AoS 2 - Gloomspite Gitz Discussion

[Nezzhil]

Dankhold Trogboss 250          -20
Dankhold Troggoth 190         -10

Gobbapalooza 180                   -20

Trogg Battalion 170                -10
Rogue Idol (allied) 420           +20 (bye bye)

[Ganigumo]

31 minutes ago, Nezzhil said:

Dankhold Trogboss 250          -20
Dankhold Troggoth 190         -10

Gobbapalooza 180                   -20

Trogg Battalion 170                -10
Rogue Idol (allied) 420           +20 (bye bye)

My disappointment is immeasurable, and my day is ruined.

Its amazing the Troggboss has come down 50 points since release, despite it actually having a role and a reason to take it, while the dankhold Troggoth is just now coming down a miniscule amount that won't put it anywhere near playable.

[Eldarain]

How do they reconcile these changes with the table performance? So sick of there being a casual "fun book" team and a "power book" team.

[Nezzhil]

3 minutes ago, Eldarain said:

How do they reconcile these changes with the table performance? So sick of there being a casual "fun book" team and a "power book" team.

It's impossible, and the thing that makes me very angry is they didn't change any points for the FW units buuuut... all the FW greater demons get changes. Why the difference of treatment with the 40k-AoS armies and the others? Khorne, Nurgle, Tzeentch or Slaanesh (with the point increase) are more active than Gloosmpite or other lesser armies...

 

The problem that I have it is not that our army has worse Faction rules, the problem is the treatment with other armies that have one thing in common, they're 40k compatible... Why bonegrinder, hag, colossal or gobba are fine, and the 3 exalted, the verminlord and the khorne characters needs a point reduction?.

[Dingding123]

Hey all!  I'm a fairly green Gitz player with nearly 1k worth of gitz (including allies) and a decent grasp of the core rules and Gitz rulings.  I've done a lot of theorycrafting regarding 2k armies and I need some input on which direction I should go with one now that the 2020 handbook has come out.

First I've got two main limitations.  I want Skragrott as general; he's somewhat expensive but I love the guy and everything about him.  I also don't care for a massive battleline, particularly of Stabbas - the reason I'm not playing 40k is because I'd never care to paint/play with 100+ samey models .  Honestly I don't even care to invest in the Loonshrine as it crowds up melee space and IMO it's an absolute eyesore. -Sorry to anyone here I've horribly offended with that lol.

Next, there are other pieces I absolutely need in my 2k scroll:

• Skraggrott as general (220pt)- he's somewhat expensive but I love this guy and everything about him.
• 170+pts other Wizards: I'm thinking a Fungoid to help create/dispense CPs and a Webspinner to help potentially cast Scuttletide.  I like Wizards but am on the fence about adding more beyond these; more on that later.
• ~150pts of Endless Spells: Malevolent Moon is awesome and so is Scuttletide.  I'm thinking Skragrott can have a field day with those on top of a Maelstrom and it'd be funny as well.     
• Small Squig Herd battleline - I love these guys.  At least 280pts worth.
• Savage Boarboys as allies: I love these guys and I think they can put in work in a pitched battle as well.  They've got reliable movement plus a lot of attacks and wounds and a strong charge.  Ideally they'd contest the control point furthest away from Da Bad Moon so that there's more room in melee for those that benefit.  130pts for five, or 260 but for two separate units since in a unit of ten if five die at once the other five are definitely going to flee.
• Mollog (170pt).  Frontline with a great big (and only $25!) butt.  Melee attack is roughly 1d6 unconditional mortals but it doesn't roll for hit or wounds AND it ignore saves.  The +1 bravery potentially preservess command points if only one or two friendly models are slain in a nearby unit.

I have a few ideas for filling in the ~800pts needed for pitched battles but I'm stuck between:

• an Arachnarok Spider Cluster battalion.
• Bounderz (dat charge) plus other Squig goodstuffs.
• Troggoths despite no general or battleline; they seem super point-efficient rn!
• Gobbapalooza (now 180) plus even more Wizards and endless spells OR some combination of these and Troggoths.
• literally waiting for Behemats to come out instead lol.

Any help picking between these would be great!  Personally I'm stumped, but I do expect both Squig synergies and tons of Troggoths would be the biggest hit on my wallet so other ideas might be the best place to start.  If nothing's as good as those then that's perfectly fine as well; honestly I currently like all of these ideas equally, granted I have no experience with 2k+ games.

[webert1]

Howdy fellow wargammers.

I'm looking at getting into AoS as well and am strongly considering the Gitz.

I see a lot of gloom over the upcoming GHB though.

I have a couple of questions then :

1. Would you recommend getting into GSG given its current state?

2. Even if they are not an S-tier are they an army that stands a chance and can be played against other competitive armies?

3.  For a 1000 points army, and a first step, what whould you think of the following :

- Loonboss.

- Fungoid Shaman. - Hand of Gork

- Webspinner Shaman (on foot) - Sneaky Distraction

- 40 Stabbas

- 40 Stabbas

- 10 Boingrot Bounderz

- Scuttletide

Is this a reasonable 1000 point list?

Any assistance will be greatly appreciateed.

[Nezzhil]

@Dingding123  if you're planning to play GHB20, you need battlelines and leaders.

The Gobbapalooza is a unit that only works in Moonclan armies with blobs of stabbas. 

Be careful with the sinergies.

 

@webert1 your list is fine for 1k games. GSG is possible the hardest army to be an expert in AoS. It's very hard to win with them. 

I love play with them. They're one of the best board control army in AoS, but you need to have the initiative, make traps and decide when and where the opponent is going to fight.

