The Rumour Thread

[Tonhel]

Just now, Grungnisson said:

Congratulations on seeing all the new armies' rules already.

Sigh. Are you really believing that every army in an Alliance will be good at everything? Come on. 😉

Even the most die hard fan has to see that some armies in an Alliance will have an easier time to get those BTs than others. Do you really think that FS will have the same mobility as other Order armies when the indexes are released.

 

[Tonhel]

2 minutes ago, ScionOfOssia said:

Nothing says you have to use it Turn 1. You can save it for later, and we haven’t seen the rest of the tactics yet either. If anything, RTTR is probably easier to score Turn 2/3 for FS after you’ve gotten into position while Idoneth probably want it Turn 1 if Rite of Creeping Mists sticks around. 

The point is that for a FS player everything has to work perfectly to pull it off, while other armies can have more failures to get the BT.

Edit: The rest? There are only two Alliance BTs.

Edited April 26 by Tonhel

[novakai]

I be more interested to see how the power of the double turn affect scoring and BT. Since taking the double turn mean your not worried about completing your battle tactic for that turn but it seems more beneficial to keep the turn order as is.

[ScionOfOssia]

10 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

The point is that for a FS player everything has to work perfectly to pull it off, while other armies can have more failures to get the BT.

Edit: The rest? There are only two Alliance BTs.

Yes, armies have different strengths and weaknesses. That’s something of an inbuilt design choice. It’s also something you need to consider when choosing your battle tactic. 

[KingBrodd]

No Dawnbringers again!! Surely it has to go up for Pre Order on the 4th?

[Mutton]

I'm now waiting for the article that tells me how I can modularly delete Battle Tactics from my games.

[Marcvs]

3 hours ago, Grungnisson said:

Well, my first instinct is still to just keep ignoring battle tactics altogether.

The paradox being that now (not) scoring a battle tactic is the main balancing mechanic for double turns. So if you decide to play without them, you've increased the problematic aspects of the double turn

[Ejecutor]

About rule articles, if the faction focus articles start next month (next week) we cannot have many more rules related ones.

[Pizzaprez]

4 hours ago, Luperci said:

Outside of the discount, local stores always just have a nicer atmosphere imo, official GW store staff feel very overbearing at times. For some reason the local GW store for me stopped hosting gaming and painting sessions for non beginners which sucks. Also as a mtg player it's nice to have one store/community to deal with for everything, I imagine it's the same for people who play other games too.

I've had this same experience; even when I walk in, verbally display my familiarity with the games, settings, armies, hobby, etc, they've not left me free to browse for more than about a sixty second minute. I once walked in specifically to buy a Bloodthirster for a Khorne player as a gift and had to convince the staff member standing in front of the khorne display that "no, I do not want to buy a Belakor despite the fact that he IS newer and COULD be used" we talked in circles for much longer than I'd have liked until my wife finally asked "are we, like, not allowed to buy the Bloodthirster?" 

Whether I went in for a few paints or a couple miniature kits, they simply refused to let me say "no I already have an army, I don't want to buy the newest release, i just want what I came here for" and browse for a minute or two. 

Once, I shipped to store and got a lecture about how I should have called the store ahead of time and let them know I was making an order from the site. Started with "ah! I didn't realize the scope of the shipping problems y'all are having; I'll touch base in the future." but the dude had like an essay he had to vent and I had to stand at the register and hear him out before I could retrieve my purchase.

Edited April 26 by Pizzaprez

[Ejecutor]

37 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

No Dawnbringers again!! Surely it has to go up for Pre Order on the 4th?

Yeah. I don't imagine putting all the pending content without at least one more short story.

[Ferban]

17 minutes ago, Mutton said:

I'm now waiting for the article that tells me how I can modularly delete Battle Tactics from my games.

Both Spearhead and PtG games don't use battle tactics.  Matched Play is great and I get a ton of those games in.  But I typically enjoy the more narrative focused games more anyway.  I want my goal to be "Kill that general" or "desecrate their walls" or "protect the artifact" or "Escape before you're killed."  Those always bring more fun moments than just seeing who can stand in circles better. 

Speaking of PtG, I wasn't a huge fan of the 3.0 system.  After playing about 30 games, it sort of felt like Warhammer with additional homework.  Meh.  But I very much enjoyed the more narrative battles.  Would love to see more support for those in the next edition. 

