The Rumour Thread

[Mutton]

If we're not going to a "alternating activations" system, the Priority Roll is a must to keep the game engaging.

I see people saying "I don't know anyone that likes the double turn!" This is all echo chamber bias. For me, I don't know anyone that doesn't like the priority roll. So we could go back and forth with it all day.

 

[Aeryenn]

When new players first learn about the double turn, it often raises a few eyebrows, but it’s well-loved by the community at large. 

“I often ask competitive players, playtesters, and influencers the same questions,” says Matt. “What they’d add to the game, what they’d change about it, and what they’d remove from it. By far, the number one answer to the last question is this: ‘not the double turn!’ Our players are fiercely loyal to this concept, to the point it’s become a bit of a rallying call!”

😄😄😄

From like 10 people I know personally that play AoS, 9 od them at best hate double turn, some to the point that resigned from the game at all.

Edited March 29 by Aeryenn

[Gutsu17]

1 hour ago, JackStreicher said:

The double turn propaganda is insane: Repeating the same opinion doesn’t make it true

But hey let’s add another 3 justifications which are necessary since everybody loves the double turn and there’s no reason not go love it. 🤷🏼‍♂️

It‘s very hypocritical.

The changes they are implementing are needed so casual players dont complain

[Gaz Taylor]

My two pence…

Articles so far: Yes they are like pulling teeth/watching paint dry as we all want the juicy info now, but it’s aimed at players who haven’t played AOS or haven’t played in a while. I hope we get something meaty soon and I’m hoping for some videos from experienced players or playtesters about the game. I’m guessing that will be after the game is out from influencers.

Double Turn: It’s part of the game and it’s a unique part of how it works. Fully fine with it staying and like the idea in games with battle tactics if you choose the double you sacrifice playing a battle tactic. Nice idea as means you have a chance to stop your opponent from scoring big or preventing them from doing a easy one.

edit - also interesting how it works in games without battle tactics. Is it the same, not used or something else?

Really excited but want more info now!

[Gutsu17]

9 minutes ago, Aeryenn said:

When new players first learn about the double turn, it often raises a few eyebrows, but it’s well-loved by the community at large. 

“I often ask competitive players, playtesters, and influencers the same questions,” says Matt. “What they’d add to the game, what they’d change about it, and what they’d remove from it. By far, the number one answer to the last question is this: ‘not the double turn!’ Our players are fiercely loyal to this concept, to the point it’s become a bit of a rallying call!”

😄😄😄

From like 10 people I know personally that play AoS, 9 od them at best hate double turn, some to the point that resigned from the game at all.

It is simply a neccessary mechanic, without it we will either get alternating activations (Which GW doesnt like) which will anyway include some randomness, almost all modern wargames do, or we get a 40k situation where every game feels the same because theres 0 reason to really plan ahead outside of the strategy that you had in your head while army building

[The Red King]

I don't hate the double turn but pretending everyone loves it so much they would die for it is super cringey.

 

These marketing fluff articles mostly make me roll my eyes. It feels like a used car salesman or something. Actively makes me like the product less even if it was something I wanted. 

[Ragest]

The need to fill almost 3 months of articles, let them cook

[Aeryenn]

5 minutes ago, Gutsu17 said:

It is simply a neccessary mechanic, without it we will either get alternating activations (Which GW doesnt like) which will anyway include some randomness, almost all modern wargames do, or we get a 40k situation where every game feels the same because theres 0 reason to really plan ahead outside of the strategy that you had in your head while army building

Every single time I got double turn and gained advantage that way made me feel guilty and if it lead to me winning the game I felt like I didn't earn it

Every single time my opponent gains double turn I feel like: "here goes down my Alarielle, Ironclad, Black Coach etc. that would otherwise be safe and sound"

[Tonhel]

38 minutes ago, mojojojo101 said:

It's hard to know how impactful this will be until we see how impactful battle tactics are.

If Battle Tactics work the same as they do now this functionally kills taking double turns.

Right now you basically have to scpre a tactic every turn in every game. Taking a double and not scoring a battle tactic is just self sabotage.

Yeah, if the Battle Tactics aren't very important. The double turn will always be taken. If the BT are too important. The double turn will never be taken.

Balancing the BT's just right will be very important.

[Grimrock]

9 minutes ago, Mutton said:

If we're not going to a "alternating activations" system, the Priority Roll is a must to keep the game engaging.

I see people saying "I don't know anyone that likes the double turn!" This is all echo chamber bias. For me, I don't know anyone that doesn't like the priority roll. So we could go back and forth with it all day.

