The Rumour Thread

[Tonhel]

7 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

Even if a decade has passed, most of these kits are still used in Seraphon/SBGL/Cities/Sylvaneth armies and still look great next to the proper AoS sculpts these armies have gotten since. 

Yeah, but there isn't a single warhammer 8th edition kit that they could now do better. Imagine a new set for the Marshal on Griffon kit. The current griffon and StD manticore looks silly compared to the manticore of Thalia.

Edited December 28, 2023 by Tonhel

[Noserenda]

Dogs of War also lacked any releases in 8th afaik? They were using a compendium list from 7th (Or possibly 6th?) the whole time.

[Snarff]

6 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

Even if a decade has passed, most of these kits are still used in Seraphon/SBGL/Cities/Sylvaneth armies and still look great next to the proper AoS sculpts these armies have gotten since. 

Depends, quite a few are definitely showing their age and are not up to par anymore. (Most End-Times stuff excluded.) Dryads, grave guard, temple guard, flagellants just to name a few.

[The Lost Sigmarite]

Just now, Tonhel said:

Yeah, but there isn't a single warhammer 8th edition kit that they could now do better. Imagine a new set for the Marshal on Griffon kit. The current griffon look and StD manticor looks silly compared to the mantico of Thalia.

Chaos manticore yes, but the imperial griffon ? I have mine just next to me as I type this and it looks massive and majestic asf. It has nothing to be ashamed of compared to the new Cities minis and I'd say all it needs is an upgrade sprue with a new rider and armour plating to make it blend more with the new Cities.

[Snarff]

Just now, The Lost Sigmarite said:

Chaos manticore yes, but the imperial griffon ? I have mine just next to me as I type this and it looks massive and majestic asf. It has nothing to be ashamed of compared to the new Cities minis and I'd say all it needs is an upgrade sprue with a new rider and armour plating to make it blend more with the new Cities.

Compared to Tahlia, I do think the Griffon looks less dynamic and in general quite a bit worse. It's not a bad model, Tahlia is just that good of a model.

[Tonhel]

6 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

Chaos manticore yes, but the imperial griffon ? I have mine just next to me as I type this and it looks massive and majestic asf. It has nothing to be ashamed of compared to the new Cities minis and I'd say all it needs is an upgrade sprue with a new rider and armour plating to make it blend more with the new Cities.

Bwoi, Imo it was to fat. I never was a huge fan of it during Warhammer 8th edition. For AoS and ToW I have printed the one from Last Sword Miniatures (Björn Duke of Avernia on Griffon miniature). It's more how I imagine a griffon. But enough off topic posts of me. 😮

Edited December 28, 2023 by Tonhel

[Chikout]

1 hour ago, Tonhel said:

Lol, ok, than you shouldn't say that my post was completly false, as you were ignoring a whole edition that existed before the End times. The release list for Warhammer 8th edition + End Times is quite impressive. During 8th edition GW managed to update in 5 years all armies except Bretonnia with a new armybook and units/characters. Not single heroes releases as some AoS armies recieved. People seem to think GW released nothing before AoS. For an Idoneth player the AoS release schedule is not better than it was during Warhammer 8th edition.

I'm not sure where you're looking but beastmen, Skaven and Bretonnia didn't get an 8th edition book. The 8th edition wood elf book was their first for 9 years. Ogre kingdoms and Tomb kings went 8 years without a book. 

There were 15 Warhammer fantasy armies. 8th edition had 11 books in 5 years, 7th had 10 books in 4 years, 6th had all 15 but was a 6 year edition. From 6th to the end of fantasy GW put out an average of 2.4 army books a year. 

Since the start of 2018 gw has averaged 8 army books a year. 

As for minis 2022 was AoS's worst year for a while. There were 45 products released that year. 8th editions best year was 2013 with updates for 5 armies but only managed 35 releases. This year there have been 70 AoS releases. That's double 8th edition's best year. 

 

[Snarff]

1 hour ago, Tonhel said:

All of them, except Bretonnia got new 8th edition armybooks + mini's during warhammer 8th edition. So I don't think there is a real difference between some AoS armies and Warhammer armies.

Now I looked it up. 😉 All armies, except the poor Bretonnians received mini's and a new armybook during the 5 year lifespan of Warhammer 8th edition. The list below was alone for your armies and your friend only had bad luck with his Bretonnians. Which is fixed thanks to TOW ;-). Infact during 8th edition was not worse or better than what AoS is getting now. The huge difference is that a decade has past technology wise.

