AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[Enoby]

2 minutes ago, Acrozatarim said:

Blissbarb Seekers at least have an obvious difference in battlefield purpose from Seekers and Hellstriders, but I'm not sure what the Slickblades are supposed to provide that the other two melee cav don't already?

While I'm not 100% sure what the difference will be, I'm going to guess that they'll do extra damage on a charge like a glass canon. For example, 2 attacks at 3/3/-2/2 on a charge would give them a different niche compared to the other two (with seekers having speed over them, and hellstriders having staying power).

[Goorie]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/12/08/meet-the-new-slaanesh-hedonites/
 

As someone said, they got caught so they showed them off before the book release 🙂

[Klamm]

Trying to get a sense of what slaangor units will be like from all this info. The Direchasm model is on a 40mm base with 5 hitpoints, which implies monstrous infantry profile (3/4 wounds, 3 per unit). And I was wondering if the actual unit would be bigger and on 50mms, like how the underworlds dankhold is a lil munchkin compared to the AoS dankhold troggoth.

But then these cards have the slaangor starting at 20 hitpoints, which is the health count you see for 2 wound AoS models.

And we still haven't seen the whole model.

So at this point, I'm guessing 40mm 5 model units of three wound elites? Especially since they're gonna be different from the painbringers, which I'm sure will be two wound equivalents to chaos warriors or blood warriors.

[Enoby]

More to come? This is going to be a massive release if so

[Klamm]

Presumably all that's left to reveal is the big war platform thing and possibly a hero too big for warcry (maybe a new lord on steed?)

Which is fine, I've been waiting for Slaanesh mortals for so long and this was still a happy surprise after last year's let down. I don't wanna be greedy (even if that would be very slaanesh).

[Benkei]

I just want spear dancers now, pretty please? 

[Popisdead]

 

On 12/4/2020 at 1:59 PM, Gorthor21 said:

The slaangors seem like they are going to be like the tzaangor enlightened.  Suppose they wanted a 3 wound infantry to go along with blightkings and skullreapers.  I hope they give the Sybarites a full kit with both weapon options here, that’s what they really need.  The universal rend is nice and fits with all the other slaanesh units profiles I can think of.

I saw that too.  I hope the Slaanesh Battalion  is updated to include them.  the dmg output is nice.  And in BoC having up to rend -5 dmg 2 could be pretty amazing (herdstone, -2 native, 2 diff spells).  You could cut through anything 2+ even.

3 minutes ago, Benkei said:

I just want spear dancers now, pretty please? 

Oh that would be pretty cool.  

[dirkdragonslayer]

1 hour ago, carnith said:

I am super happy for everything we have, the downside is Glisette, best girl, is a one off. 

Judging by the name of her weapon, the Slickblade Glaive, I bet she represents the Slickblade Seekers except without the mount. So she is a one off in that she doesn't have her daemonic mount or horse. This is all assuming the leader of the archers doesn't get access to the Glaive for some reason. So this means every member of the Dread Pageant represents one of the new units that was leaked;

• Vasillac represents the Myrmidesh Warriors.
• Slakeslash represents the Slaangor Fiendbloods.
• Hadzu represents the Blissbarb Archers.
• Gilsette represents the Slickblade Seekers.

[NinthMusketeer]

1 hour ago, Klamm said:

Trying to get a sense of what slaangor units will be like from all this info. The Direchasm model is on a 40mm base with 5 hitpoints, which implies monstrous infantry profile (3/4 wounds, 3 per unit). And I was wondering if the actual unit would be bigger and on 50mms, like how the underworlds dankhold is a lil munchkin compared to the AoS dankhold troggoth.

But then these cards have the slaangor starting at 20 hitpoints, which is the health count you see for 2 wound AoS models.

And we still haven't seen the whole model.

So at this point, I'm guessing 40mm 5 model units of three wound elites? Especially since they're gonna be different from the painbringers, which I'm sure will be two wound equivalents to chaos warriors or blood warriors.

You can download their AoS warscroll from the pre-order page; slaangor has 3 wounds.

[Klamm]

22 minutes ago, NinthMusketeer said:

You can download their AoS warscroll from the pre-order page; slaangor has 3 wounds.

Yeah I'm thinking 3 wounds is most likely but a) Iron Golems ogor breacher warscroll also has three wounds while all ogor units have at least four and b) we don't know if the slaangor are the same size as the Direchasm fella (as per the dankhold example), the blurry background models looked more big enough for a 50mm base.

[Carnith]

That makes a lot of sense about Glisette and her blade. Perhaps she managed to leave her seeker?

[Gorthor21]

Atleast we know they are paying attention to what gets leaked lol.

exalted steed of slaanesh could be either a bigger steed or the boobsnake.  I’m sure it’ll be known sooner or later

[Silphid]

The vignette picture of the archer cavalry shows a crest or ridge that would be on the neck of the creature. That ridge looks bigger than the ones on the hellstriders, so its now the current mount mode. If they made a new mount, why make a new pose of an old model? Go boobsnake!

