AoS 2 Cities of Sigmar Discussion: Hallowheart

[themortalgod]

7 minutes ago, mmimzie said:

No

 

I don't loce gemnids as i like to have a nice strong melee unit, and geminids nerf you so much, even more so when most out good melee units have two attack, but if you are all shooting they arent an issue. 

 

I don't love geminids when bringing fast multi attack melee units as even with our possible spell ignore you could find yourself with a unit of black guard only doing 1 attack each.

 

I'd make the black guard squads 30 man. That's what makes them good is that they can fight in 3 rows unlike excutions and other 1" range units. 

 

A sorcerous with thermal rider cloak is about as good as a black dragon in my opinion. As the main reason you bring the black dragon is to have something that keeps up with the black guard.

 

Otherwise it looks pretty cool.

The black dragon is there to be the cast battery. (aka take D6 MWs from the command ability and not have a chance of just insta dying). Also Bladewind is incredible. With spell portal it is really high odds chance at 1 shotting a huge variety of on heroes on foot. (9 dice, each is a mw if you roll less than their save. Toss it at a 5+ save hero and they take 6 wounds on avg)

I thought about bigger units of Black guard, but it makes them more unwieldy. I'd also have to more or less drop the Eternal guard to accomodate. Lately I find massive units to be more of vulnerability as it just gives my opponent a good target for their super alpha strike. Whether it is Eels, or a GKonT, or Keeper. If it slams into my guard, the whole unit will be dead before it gets to fight, regardless of if it is 20 or 30. Thus I've been starting to lean towards more units with smaller counts unless the big unit bonus is really tasty as it means the super alpha strike is more wasteful since it overkills a smaller target.

The geminids is a fair point though, I'd like to think their long summon range will keep them away from my troops fairly well, but I could be wrong.  

[themortalgod]

13 minutes ago, stratigo said:

The purple sun's main target is big models, which it does an average of 7 wounds to when it hits them, which is fairly solid.

Fair, though, that is pretty situational. You both need to have a valid target to send it at and also for that target to be in a position where the sun can make contact. 

[Gwydion]

Hi, I'm new to AoS. I was an old dark elf and skaven player many editions back in WFB.  I have a question on the interaction between two endless spells. I'm not sure on the finer points of rules timings in AoS yet.

 

Lauchon states, '...After this model has moved, set that unit up again wholly within 3" of this model and more than 9" from any enemy units...'

Spellportal states, 'If a predatory endless spell finishes a move within 6" of an Umbral Spellportal model, remove it from the battlefield and set it up again anywhere within 6" of the other Umbral Spellportal model...'

So my reading on this is that you have two things that try to trigger at the end of Lauchon's move. Placing him and placing the models he's picked up. Do you chose the order in which to resolve these triggers? If so, you could transport a unit virtually anywhere on the battlefield.

 

I'm picturing flinging out minimum units of Eternal Guard with the Sisters of Thorn spell up for 2+ save objective holders. Or proofing Irondrakes into existence in extremely inconvenient locations for your opponent.

[Rune]

Looking at bringing a Battlemage on Pegasus from The Empire into my Hallowheart army.

 

I don't understand how the alliance rules works, but will I essentially be able to give the Battlemage on Pegasus the Halloheart city abilities - or does that only count on allies such as the Stormcast Eternals?

[Raffonerd]

9 hours ago, Bigscaryflorister said:

Played my first game last night with this 

Anointed of flamespyre (Pauldrones of flame)

hurricanum & mage (ignaxs scales)

2 battlemages (life and metal)

Anointed on foot (spellhunter)

30 Phoenix guard

2x10 Phoenix guard

10 shadow warriors

ravenacks jaws

spell portal

lifeswarm

 

had the white fire battalion, but averaging +cast from the ca it seemed a little excessive to have +6... unbundling may well be better! 

Gaurd hitting on twos from the hurricanum and rerolling wounds was absolutely amazing... averaging 56 rend 1 wounds! Brought ten back, so worth the points for lifeswarm. This was dispelled after casting!

Bird is awesome for charging in and wrecking what’s the spells haven’t, and doing more at the end of combat. 

Ravenaks was amazing for 30 points! 12”+d6 is pretty beast. 

elemental cyclone. Oh boy: spell portal and cast makes that an absolute beast against blocks of elites and hordes! 

Similar to mine. 

I have no huricanum and a lord arcanum. Better save self heal and better stats. 

Also i have frost phoenix and 2x20 phoenix. Also add geminds, emerald and the top spell lauchon.

