Warhammer - The Old World

[Ejecutor]

3 minutes ago, Hollow said:

The Old World is literally a fantasy pseudohistorical take on the real world though. 😅 It's what the setting is. I think there is a pretty significant cross-over between Warhammer fantasy rank n flank and historical wargamers. Combined with the data sets from Creative Assmebly and the Total War franchise, I think the popularity of Kislev and Grand Cathay cannot be denied. 

Hopefully ToW continues to do well and over the coming years we get to not only explore Kislev, Cathay, Moot and Araby, but stuff like the Zamesi Tribes, Hobgobla-khans, The Kingon of Ind, The Hinterlands of Khuresh and the various Pirate Coasts. That would be cool. 

Imo if the game expends the factions it would be Kislev, Cathay, Estalia and Tilea. As those are the factions with their own entry on the rules book.

[Beliman]

Waiting for this dudes...

[JerekKruger]

3 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Waiting for this dudes...

I now fully expect to see them when the dwarves are announced.

[Freypal]

3 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Waiting for this dudes...

Stunning 😍

[Hollow]

33 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

Estalia and Tilea

For sure... Would love to see them explored. There's so much interesting potential in ToW. 

[Noserenda]

I'd be surprised by too many human armies, they long ago discovered humans don't sell anywhere near as well as everyone else, so I'd expect a similar low effort drop feed for their releases in a couple of years starting with a Merc/ally focused list again.

I don't think OW is going to fail, but I do despair that resources are wasted on departmental rivalries instead of getting us as many great, Non redundant models as possible, paying over the odds for classic but dated minis is what MTO is great for rather than using up SKUs and resources long term for dust storage.

And then my worry is too many static kit sales means less for future armies.

I guess we will see.

(Also, selling out is a frakkin worthless metric guys, they might have only made 3 copies Im sure it's popular but shouting "it sold out!" Like it means anything is silly, especially when GW is struggling to make anything right now)

[Bosskelot]

3 hours ago, JerekKruger said:

Wayland Games by any chance?

Games Workshop lol

Even the two local GW stores only got half of their actual orders in.

This is not LGS's overselling. Across the UK and Continental Europe everyone is reporting critically low actual allocations and a few of them have stated that word is from GW themselves is that it is, yet again, a problem with picking.

Combine that with a company that for the past 12-15 years has been unable to understand its own product and doesn't get who is buying it and why, leading to insanely wrong numbers of product actually being produced and you get this shitshow of a launch.

The amount of hype and excitement over the game is actually crazy and GW have just not only managed to completely misjudge that but seem to have also botched its distribution too.

[Goatforce]

Any word about whether anything else has come out about Old World today other than the Greenskin announce?

[Tonhel]

30 minutes ago, Noserenda said:

I'd be surprised by too many human armies, they long ago discovered humans don't sell anywhere near as well as everyone else, so I'd expect a similar low effort drop feed for their releases in a couple of years starting with a Merc/ally focused list again.

I don't think OW is going to fail, but I do despair that resources are wasted on departmental rivalries instead of getting us as many great, Non redundant models as possible, paying over the odds for classic but dated minis is what MTO is great for rather than using up SKUs and resources long term for dust storage.

And then my worry is too many static kit sales means less for future armies.

I guess we will see.

(Also, selling out is a frakkin worthless metric guys, they might have only made 3 copies Im sure it's popular but shouting "it sold out!" Like it means anything is silly, especially when GW is struggling to make anything right now)

No, selling out is not a worthless metric at all. GW made x amount of mini's / books enough to recoup the investment and make a profit. The amount of mini's / books can be low or high, but they will certainly made enough to recoup the initial investment. So selling out in less than 24 hours is great for GW and it wasn't me. I signed in 20 minutes before pre-order, than waited a hour in the que and finally managed to buy zero new mini's as everything was sold out... . So when I can finally buy the Bretonnians they can have my money.

