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S133arcanite

AoS 2 - Gloomspite Gitz Discussion

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29 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

Thats true...I guess when I hear stuff like under performing my more video game nature kicks in. In a mmo type setting if a class or ability is under what it was designed to do then numbers would be tweaked but doing the same on table top is tricky.

Looking back though how many factions have had actual warscrolls changed to help performance? Not including full releases or re-release. 

Performance usually equates to points adjustments. Lower the points = more models on the table = better performance(usually). I would like to see most of the Troggs come down a bit and maybe certain heroes/monsters. Most of the bread and butter units are probably okay points wise.

To be fair, tweaking a rule by changing a keyword or adjusting the basic keywords on a warscroll is in line with other errata they issue that changes a sentence in an ability.  That is a rather small change that does not fundamentally change what these units can do - it just shuffles around who can be effected by buff abilities.

That said, when they say they are going to adjust the allegiance in the GHB I expect that they main mean points.  They may also tweak some of the allegiance abilities.  But, it also could be the case that they plan to be more proactive with the next GHB in regards to altering warscrolls if necessary.  GW has been pretty reluctant to do that so far, but GW has also never really been known for sticking to things for the long term.  They historically have a tendency to pick a plan, stick with it for a while, and then drop it in favor of something different at the drop of a hat.

I simply brought up the keyword alterations for buffs or units because that is a pretty low-effort change that could potentially have big impacts to shake things up in the army.  Personally, I would really love the Brewgit to be more universally useful because I think he is a fantastic model but is way too niche and ends up practically being a tax for the Gobbapalooza.  The Spiker would be amazing if he could buff Squigs, Troggs, or Spiders.  And the Scaremonger would at least be interesting if he could effect more targets.

But, I think what we should probably expect mainly point changes.  If their position is that Gloomspite is underperforming then my guess is that we will probably see costs go down on a number of things and I would be surprised to see Boingrots adjusted upwards (as I have suspected in the past).  Short list I would say we should expect the obvious units adjusted - Dankhold Troggoths, Troggboss, Loonboss on Mangler.  I would probably also suspect changes to some of the Grot heroes who seem high in cost compared to similar heroes in other books.  In addition, I would also expect to see a cost decrease in some form for Squig Hoppers to make them compete a bit more with Boingrots.  So either a standard decrease or a horde discount.  If GW was feeling really really nice they would also include a horde discount for Squig Herd units - which would be stupidly awesome.

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I would love a horde discount for squigs. Effective or not I would load up on them lol I would also love to see Troggoths come down a bit and battalion costs come down. More models = better perfomance right? *cough*sales*cough*

The issue with changing warscrolls is mostly physical. People would be pissed if only some months later their hard copy books were obsolete and needed sticky notes or printed note pages tossed in. I know I would be. I have the app of course on my phone but that sometimes take a bit to update as well. Ebooks arent an answer for those of us who choose to be smart and not buy overpriced aluminum scrapmetal apple products.

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My point in regards to changed warscrolls is that they already do it when they errata the text of a rule.  Your physical book or physical warscroll is obsolete the second they decide they have to change a sentence in the text for whatever reason.  And it is not wholly uncommon for them to do so.

It is fine to err on the side of not messing with the warscrolls if possible, but I would personally rather they were willing to make that choice when it is the best choice and simply deal with my physical rules needing to be accompanied by printing the errata.  I am sure some people will complain but honestly there is always someone that will complain about something.  I would prefer to have better working rules for my army and if the consequence is some of the printed materials become outdated then I am ok with it.  I would rather play with something better than stick with something inferior just for the sake of keeping my book text current.

And bear in mind that I play other games and I have seen how much it can suck when some games issue multiple versions of rules cards.  Early Malifaux was pretty bad about that, but even then I appreciated the updates to the model rules because it almost universally made them better to plan with or against.  Their rules update methods were a pain - but the game itself always got better.

Edited by Skabnoze
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13 hours ago, Forrix said:

With the advent of the activation wars, how have you all been dealing with stuff that fights at the start of the combat phase? I'm looking to start a Gloomspite army and am curious about this. I've noticed Itchy Nuisance looks promising (it cancels out start of combat phase right?).

I've stacking minus to hit for my army, making sure I've got Netters, a squad of Fellwaters, Sneaky Distraction and an artifact that subtracts from hit. I've also been experimenting with the Prismatic Palacade. It's great that they go first, but if you've got a Netter and an Arachnarok Shaman with Sneaky Distraction, have fun with that -2 to hit.

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53 minutes ago, GlitzFan said:

Thoughts of having 40 spears 40 swords 40 shootas? 

40 shootas is bad. If you're doing that go 40/40/20x20. Reason bring that shootas and stabbas actually perform slightly different roles.