[Enoby]

I am wondering how our archers will be. 2 attacks at 4/4/-1/1 aren't too bad en masse when combined with our 6s being 2 or 3 hits. As they're meant to be the lowest of the hedonites, I wonder if they'll be cheap ranged battleline too, and if they'll do mortal wounds on a hit. 

[Jaskier]

I'm giddy just from Slaangors being confirmed, everything else is a happy bonus

 

 

Edited December 9, 2020 by Jaskier

[Gorthor21]

The slaangors look like they will have the warherd keyword with how much in common they have with in the face.  
the vignette also has a horn coming from its head so that’s a big departure from the steeds we already have.

[Carnith]

3 hours ago, Enoby said:

I am wondering how our archers will be. 2 attacks at 4/4/-1/1 aren't too bad en masse when combined with our 6s being 2 or 3 hits. As they're meant to be the lowest of the hedonites, I wonder if they'll be cheap ranged battleline too, and if they'll do mortal wounds on a hit. 

euphoric killers doesn't work on ranged, otherwise depraved drove with 40 ungor raiders would be spicy. 

Now, if they are mw in addition, that'll be spicy, but make them cost like 140 for 10 but probably more since that's around where lumineth archers are at and they only get 1 shot that does a mw and that's it. 

[CeleFAZE]

The way the poisons are written about for the archer's arrows make me think that it will go one of three ways:

1. The "poison" aspect is just fluff and they'll have a fairly basic shooting profile with some rend, which is still great, especially if they're battleline.

2. They might deal out some kind of debuff to units they hit and/or damage, maybe a strikes last, movement, or to-hit debuff. While this would be cool, I'm concerned they'd be too expensive to be a viable massed range choice for the army.

3. They deal a mortal wound on a six to hit or wound. Kind of boring and not something we're particularly hurting for, but again something I think would be costed for a little heavily.

[Lucentia]

Probably worth noting that in Underworlds the archer has a unique rule which lets you move your opponents models one tile in any direction if you hit them with the bow, which of course would be difficult to reasonably translate into AoS and may just be for Underworlds, but could suggest some sort of debuff, I suppose.

[Jeremierty]

24 minutes ago, Lucentia said:

Probably worth noting that in Underworlds the archer has a unique rule which lets you move your opponents models one tile in any direction if you hit them with the bow, which of course would be difficult to reasonably translate into AoS and may just be for Underworlds, but could suggest some sort of debuff, I suppose.

I imagine something like a slaughter priest spell or should I say "prayer"... forcing you to move toward the closest enemy unit. The slaughter priest forces you to move d6 inches but maybe It will me more akin to the tectonic ability of the lumineths alarith forcing you to move 2 inches. 

Something similar is also seen with the orcs allowing them to move 2 or 3 inches when hit from afar so forcing the opponent to move toward or from you is not unheard of

[Enoby]

6 hours ago, carnith said:

euphoric killers doesn't work on ranged, otherwise depraved drove with 40 ungor raiders would be spicy. 

Now, if they are mw in addition, that'll be spicy, but make them cost like 140 for 10 but probably more since that's around where lumineth archers are at and they only get 1 shot that does a mw and that's it. 

Ah yeah, forgot about that restriction! I hope they have some way to interact with an allegiance ability, even if it's a new ability - I don't want them to end up like cultists in Slaves to Darkness where they are just as good as allies in their own faction.

A debuff would be nice - even just our classic -1 to hit on wounded units would be nice.  

I wonder how good the bow archers will be - usually speed isn't as appreciated on ranged models because they don't need to move much to hit the opponent. So either they'll be melee/ranged hybrid, or they'll be like Tzaangor Skyfyres and there speed will be there to chase down hiding enemies. 

[AngryPanda]

It seems like we’re going to be one of the more diverse chaos factions in the chaos allegiance; if not one of the most diverse armies in the game. To give a brief rundown of what we currently have:

- we have access to decent and above average melee with higher then average rend; we have abilities that increase the volume of attacks as well

- abilities that alter the flow of combat/activation 

- access to monster creatures and/or heroes that are high-damage deathstars

- very fast melee-orientated cavalry 

- decent magical abilities that can cause damage or provide buffs, and the ability to mess with others in the psychic phases

- consistent and reliable casters 

- decent endless spells that mess with the opponent’s movement and/or cause mortal wounds 

- battalions and subfactions that allow us to outflank, buff our already powerful heroes, or increase our insane speed 

What’s rumored to be coming: 

- armored Elite infantry armed either with shields or more melee weapons; one may be suited for tanking/general use while the other may be more damage-orientated and specialized 

- cheap battleline armed with bows that can provide ranged support 

- cavalry that can shoot 

- monstrous/high wound and high rend infantry (Slaangors)

- Mortal hero special character from the Old World that will probably be suited towards combat 

- possibly other, not leaked units that can provide buffs, damage, magic, etc. 