It seems the vastly underestimated those 30+ to 40+ old year gamers (which includes me) that wanted Warhammer back. I enjoyed AoS, but now with Warhammer back, the only thing AoS has to offer compared to TOW is beautiful / newer mini's and that's not enough for me. I am more excited about the WoC armylist included in Ravening hordes than my AoS StD, MoN and BoK battletomes combined. Our small group of 5 has 2 players that never played before AoS, so we will probably keep playing AoS together with TOW, but for me I will finish my StD army, but interested in AoS is at an all time low. Hopefully 4th can relight the flame.

 

[Hollow]

48 minutes ago, Noserenda said:

Like it means anything is silly, especially when GW is struggling to make anything right now

Which is demonstrably not the case. You don't generate a quarter of a billion pounds in revenue over 6 months by not making anything. 

 

48 minutes ago, Noserenda said:

I'd be surprised by too many human armies, they long ago discovered humans don't sell anywhere near as well as everyone else

 

No they didn't. Empire was always one of the biggest selling factions in Fantasy, The Imperium of man (and it's multiple human-based subfactions) are 40k biggest selling "faction" and Marines are literally the biggest selling product liine and they are... super humans. Every bit of information we have and any metric we have access to shows that human-based factions were, are and will continue to be the main profit drivers for all of GW games. Because they sell more than everyone else. 

 

48 minutes ago, Noserenda said:

I'd expect a similar low effort drop feed for their releases in a couple of years

You're definition of "low" effort seems to be pretty far removed from realities definition of it. There has been plenty showing the care, work and attention put into the system and the faction releases. The O+G release has over 20 kits returning. Which is more than some other companies aspire to release in an entire year for their entire games. 

 

48 minutes ago, Noserenda said:

paying over the odds

 

In relation to what? The odds are what the market can bare. Basic economics. The fact the line has sold out means that the odds... are very much in GW favour. 

Edited January 20 by Hollow

[Asbestress]

1 hour ago, Beliman said:

Waiting for this dudes...

Maybe we could get some unreleased Warhammer Forge minis down the line?

Dwarf airship would be incredible. And maybe the Fimir Matriarch/Dirach for WoC? Hope the files/masters still exist.

Spoiler

 

Edited January 20 by Asbestress

[Bosskelot]

To go back to discussion about old models, I think a lot of people really misjudge the actual appeal about many of these kits.

It's often not about nostalgia at all, but just simply; they're far more simple to build, and far easier to paint down to less details and more static poses leading to less of the model being "exposed" to a persons vision. You could paint 10 of the old chaos warriors in about half the time it takes to paint 10 of the newer ones, and that's not even much of a crazy detailed newer kit.

Do you know how absolutely mindnumbing it is trying to paint a Lumineth army compared to a High Elf one? And that's even with the Lumineth requiring less models. Painting 20 wardens made me want to kill myself. Painting 10 dawnriders made me wish for catastrophic climate change to end our species. Gorgeous models but agony to paint.

Discussion about models online is often very focused around and led by the instagram and youtube painter community who have zero issues with a model being piled down with detail and requiring 50 different paints; in fact they have a financial incentive for that to be the case because it means longer, more in-depth videos and more people wanting to watch tutorials on how to paint. The vast majority of people who actually buy and play with these models cannot paint well or have the time to spend ungodly amounts of hours to paint well. A simpler model that can be assembled and painted to a reasonable standard in a sensible timeframe? That is INCREDIBLY appealing.

More static poses also just work well for TOW/WHFB. The sight of disciplined ranks of soliders all marching forward in unison is a very powerful visual. There's a reason Fantasy armies hit so much better than basically any 40k or AOS army when you look at them displayed and all arrayed up.