 

Yeah, and I'd say that talk of engagement through the double is all echo chamber because there are a huge number of games that don't have a double turn and get along just fine with engagement. But like you said, no point in going back and forth. 

For the article I do like more consequences for taking the double turn, but I'm not sure if it's enough. If I get a good double what does it matter if I miss out on 2 points? And if I don't I just keep it in my back pocket and we keep playing standard activations. I just really hope their wording is accurate and you don't lose your tactic if your opponent forces you into a garbage double turn. That would be incredibly awful but based on the way they handled the CP this edition I'm not super confident they took it into account. 

[Gutsu17]

2 minutes ago, Aeryenn said:

"here goes down my Alarielle, Ironclad, Black Coach etc. that would otherwise be safe and sound"

Its not like you wasnt aware, and didnt specifically place them in a way that makes them vulnurable

[dmorley21]

57 minutes ago, Grimrock said:

Yeah I couldn't help but roll my eyes at it. "By far, the number one answer to the last question is this: ‘not the double turn!’". Please. I don't know a single person in real life or a single YouTuber that would respond like that. The only people I know that actually stick up for it are on here, in real life it's resigned ambivalence at best with the majority disliking it in one way or another. 

23 minutes ago, Aeryenn said:

When new players first learn about the double turn, it often raises a few eyebrows, but it’s well-loved by the community at large. 

“I often ask competitive players, playtesters, and influencers the same questions,” says Matt. “What they’d add to the game, what they’d change about it, and what they’d remove from it. By far, the number one answer to the last question is this: ‘not the double turn!’ Our players are fiercely loyal to this concept, to the point it’s become a bit of a rallying call!”

😄😄😄

From like 10 people I know personally that play AoS, 9 od them at best hate double turn, some to the point that resigned from the game at all.

It’s pretty clear on here how so many people enjoy AoS in their own bubbles. 

My hyper local gaming group of mainly new players in the last year likes the double turn. My region generally is ambivalent about it - some like it, some dislike it. 

My larger gaming group loves it. At GTs, it’s generally loved. The biggest AoS YouTubers (Season of War, Honest Wargamer, Battleshock Wargaming, Warhammer Weekly) all like it. 
 
I chat with some hyper competitive people and they love it. 

[Boar]

6 minutes ago, The Red King said:

I don't hate the double turn but pretending everyone loves it so much they would die for it is super cringey.

HeyWoah talked a bit at Adepticon with Matt Rose, and apparently Matt was surprised at most people being positive about double turn. So that's probably where it came from. It's Rose impression from talking to players at Adepticon.

[Aeryenn]

10 minutes ago, Gutsu17 said:

Its not like you wasnt aware, and didnt specifically place them in a way that makes them vulnurable

If you always play it safe, you won't win. When considering the models I mentioned I position them in a way, that won't put them at risk in one turn. But not in a double turn. I won't put a 700 point worth model at the edge of my side of the battlefield. It is meant to take a significant part in play. It's either you waste your points playing it safe, or make a use of it taking the risk, the risk made by DT.

Edited March 29 by Aeryenn

[The Lost Sigmarite]

This whole "if you take a double turn you can't score a battle tactic" will only be impactful if battle tactics are relevant, which remains to be seen.

Also : “I often ask competitive players, playtesters, and influencers the same questions,” says Matt. “What they’d add to the game, what they’d change about it, and what they’d remove from it. By far, the number one answer to the last question is this: ‘not the double turn!’ Our players are fiercely loyal to this concept, to the point it’s become a bit of a rallying call!”

And these people who "like the double turn", are they in the room with us now ?

Edited March 29 by The Lost Sigmarite

[Gutsu17]

2 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

This whole "if you take a double turn you can't score a battle tactic" will only be impactful if battle tactics are relevant, which remains to be seen.

Also : “I often ask competitive players, playtesters, and influencers the same questions,” says Matt. “What they’d add to the game, what they’d change about it, and what they’d remove from it. By far, the number one answer to the last question is this: ‘not the double turn!’ Our players are fiercely loyal to this concept, to the point it’s become a bit of a rallying call!”

"And these people who "like the double turn, are they in the room with us now ?"

Most people with youtube channels actively advocate for it

[Aeryenn]

2 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

This whole "if you take a double turn you can't score a battle tactic" will only be impactful if battle tactics are relevant, which remains to be seen.

Also : “I often ask competitive players, playtesters, and influencers the same questions,” says Matt. “What they’d add to the game, what they’d change about it, and what they’d remove from it. By far, the number one answer to the last question is this: ‘not the double turn!’ Our players are fiercely loyal to this concept, to the point it’s become a bit of a rallying call!”