• Lizardmen - Kroq-Gar/Carnosaur/Troglodon + Saurus Scar-Veteran/Oldblood
• Lizardmen - Terradon Riders/Ripperdactyl Riders/Tiktaq'to
• Lizardmen - Bastiladon
• Lizardmen - Skink High Priest
• Lizardmen - Gor-Rok
• Lizardmen - Tetto'eko
• Lizardmen - Saurus Oldblood
• Dwarfs - Hammerers/Longbeards
• Dwarfs - Dragon Slayer
• Dwarfs - Belegar Ironhammer
• Dwarfs - Ironbreakers/Irondrakes
• Dwarfs - Gyrocopter/Gyrobomber
• Dwarfs - Runelord
• Dwarfs - Grimm Burloksson
• Vampire Counts - Coven Throne/Mortis Engine
• Vampire Counts - Black Knights/Hexwraiths
• Vampire Counts - Vargheists/Crypt Horrors
• Vampire Counts - Wight King
• Vampire Counts - Krell
• Vampire Counts - Isabella von Carstein
• Wood Elves - Treeman/Treeman Ancient/Durthu
• Wood Elves - Araloth
• Wood Elves - Wild Riders/Sisters of the Thorn
• Wood Elves - Eternal Guard/Wildwood Rangers

I would beg to differ though. This completely fails to take into account how many more armies AoS supports compared to WFB, and the fact that AoS got armies introduced in addition to at least giving one hero per addition to all existing armies.

Even with much fewer armies, WFB could not even give an army book to all of them in a 5 year edition. AoS is supporting 24 (or more depending on how you count them) with at the very least one new model and a brand new book each 3 year edition, with more and more armies getting range expansions/updates regularly.

Not to mention the sidegames also supporting armies. Warcry offering (very nice) units to use in AoS and Underworlds offering units (or at least new hero sculpts if you don't want to use them as units).

I'd argue we're in a much better time for releases now, even if some armies (including my FS and KO) have to wait a little longer for large range expansions.

[Gitzdee]

Just want to add to this conversation that the communication/new/updates now is much much much better than how it used to be in whfb times. It was radio silence most of the time. I wont say they cant do better now, but it used to be so much worse.

We also get regular updates/faqs to keep book viable now. Havent seen many completely useless books for a while now.

[Ejecutor]

During this discussion Dogs of War has been mentioned. I guess this doesn't count as a faction per se, right? If so, do you guys expect to have some sort of mercenaries range , that is outside of any faction, available for AoS?

[Snarff]

14 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

During this discussion Dogs of War has been mentioned. I guess this doesn't count as a faction per se, right? If so, do you guys expect to have some sort of mercenaries range , that is outside of any faction, available for AoS?

I don't expect to ever get a Dogs of War equivalent, I think Regiments of Renown fills that role.

[Tonhel]

1 hour ago, Chikout said:

I'm not sure where you're looking but beastmen, Skaven and Bretonnia didn't get an 8th edition book. The 8th edition wood elf book was their first for 9 years. Ogre kingdoms and Tomb kings went 8 years without a book. 

There were 15 Warhammer fantasy armies. 8th edition had 11 books in 5 years, 7th had 10 books in 4 years, 6th had all 15 but was a 6 year edition. From 6th to the end of fantasy GW put out an average of 2.4 army books a year. 

Since the start of 2018 gw has averaged 8 army books a year. 

As for minis 2022 was AoS's worst year for a while. There were 45 products released that year. 8th editions best year was 2013 with updates for 5 armies but only managed 35 releases. This year there have been 70 AoS releases. That's double 8th edition's best year. 

 

Yes, I mentioned Bretonnia in my first post. Skaven and Beastmen were the two big releases at the end of 7th edition. But during 8th edition all armies except Bretonnia got miniature releases and it was more than a single hero. But yes, as I corrected myself a couple of posts ago Skaven, Beastmen and Bretonnia didn't get a Warhammer 8th edition armybook. 

The last couple of years GW releases a lot more than ever before. Even the amount of 40K releases released now aren't comparable with the 40K releases from more than a decade ago. Add the plastic kits released for Warcry, Underworlds, Kill Team, Necromunda and etc.. the total of plastic sets released since a couple of years is mindblowing. 

It were different times. It was the end of the reign of Kirby and their crazy plans they had for AoS 1 in the beginning. (only 4 pages of rules, no battletomes, only warscrolls and etc..) Horrible. ;-). Lucky everything changed when the reign of Roundtree started. 😉

But despite of this, I do think the Warhammer fantasy releases between 2009 and 2015 were good and imo comperable to what is released now. Each army except Bretonnia got their good share of releases.

1 hour ago, Snarff said:

I would beg to differ though. This completely fails to take into account how many more armies AoS supports compared to WFB, and the fact that AoS got armies introduced in addition to at least giving one hero per addition to all existing armies.

