The Rumour Thread

[Jagged Red Lines]

7 minutes ago, Gitzdee said:

Soulblight Gravelords lost a bunch of old models but are imho one of the best looking armies in all of the mortal realms at the moment. I would jump for joy if they got rid of bonesplitterz and spiderfang and replaced them with modern sculpts. 

It's no way the same. They're removing factions from within an army. 

It's like if they removed the entirety of spiderfang from gitz - not just updated a few units. People will burble 'totally justified, they didn't fit the aesthetic'.

But that doesn't help those who have an entire spiderfang army.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Jagged Red Lines

[novakai]

realistically every model eventually goes out of production with enough time, inventory is limited, and things can't stay in production forever. doesn't mean your old models are obsolete when they retired there are always uses for them. 

the expectation is that products don't stay on forever and old things are not necessarily going to be redone/ revamped every time models are retired.

Edited December 1, 2022 by novakai

[NauticalSoup]

8 minutes ago, Jagged Red Lines said:

By your own logic, more than half of the stormcast range should be squatted.

As a stormcast player, this but ironically haha

These days I am nearly always proxying my sacrosanct units as their strike chamber counterparts, no real reason to branch out when the warscrolls are so boring 😛

[novakai]

TBF they did also wreck everyone's Legion of the First Prince army just recently, even if those indivdual units and models can be used elsewhere but it does hurt if you bought that army to play in AoS and expected to not be totally kapoot

[Flippy]

44 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

wit the talk of squatting (bretonnianing) picking up again, I really wish there was a customer respecting policy on this. My preference would be to either provide a new home in different armies for models going away (which in itself is a second best, but at least it's something) or an official equivalence of the models which should trump WYSIWYG rules and the like.

The official equivalence of the models is a really good idea. Really good.

[CommissarRotke]

23 minutes ago, Jagged Red Lines said:

If you can find where GW said that the current Cities book was temporary pending a full squatting, I'd appreciate you pointing that out to me.

Not at all what I said or meant You know as well as I do that GW doesn't tell us jack. Which is another reason to not be surprised by this rumor.

The older a model is, the more chance it has to become a proxy instead of a current model. This was happening even in WHF when people would bring older elf and human models instead of buying the refreshed/new plastic versions.

If your new book has warscrolls that older models can slide into even as WYSIWYG, you can still use those older models for as long as you want. The only GW rule against models is no non-GW models at tournaments.

The now-COS models were all old, no one really knew what was happening with them aside from the Legends Warscrolls.

When COS got announced as a way to ACTUALLY use those legends units in AOS, it was more about GW giving older armies a legitimate play book and providing another mortal army based on the new Order cities' lore. There was never any guarantee the old models would stay, only that you would be able to use those models via proxy.

[Ogregut]

From the age of sigmar fb page with the tag line - the dawn of something new. 

Seems a novel or new series about the dawnbringer crusades maybe. 

[willange]

Models getting replaced with newer sculpts is not something I think anyone fears.

It's models losing warscrolls with no replacements that people dislike.  

[novakai]

2 minutes ago, Ogregut said:

From the age of sigmar fb page with the tag line - the dawn of something new. 

Seems a novel or new series about the dawnbringer crusades maybe. 

isn't it Horus heresy? I see the Imperial Aquila on the forehead

Edited December 1, 2022 by novakai

[RyantheFett]

I also like the idea of them just condensing the other races to 2 or 3 units sort of LRL and their subfactions. That would of got rid of the bloat, kept the diversity, and would allow for a lot easy of proxies.

If the rumors are true then the big red flag is still the removal of the wood elves. That raises a lot of questions.

Also not sure why the SC would be the sole thing saving so many units???? 

[Gitzdee]

30 minutes ago, Jagged Red Lines said:

It's no way the same. They're removing factions from within an army. 

It's like if they removed the entirety of spiderfang from gitz - not just updated a few units. People will burble 'totally justified, they didn't fit the aesthetic'.

But that doesn't help those who have an entire spiderfang army.

We dont know anything yet. U kinda talk about this like its a fact that factions just get simply removed without anything in return. But lets pretend they will do this because they have done so before. They removed a bunch of my orks, goblins and snotlings when AoS happened. Yes that wasnt fun but we got Ironjawz and now Kruleboyz in return and i think they are one of the best looking orruks. I rather buy new awesome models than 10+ year old ones.

[willange]

4 minutes ago, Gitzdee said:

We dont know anything yet. U kinda talk about this like its a fact that factions just get simply removed without anything in return. But lets pretend they will do this because they have done so before. They removed a bunch of my orks, goblins and snotlings when AoS happened. Yes that wasnt fun but we got Ironjawz and now Kruleboyz in return and i think they are one of the best looking orruks. I rather buy new awesome models than 10+ year old ones.