"And these people who "like the double turn, are they in the room with us now ?"

Absolutely epic.

[Ejecutor]

1 hour ago, Baron I_oyd said:

Glad to see that Blight city erruption into reality completly ****** with whole Geomantic web lmao..Seraphon about to have some hard time 

What would be the implications for the Seraphons?

[Ejecutor]

48 minutes ago, Gaz Taylor said:

My two pence…

Articles so far: Yes they are like pulling teeth/watching paint dry as we all want the juicy info now, but it’s aimed at players who haven’t played AOS or haven’t played in a while. I hope we get something meaty soon and I’m hoping for some videos from experienced players or playtesters about the game. I’m guessing that will be after the game is out from influencers.

That's my point. I never played and this doesn't feel appealing at all. They are not explaining anything to me, they are just flexing how cool they are and how good their rules are.

[Ejecutor]

Dawnbringer Chronicles XXVI – A Ruinous Loss

26 short stories and we keep going. What a wonderful setting we have the chance to enjoy.

Meanwhile in 40k you have 26 types of Space Marines units where you only change the weapon 😋

[Boar]

14 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

What would be the implications for the Seraphons?

They like they magical lines, nodes etc. be prim and proper (all according to Grand Plan), so I guess this will ****** them off.

[DinoJon]

5 minutes ago, Boar said:

They like they magical lines, nodes etc. be prim and proper (all according to Grand Plan), so I guess this will ****** them off.

So there's also the wound on the Arcanogeologist that looks like it was from a poisoned dart. HRMMMMM

[Acrozatarim]

I think the wound on the arcanogeologist is almost certainly from a skaven assassin's blade.

[Flippy]

52 minutes ago, Gutsu17 said:

Its not like you wasnt aware, and didnt specifically place them in a way that makes them vulnurable

This would be a valid point, but it also underlines the profound impact of double turn. You need to build your list with double turn on your mind (how many drops? do I have sufficient number of screens?) and position units planning for double turn potential.
There is also a very problematic issue with smaller games - I played most of my AoS (and WHFB, half a century ago) games using 750 - 1500 points and I would very much like GW to treat smaller games as equally valid game modes, with active support. Is that possible with double turn? Maybe…

[Satyrical Sophist]

8 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

This whole "if you take a double turn you can't score a battle tactic" will only be impactful if battle tactics are relevant, which remains to be seen.

Also : “I often ask competitive players, playtesters, and influencers the same questions,” says Matt. “What they’d add to the game, what they’d change about it, and what they’d remove from it. By far, the number one answer to the last question is this: ‘not the double turn!’ Our players are fiercely loyal to this concept, to the point it’s become a bit of a rallying call!”

And these people who "like the double turn", are they in the room with us now ?

I get that some people don’t like the double turn, but others do. It might be annoying to get told why something you don’t like isn’t bad, but you know what else is annoying? Being told that you don’t exist, because how could someone like something that you don’t like? 
 

Given a number of players (myself included) on the forum have clearly said why we like the double turn it feels pretty rude.

The double turn is contentious, but I feel a fair chunk of the “haters” are people who DO NOT PLAY AoS, and just dislike it for not being a feature of other games.

Another group I feel are playing like it doesn’t exist, then being brutally punished for it. If you play like a rule isn’t there then get hit hard due to that, it’s kind of on you. I played against foot ogor once, and positioned myself so that their charge would be out of range of most charges. I didn’t realise that their musicians gave +1 to charge, and they very much spiked their charge rolls that turn. That was unlucky, but a mistake I made.

If you are going first in a turn, then you need to be more careful and respect the double turn, keep the ironclad further away, don’t expose Allarielle to too much incoming damage. If you are going second in a turn you can be bolder. Some games you may indeed have to risk stuff more than you’d like and may be stuck in that situation, but it’s well worth thinking on if you could do more to not get into those dire straits.

I too would like less of a dip feed of information, but we are still quite a way away from release, with another dawn bringer book to come, along with what feels like quite a few other releases for other systems. 

If they are reworking war scrolls substantially then I can see them wanting to not show specific ones for awhile. Imagine they show off a unit and it seems like a big nerf because people are comparing it to current units, which is irrelevant because the new unit will never play against old units.
 

People are bad at doing comparisons. In 40K plague marines had a 5++ ward and only one wound for a long time. When marines got their second wound people were super excited for plague marines with 2 wounds and 5++ and got disappointed that the new rule was 2 wounds and minus 1 damage. They were unhappy that it was worse than the hypothetical thing that it could have been if two different rule sets combine.