The Rumour Thread

[chosen_of_khaine]

30 minutes ago, Gothmaug said:

If Marines make up 40% of your annual sales, you make more marines, that's just pure business. If tyrranids sold as well as space marine's, you'd see a lot more of them.

And if they didn't keep churning out new marines every edition, they wouldn't make up 40% of their annual sales. It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

Look at how many people picked up Necrons after they got a massive overhaul, they were (and maybe still are) by far the most popular xenos faction when 9th released. And you didn't have to look far for people saying "I'd love to start an Eldar army but half the range is finecast" before their recent update. GW can choose to make 40k less Space Marine centric any time they want, but they won't.

Edited July 19, 2022 by chosen_of_khaine

[MitGas]

2 hours ago, Gothmaug said:

If Marines make up 40% of your annual sales, you make more marines, that's just pure business. If tyrranids sold as well as space marine's, you'd see a lot more of them.

 

These days im a little burned out of the 40K edition wars and powercreep. Our local group has been playing OnePageRules for the last few months. We can still use our 40K models (or AOS), and can get a game done in an hour, allowing for multiple matches in an evening. Its been really nice. 

On the other hand we still play AoS. We find the system more balanced than 40K. 

 

Yeah, the 40k rules are a drag tbh. It‘s why I always argue against AoS getting more complex. Personally I‘m not a big fan of the direction 3rd ed went in rule-wise. It makes sense but ultimately it was awesome that AoS was quite easy to play, especially for new players. Too many rules are not fun at first. 
 

Unfortunately I don't have a solution for a good balance. But the best games are easy to learn and hard to master (chess e.g.), so that‘s what I always hope for the GW systems… oh and why did they use symbols instead of numbers in killteam? That one eludes me too, really. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Edited July 19, 2022 by MitGas

[MitGas]

sorry, double post

Edited July 19, 2022 by MitGas

[Ogregut]

27 minutes ago, chosen_of_khaine said:

And if they didn't keep churning out new marines every edition, they wouldn't make up 40% of their annual sales. It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

Look at how many people picked up Necrons after they got a massive overhaul, they were (and maybe still are) by far the most popular xenos faction when 9th released. And you didn't have to look far for people saying "I'd love to start an Eldar army but half the range is finecast" before their recent update. GW can choose to make 40k less Space Marine centric any time they want, but they won't.

Like it or not marines have a massive fan base and I can see why. 

It's a striking looking army when painted with the bold colours and pleasing geometric silhouettes. 

They are also easy to paint and a great model line to learn and master painting techniques, such as edge highlighting, panel lining and drybrushing. 

I don't know much about the rules as I don't play 40k but I guess they are a forgiving force to play. 

I've no issue with marines being released fairly regularly as they sell so well, it's allows for model lines to be released that may not sell as well or are much slower to recoup their design and production cost, genestealer cults for example. 

There is also a huge amount of hyperbole about space marines (and stormcast) releases. 

40k has seen big releases for sisters, mechinicum, orks, necrons, eldar and choas the past 2/3 years and we have squats coming up. 

 

[Sarges]

4 hours ago, Lord Veshnakar said:

As an alternative, what if this is a banner pole, and the mace end is actually the end of the banner cross section and this is someone's arm chained up with perhaps their back flayed and presented like below. So maybe Kruleboyz or Slaves to Darkness? Its just such an awkward pose for that to be a weapon being wielded IMHO. 

Did somebody say Devoted of Sigmar?

[zilberfrid]

3 hours ago, Ogregut said:

Like it or not marines have a massive fan base and I can see why. 

It's a striking looking army when painted with the bold colours and pleasing geometric silhouettes. 

They are also easy to paint and a great model line to learn and master painting techniques, such as edge highlighting, panel lining and drybrushing. 

I don't know much about the rules as I don't play 40k but I guess they are a forgiving force to play. 

I've no issue with marines being released fairly regularly as they sell so well, it's allows for model lines to be released that may not sell as well or are much slower to recoup their design and production cost, genestealer cults for example. 

There is also a huge amount of hyperbole about space marines (and stormcast) releases. 

40k has seen big releases for sisters, mechinicum, orks, necrons, eldar and choas the past 2/3 years and we have squats coming up. 

 

Do we really need separate models for a slightly fancier space fascist with some 63 loadouts? How many Primaris luitenants exist?

