Jetlife Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 30 minutes ago, BarakUrbaz said: Beasts of Chaos was literally what the faction was called when it was first split off the general Chaos army back in Warhammer Fantasy 6th edition. Its like arguing that Imperial Guard and Astra Militarum are two seperate factions. This is in terms of TOW and not WHFB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollow Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 (edited) 4 hours ago, madmac said: I'm getting increasingly tired explaining the entire history of the BoC range to someone who only just glanced at it for the first time today. About half the OG BoC range is resin. Out of the handful of plastic kits they have the SC or Vanguard box covers most of what you need. In recent years they've had maybe 2-3 kits go to online only which is completely in line with many other armies, LRL for example had half their range switch to online only in 3E and those are far more recent kits than BoC. I have been collecting Beastmen for a quarter of a century. Most of the current range available for Beasts of Chaos in AoS I have on square bases from before The End Times. So you can hop back in your little box. Whilst many models have been moved to Online Only, The fact that the entire range is online only AND out of stock is not "in line with many other armies". Online Only means that they are not available in GW retail stores, but can be stocked by FLGS and Online retailers. Take a look around a dozen or so major Online retailers and compare the offerings to updated AoS factions (Like LRL) and BoC, it's laughable, most have nothing apart from a smattering of kits that have just not sold or the aforementioned Beastlord and Vanguard kit. I don't even know what you are arguing about. What are you saying? That the Current BoC model line will stay in AoS untouched and unchanged for many more years to come? You do not want new miniatures for Beasts *whether that is in a reimagined Beasts faction for AoS or as mono-god units for existing Chaos factions? We already know for a fact the Shaggoth is in ToW. Do you think it will stay available in AoS? I do not. As I have mentioned before, I think with AoS 4 reboot there will be Index rules available for the existing range for use in AoS at launch and the range will be moved over to ToW and if/when Beasts are redone in AoS it will be all new models (along with the Tzaangors and perhaps the spawn kits) You think what? When Beasts are released for the Old World they will use other models than the current BoC line? They will be dual use (which is something GW are not planning on doing with AoS/ToW) What are you arguing about? What is the point you are trying to make? What position are you advocating for? I don't think you even know. Edited January 5 by Hollow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 32 minutes ago, Hollow said: I think with AoS 4 reboot there will be Index rules available for the existing range Are we expecting a reboot for AoS 4.0? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Someravella Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 8 hours ago, BarakUrbaz said: I'm just glad I'm a Kharadron player because I'm immune to people constantly arguing about if my dudes are being squatted or not. There is a worse thing than being squatted... being souped with naked dwarves! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonhel Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Imo, moving all the current BoC mini's to TOW is interesting and good for AoS and TOW. The current BoC aesthetics would work perfectly with TOW. It's going back to their roots. That said, this also means BoC can receive a total overhaul which maximise the benefit of round bases and the creative freedom AoS has. Lots of animals could be used as base to make Beast of Chaos. Long term there are only benefits even if it means that BoC is removed at the start of AoS 4th edition. (If the rumour is true at all). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandlemad Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 I feel like the way a lot of people talk about range consistency and what’s good for AoS re: older minis being squatted or dropped - particularly where that’s treated as a Good Thing Actually - is driven mostly by their own feelings and aesthetic preferences, with a view on GW’s trends and motivations coming second as a sort of thin justification. And I think that those feelings and aesthetic preferences tend to have a strong vibe of “my peas and mashed potatoes should never touch!” 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitzdee Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 I think GW has shown they are busy cleaning up the AoS model line. They have been removing/updating resin heroes all over the place. They have been doing the same to many of the older sculpts within their tomes. They have removed every forgeworld model. They have redesigned CoS that imho has always been a temporary tome to let people keep playing with their old models. I think its plausible that Beasts get their range updated and will receive an update similar to Soulblight or CoS where most models are replaced by new designs and the older ones are moved to ToW. I dont think it will be this year though. Unless GW somehow manages to do this before 4th and close the era of the beast with an actual beasts update. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagged Red Lines Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 (edited) 25 minutes ago, sandlemad said: I feel like the way a lot of people talk about range consistency and what’s good for AoS re: older minis being squatted or dropped - particularly where that’s treated as a Good Thing Actually - is driven mostly by their own feelings and aesthetic preferences, with a view on GW’s trends and motivations coming second as a sort of thin justification. And I think that those feelings and aesthetic preferences tend to have a strong vibe of “my peas and mashed potatoes should never touch!” Yeah, tbh it really hurt when my phoenix elves were squatted. I thought I was ready for the possibility, but when it rolled around it was still a major gut punch. Its not the financial commitment, its the hours and hours and hours you spent painting the army, thinking about the lore or lists and tactics. You can proxy them, but it's never the same. Edited January 5 by Jagged Red Lines 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitzdee Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Jagged Red Lines said: Yeah, tbh it really hurt when my phoenix elves were squatted. I thought I was ready for the possibility, but when it rolled around it was still a major gut punch. Its not the financial commitment, its the hours and hours and hours you spent painting the army, thinking about the Lord or lists and tactics. You can proxy them, but it's never the same. I know the feeling. After half my army got squated with O&G moving to AoS i still worry about my Spiderfang and Bonesplitterz that are leftover. At least the lack of Bonesplitterz in ToW makes me somewhat hopefull. I hope the coming months when 4th is closing in we will see some leaks or more info about these older armies/ subfactions. But i would love to see what these ranges will look like AoSified. I love Hedrakkas Madmob, Ardboyz and the Snarlfangs. If those are an indication of what they can do updating some of the O&G models i cant wait to see the rest. Edited January 5 by Gitzdee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezzhil Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 19 minutes ago, Gitzdee said: I know the feeling. After half my army got squated with O&G moving to AoS i still worry about my Spiderfang and Bonsplitterz that are leftover. At least the lack of Bonesplitterz in ToW makes me somewhat hopefull. I hope the coming months when 4th is closing in we will see some leaks or more info about these older armies/ subfactions. But i would love to see what these ranges will look like AoSified. I love Hedrakkas Madmob, Ardboyz and the Snarlfangs. If those are an indication of what they can do updating some of the O&G models i cant wait to see the rest. Arachnaroks will stay but maybe spider riders would change for something different and more cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezzhil Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 I am not worried about the new image of Skaven or the future BoC. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitzdee Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Nezzhil said: Arachnaroks will stay but maybe spider riders would change for something different and more cool. That would be fine as the model still looks great. If i could wishlist a small wave it would be this: Scuttleboss with 3 builds. A named Scuttleboss to lead the subfaction and a Scuttleboss with generic and Webspinner Shaman build. Riders with 2 builds, ranged or melee weapons. New unit elite mounted unit with a Scuttling Grot on a new type of Arachnid similar to Goregruntas or the Morbheg Knights. Edit: If i could be greedy i would like to see a doomdiver that shoots scuttling grots with webbed wings dropping spider venom bombs. Edited January 5 by Gitzdee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Brotherhood of Necros Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 25 minutes ago, Nezzhil said: I am not worried about the new image of Skaven or the future BoC. If you were to make completely random guesses and wild speculation about both these things, what would they be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezzhil Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 24 minutes ago, Gitzdee said: That would be fine as the model still looks great. If i could wishlist a small wave it would be this: Scuttleboss with 3 builds. A named Scuttleboss to lead the subfaction and a Scuttleboss with generic and Webspinner Shaman build. Riders with 2 builds, ranged or melee weapons. New unit elite mounted unit with a Scuttling Grot on a new type of Arachnid similar to Goregruntas or the Morbheg Knights. Edit: If i could be greedy i would like to see a doomdiver that shoots scuttling grots with webbed wings dropping spider venom bombs. Spiderfang needs a reboot. I think It is more good for you if you expect a revamp of the unit design and expect only Arachnaroks as the mounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSalabean Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Just now, The Brotherhood of Necros said: If you were to make completely random guesses and wild speculation about both these things, what would they be? I dont think Skaven are going to change, they will likely just be enhanced in character and quality like the underworlds sets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrac Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 5 minutes ago, SirSalabean said: I dont think Skaven are going to change, they will likely just be enhanced in character and quality like the underworlds sets Just take the Seb Perbet designs from the 7th ed wave and take them a step further. the underworlds warbands actually show a great direction in that sense (f.e. im going to use the Splittershank crew as night runners on TOW and they fit very well with Seb minis for that matter) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitzdee Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 6 minutes ago, Nezzhil said: Spiderfang needs a reboot. I think It is more good for you if you expect a revamp of the unit design and expect only Arachnaroks as the mounts. I fully expect the feather headbands to make way for something else. