Warhammer - The Old World

[JerekKruger]

10 hours ago, The Red King said:

My biggest fear is they retire beasts to the old world and then fail to support the old world and it dies out.

I don't think GW will literally kill TOW, even if it eventually stops selling, for a long time. They killed fantasy, and it created uproar, and they went to the effort if bringing it back. To kill it again soon after release would be disastrous PR. I the worst case scenario is it goes into maintenance mode i.e. they keep it around but with no new releases and minimal resources put into it.

But honestly, given the hype around it right now, I am not too worried. I think there's a decent chance we'll get a second edition like Horus Heresy did some time after all the arcane journals are released, hopefully with at least some legacy factions added. I think there's a decent chance such a second edition could chance the time frame too, maybe just by a bit, it maybe significantly. There's plenty of Warhammer history to explore after all, and GW can use that to encourage people to build new armies with new paint schemes etc.

I also, personally, don't think BoC will be removed from AoS. That would be a massive kick in the teeth for any AoS exclusive BoC players which would generate a lot of bad PR.

[Chikout]

The specialist games studio is definitely going to run into a resources problem. We’re already seeing this. Bloodbowl used to get 4 teams a year. Last year they got one. Middle Earth used to get a couple of plastic kits a year but they haven’t had a single new sculpt in more than a year. Titanicus and Aeronautica got dropped probably because they don’t have the resources to support them alongside Legions Imperialis which has an even worse stock situation than The  Old World. If selling out quickly is a measure of success, that game is GW’s best product ever. 
The old world looks to have been a big enough hit that it deserves the level of support, Heresy is currently getting but unless they hire several more designers, I don’t see how they can do it.

It also seems to be the case that at least one designer who was being trained to make Old World plastics left suddenly. 
 

When Underworlds first came out people were saying it wouldn’t last a year but here we are 8 years and almost 50 warbands later and it’s still going strong so I’m certain The Old World will continue getting support for a long time but I don’t think we’ll see a big increase in the level of support any time soon. 

[EccentricCircle]

Given how long the R&D cycle takes, we can be sure they have the first 2-3 years planned out. Its clear they are planning a relaunch for each faction and some sort of campaign narrative. 

I reckon the best comparison is Necromunda, where they gradually introduced each faction with a new plastic kit, while releasing a random assortment of resin models. If it gets that level of support, or maybe between that and what the current edition of Middle Earth has got, then I'll be happy.

[JerekKruger]

38 minutes ago, Chikout said:

Bloodbowl used to get 4 teams a year. Last year they got one.

To be fair, Blood Bowl had perhaps reached saturation. All the classic teams have be released, asking with quite a few completely new teams. There comes a point where they are scrapping the barrel for new ideas, and it might be best to release very slowly rather than dumping multiple bad ideas into the game.

Also Blood Bowl is weird in that it will survive being cancelled. It has done so before after all.

[Ejecutor]

1 hour ago, JerekKruger said:

I don't think GW will literally kill TOW, even if it eventually stops selling, for a long time. They killed fantasy, and it created uproar, and they went to the effort if bringing it back. To kill it again soon after release would be disastrous PR. I the worst case scenario is it goes into maintenance mode i.e. they keep it around but with no new releases and minimal resources put into it.

But honestly, given the hype around it right now, I am not too worried. I think there's a decent chance we'll get a second edition like Horus Heresy did some time after all the arcane journals are released, hopefully with at least some legacy factions added. I think there's a decent chance such a second edition could chance the time frame too, maybe just by a bit, it maybe significantly. There's plenty of Warhammer history to explore after all, and GW can use that to encourage people to build new armies with new paint schemes etc.

I also, personally, don't think BoC will be removed from AoS. That would be a massive kick in the teeth for any AoS exclusive BoC players which would generate a lot of bad PR.

The question is not if we would get a second edition, IMO, but when and which factions would be included.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 minute ago, Ejecutor said:

The question is not if we would get a second edition, IMO, but when and which factions would be included.

I can't imagine that the long-term plan for TOW is anything other than placing all the factions on the battletome (arcane jounrnal?) treadmill, just like with every other system. Maybe we will see a new faction per edition, but the vast majority of the updates have got to be "book and a hero" style.