Also, are you sure space marines don't outstrip non-imperium releases?

I really don't see the appeal in space marines. Or early stormcast. They are such incredibly generic comic book super soldiers.

[Sahrial]

6 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

Do we really need separate models for a slightly fancier space fascist with some 63 loadouts? How many Primaris luitenants exist?

Also, are you sure space marines don't outstrip non-imperium releases?

I really don't see the appeal in space marines. Or early stormcast. They are such incredibly generic comic book super soldiers.

Same but other people do love them, so we’ll continue seeing them. The friend I play AoS with most is one of those people that gets super hyped for them.

[zilberfrid]

6 minutes ago, Sahrial said:

 

Sorry double post

Edited July 19, 2022 by zilberfrid

[zilberfrid]

1 minute ago, Sahrial said:

Same but other people do love them, so we’ll continue seeing them. The friend I play AoS with most is one of those people that gets super hyped for them.

I do agree they serve some function, and they have enough variety for two 10 model infantry kits (one normal including 30k, one heavy, heroes can be made from that). All their vehicles are just boxes with wheels or tracks and no ground clearance, so fancy painted toddlers wooden blocks will do.

Which is better than Fyreslayers, who have enough variety for one 10 model infantry kit and the magmadroth.

[Ogregut]

2 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

Do we really need separate models for a slightly fancier space fascist with some 63 loadouts? How many Primaris luitenants exist?

Also, are you sure space marines don't outstrip non-imperium releases?

I really don't see the appeal in space marines. Or early stormcast. They are such incredibly generic comic book super soldiers.

A few LT models exist but AFAIK only 2 can be bought right now. 

No, I have no evidence to say marines out sell other factions, but having worked for GW I know I sold more marines than anything else. 

And its fine you don't see the appeal of marines or stormcast, there are many other factions, there is a lot of choice but just because you don't like something, it doesn't automatically make it a bad thing. 

[Jaskier]

3 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

Do we really need separate models for a slightly fancier space fascist with some 63 loadouts? How many Primaris luitenants exist?

Also, are you sure space marines don't outstrip non-imperium releases?

I really don't see the appeal in space marines. Or early stormcast. They are such incredibly generic comic book super soldiers.

The last time I worked for GW, it was a known fact that Space Marines - not counting the kits from offshoots like Grey Knights, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, their Chaos alternatives, etc - just Space Marines made up roughly half of all GW's total sales. As much as we always clamor for them to do more with other 40k factions, the reality is even when factions get the Dark Eldar treatment (i.e. a near complete range update) they still don't come anywhere close to Space Marines in terms of sales. It's just the nature of the beast, and the Space Marine centric nature of 40k will never change unless they find a good monetary reason to do so. 

I'm thankful AoS doesn't really suffer that issue; Stormcast get a lot obviously but we've gotten so much non-Stormcast stuff since AoS launched that I can't really complain. 

Edited July 20, 2022 by Jaskier

[zilberfrid]

2 hours ago, Ogregut said:

A few LT models exist but AFAIK only 2 can be bought right now. 

No, I have no evidence to say marines out sell other factions, but having worked for GW I know I sold more marines than anything else. 

And its fine you don't see the appeal of marines or stormcast, there are many other factions, there is a lot of choice but just because you don't like something, it doesn't automatically make it a bad thing. 

 

2 hours ago, Jaskier said:

The last time I worked for GW, it was a known fact that Space Marines - not counting the kits from offshoots like Grey Knights, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, their Chaos alternatives, etc - just Space Marines made up roughly half of all GW's total sales. As much as we always clamor for them to do more with other 40k factions, the reality is even when factions get the Dark Eldar treatment (i.e. a near complete range update) they still don't come anywhere close to Space Marines in terms of sales. It's just the nature of the beast, and the Space Marine centric nature of 40k will never change unless they find a good monetary reason to do so. 

I'm thankful AoS doesn't really suffer that issue; Stormcast get a lot obviously but we've gotten so much non-Stormcast stuff since AoS launched that I can't really complain. 

I'm not talking about sales, I'm talking about new sets, marketing rule support (though this is also marketing) and retail space. The effort wasted on space marines that could have gone into something interesting.

"If you build it, they will come". If GW makes new sets, puts them in shops and points their marketing efforts into a faction (including fiction books and stuff like animation), people will buy it.