[Defonotaspambot]

3 hours ago, themortalgod said:

The black dragon is there to be the cast battery. (aka take D6 MWs from the command ability and not have a chance of just insta dying). Also Bladewind is incredible. With spell portal it is really high odds chance at 1 shotting a huge variety of on heroes on foot. (9 dice, each is a mw if you roll less than their save. Toss it at a 5+ save hero and they take 6 wounds on avg)

Do you need to use a Black Dragon as a cast battery? With the Hallowheart battalion and the sorceresses sacrifice you are on a +3. Do you need anymore?

Edited October 9, 2019 by Defonotaspambot

[themortalgod]

1 minute ago, Defonotaspambot said:

Do you need to use a Black Dragon as a cast battery? With the Hallowheart battalion and the sorceresses sacrifice you are on a +3. Do you need anymore?

I don't intend to be sacrificing 4 black guard per turn to the daggers. Taking D6 MW divided by 2 then healing D6 is far more appealing.  Also the Battery buffs the 2 casts from the Sisters as well.

[Bigscaryflorister]

53 minutes ago, Raffonerd said:

Similar to mine. 

I have no huricanum and a lord arcanum. Better save self heal and better stats. 

Also i have frost phoenix and 2x20 phoenix. Also add geminds, emerald and the top spell lauchon.

The hurricanum feels like it should be the lynchpin of the list. Buffs casters(again). Decent mw output. Wicked spell combined with the chamon wizard. Makes the block of guard hit on 2’s for being near it. Casts, and can tank/heal damage to itself to ensure every spell goes off all game. 

Arcanums great, but reliably able to pump out 3d3 &d6 mw in a hero phase a sideshow great?

frosty is usually my favourite... but leans towards keeping it amongst others for the awesome aura. I use the flame with the artefact to pile the ****** into whatever I didn’t just kill with the spell barrage! Flat 5 mw just for saying hey, and d3 on a 4+ to all in combat. They can’t resist, it’s effectively two more decent spells in mw output. He’ll keep them busy for a turn or  two, which is all I need him for. And if he does die... 😁

lists expensive, and lacking in some areas, but it’s ****** fun 💪

 

[mmimzie]

1 hour ago, Gwydion said:

Hi, I'm new to AoS. I was an old dark elf and skaven player many editions back in WFB.  I have a question on the interaction between two endless spells. I'm not sure on the finer points of rules timings in AoS yet.

 

Lauchon states, '...After this model has moved, set that unit up again wholly within 3" of this model and more than 9" from any enemy units...'

Spellportal states, 'If a predatory endless spell finishes a move within 6" of an Umbral Spellportal model, remove it from the battlefield and set it up again anywhere within 6" of the other Umbral Spellportal model...'

So my reading on this is that you have two things that try to trigger at the end of Lauchon's move. Placing him and placing the models he's picked up. Do you chose the order in which to resolve these triggers? If so, you could transport a unit virtually anywhere on the battlefield.

 

I'm picturing flinging out minimum units of Eternal Guard with the Sisters of Thorn spell up for 2+ save objective holders. Or proofing Irondrakes into existence in extremely inconvenient locations for your opponent.

Hey friend and welcome to AoS. I hope you have a blast getting back into the hobby, and if you have any questions the community is always here to help. 

There is an FAQ on the order in which things happen, general if you are controling the action you pick the order things happen. So if you wanted to use the boat and pop it through a portal you can  and then set up, or you can chose to stop the boat, let everyone out and then move it through the portal. 
 

Here is said FAQ 

Spoiler

Q: If several abilities are triggered at the same time (at the start of a hero phase, for example), how do you determine the order in which they are used?
A: If several abilities can be used at the same time, the player whose turn is taking place uses their abilities first, one after the other, in any order they desire; then the player whose turn is not taking place uses their abilities, one after another, in any order they desire. The same principle applies to any other things – such as command traits or artefacts of power – that can be used simultaneously. Note that abilities used at the start or the end of a phase still count as being used in the phase in question.
For example, the Flesh-eater Courts Savage Strike command trait allows a general to fight at the start of the combat phase, while the Stormcast Eternals Sequitor Aetheric Channelling ability is used at the start of the combat phase too. In the Flesh-eater Courts turn, the Savage Strike command trait would take effect before the Sequitor Aetheric Channelling ability. In the Stormcast Eternals turn, the Sequitor Aetheric Channelling ability would take effect before the Savage Strike command trait.

 

[Gwydion]

Thanks for that reference.