[DeLewko]

They might announce the preorder this Sunday and release the story next Friday right before the preorder goes live

[novakai]

15 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

About rule articles, if the faction focus articles start next month (next week) we cannot have many more rules related ones.

Next week is Endless spells/invocations and Spearhead (Along with a SCE model review probably). Does not sound like faction focus start next week

Edited April 26 by novakai

[Ejecutor]

4 minutes ago, DeLewko said:

They might announce the preorder this Sunday and release the story next Friday right before the preorder goes live

It could be, yeah, but normally they have the one before the week the preorder is announced and the last one on the week it goes out for sale.

[Gitzdee]

1 hour ago, novakai said:

I be more interested to see how the power of the double turn affect scoring and BT. Since taking the double turn mean your not worried about completing your battle tactic for that turn but it seems more beneficial to keep the turn order as is.

I dont think it was their initial goal but it feels like the double turn got even more impactfull than it already was. Higher risk and higher reward. If u take the double turn and get the advantage u needed than it feels like it always did and u are probably winning the game. The downside is that if u fail to take advantage of the double than u get punished, maybe so much u will lose the game. So upside is the same, downside got a lot bigger. Resulting in a even more game defining choice and i think that wasnt what they wanted to achieve here.

(Hope im explaining this correctly)

Edited April 26 by Gitzdee

[Goatforce]

Cannot wait to see the faction focusses. I hope they preview the Keeper of Secrets warscroll with Slaanesh, got my fingers crossed it will actually function as it should in 4th and be a terrifying and fast melee blender in the ~400 points bracket.

[The_Tallest_Ork]

1 hour ago, Tonhel said:

😄, Lol, For playing the mobility game and getting Reclaim the Realms they are at the bottom of the Order Alliance.

Even if you focus your whole armylist on mobility as FS player you will still be outmanouverd by most other Order armies and they don't have to build their list around mobility.

But you are right those BT are for every faction equal useable 😄 

 

Competitive Fyreslayer lists have used multiple magmadroths and deepstriking hearthguard units for years and still manage to bring the heat without "focusing their whole army on mobility." This isn't obscure knowledge, but it does require one to actually play the game and observe how it's actually played, which might be difficult from your armchair.

This battle tactic can also be scored by... simply deploying one unit on each flank and just advancing in a straight-ish line until you're outside of your own territory, which isn't exactly the sort of strategy you need to be a high-level player to pull off even with dwarven movement values.

[Satyrical Sophist]

4 hours ago, Grungnisson said:

Do you like playing with the battle tactics then?

Also, other solutions are available. Like hidden agendas, for example. You could draw, say, three at the start of the battle and score additional points for completing two of those.

Or you could incorporate additional scoring conditions in the battleplans. We saw these in some of the more narrative battleplans accompanying the campaign books.

There are options. Many of them, potentially better, than the battle tactics we have.

I do like playing with battle tactics, yes. I think  they add to the game. Ideally you should be thinking about them ahead of time and working out how to score them. I think there are some that are better than others, not a huge fan of the ones that force you to remain in combat, I much prefer the wording of “all units have fought” for that, since it still has risk (first unit might wipe out the target), but is one you can plan for much more. 
 

I think it’s good when the game rewards you for planning these things out, and allows the option of playing more cagily until you properly commit. I don’t much care for the “let’s all line up and mash armies into each other” type of game.

 

[CommissarRotke]

4 hours ago, Tonhel said:

I am curious how they will balance all factions after their so loved tournament results are pouring in. I don't think they will alter the Warscrolls. I would love this to happen, but they didn't really do it the last 9 years and even with the reset, the warscrolls didn't change much. So I don't expect balancing through warscrolls. So it will probably through points increases/decreases and Alliance BTs.

previous editions didn't have streamlined warscrolls and USRs though, I could see AOS moving to trying out adding/removing USRs for units to rebalance their role(s) and/or efficiency

looking at the new Vindictor scroll again, they may not change up the "Ability" section, but the bottom of the wscroll has two sets of keywords: one of which looks like more universals that set the abilities and role of a unit. they could add "Ward" like how Nagash has on his wscroll. I was wondering why such important rules like Fly and War would be all the way at the bottom--maybe it IS for bigger rebalancing??

 

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

7 hours ago, Goatforce said:

Cannot wait to see the faction focusses. I hope they preview the Keeper of Secrets warscroll with Slaanesh, got my fingers crossed it will actually function as it should in 4th and be a terrifying and fast melee blender in the ~400 points bracket.

Now there's some sexy talk! 

