. Khemri can't have been "rushed" : they have more works put into them than Bret in terms of rescuptling (3rd vulture, inside of the Soul Casket, etc.) and Orcs for plastic ; the big dragon was started at least 2-3 years ago according to its sculptor on Instagram (the one who disliked the Sand Vulture). The Kislev early contents is easily explained by the Total War release. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clan's Cynic Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 (edited) Yeah, it just reads like another "My dad works for Games Workshop and says TOW is rushed, the end is nigh!" piece of bait like we've been getting since Day 1 of it being announced. Edited January 23 by Clan's Cynic 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrac Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Ejecutor said: I am here to share a rumour/ leaked info that I saw moving on a few of my WhatsApp groups. Don't kill the messenger (I am rewording/ translating, not a copy-pasted message): My thoughts: This seems to match with the rumours that I heard previously about the project changing drastically midway, and also fits with the fact that we started seeing Kislev content and that Bretonnia has more stuff than Khemri + that O&G has less new material than Khemri. What do you think? Well, I'd be impressed. Even the legacy pdfs show a lot of work behind, and I couldn't even dare to imagine doing all of what they've done fluffwise, rulewise, etc with just me and 3 other mfers. Reading the legacy pdfs what I find is that the person who wrote "DONT USE AGE OF SIGMAR MINIATURES" bit and the person who wrote the rest are two diferent people alltogether, or the same guy forced to write ****** because he had a gun on his backhead. I don't doubt that if it were for TOW team we would have had full support to everything. I mean, when you read the arcane journals, do you really think the same devs would say "No, warriors of chaos can't use demons"? Doesn't fit. I think TOW has shown a lot of dedication, passion and work, and the fact this could have been done by just 4 guys is bonkers. Also, the fact that this is being worked upon by 4 guys (hypothetically) means that we're not going to get a lot of updates for the near future, lol Edited January 23 by Garrac 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollow Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 (edited) 11 minutes ago, alyra said: what do i think???? i allready think that deleding half of the most iconic armies is one of the biggest failures in the warhammer history So deleted that they have rules and huge ranges of new models! If only Lizardmen had a complete new range of updated plastic models that can be used. Oh wait, they literally do. Edited January 23 by Hollow 5 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freypal Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 1 hour ago, Mordeus said: We do not talk about dispossessed here anymore, they have been repossessed! Jokes aside I doubt they will have a classic dwarf army in AoS now if TOW becomes a thing and Dwarfs here get an update. Either way I am happy my stunties are back with up to date rules! Making lists in TOW is such a better experience than AoS. I've already written 5 completely different lists with what I have, when in AoS, as CoS, I pretty much had only one or two options. I could write a dozen without much effort just by playing around with the hero loadouts and composition. Fun times! I've been finding I'm accepting AoS more for what it is since diving into ToW. Dwarfs have always been my go to and they were my main fantasy army back when I played in 6th edition. I've been trying to find that same love for dwarfs in AoS since starting it but I just couldn't. I really like the fyreslayers but always craved the classic look and whilst the Dispossessed are cool, they've never been enough to standalone. Now I have my classic Dwarf army/fix back, I can enjoy what AoS "does" offer rather than focus on what it "doesn't" offer. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrac Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 (edited) Someone on the skavendom already found out that the Death Globe isn't limited to 1 per army, and that master moulders can wear 25 points of magic objects... and you can put them on basic 30 points giant rats units... Edited January 23 by Garrac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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