So that seems pretty potent to me. You're likely already taking the Spellportal in Hallowheart, I think. So it's only 70 more points than you were already taking.

You can pull it off from outside the opponent's unbind range, thanks to the Spellportal being empowered. So it's pretty much guaranteed in Hallowheart.

9 Eternal Guard with 2+ saves and rebounding wounds on 6s. If the opponent mangles them too badly you could send an Emerald Lifeswarm through the portal to reinforce. Or drop 9 Irondrakes behind the Eternal Guard to blast whatever they sent that could mangle them.

Reminds me of the Chronosphere from Red Alert.

 

[mmimzie]

9 hours ago, stratigo said:

The purple sun's main target is big models, which it does an average of 7 wounds to when it hits them, which is fairly solid.

FAQ covers that you must roll the 6+ for the purple sun to do the 7 mortal wounds. The power of the purple sun is hitting alot of an opponents army. More so in hollow heart and even more with our ability to cast it right in the enemies face if they dare make you go first. That said it's target dependent, but its not just hordes purple sun is good against. Anything beyond min size is a potentially good target, as you have to consider it's killing models not doing wounds. It's really good against multi wound unit and any horde unit. 

That said it is definity a trade off against pendulum and which units they are better against are different. In hollow heart i'd say the argument leans alittle more toward purple sun as it can move 12" getting a large chunk of the table, and can be boosted further with a spell portal as @Gwydion points out. Letting you extend the range abit further, as spell portal is mostly for the first and maybe 2nd turn, but after that it struggle to find a good use. 

Anywho this is what my list is looking like:
Sorceress General: Fames spell hunter, Spells: ignite/warding brand
Ghur Battlemage: Adjunct, Spells: Crystal ageis/Ignite
Azyr Battlemage:  Spells: Roaming wildfire, Seer wounds
Knight Incantor:  Spells: Cyclone, Seer wounds
Luminark: Artifact: Agloraxxi Prism Seer wounds, Roaming Wildfire

20x Darkshards: Retinue
10x Darkshards
10x Darkshards

130 5x Sisters of throne
340 6x Morrsarr guard
110 10x Shadow warriors

40 Balewind Vortex
50 Purple Sun (maaaybe pendulum)
70 Umbral spellportal
60 Lauchron the soulseeker
100 Everblaze Comet
20 Suffocating Gravetide (filling points)

 

2000/2000

Wanted to make sure i'm not caught on the back foot if made to go first, but also have a fat enough screen if i go 2nd against an alpha list.   

[Raffonerd]

6 hours ago, Bigscaryflorister said:

The hurricanum feels like it should be the lynchpin of the list. Buffs casters(again). Decent mw output. Wicked spell combined with the chamon wizard. Makes the block of guard hit on 2’s for being near it. Casts, and can tank/heal damage to itself to ensure every spell goes off all game. 

Arcanums great, but reliably able to pump out 3d3 &d6 mw in a hero phase a sideshow great?

frosty is usually my favourite... but leans towards keeping it amongst others for the awesome aura. I use the flame with the artefact to pile the ****** into whatever I didn’t just kill with the spell barrage! Flat 5 mw just for saying hey, and d3 on a 4+ to all in combat. They can’t resist, it’s effectively two more decent spells in mw output. He’ll keep them busy for a turn or  two, which is all I need him for. And if he does die... 😁

lists expensive, and lacking in some areas, but it’s ****** fun 💪

 

Yes. But huricanum dies fast against a shooting list, while the arcanum don t.

Frost is maybe less deadly but is more useful as a supporting unit for your army.

[SwampHeart]

16 hours ago, Rune said:

Looking at bringing a Battlemage on Pegasus from The Empire into my Hallowheart army.

 

I don't understand how the alliance rules works, but will I essentially be able to give the Battlemage on Pegasus the Halloheart city abilities - or does that only count on allies such as the Stormcast Eternals?

You won't be able to even legally select the Battlemage on Pegasus as an ally for a Cities of Sigmar army (it doesn't have a listed keyword that makes it an eligible ally). Any Stormcast unit you take can select 2 Hallowheart spells per the army rules. 

[Maturin]

57 minutes ago, SwampHeart said:

You won't be able to even legally select the Battlemage on Pegasus as an ally for a Cities of Sigmar army (it doesn't have a listed keyword that makes it an eligible ally). Any Stormcast unit you take can select 2 Hallowheart spells per the army rules. 

I think he was interested by the battlemag's signature spell

[SwampHeart]

1 minute ago, Maturin said:

I think he was interested by the battlemag's signature spell

Right but what I'm saying is he isn't even allowed to take a Battlemage on Pegasus as an ally at all - it is illegal in matched play. 