In AoS, Lumineth received this, and they sell well (in the store I frequent). Admech and Sisters receive some, and look at that, they sell well. Space marines get more, and they sell more. That shop still has two of their original order of Fyreslayers start collecting boxes.

If GW does not put any effort into a faction (rule support of factions has improved, so mostly fiction and new sets), does not let people know it exists and doesn't even allow the models in stores (both their own physical and third party), they do not sell well.

Now granted, I might have an unreasonable dislike of space marines being portrayed as heroes, stoked again recently by a conversation about inclusivity with a lovely fellow with the youtube username "National Socialist" that unsurprisingly played space fascists.

GW marketing to literal ****** will never feel right to me.

[Jaskier]

I mean, that's fair, but it's not like other factions in 40k never get the limelight. As you mentioned, Sororitas got a huge sustained marketing campaign, a big 'preview' limited box set, and a decent chunk of store space for what ended up being a near complete overhaul of their entire range from metal/finecast into plastic. The same has happened recently (as in past five years) for Necrons, Genestealer Cult, Death Guard, Chaos Space Marines (the previous big set of releases) and even recently with Eldar. It wasn't that long ago we were reading weekly hype articles for Eldar a long ways out from their full release. 

I think the issue is that even despite those big releases, while those armies will absolutely sell more now than if they didn't get the attention, they almost certainly still aren't even in the same conversation as Space Marines as far as popularity or sales metrics are concerned. It's hard to say if years and years of sustained support will ever rein in the imbalance but that's just the way it is, and it's why Space Marines will continue getting the lion's share of model support and attention. 

To note, I'm not arguing with you in terms of what I want GW to do or think they should do, just offering perspective on why they do it. 

As a side-note, I would say there are absolutely heroic Space Marines, either individuals (like Dante) or chapters (Salamanders and Crimson Fists come to mind) but they very much are the exception and not the rule. 

Edited July 20, 2022 by Jaskier

[zilberfrid]

Do note that I group spiky marines and 30k marines in the same box as regular space marines.

Though the nurgle ones and the new ones are not entirely a waste of designer hours.

[Gitzdee]

On 3/14/2022 at 8:52 AM, Gitzdee said:

I think this is a fun conversation. I want to expand upon a post i made a while back.

Lets look at these races again with the new information we have.
1. Magmadroth lists became a thing and the also mention OGORS.
2. Shaggoth rumour engine?.
3. Skaven and Sylvaneth rumour by Whitefang.
It seems like GW is following the list of Ghur races at the moment. Could a new army or race be one of these listed here?  

Scourge Privateers
Great Worms
Vurm-tai nomads
Hunter-tribes of the Great Coil
Treestriders of the Gnarlwood
Sankrit
Sunwyrm

Edit: 4. Treestriders of the Gnarlwood: Tribesfolk who reside in a deadly forest of groping vines, hunting strange species and gathering medicinal herbs.
This also looks like it could be one of these.



Edit2 : Aetar could also be a thing this edition.
https://ageofsigmar.lexicanum.com/wiki/Aetar 

Just want to expand upon this idea i had a while back. Seems like GW is stil releasing things from the Ghur races list Including Gnarlwood. We also have a rumour engine about Scourge Privateers. And Skaven and Sylvaneth did get a release. Are we getting all the good stuff? Sunwyrm as the big monster/dragon this edition perhaps?

(Edit: dont know how to quote the first post i made with the full list)

Edited July 20, 2022 by Gitzdee

[Nezzhil]

8 minutes ago, Gitzdee said:

Just want to expand upon this idea i had a while back. Seems like GW is stil releasing things from the Ghur races list Including Gnarlwood. We also have a rumour engine about Scourge Privateers. And Skaven and Sylvaneth did get a release. Are we getting all the good stuff? Sunwyrm as the big monster/dragon this edition perhaps?

(Edit: dont know how to quote the first post i made with the full list)

 

[Gitzdee]

2 hours ago, Nezzhil said:

 

Was wrong about that haha, but the part about Gnarlwood does resemble the Rotmire Creed.

This could be Scourge Privateers.

Edit: Could nomads be the new Destruction army this edition?

Edit 2: Silent people are also from Ghur though. I'll be fine with either of those XD.