My Keeper is my pride and joy. My favourite miniature that I've ever painted. I need it to be a killer! 

[Tonhel]

8 hours ago, The_Tallest_Ork said:

Competitive Fyreslayer lists have used multiple magmadroths and deepstriking hearthguard units for years and still manage to bring the heat without "focusing their whole army on mobility." This isn't obscure knowledge, but it does require one to actually play the game and observe how it's actually played, which might be difficult from your armchair.

This battle tactic can also be scored by... simply deploying one unit on each flank and just advancing in a straight-ish line until you're outside of your own territory, which isn't exactly the sort of strategy you need to be a high-level player to pull off even with dwarven movement values.

lol,

We have a small group of players (5-6), that play 1-2 times per month and we play at home. FS and Idoneth are two of the armies that are played. We cleary do not have the same tactical genious as you 😄, but still this doesn't make us armchair generals. We never played in a event/tournament. You can declare what you want, but FS are one of armies in the Order battletome that will have a harder to time to pull Reclaim of the Realms off. While for some armies its much easier. We will see what the 50% other BTs are.

FS will be a the bottom compared to other Order armies to pull the Reclaim the Realm BT off. This can change when they get a new battletome and new units, but as the army is now. It's still one of the slower armies. FS will have to really build it's army to that BT and than everything have to work perfectly compared to other armies. Lol, it seems to me that you are the armchair general 😛 

Here is a pic of my StD vs Fyreslayers.

6 hours ago, CommissarRotke said:

previous editions didn't have streamlined warscrolls and USRs though, I could see AOS moving to trying out adding/removing USRs for units to rebalance their role(s) and/or efficiency

looking at the new Vindictor scroll again, they may not change up the "Ability" section, but the bottom of the wscroll has two sets of keywords: one of which looks like more universals that set the abilities and role of a unit. they could add "Ward" like how Nagash has on his wscroll. I was wondering why such important rules like Fly and War would be all the way at the bottom--maybe it IS for bigger rebalancing??

 

Yeah, lets hope so! I really hope that for this edition they will not shy away to alter Warscrolls if deemed necessary.

Edited April 27 by Tonhel

[TheHeartbreakPrince]

9 hours ago, Tonhel said:

😄, Lol, For playing the mobility game and getting Reclaim the Realms they are at the bottom of the Order Alliance.

Even if you focus your whole armylist on mobility as FS player you will still be outmanouverd by most other Order armies and they don't have to build their list around mobility.

But you are right those BT are for every faction equal useable 😄 

 

Sounds like a skill issue 

[Tonhel]

Just now, TheHeartbreakPrince said:

Sounds like a skill issue 

Which still means that when both are equally skilled that the FS player is at a disadvantaged compared to i.e an Idoneth or Sylvanth player. My point is that two alliance BTs create an unbalance i.e for the Order Alliance which has 9 factions. So there is a ranking in that alliance betweem factions that can easier pull it of than other factions.

[pitzok]

6 hours ago, CommissarRotke said:

previous editions didn't have streamlined warscrolls and USRs though, I could see AOS moving to trying out adding/removing USRs for units to rebalance their role(s) and/or efficiency

looking at the new Vindictor scroll again, they may not change up the "Ability" section, but the bottom of the wscroll has two sets of keywords: one of which looks like more universals that set the abilities and role of a unit. they could add "Ward" like how Nagash has on his wscroll. I was wondering why such important rules like Fly and War would be all the way at the bottom--maybe it IS for bigger rebalancing??

 

People thought the same about USR's in 40k and instead of taking away or giving a unit an USR they decided to completely rewrite how certain rules work, I'm hopeful that won't happen again but I'm keeping my expectations temepred.

Edited April 27 by pitzok

[MotherGoose]

I thought BTs were absolute rubbish the past two versions, so for me these are a step in the right direction. I'm hopeful there isn't any super easy ones to do like pick 3 units to jog on the spot in the first version, or move out of your deployment zone in the current version.

When we tried removing them completely the games were quicker and didn't feel as lame. Now we likely can't really do that as it's the main way they're trying to balance the double turn this edition. I always think we should try narrative games instead as everyone says they're really fun. What's the best way to do narrative whilst keeping some of the matched play stuff like points and how to build armies? I've never really looked into it tbh. Is it 'fair' and 'balanced' like matched play is?

They mentioned last week that they would be going into more detail on manifestations this week, I guess they got that wrong?

Edited April 27 by MotherGoose