I’m super excited b/c of the variety will have in terms of building lists. Compared to other chaos factions that have less choices and are more tailored to specific play styles, it seems that will have the ability to make lists that will look very different from one another but still be (hopefully) viable. 

[Golub87]

18 minutes ago, AngryPanda said:

It seems like we’re going to be one of the more diverse chaos factions in the chaos allegiance; if not one of the most diverse armies in the game. To give a brief rundown of what we currently have:

- we have access to decent and above average melee with higher then average rend; we have abilities that increase the volume of attacks as well

- abilities that alter the flow of combat/activation 

- access to monster creatures and/or heroes that are high-damage deathstars

- very fast melee-orientated cavalry 

- decent magical abilities that can cause damage or provide buffs, and the ability to mess with others in the psychic phases

- consistent and reliable casters 

- decent endless spells that mess with the opponent’s movement and/or cause mortal wounds 

- battalions and subfactions that allow us to outflank, buff our already powerful heroes, or increase our insane speed 

What’s rumored to be coming: 

- armored Elite infantry armed either with shields or more melee weapons; one may be suited for tanking/general use while the other may be more damage-orientated and specialized 

- cheap battleline armed with bows that can provide ranged support 

- cavalry that can shoot 

- monstrous/high wound and high rend infantry (Slaangors)

- Mortal hero special character from the Old World that will probably be suited towards combat 

- possibly other, not leaked units that can provide buffs, damage, magic, etc. 

I’m super excited b/c of the variety will have in terms of building lists. Compared to other chaos factions that have less choices and are more tailored to specific play styles, it seems that will have the ability to make lists that will look very different from one another but still be (hopefully) viable. 

I certainly hope so, at the moment I feel like we are very railroaded into a single type of list (herohammer)

[AngryPanda]

2 hours ago, Golub87 said:

I certainly hope so, at the moment I feel like we are very railroaded into a single type of list (herohammer)

Competitively yes, as I have observed a lot of the major strong lists are tailored towards emphasizing the use of our amazing KoS and support heroes like The Contorted Epitome. There are lists that can be made that are centered on using Daemonettes, Seekers, and Fiends that can preform well, they just won’t be “optimal.”

For the new battle tomb/update, for me it’s going to come down to three factors that determine how powerful the mortals will be: rules, point costs, and battalions. A balance of these three concepts is going to tell me how viable they’ll be on the table. For even if the rules on the models are lackluster, a fair point cost and access to powerful battalion abilities can bring them up quite drastically in value. Nurgle Blightkings are a great example: poor rules by themselves, but when belonging to a battalion they can be very deadly. 

[Enoby]

I think these mortals show just how important it is for GW to have a second look at our allegiance abilities.

Many people are absolutely fine playing suboptimally, but judging by the Slaves to Darkness and 'most dissapointing models' thread, we don't like feeling as if we're being ripped off. For example, while you can play Chaos Warriors in Slaves, there's always a nagging feeling that you could be playing marauders instead and they'd do better.

These new models are fantastic, but if (and a big 'if') our allegiance ability stays the same then we're going to struggle finding a use for these troops unless they're super OP. For example, if these archers have 18" range, 6" move, 2 shots 4/4/-1/1 and mortal wounds on 6s but they only cost 80 for 10 and are unconditional battleline  then they will get used, but it will be purely based on warscroll and pointage over actual interaction. 

Unfortunately, at the moment a unit has to answer these questions:

- (combat) hero: how do you compare to a keeper/contorted epitome? 

- elite troops: how do you compare to a keeper or maybe bestigors

-battleline: how cheap are you? 

And unless the answer to these questions is "better than/cheaper than", our allegiance ability makes them struggle to fit in. 

For example, fiends aren't that bad stats-wise. They're nothing fantastic, but they have good damage output and if they had a different keyword (for example Slaves to Darkness) then they might find themselves being used as mounstrous cavalry designed to kill heroes. Unfortunately in Slaanesh, allegiance abilities put a heavy skew on heroes:

- 6 fiends, if all get in, do an average of 20.46 wounds on a model with a 4+ save and 4+ wounds

- a keeper only does 8.69 in that scenario 

In most armies, that would mean fiends would get picked as the damage dealers to elite+ models. But in Slaanesh, they have to contend with:

- locus of diversion 

- depravity points

- fane of Slaanesh

- supreme sybarites drops

In addition to the normal:

- command triats

- artefact

- command ability that effectively doubles damage 

- easier to get a monster in range for all of its attacks

- spellcasting

The large difference of damage may still be enough to win over the normal issues, but our allegiance abilities push it too far in favour of the Keeper. To be honest, depravity points on their own would probably do it

I'm hoping GW take this opportunity to revisit Slaanesh and have allegiance abilities that don't heavily skew lists. These new kits are fantastic and it would be a massive shame if they were overshadowed by a KoS due to our own allegiance abilities.