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 6 hours ago, Chikout said: There have been rumours that Beasts of Chaos were going to get squatted since 1st edition. Let's look at the reasons why or why not beasts of chaos may stop being a dedicated faction. Reasons for squatting: They are an old faction with a large number of old world kits and many resin kits remaining. The introduction of ToW allows gw to port all the kits straight over to the other setting. Gw might want to reduce the number of books they produce in order to make way for brand new factions. Some kits that looked ideal for BoC have gone into other factions. Reasons for keeping: They are a popular faction that has always seen play despite the lack of new kits. Even when the rules weren't good they saw more play in tournaments than the likes of Fyreslayers. BoC had to be in the old world. There's no way to write them out of the setting in the way they did with Skaven. In the lore they are everywhere. Like daemons there is no lore reason why they would look different in the two settings. Having a faction doing double duty in two settings with different bases is hardly unique (deamons of chaos) . Although BoC hasn't had many additions to the core range, the concept clearly interests the studio. We've had Tzaangor and Slaangor added to the range. We've even had a 40k beasts of chaos warband. In order of squatting/moving/ completely reworking likelihood l'd order it like this. 1 bonesplittas (the least popular army in the game) 2 spider fang 3 dispossessed (unlike with BoC it would be weird to have kits with exactly the same design in both settings) 4 chaos Duardin again (I just don't think a new chaos Duardin army would be nearly as popular as Beasts of Chaos with a FeC style update) 5 beasts of chaos. If I was GW I'd allow the ogroid and the warcry monsters to go in the BoC army and drop the bullgors, the doombull I'd make a new shaggoth as a centrepiece, redo the bestigors, the centigors, add pestigors, khornegors and a couple of new monsters to replace the old ones. A couple of foot heroes would round out a FeC sized update. As the for Honest Wargamer rumour he's wrong as often as he's right and also likes to mess with people so you really can't take his rumours seriously. I think I heard Daemons won't be present on TOW due to the lack of magic or something like that. So maybe we don't have to deal with that AoS vs TOW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 5 hours ago, Wurgog_on_a_Wyvern said: I've been hearing Bonespliitaz are being squatted and move to TOW all of 2023, but now the rumored O&G lists come out and not a single savage orc is listed... so can we please stop with the Bonesplitterz are being squated. I see Bonesplitterz lists in every tournament, and they were at the top of the meta in the spring of 2023. They were mentioned multiple times in the new Cities of Sigmar book. If the TOW O&G list is accurate and there's not a single savage orc in the Raveging Hordes book can we please stop saying that BS will be squatted and maybe start talking about a refresh instead.... Sincerely, A huge Bonesplitterz fan I tjink those bonesplittaz rumors are likely just the wish-listing of a minority of aos fans who consider all old world needs to be removed. personally that of course doesn’t mean bonesplittaz are save. truth is nobody really knows if they get removed. they have certainly been one of those faction lacking of support by gw lately. Although considering on the popularity on orks in total. I can at least say that I have seem more bonesplittaz fans then kruelboyz. Even now kruelboyz at least in my area are considered not interesting enough, although some of us skaven players love there monster although for other reasons 4 hours ago, Beliman said: Are we expecting a reboot for AoS 4.0? I think some of us have had or still have that wish. If it is expected….. well that depends on the oppinion of each player, but I’d say personally yes and at the same time hope it’s not. Players of faction that are just now getting their battletomes won’t be happy for such a chance. We have after all seen it happening in 40k 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmac Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 4 hours ago, Hollow said: They will be dual use (which is something GW are not planning on doing with AoS/ToW) This is merely an unproven assertion on your part, and the idea that GW is going to remove an entire army from AoS just so they can bring them back a little bit later is even sillier. As I've said many times now, there is absolutely no need for GW to do anything with the AoS range in the near future. Anyone who wants to buy beastmen for TOW can do so, today, with no issue, ditto for AoS. When TOW gets around to actually releasing anything specifically for Beastmen in a couple of years then sure, they will make some old world beastmen models that won't be ported to AoS, just as AoS additions won't be available in TOW. In time the two lines will naturally diverge, but there is absolutely no crisis, no need for them to do anything at all this year to solve a nonexistent problem that only exists for people who are fuming for total separation, immediately! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taerg Ad Ywons Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 I think the safe bet with savage orcs/bonesplittas is that if you're planning on using them for ToW, and savage orcs aren't in the army list...well they're just regular orcs. They have all regular orc weapon options- HW+Shield, 2HW, Spear+shield, Spear+HW, Bows. If/when an AoS kit releases, they'll "appear" in TOW. I wouldn't hold my breath that these books are the be all, end all for the the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonhel Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 7 minutes ago, madmac said: This is merely an unproven assertion on your part, and the idea that GW is going to remove an entire army from AoS just so they can bring them back a little bit later is even sillier. As I've said many times now, there is absolutely no need for GW to do anything with the AoS range in the near future. Anyone who wants to buy beastmen for TOW can do so, today, with no issue, ditto for AoS. When TOW gets around to actually releasing anything specifically for Beastmen in a couple of years then sure, they will make some old world beastmen models that won't be ported to AoS, just as AoS additions won't be available in TOW. In time the two lines will naturally diverge, but there is absolutely no crisis, no need for them to do anything at all this year to solve a nonexistent problem that only exists for people who are fuming for total separation, immediately! I wonder why you are thinking it will be a couple of years before TOW will get new Beastmen mini's. We have no idea what their plans are. It's rumoured that each 6 months two core factions get an Arcane Journal + mini's. This summer it seems to be dwarfs vs O&G, than Empire Civil war or maybe Wood Elves vs Beastmen and so on. Who knows, but at latest all core factions will have their Bretonnian / TK update in less than two years. Maybe they will do a HH releases schedule between the big updates, which also includes regular single resin mini releases. We have no idea. But saying that it will takes years for new Beastmen for TOW seems just guessing and more like telling yourself in the mirror that TOW doesn't exist and that AoS is the only GW fantasy game. . That ship has sailed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmac Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 minute ago, Tonhel said: I wonder why you are thinking it will be a couple of years before TOW will get new Beastmen mini's. We have no idea what their plans are. It's rumoured that each 6 months two core factions get an Arcane Journal + mini's. This summer it seems to be dwarfs vs O&G, than Empire Civil war or maybe Wood Elves vs Beastmen and so on. Who knows, but at latest all core factions will have their Bretonnian / TK update in less than two years. Maybe they will do a HH releases schedule between the big updates, which also includes regular single resin mini releases. We have no idea. But saying that it will takes years for new Beastmen for TOW seems just guessing and more like telling yourself in the mirror that TOW doesn't exist and that AoS is the only GW fantasy game. . That ship has sailed. I mean, even by your projection here you're saying they'll maybe release Beastmen for TOW in as soon as 18 months, and that's assuming TOW is able to maintain a two armies every six months schedule. They have 9 "core" armies in TOW, doing two of them every six months means it will take over two years just to touch every faction especially if Empire vs Empire is a double release. As for the rest, sure I'm a nutcase for not believing that Gloomspite Gits will lose a huge chunk of their range in the next few months because they're needed for TOW, and that entire armies and subfactions in AoS are going to have to be killed because TOW needs those models bro instead of assuming the two games are going to exist with minimal disruption to either side and that compromises will be made as needed. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 2 minutes ago, madmac said: I mean, even by your projection here you're saying they'll maybe release Beastmen for TOW in as soon as 18 months, and that's assuming TOW is able to maintain a two armies every six months schedule. They have 9 "core" armies in TOW, doing two of them every six months means it will take over two years just to touch every faction especially if Empire vs Empire is a double release. As for the rest, sure I'm a nutcase for not believing that Gloomspite Gits will lose a huge chunk of their range in the next few months because they're needed for TOW, and that entire armies and subfactions in AoS are going to have to be killed because TOW needs those models bro instead of assuming the two games are going to exist with minimal disruption to either side and that compromises will be made as needed. I doubt that halve a good looking range will be removed because they came officially from old world and it is back now. There’s a good chance that some models will be able to be used on more then one system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mawhis117 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 The Honest Wargamer is Streaming at the moment with AOS predictions for 2024. He's just said that he's been told that Chaos Dwarves will be coming in AOS 4, which is why they weren't included with The Old World 1 2 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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