Stabbas are your primary front line speed bump and aggressive objective holders, as a result they get significantly better as the numbers go up. The moonclan shields stick around longer, having both the icon and banner makes them hang around longer, 3 extra netters means better line coverage and mw/shooting no longer strips your chaff line as meaningfully.

Shootas on the other hand are defensive objective holders and zone control. They stop teleports and deepstriking in your backline and hold your objectives while potentially still doing some shooting output.

For the first bigger units really helps because it bogs down your opponent for longer. For the second multiple smaller units are better because they allow you to cover more objectives and zone out more space.

So yeah 40/40/20x20 is really viable.

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@Malakree

Well I currently have 40 spears and 40 swords built and painted. I now have 2 more boxes on sprue.

What combination would you suggest? Bearing in mind I like the idea of hand of gork and being aggressive + using mushroom whilst holding the enemy inside the mushroom.

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Just wondering everyone's thoughts on a 1k squig focused list with and without the Giant Cave Squig...hoping I can get a few of you to weigh in on the two lists here.  

 

The difference is the Loonboss on Giant Cave Squig in exchange for 5 more bounderz.  I'm also open to any other suggestions for a 1k.  

1kGiantCaveSquig.pdf 1kNoCaveSquig.pdf

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5 hours ago, GlitzFan said:

@Malakree

Well I currently have 40 spears and 40 swords built and painted. I now have 2 more boxes on sprue.

What combination would you suggest? Bearing in mind I like the idea of hand of gork and being aggressive + using mushroom whilst holding the enemy inside the mushroom.

Probably 20 shootas and another 20 stabbas,with stabbas?

The 20 shootas give you that unit to play around with and see how you feel, in game experience really is the best way to develop an opinion.

The 20 stabbas gives you more flexibility with your blocks. You can run 60/40/20 or split use 20 stabbas on their own for 40/40x20/20.

If you're play aggressive then I'd definitely recommend trying a unit of 60. We have enough CPs to inspiring presence and a massive unit of 60 is a nightmare to shift. It also makes them an even better target for buffs etc.

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14 minutes ago, Malakree said:

Probably 20 shootas and another 20 stabbas,with stabbas?

The 20 shootas give you that unit to play around with and see how you feel, in game experience really is the best way to develop an opinion.

The 20 stabbas gives you more flexibility with your blocks. You can run 60/40/20 or split use 20 stabbas on their own for 40/40x20/20.

If you're play aggressive then I'd definitely recommend trying a unit of 60. We have enough CPs to inspiring presence and a massive unit of 60 is a nightmare to shift. It also makes them an even better target for buffs etc.

I prefer the squigs tbh. I watch people playing games and the stabbas just seem to blob around not doing very much. Such a slow unit. This is my view. Shame the loon shrine has no benefit to squigs. 

I understand 60 is hard to shift but with the use of endless spells a unit of 60 can soon disappear.

Who else is building a list around squigs with a few shamans for spells?

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2 minutes ago, Nickmoss90 said:

I prefer the squigs tbh. I watch people playing games and the stabbas just seem to blob around not doing very much. Such a slow unit. This is my view. Shame the loon shrine has no benefit to squigs. 

I understand 60 is hard to shift but with the use of endless spells a unit of 60 can soon disappear.

Who else is building a list around squigs with a few shamans for spells?

Right here!

I'd love your opinion on my post above with 1k lists.  

Looking for opinions on the following:

1) In 1k (even 2k), thoughts on Loonboss on Giant Cave Squig, in 1k I'd have to cut some Bounderz down to 10.

2)  Hand of Gork vs Squig Lure if you're only taking one spell?

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I wonder if they'd make the Gobbapalooza guys heroes but without the leader role and allow them to be added separately for 40 to 50 points a pop. It wouldn't actually be a sweeping warscroll rewrite but would make them much easier to fit into lists and fit what they've done in the Blades of Khorne and Fyreslayers books.

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Just got notified that the Looncurse arrived in my local store.

looks like I’ll be joining you lads soon.

hope you don’t mind a Skavenplayer amidst your group (don’t worry I want betray you guys😀, although I have 12voices in my head telling me other wise, but just trust Us-us, we are-are very trust worthy)

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3 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Just got notified that the Looncurse arrived in my local store.

looks like I’ll be joining you lads soon.

hope you don’t mind a Skavenplayer amidst your group (don’t worry I want betray you guys😀, although I have 12voices in my head telling me other wise, but just trust Us-us, we are-are very trust worthy)

I can only presume that the "want" was a slip of the tongue then, so to speak :).  In which case, welcome (I think?)

 

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2 minutes ago, Aelfric said:

I can only presume that the "want" was a slip of the tongue then, so to speak :).  In which case, welcome (I think?)

 

Yeah my bad.