I think the lack on transparency here is a problem though.  Imagine if when gitmobs were squatted they said, "but don't worry, in coming years we'll have more on this group of plains-roaming gitz!", then we'd be a lot less worried.  On the other hand you have stuff like Swifthawk Agents that are still mentioned in lore from time to time and yet were bretton'd and we have no clues as to whether they'll come back.  I agree with the thrust of what you're saying, but it's hard to be positive without the transparency for many folks.  

Myself, again, I'm not too worried.  I love my CoS, but I have so many armies that losing part of one won't be a crippling blow to my enjoyment of the game.  For others, however, that will feel very different.

[SunStorm]

12 minutes ago, Ogregut said:

From the age of sigmar fb page with the tag line - the dawn of something new. 

Seems a novel or new series about the dawnbringer crusades maybe. 

That looks like a Sisters of Silence mask on the skull, so I'd guess it's HH related. 

[Jagged Red Lines]

49 minutes ago, novakai said:

realistically every model eventually goes out of production with enough time, inventory is limited, and things can't stay in production forever

After the initial move from old world to AoS, I can't think of another faction where they've been so casual about removing warscrolls. 

Heck, ogor kingdoms got to keep yhetees and frostsabres and they're ancient.

I think the poison wind globadiers are still in the skaven book and those models were released in the early 90s.

For every other faction, the presumption is always that GW will keep old sculpts and update them one day. Not that they'll just remove the warscroll.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Jagged Red Lines

[RyantheFett]

3 minutes ago, Gitzdee said:

But lets pretend they will do this because they have done so before. They removed a bunch of my orks, goblins and snotlings when AoS happened. Yes that wasnt fun but we got Ironjawz and now Kruleboyz in return and i think they are one of the best looking orruks. I rather buy new awesome models than 10+ year old ones.

Think the issue a lot of people are trying to come to terms with is the signs that the faction is turning from a muti race faction into a mostly human army. The new models will be amazing, but a lot of people got into the faction for the diversity. And a human refresh was needed, but the way they been doing this has not really been fun lol.

The line about the SC boxes being the only thing saving dwarfs and some dark elves is also a bit worrying.

[Ganigumo]

16 hours ago, Talas said:

A guy is posting a bunch of info in AoS Coach Discord:

1. GHB rumors about small heroes are true.
2. Dawnbringer crusade is the spring Order release.
3. Seraphon in summer.
4. Freeguild is being replaced by all new sigmarite mortals. Phoenix Temple, old Dark Elves and Dispossesed stay. Everyting else is gone.
5. New Khorne rules are playtesting way too strong.

Disclamer: I'm not in Coach's Discord, I got these from another Discord. If someone could give us a better view, I'd appreciate it.

This rumor stinks.
1. Has been a rumor around for a while
2. We normally get a spring model release, but this one is the first in spring, probably march, but don't we usually get the spring release later than that? Especially since they need to squeeze 4 other books into spring.
3. guess.
4. Wanderers leaving is wierd, they're some of the better looking models in the range.
5. Khorne book is already finalized by now, probably printed as well. There's at least a 6 month leadup between finalizing & getting the physical books into stores, so khorne should've been being playtested around july-september, october at the latest.

[madmac]

1 minute ago, RyantheFett said:

Think the issue a lot of people are trying to come to terms with is the signs that the faction is turning from a muti race faction into a mostly human army. The new models will be amazing, but a lot of people got into the faction for the diversity. And a human refresh was needed, but the way they been doing this has not really been fun lol.

The line about the SC boxes being the only thing saving dwarfs and some dark elves is also a bit worrying.

I understand where they are coming from, but personally, I never felt reassured by the existence of CoS that High Elves, Wanderers, etc were going to stick around long term. Frankly I felt at the start it would be a temporary home for the non-human races, but it's been three years since then and GW has shown no inclination to shuffle things around even when it would make sense, so my new assumption is that they will simply phase out the old non-human models and replace them with new ranges as we've seen with High Elves-LRL, minus the puzzling continued inclusion of Phoenix Temple. They might keep a token presence of non-human factions but I don't expect and never did expect the multi-cultural approach to last.

The reasoning for my skepticism is quite simple actually. It's one thing for GW to keep around these old models for another couple of years, but the only way Wanderers, Dispossessed and Phoenix Temple have/had a future in CoS is if GW was planning to make new models for those races, as part of CoS and not as their own thing and I still think that's an almost impossible dream, again barring a token elf or dwarf here and there.

[Jagged Red Lines]

2 minutes ago, madmac said:

I never felt reassured by the existence of CoS that High Elves, Wanderers, etc were going to stick around long term.