Even with much fewer armies, WFB could not even give an army book to all of them in a 5 year edition. AoS is supporting 24 (or more depending on how you count them) with at the very least one new model and a brand new book each 3 year edition, with more and more armies getting range expansions/updates regularly.

Not to mention the sidegames also supporting armies. Warcry offering (very nice) units to use in AoS and Underworlds offering units (or at least new hero sculpts if you don't want to use them as units).

I'd argue we're in a much better time for releases now, even if some armies (including my FS and KO) have to wait a little longer for large range expansions.

Different times. Current GW would handle Warhammer totally different than like they did more than a decade ago. Advancement of technology and production capabilities are very different.

My regular opponent plays Idoneth. He played Dark Elves and Lizardmen during Warhammer. For him miniature support wise the difference between 8th edition and now is minimal. He still has no clue when his army will receive new mini's. He doesn't play Underworlds and isn't a huge fan of the AoS rules for those small warband units. We all hope that Idoneth will receive a second wave, but will it be in 2024, 2025 or later. Who knows.   So no, even with all the advancements GW made, he is still in the same spot as he was playing Warhammer. Having no clue if / when his army will receive new mini's. 

 

1 hour ago, Gitzdee said:

Just want to add to this conversation that the communication/new/updates now is much much much better than how it used to be in whfb times. It was radio silence most of the time. I wont say they cant do better now, but it used to be so much worse.

We also get regular updates/faqs to keep book viable now. Havent seen many completely useless books for a while now.

100% agree. GW is now much more open, previews a lot more. But this is a choice they had to make, because how they handled their company since the LotR bubble bursted GW was going downhill fast (profits and shares). If they did the same during Warhammer 8th edition, things would probably have been different.

Edited December 28, 2023 by Tonhel

[Snarff]

57 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

My regular opponent plays Idoneth. He played Dark Elves and Lizardmen during Warhammer. For him miniature support wise the difference between 8th edition and now is minimal. He still has no clue when his army will receive new mini's. He doesn't play Underworlds and isn't a huge fan of the AoS rules for those small warband units. We all hope that Idoneth will receive a second wave, but will it be in 2024, 2025 or later. Who knows.   So no, even with all the advancements GW made, he is still in the same spot as he was playing Warhammer. Having no clue if / when his army will receive new mini's.

Even if he chooses to ignore the two underworlds warbands the army did get, IDK still got a new hero opening up new synergies, updated rules for every edition (the 1st edition tome was clearly made with 2nd in mind) that made a lot more units viable than at release, FAQs, point changes with each GHB and rule updates with Broken realms.

IDK have already got 3 mini releases since their release (4 if you count Lorai in the Blacktalons, which I personally don't). The consistency with which the Idoneth receive lore focus also points to an update sooner rather than later.

I really think it's a whole different (and much better) situation in AoS if you look at the full picture. Even if you choose to ignore Underworlds (if you don't count them due to rule quality every unit/hero with bad rules should not be counted as a release), theres still been a battletome and hero release while the army has only existed for 5 years which is shorter than some WFB editions.

Edited December 28, 2023 by Snarff

[Tonhel]

6 minutes ago, Snarff said:

Even if he chooses to ignore the two underworlds warbands the army did get, IDK still got a new hero opening up new synergies, updated rules for every edition (the 1st edition tome was clearly made with 2nd in mind) that made a lot more units viable than at release, FAQs, point changes with each GHB and rule updates with Broken realms.

IDK have already got 3 mini releases since their release (4 if you count Lorai in the Blacktalons, which I personally don't). The consistency with which the Idoneth receive lore focus also points to an update sooner rather than later.

I really think it's a whole different (and much better) situation in AoS if you look at the full picture. Even if you choose to ignore Underworlds (if you don't count them due to rule quality every unit/hero with bad rules should not be counted as a release), theres still been a battletome and hero release while the army has only existed for 5 years which is shorter than some WFB editions.

One of my armies is StD. I buy all the Underworld warbands that has StD/BoK/MoN mini's and I use them. I also bought Blacktalons, purely because I find the mini's extremely cool. I was planning to use them in my CoS army, but when doing some test builds in the app. I came to the conclusion it's not so easy to fit them in. We will see. For me as player/collector that buys way to much GW, historical mini's and is subscribed to way to many patreons/tribes. (After two years.. I have more stls than I will ever print. It's a bit ridiculous.). I have zero problem how GW does their releases as I have to restrain myself to not buy the new AoS mini's with each new release. Each release blows me away. But my friend is total the opposite. He invested in Idoneth and n,othing else from AoS. He has a completly painted army. Lol, I have lots of different painted mini's from historicals to fantasy, but zero fully painted armies. Thus for my friend who only wants a new AoS Idoneth release, preferable some new monsters or maybe crab heavy cavalry (endless possibilities), the release schedule for Idoneth is exactly the same as it was during his Warhammer times. One proper release and than the wait. Which could come quickly (Luminth) or very late (Ironjawz).