My phone must be cursed by the great horned rat😅,

actually meant “won’t betray you”

 

 

 

(((((((yet)))))))

 

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20 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Just got notified that the Looncurse arrived in my local store.

looks like I’ll be joining you lads soon.

hope you don’t mind a Skavenplayer amidst your group (don’t worry I want betray you guys😀, although I have 12voices in my head telling me other wise, but just trust Us-us, we are-are very trust worthy)

Most have sold out. You better run and get a box

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1 minute ago, Nickmoss90 said:

Most have sold out. You better run and get a box

Don’t worry man, I am the Skreech Verminking, I know how to handle my competition!!

Although it might not be a legal way, let’s talk about something else alright😅

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3 hours ago, kamuffinz said:

Just wondering everyone's thoughts on a 1k squig focused list with and without the Giant Cave Squig...hoping I can get a few of you to weigh in on the two lists here.  

 

The difference is the Loonboss on Giant Cave Squig in exchange for 5 more bounderz.  I'm also open to any other suggestions for a 1k.  

1kGiantCaveSquig.pdf 4.38 kB · 6 downloads 1kNoCaveSquig.pdf 4.2 kB · 3 downloads

Firstly awesome lists. 

I personally really like the loon boss on cave. I think the random movement of our squig cav need a little something to help them along. The command ability of the loon on cave squig does just that and also working for your loonboss on mangler gives him a possible move of 21 inches which is insane add and charge and holy ******.  I really like the more randomness of having larger models than large hordes which makes games more dramatic and less about the average amount of DMG you can do. Hope this helps. Cheers 

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3 hours ago, kamuffinz said:

Just wondering everyone's thoughts on a 1k squig focused list with and without the Giant Cave Squig...hoping I can get a few of you to weigh in on the two lists here.  

 

The difference is the Loonboss on Giant Cave Squig in exchange for 5 more bounderz.  I'm also open to any other suggestions for a 1k.  

1kGiantCaveSquig.pdf 4.38 kB · 6 downloads 1kNoCaveSquig.pdf 4.2 kB · 3 downloads

I tried 15 Bounderz in a 1k list but exept with the MW, it was hard to make them all attack, so I had the same idea to replace 5 of them with a Loonboss on giant cave squig.

The only change with your first list is to replace 1 unit of squig herds with 1 unit of stabbas and then add the Scuttletide (maybe our best endless spell)

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2 hours ago, kamuffinz said:

Right here!

I'd love your opinion on my post above with 1k lists.  

Looking for opinions on the following:

1) In 1k (even 2k), thoughts on Loonboss on Giant Cave Squig, in 1k I'd have to cut some Bounderz down to 10.

2)  Hand of Gork vs Squig Lure if you're only taking one spell?

Attacked is my 2k Gitz list. Look if interested :)

gitz 2k squigs.pdf

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Monster Mash anyone? Have made some changes based on feedback. Will this be enough bodies if I can recycle through the shrine?

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Loonboss on Mangler Squigs(300)
- General
- Trait: Fight Another Day  
Troggoth Hag (380)
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm 
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
- Lore of the Moonclans: The Hand of Gork

Battleline
40 x Stabbas (260)
- Pokin Spears & Moon Shields
20 x Stabbas (130)
- Pokin Spears & Moon Shields
20 x Shootas (130)

Behemoths
Colossal Squig (300)
Rogue Idol (400)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 144

Edited by 5kaven5lave
Edited list

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10 hours ago, GlitzFan said:

@Malakree

Well I currently have 40 spears and 40 swords built and painted. I now have 2 more boxes on sprue.

What combination would you suggest? Bearing in mind I like the idea of hand of gork and being aggressive + using mushroom whilst holding the enemy inside the mushroom.

If you don't have at least 500 grots then I don't know what to tell you...

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1 hour ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Any thoughts chaps?

Why make the Hag the general?  She can't take any of the Gloomspite general traits so there does not seem to be any reason.  You can still give her the relic without needing her to be the general.  If you make the Loonboss your general then you can give him Fight Another Day or Dead Shouty.  Fight Another Day would probably be better for your list since you don't have many targets for the Loonboss command ability - but using it on himself is not terrible.  If you make the Fungoid the general then you can get a number of interesting & fun command trait options such as Boss Shaman, Great Shaman, or Loon-touched.

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3 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

hope you don’t mind a Skavenplayer amidst your group (don’t worry I want betray you guys😀, although I have 12voices in my head telling me other wise, but just trust Us-us, we are-are very trust worthy)

Skarsnik already provided the blue-print about how to deal with Skaven neighbors that get uppity.

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4 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

Skarsnik already provided the blue-print about how to deal with Skaven neighbors that get uppity.

Well has he ever dealt with 13 ratman, fused together through hate, plague, might and cunning?

Well since most hated skarsnik isn’t her to tell the tale anymore, I guess this leaves you to find out.😜

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