[Ejecutor]

1 minute ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I can't imagine that the long-term plan for TOW is anything other than placing all the factions on the battletome (arcane jounrnal?) treadmill, just like with every other system. Maybe we will see a new faction per edition, but the vast majority of the updates have got to be "book and a hero" style.

Honestly, I prefer what we have now, minimum support and then start adding factions back to what was made to AoS. Adding factions to then remove them, leaving miniatures to remove them as well later on (in batches in some cases). Obv is not the same scenario, but I think they managed it in a more clever way from that pov.

[Ejecutor]

58 minutes ago, Chikout said:

It also seems to be the case that at least one designer who was being trained to make Old World plastics left suddenly. 

Take this with a pinch of salt.

I've read a comment from a WhatsApp group that 40k didn't sell well enough last year (or what was expected) as the userbase is not happy with how 40 is turning with the indexes and codexes not being released quick enough, so that lead to release TOW sooner than the expected plan to make up the numbers.

This underperformance of the sales led to some team restructuring, and that user said that the 3 workers being TOW have been totally changed.

I asked for the source of this team restructuring but he sent me a link to a blog talking about 40k codexes...

He also said in a different post that the money put for AoS 4th ed was more than twice the money spent for 3rd ed.

Edited March 4 by Ejecutor

[Garrac]

SIXTEEN DAYS FOR ADEPTICON

[Ejecutor]

1 minute ago, Garrac said:

SIXTEEN DAYS FOR ADEPTICON

Do you mean ratdepticon?

[Garrac]

6 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

Do you mean ratdepticon?

I don't wanna give too much on hope already. What I actually expect it's just a stormcast and a clanrat mini revealed. But the oficial confirmation is going to be celebrated like a party here.

Edited March 4 by Garrac

[JerekKruger]

21 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

The question is not if we would get a second edition, IMO, but when and which factions would be included.

I hope that's the case, but don't want to set myself up for disappointment. I think the rules of TOW are pretty damn good, with a few wonky edge cases, so would benefit hugely from a light touch pass, and I think adding at least some if the legacy factions in would be really good (I am building a Dark Elf army anyway, but if they eventually get an Arcane Journal and some new minis I will be very happy).

[Gotz]

with old world, I think is better not to think in "classic" edition system like Aos or 40k. Look at how necromunda or HH are managed.

The game gets expanded without a clear new edition and then gets consolidated in a new book, but its not a new edition.

Old World could perfectly grow in campaign books or whatever and down the road get new books (but not a new edition in the traditional sense)

[Garrac]

50 minutes ago, Gotz said:

with old world, I think is better not to think in "classic" edition system like Aos or 40k. Look at how necromunda or HH are managed.

The game gets expanded without a clear new edition and then gets consolidated in a new book, but its not a new edition.

Old World could perfectly grow in campaign books or whatever and down the road get new books (but not a new edition in the traditional sense)

I don't think we should compare any specialist game with Horus Heresy, that is it's own thing at this point and is clearly aiming to become a main system if it follows the current path.

[JerekKruger]

1 hour ago, Gotz said:

with old world, I think is better not to think in "classic" edition system like Aos or 40k. Look at how necromunda or HH are managed.

The game gets expanded without a clear new edition and then gets consolidated in a new book, but its not a new edition.

Old World could perfectly grow in campaign books or whatever and down the road get new books (but not a new edition in the traditional sense)

I think it's fair to say it won't be on a 3 year treadmill like AoS and 40k are, but I do think it'll be more like Horus Heresy than other specialist games i.e. it has a decent chance of getting a true new edition rather than simple consolidation. This will, of course, depend on popularity.

[JackStreicher]

TOW will be slow and I love it. I hate the release hamster-wheel the main systems are in IT STRESSES ME OUT.

 

 

[cyrus]

2 hours ago, Ejecutor said:

The question is not if we would get a second edition, IMO, but when and which factions would be included.

From the rumors I heard (Hastings) the game will develop with narrative books/campaign after the 2 year factions release : from year 2276 in border princes wars heading slowly towards year 2301 with siege of Praag (great war against chaos)

(Current) ToW design manager is Rob Alderman which is Middlearth design manager as well: so I would expect same support and development.

