Warhammer - The Old World

[The Lost Sigmarite]

1 hour ago, Clan's Cynic said:

Forge World haven't released a full new unit or vehicle in resin since the Dark Angels stuff over three years ago.

Um akshually... they did a number of units and some big scenery for LoTR since then. 

43 minutes ago, Baron Klatz said:

No but there’s speculation they’re upgrades for the Priests and chariot riders.

 Which ones ? There's a lot of priests and chariots in Warhammer Fantasy. 

Tbf, this is sort of logical. People wanted the old sculpts back, GW brings them back, but with upgrade sprues just like 30k does - same-ish result, less effort. I'm more willing to trust Hastings and Lady Atia on this one - they're right more often than not - and the new plastic boyz is a good direction. GW finally has learned that the basic troops are the ones that require good quality plastic first and foremost ! Could this mean High Elves will finally get spearmen/archers/silver helms that don't look like they come from antediluvean times ? 

Also btw, about the old kits being... well old and so, a bit dated. They only appear dated compared to newer GW kits. 

Remember kings, a GW kit from the 2000s will always look better than whatever Mantic churns out in 2023 ! Until next time for more Warhammer facts ! 

Edited April 15, 2023 by The Lost Sigmarite

[Baron Klatz]

11 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

Which ones ? There's a lot of priests and chariots in Warhammer Fantasy. 

Tomb Kings. They’re the only upgrade sprues seen so far besides Brets.  

11 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

Um akshually... they did a number of units and some big scenery for LoTR since then. 

Yeah, I don’t think zeroing on Horus Heresy as the only example is a good strategy now that it’s gotten bigger. Bloodbowl, Necromunda and LotR are all still wading through resin releases and TOW likely will too until it can prove itself going forward like HH did.(but that’s still easily a decade off)

People have also pointed out the LotR system of a few core stable releases but the rest in rotations might be how they go about it too with keeping the game small on storage but have enough oop stuff cycle back in to pad out armies from time to time.

[Gareth 🍄]

3 hours ago, Baron Klatz said:

• New Orc boys, snotling pump wagon, and plastic wyvern models

Well that has me pretty hyped now! 

[The Lost Sigmarite]

Wouldn't you be more pumped up if there's new snotling wagons ? 

[Hollow]

Snotling pump wagon! 🤩

As a small note, I do like the more old-school scenery aesthetic used in the Bretonnia photos. The flocked grass table, textured rocks and old-school trees. 

[Beliman]

The orc boarboyz are awesome! Really good sculpts.

Anyone know what O&G characters were around during The Old World? 

Btw, pretty sure that after release, we are going to see a lot of new units or even armies. I'm curious if we will see something from Chaos Dwarfs or Vampire Coast in a near future...

Edited April 16, 2023 by Beliman

[Overread]

5 hours ago, Celestial Rose said:

I want the tightly packed units, so movement tray would just make them look like full of gaps. Ether in the unit, or on the side. 
the unit profile and basing is a huge part of the hobby for me, so it’s a huge thing to suddenly change.
And if they had said it earlier I would have been more willing, but after investing in the return of the game it hit me hard.

 

just sad now.  

I totally get that, at the same time I'd be tempted to wait and see how it really looks on the tabletop. The bigger bases might not make a vast difference to the rank and file appearance. Or at least once you get used to it it might not appear vastly different. 

Esp when many sculpts were already pretty tricky to properly position super close up. 

But yeah there's a lot of give and take with Old World coming back and its certainly not the most shining example of a product removal and roll out and management. Personally I hope that this period without it just proves to be a hiccup and that in 5-10 years we've awesome games of AoS and Old World rocking on having fun on the tabletops 

 

[Noserenda]

I cant imagine after the abject failures of Warhammer forge they would try for resin fantasy ranges again surely? 

To clarify, the Warhammer forge stuff was mostly lovely, just so expensive it barely sold which is why it never went anywhere, just not enough pull compared to Guard or space marines.

They might have altered plans since the plastic waves for HH have seemingly done well, im certainly hoping we get decent plastic releases, even if they are a bit slow. Wolf riders would be a weird choice given how much nicer the new ones are.

[Baron Klatz]

5 hours ago, Noserenda said:

They might have altered plans since the plastic waves for HH have seemingly done well, im certainly hoping we get decent plastic releases, even if they are a bit slow. Wolf riders would be a weird choice given how much nicer the new ones are.

I’d say just to lower expectations and prepare for more “compromises”. Just look at how different an atmosphere it is now compared to a month ago when suggesting the renders were upgrade sprues instead of all new full kits got you attacked from every angle. Now people are A-okay with it being old stuff + upgrades(okay there’s some on heavy copium saying all the old models are just placeholders for big new plastic reveals for entire range refreshes which are quite sad) 

If the Forge World team can only do so much and they might have to make adjustments so people can try to proxy AoS stuff but since they’re not in communication with the AoS team they have to use and build around what they have on hand(old wolf riders) as they can’t control or guarantee what happens to the AoS Snarlfangs such as pricings, basings or even rotations.