[Hollow]

3 minutes ago, Bosskelot said:

It's often not about nostalgia at all, but just simply; they're far more simple to build, and far easier to paint down to less details and more static poses leading to less of the model being "exposed" to a persons vision

I remember when I returned to purchasing 40k after several years and bought myself new sisters. I made the massive mistake of approaching the build as I had done with Warhammer minis in the distant past. Clipping all the bits off the sprue (Heads, torsos, weapons in different tubs) Only to come to the realisation that building newer models was a completely different experience. They were difficult to build and actually required following the instructions pretty carefully. 

[Sception]

Despite weather related shipping delays, my preorder haul arrived in time for release day.  Snakes, Bowshabti, Tomb Guard, and reference cards.  No physical books, I opted for the epubs, and after an hour or so trying different ereaders I finally found one that displays them properly, so am happy there.

Sadly can't start assembly yet, as I'm still waiting for third party bases & unit trays to arrive.  Speaking of bases, I can finally answer one of the questions I've been asking for a while: do the official bases actually match the official base sizes?  This is a relevant question because the old bases did not always match their official sizes, particularly the cavalry and chariot bases.

Well, at least for the models I ordered, these are indeed the old bases.  That means the 25mm squares and 40mm squares are close enough to accurate, ever so slightly small but within 1mm of the correct dimensions, but the charriot is ~significantly~ off.  About the right length at within 1mm of 100mm long, but only about 47.5mm wide.  That's enough narrower than it should be that you can look at it and just see that it's not 1x2 proportions.  if you run a unit of 8 tomb kings chariots 4x2 - a large unit to be sure but not unreasonably so for the chariot-heavy nobles variant list - then that unit will be a full centimeter narrower than their official width if you put them on the official bases.

It's not a huge deal either way, the difference isn't so much that I think official events would care, but it matters a lot for movement trays, especially ordering 3rd party trays.  If you're making your own trays you can just measure the width of the actual bases and cut your tray to custom size, but when ordering trays you'll need to account for the discrepancy if you want everything to sit flush.  Alternatively, if you use third party or scratch built bases that are made to the official base size, they'll be too wide to fit a unit tray that is made to fit flush to the first party chariot bases.

...

I don't have anything on the 25 x 50mm cavalry bases, but those were also narrower than stated in the past, closer to 23.5, so there will likely be the same issues with unit trays there.

[Jefferson Skarsnik]

23 minutes ago, Bosskelot said:

Do you know how absolutely mindnumbing it is trying to paint a Lumineth army compared to a High Elf one? And that's even with the Lumineth requiring less models. Painting 20 wardens made me want to kill myself. Painting 10 dawnriders made me wish for catastrophic climate change to end our species. Gorgeous models but agony to paint.

I painted up a test scheme Swordmaster in the week and couldn't believe how easy it was compared to the wardens and sentinels I've done. I just...painted some straight lines for the armour trim then painted some silver rectangles for the armour, gryph charger grey and it was like 70% done. The instances of "****** I spilled over into an intricate detail I'd already painstakingly finished" were almost 0.

The Lumineth certainly made me feel well-prepared for the High Elves though, it's like spending a few months at a higher belt in martial arts and belatedly realising you can smash white belts now

Totally agree about the Instagram culture/paint job dysphoria as well, nothing makes me happier than seeing someone who's good at getting through lots of models with nice paint jobs and good colour schemes but to a realistic, sustainable tabletop standard. I think Vince Venturella's very pragmatic outlook on this stuff has always been very helpful

[Sception]

A word on the epubs, for anyone else who got those.  GW uses some pretty wonky formatting on the already wonky epub3 file type and a lot of readers don't handle it well.

Apple users shouldn't have any issues, as the default books app works fine.

On windows PC, GW recommends Azardi, and that's the only reader that's been able to work for GW epubs for me on windows since the old redium extension for chrome went chrome-os exclusive.  Azardi itself is a bit of a pain to find these days as most of the default distributions for it seem to be defunct.  I was able to get it here: https://www.softpedia.com/get/Others/E-Book/Azardi-eReader.shtml

Scratch that.  For both Windows and Linux PC, use Thorium.