We can not really compare ToW to HH.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 hour ago, JackStreicher said:

TOW will be slow and I love it. I hate the release hamster-wheel the main systems are in IT STRESSES ME OUT.

It's a hard balance to strike. I feel like a game like Warhammer, where it takes a long time to get an army fully finished if you engage with the game like you are "supposed to", needs somewhat stable rules over time. I think it is not very controversial to say that the last edition of AoS had too many, too significant rules changes too quickly. So, personally, I don't want that rules model again in the future (neither in AoS nor TOW). But I also don't want to end up in the Lord of the Rings space of no real updates at all for forever.

In AoS, I still like what they are doing with battlescrolls, giving us small quarterly (more or less) adjustments to the rules to help fix obvious issues as they become apparent. I think, within a few months, people will be asking for balance updates for TOW, as well. Many are already trying to push house rules/comp packs that address certain unpopular aspects of the rules. This kind of regular support coupled with a longer edition cycle would be ideal for me.

Edited March 4 by Neil Arthur Hotep

[Ogregut]

2 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

TOW will be slow and I love it. I hate the release hamster-wheel the main systems are in IT STRESSES ME OUT.

 

 

Haha, I'm the opposite, give me new stuff to paint, I've already painted 2 armies this year and almost finished my 3rd lol

[Ejecutor]

22 minutes ago, Ogregut said:

Haha, I'm the opposite, give me new stuff to paint, I've already painted 2 armies this year and almost finished my 3rd lol

Wow

[Beliman]

3 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

TOW will be slow and I love it. I hate the release hamster-wheel the main systems are in IT STRESSES ME OUT.

 

 

Play Duardins. Expect a hero every 8 or 11 months and maybe a warcry band after 7 or 8 years.

[JackStreicher]

1 hour ago, Ogregut said:

Haha, I'm the opposite, give me new stuff to paint, I've already painted 2 armies this year and almost finished my 3rd lol

 

and I don't have children. Kudos to everyone managing to stay in this hobby while having children

Edited March 4 by JackStreicher

[Marcvs]

16 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

 

and I don't have children. Kudos to everyone managing to stay in this hobby while having children

I've got a daughter (2.5 years old) and it's different but doable

taking your comment for way too serious a reflection on our hobby and having children: in the context of having a little one in the house, I am actually incredibly happy of having switched from my previous hobby (videogames) to playing and painting minis. a) we have a "0 screens as long as we can hold" policy, so it's actually easier to engage with my hobby than it would have been if I had stuck with vidogames; b) it's a creative hobby that I can actually share with my daughter already (I have bought and primed some big plastic dinosaurs for her and she's joining me at the painting table quite often these days); c) working in a office job, I've never been a great craftsman, but the stuff I learned through the hobby has made me comfortable in designing and realising a small cardboard spaceship for our little astronaut last carnival

end of the parent section, lol

Edited March 4 by Marcvs

[Ogregut]

21 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

 

and I don't have children. Kudos to everyone managing to stay in this hobby while having children

Im a massive believer that everyone should have some creative outlet for good mental health and I try to do some hobby everyday even if it's just laying a couple of colours down. 

Doesn't hurt that I unlocked the paint fast skill 😂😂😂

I've discovered my 4th army as well with the Darkoath boxset revealed today lol

[LordSolarMach]

7 hours ago, Chikout said:

...unless they hire several more designers, I don’t see how they can do it.

It also seems to be the case that at least one designer who was being trained to make Old World plastics left suddenly...

I'm pretty sure there's no problem with designers, or sculptors.

GW (and by extension Specialist Games) have a big bottleneck problem on the production side (as seen by their stock issues), and there is likely a marketing component (ie. you don't want to release vastly more than your customer base can keep up with, so teams probably have a rough number of releases they are allowed to put out in a year).

We know that GW sits on sculpts for years - recently, as pointed out by others, the upcoming Darkoath wave shares all its design cues with the Darkoath Warqueen (released six years ago). They could just be based on her, but I also wouldn't be surprised if they've been around for quite a while.