On a related note, Honest Wargamer is saying  his “insider” says that 25’s are moving up to 30’s. Could be how TOW plans going forward with their bigger troops(greenskins maybe?)

Edited April 16, 2023 by Baron Klatz

[Hollow]

I can't help but recall this line from the January update on Warhammer Community.

Rob: We’ve hinted at the unprecedented amount of work that has gone into this new game and its setting.

I still think (and hope) that ToW has a lot more to offer. 

[RandyRyan]

Has anyone mentioned the Knights being in the classic Lance formation? Oh, the 5th Ed nostalgia…

 

[Blueraven84]

Doesn't look good if Rob knows a source in dev team or something (around 55:20 timestamp)... tldr bigger bases are going 30mm not 32mm, does not bode well for my plans to use aos models with round matching bases in tow.

 

 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

29 minutes ago, Blueraven84 said:

Doesn't look good if Rob knows a source in dev team or something (around 55:20 timestamp)... tldr bigger bases are going 30mm not 32mm, does not bode well for my plans to use aos models with round matching bases in tow.

 

 

That really sucks. A completely unnecessary barrier to entry.

[OG SCE]

My first reaction to these old models was disappointment, but as mentioned above the Brets, for example, will be easily proxied with cheaper, better alternatives.  It made me wonder: Has GW decided to reduce the magnitude of its initial vision for TOW? There could be a number of reasons for this such as COVID, economic doom and gloom, or perhaps HH's performance was less than hoped for.  Were GW hamstrung by their decision to announce the project so early?  

On the positive side, perhaps GW will decide to reprint sprues from starter kits. For example, The Brets from 5th edition, Dwarfs and Night Goblins from 7th etc.   These would make good start collecting boxes.   I remember they reprinted 40K 3rd edition model last year.   So, it could happen.

 

[OG SCE]

Can anyone ID these greenskins?  Not sure whether they are Orcs or Gobbos

[Beliman]

25 minutes ago, OG SCE said:

Can anyone ID these greenskins?  Not sure whether they are Orcs or Gobbos

Old goblins riding old woolly wolfs

[silverstu]

I read a few of Hastings comments -these being "upgrade sprues" are what he thinks, not what he has heard is my reading of it. He says this based on there being no new bodies in the pics, I'm not so sure and will wait and see. 

The new base sizes aren't a problem really as I can get around that with movement trays - no gaps between models just fill in the edges as longs the movement tray footprint matches the official base size.But if I play it will probably be with mates so not a worry really. 

Hopefully there is little resin, not a fan.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

14 minutes ago, silverstu said:

I read a few of Hastings comments -these being "upgrade sprues" are what he thinks, not what he has heard is my reading of it. He says this based on there being no new bodies in the pics, I'm not so sure and will wait and see. 

The new base sizes aren't a problem really as I can get around that with movement trays - no gaps between models just fill in the edges as longs the movement tray footprint matches the official base size.But if I play it will probably be with mates so not a worry really. 

Hopefully there is little resin, not a fan.

I honestly struggle to imagine what Tomb Kings kit those weapons would upgrade. Not the snake, warsphinx or Tomb Guard kits, probably. Those still look good. There are no plastic character kits to upgrade, either.

I think it's more likely that we will see a few new plastic character kits out of those renders. I think new basic skeletons might also be in the cards. And I hope we won't have to deal with the old skeletons horses in the future.

[Clan's Cynic]

9 hours ago, Baron Klatz said:

I’d say just to lower expectations and prepare for more “compromises”. Just look at how different an atmosphere it is now compared to a month ago when suggesting the renders were upgrade sprues instead of all new full kits got you attacked from every angle. Now people are A-okay with it being old stuff + upgrades(okay there’s some on heavy copium saying all the old models are just placeholders for big new plastic reveals for entire range refreshes which are quite sad) 

Was there anybody being attacked for claiming they'd just be upgrade sprues here? I've seen none of that, but I have seen plenty of sourgrapes from people who flipped from, "hahahaha I bet it won't be the WHFB you loved, it'll be on rounds!" to "hahahahaha I bet it will all be expensive resin!" to "hahahahahaha GW will make you rebuy your armies and and none will play!" and now to "hahahahaha none wants old models, none will play!"

Most WHFB players I know are so deeply cynical about GW at this point - with good reason - that they're more likely to assume the worst case scenario than huff copeium.

The only people I see on heavy copeium are a small sect of AoS players who're desperate for it to fail.

Edited April 16, 2023 by Clan's Cynic

[Tonhel]

I am just happy that GW is bringing back Warhammer. If Warhammer (the old world) only receive the same support as LotR I am perfectly fine with it. Afterall 40K and AoS are now GW flagships.

I will certainly buy the starterset and all the armybooks, but miniature wise. I have a 3D printer and I am subscribed to Last Sword Miniatures, Highland miniatures, Avatars of War and a couple of others. I think it will not be easy for GW to compete with those 3D sculptors that have a patreon/tribe and those patreons can release a complete army in a couple of months.