Edited July 20, 2022 by Gitzdee

[Nezzhil]

43 minutes ago, Gitzdee said:

Was wrong about that haha but the part about Gnarlwood does resemble the Rotmire Creed.

This could be Scourge Privateers.

Edit: Could nomads be the new Destruction army this edition?

Edit 2: Silent people are also from Ghur though. I'll be fine with either of those XD.

I doubt is a Scouge Privateer unit. I think it is a Warcry warband or a Black Library model.

 

Silent People will never be an AoS faction.

[MitGas]

7 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

GW marketing to literal ****** will never feel right to me.

Sorry, I'll probably collect downvotes but that's a ridiculous notion and I gotta disagree. That's like claiming George Lucas made SW for fascists because the Empire is clearly leaning that way.

You might not like the world they've created but - despite being portrayed as heroes BY IMPERIALS (very important distinction, ask an Eldar and you'll get a VERY different point of view) - GW makes it abundantly clear that the IoM is not an ideal state, far from it actually, and its current state literally sickens its biggest heroes(!!!!) like Roboute Guilliman. It's less of a parody than it started out as but that doesn't mean they actively market to that crowd. Idiots are idiots, you'd be wise not to engage.

Personally I'm not a fan of all real-life or overtly comical (to a point that they don't fit the setting anymore) influences (outside of serving as inspiration) in Warhammer. Whether right or left, RL politics have no place in the armies of a fictional universe...have them echo things but more than that is needless as social and political issues can be expressed/discussed via different outlets much better. No need to misuse a hobby for that. 

[Clan's Cynic]

Another AoS Horror novel. A followup to Gothghul Hollow.

Note the prosthetic arm. Witch Hunters continually keep popping up in these AoS books too.

Edited July 20, 2022 by Clan's Cynic

[Chikout]

There's been a lot of talk about the slow pace of releases for AoS this year but it looks like AoS black library is finally building up steam. There have been 11 AoS novels released or announced this year which is already a record for a single year and we are only in July. I've read or listened to almost every AoS book released before this year but I actually have a bit of a backlog now. 

 

[Still-young]

Is Gothghul Hollow any good?

edit: it’s a different author anyway, didn’t realise that. 

Edited July 20, 2022 by Still-young

[Ogregut]

2 minutes ago, Chikout said:

There's been a lot of talk about the slow pace of releases for AoS this year but it looks like AoS black library is finally building up steam. There have been 11 AoS novels released or announced this year which is already a record for a single year and we are only in July. I've read or listened to almost every AoS book released before this year but I actually have a bit of a backlog now. 

 

Same! Got 4 books waiting to be started which is always a good problem to have! 

[Nezzhil]

"Join us later in the week as we reveal a third new Warcry warband arriving in time for The Heart of Ghur"

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/07/20/the-horns-of-hashut-bring-misery-death-and-fiery-destruction-to-the-new-edition-of-warcry/

[Clan's Cynic]

9 minutes ago, Nezzhil said:

"Join us later in the week as we reveal a third new Warcry warband arriving in time for The Heart of Ghur"

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/07/20/the-horns-of-hashut-bring-misery-death-and-fiery-destruction-to-the-new-edition-of-warcry/

The interesting tidbits.

Quote

 

The Horns of Hashut worship take their name from the evil duardin deity they worship, and also act as his heralds of ruination. Marching ahead of his legendary duardin legions, they conquer regions, laying waste to all lifeforms, leaving behind only wastelands for sprawling daemon-forges and dark armouries. The humans that make up the Horns of Hashut have spent their lives living among the Chaos-worshipping duardin, and have long since abandoned such concepts as compassion and mercy.

Hashut, also known as the Father of Darkness, isn’t known for his subtlety in war – sneaking around and performing clandestine acts really isn’t for him. His followers seek to emulate his ideal of unleashing overwhelming violence, backed up with dark arcane firepower. Now, Hashut has turned his eyes upon Thondia for his next campaign of brutal conquest and desolation.

 

Nothing new there, but I like that they made it explicitly clear that Harshut is a Dwarf deity first and foremost. This does make me think we'll see the Chorfs sooner rather than later. For all the references to Malekith/Malerion, we've never had any of his goons directly appear on the tabletop the way the Horns are.

The references to a campaign in Thondia also make me think we'll see them before the end of 3.0 at the latest.

Edited July 20, 2022 by Clan's Cynic