For Android Users, Google Play Books works, except it has a file size maximum of 100mb, which isn't enough for the big rulebook, and most other android ereaders can't handle GW's epubs at all.  The one I know that does work is Colibrio Reader, so use that.

Edited January 20 by Sception

[Flippy]

1 hour ago, Bosskelot said:

To go back to discussion about old models, I think a lot of people really misjudge the actual appeal about many of these kits.

It's often not about nostalgia at all, but just simply; they're far more simple to build, and far easier to paint down to less details and more static poses leading to less of the model being "exposed" to a persons vision. rd in a sensible timeframe? That is INCREDIBLY appealing.

[…]

I would give you a hundred additional positive reactions for this comment if I could.

[Hollow]

54 minutes ago, Sception said:

A word on the epubs, for anyone else who got those.  GW uses some pretty wonky formatting on the already wonky epub3 file type and a lot of readers don't handle it well.

Apple users shouldn't have any issues, as the default books app works fine.

On windows PC, GW recommends Azardi, and that's the only reader that's been able to work for GW epubs for me on windows since the old redium extension for chrome went chrome-os exclusive.  Azardi itself is a bit of a pain to find these days as most of the default distributions for it seem to be defunct.  I was able to get it here: https://www.softpedia.com/get/Others/E-Book/Azardi-eReader.shtml

For Android Users, Google Play Books works, except it has a file size maximum of 100mb, which isn't enough for the big rulebook, and most other android ereaders can't handle GW's epubs at all.  The one I know that does work is Colibrio Reader, so use that.

I'd recommend converting the epub files into PDFs. So much easier. 

[JerekKruger]

3 hours ago, Bosskelot said:

Games Workshop lol

Even the two local GW stores only got half of their actual orders in.

This is not LGS's overselling. Across the UK and Continental Europe everyone is reporting critically low actual allocations and a few of them have stated that word is from GW themselves is that it is, yet again, a problem with picking.

Combine that with a company that for the past 12-15 years has been unable to understand its own product and doesn't get who is buying it and why, leading to insanely wrong numbers of product actually being produced and you get this shitshow of a launch.

The amount of hype and excitement over the game is actually crazy and GW have just not only managed to completely misjudge that but seem to have also botched its distribution too.

Oh wow, that does surprise me. I've always kinda assumed if you get an order in with GW you will get it on time.

Well hopefully this issue will make GW raise TOW is more popular than they expected, and they'll plough a bit more resources into it.

[Ejecutor]

5 minutes ago, JerekKruger said:

Oh wow, that does surprise me. I've always kinda assumed if you get an order in with GW you will get it on time.

Well hopefully this issue will make GW raise TOW is more popular than they expected, and they'll plough a bit more resources into it.

My experience so far is that the same box usually arrives later from GW than when purchasing it from a third-party store.

[RyantheFett]

I am not saying I have the PDFs/EBUPs, but I'm not saying I don't. Also not saying people can message me for a link for the five books (no Legacy armies tho) or just message me about how cool the kroot stuff are and Tau now having melee

............ if there is anything wrong with this message just let me know so I can delete it!!!

Edited January 20 by RyantheFett

[JerekKruger]

38 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

My experience so far is that the same box usually arrives later from GW than when purchasing it from a third-party store.

Yeah sorry, what I meant is when it comes to FOMO stuff, if you get an order in with GW you'll get it. If you order from a third party seller there's a chance it will end up cancelled.

Agreed that GW often ends up being a day or two later than most third party stores.

[Sception]

1 hour ago, Hollow said:

I'd recommend converting the epub files into PDFs. So much easier. 

What do you use for that?  Last time I tried, I found the converters I used couldn't handle GW epubs, always ended up with messed up formatting.  Haven't tried in a long while, though.

[Gareth 🍄]

Drew a larger crowd than the launch of 10th edition 40K apparently.

[Bosskelot]

To be completely fair the 10th ed event was ticketed.