[zilberfrid]

Take the wings off it, put them on a gryph charger and you have your amber mage on griffin.

The gryph charger from the Lord Arcanum at least, is not that much smaller than deathclaw.

[PJetski]

2 hours ago, SwampHeart said:

Right but what I'm saying is he isn't even allowed to take a Battlemage on Pegasus as an ally at all - it is illegal in matched play. 

It is legal since it has points in GHB2019 and a warscroll, but it can't be used in a Cities of Sigmar army - it can only be used in an Order army or as an ally in a Stormcast army.

Edited October 10, 2019 by PJetski

[SwampHeart]

9 minutes ago, PJetski said:

It is legal since it has points in GHB2019 and a warscroll, but it can't be used in a Cities of Sigmar army - it can only be used in an Order army or as an ally in a Stormcast army.

That's exactly what I said. 

[zilberfrid]

In theory, you could ally it in, together with CoS units in Stormcast, leave 75% of the army back, and try to win with just the pegasus mage and CoS armies.

In theory.

[PJetski]

Just now, SwampHeart said:

That's exactly what I said. 

The way you phrased it seemed to suggest you were saying it was illegal in all matched play 

[SwampHeart]

1 minute ago, PJetski said:

The way you phrased it seemed to suggest you were saying it was illegal in all matched play 

If you only read that post you're correct - my first post regarding the issue I said "You won't be able to even legally select the Battlemage on Pegasus as an ally for a Cities of Sigmar army (it doesn't have a listed keyword that makes it an eligible ally).' I was clarifying for Maturin that there is no way to legally take a Battlemage on Pegasus in Cities of Sigmar as a CoS army. 

[Maturin]

7 minutes ago, SwampHeart said:

 I was clarifying for Maturin that there is no way to legally take a Battlemage on Pegasus in Cities of Sigmar as a CoS army. 

I knew that, I was just saying what he wanted to tuse the battlmeage for

[Rune]

I've given up on the battlemage on pegasus.

 

The amount of units I have at my disposal is pretty small. What do you guys think about this list? I'd like to hear your ideas before I go out and make the purchase.

Battlemage on Griffon - 300 points

Luminark of Hysh with mage - 270 points

Battlemage - 90 points

Knight-Incantor - 140 points

Freeguild General - 100 points (for hold the line)

 

40 Freeguild Guard - 260 points 

20 Freeguild Handgunners - 200

20 Freeguild Handgunners - 200

 

Battalion (Whitefire Retinue) - 140 points

 

Everblaze Comet - 100 points

Emerald Lifeswarm - 50 points

Umbral Spellportal - 70 points

Geminids of Uhl-Gysh - 60 points

There are other endless spells like the Balewind Vortex that I think could be great. Perhaps I should give them a second thought.

 

Edited October 10, 2019 by Rune
Forgot to put in closing thought.

[Gwendar]

Current list running through my head... been at this all day with many iterations. Would love input; I aim to play this competitively so I'm thinking about the current hotness.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Hallowheart
Mortal Realm: Aqshy

Leaders
Knight-Incantor (140)
- General
- Trait: Famed Spell-hunter
- Spell: Lore of Whitefire - Sear Wounds (Hallowheart Wizard)
- Hallowheart 2nd Spell: Ignite Weapons

Lord-Arcanum (160)
- Artefact: Ignax's Scales
- Spell: Lore of Whitefire - Sear Wounds (Hallowheart Wizard)
- Hallowheart 2nd Spell: Warding Brand
- City Role: General's Adjutant (Must be 6 wounds or less)

Battlemage (90)
- Spell: Lore of Whitefire - Roaming Wildfire (Hallowheart Wizard)
- Hallowheart 2nd Spell: Elemental Cyclone
- Mortal Realm: Azyr

Battlemage (90)
- Spell: Lore of Whitefire - Ignite Weapons (Hallowheart Wizard)
- Hallowheart 2nd Spell: Warding Brand
- Mortal Realm: Hysh

Anointed of Asuryan on Flamespyre Phoenix (300)
- Artefact: Pauldrons of Living Flame

Battleline
10 x Freeguild Handgunners (100)
- City Role: Honoured Retinue (Must be 5-20 models)
10 x Freeguild Handgunners (100)
10 x Freeguild Handgunners (100)

Units
30 x Phoenix Guard (420)
10 x Shadow Warriors (110)

Battalions
Whitefire Retinue (140)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Umbral Spellportal (70)
Balewind Vortex (40)
Soulsnare Shackles (40)
Everblaze Comet (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 103

30 Handgunners are a decent enough chaff screen that have potential with long rifles to whittle away at whatever spells can't touch, though I'm sure this isn't the best choice.. at least they're shooting at whatever charged them. I initially had planned to run a Anointed Phoenix general for the PG battleline, but giving the Incantor the +3 unbind keeps him on solid comet duty throughout the whole game. This could really be overthinking it however. The 30 PG + Phoenix are throwing some forward threat out there so it isn't a complete castle-fest of a list while the Shadow Warriors can be available as needed; they really are a great unit.