They have created narrative for them. They have as much justification in the fluff as beastclaw, skaven, beasts of chaos or any of the other old world factions.

[novakai]

It may be an age thing that they are keeping Disspossed and dark elves around because i believe they are newer fantasy kits

the theory could be that every time GW releases an AoS version of an old fantasy army the models get removed.

it did feel that the removal of the High elves was planned out for the eventual arrival of the Lumineath Realmlords.

Maybe Wanderers are getting replaced by Kurnothi, Dark elves with whatever comes out with Malerion, Phoenix Temple replace with Tyrion, Dwarfs with Grugni release, 

CoS is mostly turned to being a Human army (which people complain that AoS needed) but has a strong coalition rules with these other new armies to still be mixed race 

 

[madmac]

3 minutes ago, Jagged Red Lines said:

They have created narrative for them. They have as much justification in the fluff as beastclaw, skaven, beasts of chaos or any of the other old world factions.

They created narrative for SwiftHawk Agents too, heck they still get name checked in the lore but those models are long gone.

[Gitzdee]

44 minutes ago, madmac said:

They created narrative for SwiftHawk Agents too, heck they still get name checked in the lore but those models are long gone.

Gitmob and Grotbag Scuttlers are mentioned a bunch in the Gitz tome and Spiderfang should be just as big an army as Moonclan. But i dont see any models there. I see it as a chance of getting new models in the future. 

I really love what they have done with the new Snarlfang unit. I see a lot of potential for new Wanderers, dark elves and dwarves. I just dont think keeping the old models around is the way to do it.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Gitzdee

[Ogregut]

1 hour ago, novakai said:

isn't it Horus heresy? I see the Imperial Aquila on the forehead

Ah good spot, didn't see that! 

[KingBrodd]

2 hours ago, Jagged Red Lines said:

Actually, there's not a lot of bloat. There are 50 warscrolls - broadly in line with slaves to darkness (52 I believe) and gloomspite (51). 

Also, it's nothing compared to stormcast (78 warscrolls) which has almost as many leader warscrolls (38) as the entirety of the cities army.

And honestly, I find it a bit rich for someone to say 'I don't like to look at your army' as justification for vast amounts of it to be binned.

GW has done plenty of 'soft squatting' recently, with stormcast as already mentioned, but also in ogors and slaves to darkness. There's no reason they shouldn't keep the warscrolls valid and allow people to continue to play with their miniatures. 

I guess I didnt word my statement correctly. I dont want COS to turn to a Human only Faction, I want all the minis to be updated within. But that does mean getting rid of older models regardless of race.

I want updated Humans, Aelves and Duardin!!

[JerekKruger]

1 hour ago, novakai said:

isn't it Horus heresy? I see the Imperial Aquila on the forehead

It's the skull of a sister of silence. That's clearly one if their face plates.

[Gothmaug]

1 hour ago, Jagged Red Lines said:

It wasn't expected. It wasn't announced as 'stop gap'. It was a fully fledged battletome, and the army was supported with Black Library fiction.

None of the 6,000 points of cities models that I have were inherited from the old world. All of them were bought on the assumption that these models were a permanent part of the range.

If you can find where GW said that the current Cities book was temporary pending a full squatting, I'd appreciate you pointing that out to me.

I totally understand your pain if the current rumors are true, and some CoS models are being retired. And no, GW never said CoS was a stop gap, but many people assumed it was a bargain-bin attempt to keep a bunch of old world models in circulation for just a bit longer. Now the dawnbringer crusade is coming, and I imagine it will lead to another re-shuffle and retirement of older kits. 

One thing about having an army of really old models, is you kind of expect they will eventually be retired and replaced with something new and shiny. I've watched my Original "greenskinz" army get segmented into Ironjawz, Bonesplitters, and gloomspite, with Gitmob and old world greenskinz casualties along the way (still not sure how bonesplitters survived). GW doesn't care about the models we already have, they care about the new ones we'll buy in the future. Even Space Marines, the flagship of the company, are slowly having the older non-primaris models phased out. I wouldn't be surprised if they were retired with next year's new edition.

The point is, Its terrible when GW revises a battletome and retires a bunch of models. But it happens all the time, and its something we need to be aware of as a community of players and collectors. On the other hand, away from the tournament scene, there's no such thing as retired models. Our local meta, plays with "legend" units quite frequently. The player submits an updated warscroll for the new edition, a couple of us comment on it, then its back in play. Right now "Mounted Orruk Warboss" and Soulblight "Bat Swarms" see a fair amount of play, and they've been officially retired for years. Just because GW thinks you should play a certain way, doesn't mean you have to 😎