Yes, the thrallmaster made the Namarti units more deadly and gave some more build options. But for the potential Idoneth has, it was a very boring release. The Underworld releases for Idoneth are beautiful and cool, but from an AoS army perspective it doesn't add anything to the army. Yeah, the crab and the octopus are very cool, but I think Idoneth players would prefer a proper new unit through an AoS release and not through a side game.

 

[michu]

Expecting big updates to all factions for each edition is ridiculous. GW has more games than AoS and they also need their updates. And there are more important things to update than Idoneth (Skaven anyone?).

[Noserenda]

2 hours ago, Ejecutor said:

During this discussion Dogs of War has been mentioned. I guess this doesn't count as a faction per se, right? If so, do you guys expect to have some sort of mercenaries range , that is outside of any faction, available for AoS?

It certainly used to, but The Old World team didnt want them to be so *poof*. But they had a full line up of generic units for a few editions on top of the regiments of renown so they were just as much of a faction as anyone else. 

I suspect from the little we have seen the Mercenaries in ToW will be a list of units you can take from other faction lists, possibly with some small changes. So a Border Prince Bombard will be an Empire great cannon (see Empire list) which at least gives us a tiny benefit to slapping all the core lists in one book.

[RuneBrush]

+++MOD HAT+++

Can we get back onto rumours please rather than rambling about The Old World?  Please remember this is an AoS based forum

[Tonhel]

22 minutes ago, michu said:

Expecting big updates to all factions for each edition is ridiculous. GW has more games than AoS and they also need their updates. And there are more important things to update than Idoneth (Skaven anyone?).

Well they also received the one hero and two warbands update. Same as Idoneth. The only difference is that everything points to a huge Skaven release in 6-8 months.

[Hollow]

I'm torn on the issue of faction support. Whilst I agree that logistically it is perhaps unrealistic to expect significant updates to all 24 factions across an edition cycle, I do think that GW could approach faction "content" across an edition in a more engaging manner and not leave outlying kits within specific ranges languishing for years at a time. (How long do you think it will take for them to get around to updating the Saurus Oldblood and Saurus Guard kit to match the quality of the rest of the range? The Oldblood is still listed on the store on a square base!) 

I'd like to see them move away from the "Battletome + Hero" update meta they have been on for a while and instead go for a "Battletome + Unit kit"

 

[cyrus]

5 hours ago, EonChao said:

I've not watched the stream but even then it's a 3rd party source. GW hasn't mentioned a preview, and LVO hasn't listed tickets for a preview for sale on their website so it is, for all intensive purposes, likely but not confirmed. 

Do you think it is enough as a confirmation ?

[Mutton]

I find it interesting that we haven't heard any rumors about HOW 4th edition will change the game. Even if it isn't a total revamp, almost all edition shifts drastically change the way we play. 

Will we get new generic commands?
Will army construction change?
Will we finally get rid of the god awful battle tactic system?

[Ragest]

14 minutes ago, Mutton said:

I find it interesting that we haven't heard any rumors about HOW 4th edition will change the game. Even if it isn't a total revamp, almost all edition shifts drastically change the way we play. 

Will we get new generic commands?
Will army construction change?
Will we finally get rid of the god awful battle tactic system?

AoS doesn't have leaks, just wf hints, so is hard to get rumor about anything.

[Doko]

6 hours ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

Chaos manticore yes, but the imperial griffon ? I have mine just next to me as I type this and it looks massive and majestic asf. It has nothing to be ashamed of compared to the new Cities minis and I'd say all it needs is an upgrade sprue with a new rider and armour plating to make it blend more with the new Cities.

yes i agres, in fact the thalia is who looks silly if i compare to the gryfon,and worse if we know that gryfon is 55€ and thalia 120€ but the gryfon looks better and is bigger than thalia

[Doko]

5 hours ago, Snarff said:

Even with much fewer armies, WFB could not even give an army book to all of them in a 5 year edition. AoS is supporting 24 (or more depending on how you count them) with at the very least one new model and a brand new book each 3 year edition, with more and more armies getting range expansions/updates regularly

my fyreslayers getting only one new unit in 8 years is worse than many fantasy armys as support of new units.

 

i really dont mind or want new books,i preffer get new units and not only useless foot heroes and books

Edited December 28, 2023 by Doko

[EonChao]

2 hours ago, cyrus said:

Do you think it is enough as a confirmation ?

 

Obviously, that's from an actual official source. Maybe lead with that next time