It's much harder to use these printed miniatures with AoS than it will be for Warhammer. Miniature wise I have now the Empire knights (Last Sword Miniatures)that I always wanted when I played Warhammer before the End Times.

So normally AoS should make more money that Warhammer the old world. 

 

Edited April 16, 2023 by Tonhel

[Noserenda]

I think GW are setting it up to fail, just the needless veil of secrecy has meant people built their own versions in their heads and now GW has to compete with visions that dont have to worry about the physical logistics of release. They havent helped themselves with some of the articles though...

[Noserenda]

9 hours ago, Baron Klatz said:

 

If the Forge World team can only do so much and they might have to make adjustments so people can try to proxy AoS stuff but since they’re not in communication with the AoS team they have to use and build around what they have on hand(old wolf riders) as they can’t control or guarantee what happens to the AoS Snarlfangs such as pricings, basings or even rotations.

 

My point on them being an odd choice was that they obviously have limited resources and production time, why waste some of it on an extremely dated kit that has a modern alternative? Just include them in the rules, sell bases separately and show some of them in the studio army. Worrying about pricings and such is well beyond the scope of the rules studios anyway.

[The Lost Sigmarite]

1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I think it's more likely that we will see a few new plastic character kits out of those renders. I think new basic skeletons might also be in the cards. And I hope we won't have to deal with the old skeletons horses in the future.

Maybe, maybe it's a upgrade sprue to turn the now OOP Vampire Counts skeletons into TK ones. But that would be a really big stretch. You would need to redo all the weapons, shields, some heads, the command... It would be less convoluted to just do new TK skeletons. 
And yes the old skeleton horses need to go. 

1 hour ago, Clan's Cynic said:

Was there anybody being attacked for claiming they'd just be upgrade sprues here? I've seen none of that, but I have seen plenty of sourgrapes from people who flipped from, "hahahaha I bet it won't be the WHFB you loved, it'll be on rounds!" to "hahahahaha I bet it will all be expensive resin!" to "hahahahahaha GW will make you rebuy your armies and and none will play!" and now to "hahahahaha none wants old models, none will play!"

The only people I see on heavy copeium are a small sect of AoS players who're desperate for it to fail.

What being called "Age of Sh**mar players" for 8 years does to mfs. Don't act like you didn't see it coming. The WHFB community always treated AoS players badly, don't expect the same AoS players to throw you flowers now that Old World is around the corner. Of course they're gonna feel scorned and resented.

Maybe if the way bigger sect of WHFB players that hate AoS for a living hadn't been a bunch of toxic gatekeepers since 2015, we wouldn't be in this situation. I'm all for entente and prosperity between communities, and it's sad when there's bad blood between some of us wargamers. Because it harms the hobby. But don't act like WHFB fans weren't the ones to have thrown the first stone. 

Edited April 16, 2023 by The Lost Sigmarite

[Clan's Cynic]

20 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

What being called "Age of Sh**mar players" for 8 years does to mfs. Don't act like you didn't see it coming. The WHFB community always treated AoS players badly, don't expect the same AoS players to throw you flowers now that Old World is around the corner. Of course they're gonna feel scorned and resented.

Maybe if the way bigger sect of WHFB players that hate AoS for a living hadn't been a bunch of toxic gatekeepers since 2015, we wouldn't be in this situation. I'm all for entente and prosperity between communities, and it's sad when there's bad blood between some of us wargamers. Because it harms the hobby. But don't act like WHFB fans weren't the ones to have thrown the first stone. 

I'm not surprised a small sect of people upset the game they celebrated being killed is back from the dead, no.

But please, many Age of Sigmar players were oftentimes just as bad for it. "Grogs deserve to have their dead game squatted" was in abundance from Day 1. Even TGA used to be outright celebratory whenever a WHFB kit was removed because some saw it as one step closer to being rid of Fantasy completely.

I know quite a few people who were willing to give AoS a try, but kept away when the community was as toxic towards Fantasy fans for darring to be annoyed their game had been killed or not loving everything about AoS immediately. Yes, there have been plenty of people on the internet who attack AoS, but the AoS community hardly coveted itself in glory despite often pretending to be the wounded party. I stayed away from the game until very end of 1.0 for that reason.

I've seen far less hate for AoS now both games are going to exist alongside one another, which somewhat ironically has seen a backlash from some AoS players, who now seem strangely committed to discussions about a game they apparently have zero interest in.

 

Edited April 16, 2023 by Clan's Cynic

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

17 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

Maybe, maybe it's a upgrade sprue to turn the now OOP Vampire Counts skeletons into TK ones. But that would be a really big stretch. You would need to redo all the weapons, shields, some heads, the command... It would be less convoluted to just do new TK skeletons. 
And yes the old skeleton horses need to go. 

I have done this before, and it looks about 10 times better than using the really old Skeleton kit as the base:

The old Tomb Kings skeleton warrior upgrade sprue didn't actually come with any TK specific weapons or heads. Those were on the skeleton archer sprue, which in practice meant that TK skeleton warriors were just VC skeletons with a shield swap.