Now, some of the iterations included a Hurricanum, some included a Bridge + 30 Irondrakes and all lists attempted to squeeze in 20-30 PG as well. For spells, the Azyr Mage is obviously going on top of the BW for Wildfire + Chain Lightning and generally can cast Cyclone from portal for even more range if needed. Since the Incantor will be redoing the comet every turn (usually) he's more or less given emergency backup spells while the Hysh Mage is the buffing unit. Lord Arcanum is healing himself from any CA wounds and using his empowered Arcane Bolt\-1 hit spell, which could work well in tandem with the Hysh's -1 to hit on a friendly unit. Overall, not completely satisfied with it but curious as to what others have to say.

[Luke.w]

5 hours ago, Gwendar said:

Current list running through my head... been at this all day with many iterations. Would love input; I aim to play this competitively so I'm thinking about the current hotness.

  Hide contents

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Hallowheart
Mortal Realm: Aqshy

Leaders
Knight-Incantor (140)
- General
- Trait: Famed Spell-hunter
- Spell: Lore of Whitefire - Sear Wounds (Hallowheart Wizard)
- Hallowheart 2nd Spell: Ignite Weapons

Lord-Arcanum (160)
- Artefact: Ignax's Scales
- Spell: Lore of Whitefire - Sear Wounds (Hallowheart Wizard)
- Hallowheart 2nd Spell: Warding Brand
- City Role: General's Adjutant (Must be 6 wounds or less)

Battlemage (90)
- Spell: Lore of Whitefire - Roaming Wildfire (Hallowheart Wizard)
- Hallowheart 2nd Spell: Elemental Cyclone
- Mortal Realm: Azyr

Battlemage (90)
- Spell: Lore of Whitefire - Ignite Weapons (Hallowheart Wizard)
- Hallowheart 2nd Spell: Warding Brand
- Mortal Realm: Hysh

Anointed of Asuryan on Flamespyre Phoenix (300)
- Artefact: Pauldrons of Living Flame

Battleline
10 x Freeguild Handgunners (100)
- City Role: Honoured Retinue (Must be 5-20 models)
10 x Freeguild Handgunners (100)
10 x Freeguild Handgunners (100)

Units
30 x Phoenix Guard (420)
10 x Shadow Warriors (110)

Battalions
Whitefire Retinue (140)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Umbral Spellportal (70)
Balewind Vortex (40)
Soulsnare Shackles (40)
Everblaze Comet (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 103

30 Handgunners are a decent enough chaff screen that have potential with long rifles to whittle away at whatever spells can't touch, though I'm sure this isn't the best choice.. at least they're shooting at whatever charged them. I initially had planned to run a Anointed Phoenix general for the PG battleline, but giving the Incantor the +3 unbind keeps him on solid comet duty throughout the whole game. This could really be overthinking it however. The 30 PG + Phoenix are throwing some forward threat out there so it isn't a complete castle-fest of a list while the Shadow Warriors can be available as needed; they really are a great unit.

Now, some of the iterations included a Hurricanum, some included a Bridge + 30 Irondrakes and all lists attempted to squeeze in 20-30 PG as well. For spells, the Azyr Mage is obviously going on top of the BW for Wildfire + Chain Lightning and generally can cast Cyclone from portal for even more range if needed. Since the Incantor will be redoing the comet every turn (usually) he's more or less given emergency backup spells while the Hysh Mage is the buffing unit. Lord Arcanum is healing himself from any CA wounds and using his empowered Arcane Bolt\-1 hit spell, which could work well in tandem with the Hysh's -1 to hit on a friendly unit. Overall, not completely satisfied with it but curious as to what others have to say.

I think the list has some nice things going for it, but in CoS Hallowheart I like to try to include some damaging endless spells. particularly pendulum as its path is so predicatbale and the range boost for CoS is nice. the lifeswarm is also one to consider with phoenix temple units.