[Hannibal]

7 hours ago, Dingding123 said:

I have a few ideas for filling in the ~800pts needed for pitched battles but I'm stuck between:
 

• an Arachnarok Spider Cluster battalion.
• Bounderz (dat charge) plus other Squig goodstuffs.
• Troggoths despite no general or battleline; they seem super point-efficient rn!
• Gobbapalooza (now 180) plus even more Wizards and endless spells OR some combination of these and Troggoths.
• literally waiting for Behemats to come out instead lol.

Any help picking between these would be great!  Personally I'm stumped, but I do expect both Squig synergies and tons of Troggoths would be the biggest hit on my wallet so other ideas might be the best place to start.  If nothing's as good as those then that's perfectly fine as well; honestly I currently like all of these ideas equally, granted I have no experience with 2k+ games.

Well, besides the cash needed you really can´t go wrong with a Trogboss and 2 units of Troggoths for battlelines. That´s just 7 models which look awesome!

Unfortunately Boingrot Bounderz can not become battleline. I think it´s better for you to get the battleline you really like the look of. You mentioned an Arachnarok Spider therefore Spider Riders can also be a good battleline for you. They do nothing but screen your army, but at least they are relatively low cost (aside from the Arachnarok itself).

A unit of 20 Shootaz with some added Fanatics can also be a good battleline. They can screen your army. You can teleport them and release the Fanatics for a 6" charge which can be surprisingly effective. Or miserably fail, but that´s how Gitz work.

[Dankboss]

6 Rockgut Troggoths are always a good choice.

[Pitloze]

Not sure how much competitive talk is appreciated here but I would like some feedback. I'm abandoning the endless spell spam list I had in mind. Since just 3 spells won't cut it. What is the next best thing Gitz can be build towards in the upcoming meta?

I still thinking Geminids, Scuttletide and maybe Vortex/pendulum are solid spells to bring.

1. Skragrott dropped immensely in value for me. He was the linchpin in the endless spells spam list. And his own spell actually let you destroy ethereal amulets. Now that both of those things are gone I don't see what he does except provide more CP.

2. The coming meta feels like it's going to be elite heavy (with a lot of strong magic). We don't do elite well but we do hordes. Problem is that even bringing a ton of fanatics might not even cut it vs the newer elites. The whole reason for the endless spell spam was to rain down mortal wounds on those elites. And the elite armies have ways to thin down hordes fast enough that they can still play the objective game.

3. Now the Hag has 0 artifact options to bring. Maybe there will be a next malign sorcery. But it's a bummer. Gryph feather charm on her made her at least somewhat playable for her massive 380 pts.

4. I'm not sure if it's better to reduce our hero's or increase it. Since a lot of armies have ways to reach our squishy hero's. Gobbopalooza went down in points. but probably not enough to actually make them viable.  Trogg hero's might be okay since they wont die in one hit and can at least heal a bit up every turn. But maybe having 6 hero's + gobbopalooza will confuse opponents enough that some key leaders might live.

5. I'm still hoping the new Sons of Behemat units will have interaction with us.

[Dankboss]

3 hours ago, Pitloze said:

Not sure how much competitive talk is appreciated here but I would like some feedback. I'm abandoning the endless spell spam list I had in mind. Since just 3 spells won't cut it. What is the next best thing Gitz can be build towards in the upcoming meta?

I still thinking Geminids, Scuttletide and maybe Vortex/pendulum are solid spells to bring.

1. Skragrott dropped immensely in value for me. He was the linchpin in the endless spells spam list. And his own spell actually let you destroy ethereal amulets. Now that both of those things are gone I don't see what he does except provide more CP.

2. The coming meta feels like it's going to be elite heavy (with a lot of strong magic). We don't do elite well but we do hordes. Problem is that even bringing a ton of fanatics might not even cut it vs the newer elites. The whole reason for the endless spell spam was to rain down mortal wounds on those elites. And the elite armies have ways to thin down hordes fast enough that they can still play the objective game.

3. Now the Hag has 0 artifact options to bring. Maybe there will be a next malign sorcery. But it's a bummer. Gryph feather charm on her made her at least somewhat playable for her massive 380 pts.

4. I'm not sure if it's better to reduce our hero's or increase it. Since a lot of armies have ways to reach our squishy hero's. Gobbopalooza went down in points. but probably not enough to actually make them viable.  Trogg hero's might be okay since they wont die in one hit and can at least heal a bit up every turn. But maybe having 6 hero's + gobbopalooza will confuse opponents enough that some key leaders might live.

5. I'm still hoping the new Sons of Behemat units will have interaction with us.

The meta is shifting towards high armor and shooting right now, thanks to OBR, Tzeentch and Seraphon; both of which we have tools to deal with, while some armies are left in the dust with no answer. The Madcap Shaman's value has gone up recently imo, thanks to his -1 to hit from missile weapons spell, and Moonface Mommet. Now he's extremely vulnerable, so he's not easy to use, but still at 80 points he certainly has value and the tools for the job. I'm returning him to my list at least.

Rockguts are a good investment due to their massive damage and 5+ ward save, so they'll always be a relevant and safe choice for most matchups.

Now we're still probably going to get dunked on, but it's not hopeless. We'll have to see how the new GHB changes the aforementioned armies first.

Vince Venturella was discussing another shift towards 'Spell Doms' with the release of Lumineth, so I think Skragrott does still have value with Cauldron to at least try and compete with a +2. This also increases the Dankboss' value a bit, thanks to his magic resistance. Having a hero that can't be sniped is value in its own right.

[Nezzhil]

Spoiler

 

Skragrott, The Loonking 220pts General

Spell: The Hand of Gork

 

Madcap Shamans 80pts

Artefact: Moonface Mommet

Spell: The Great Green Spite

 

Dankhold Troggboss 250pts

Artefact: Glowy Howzit

 

Loonboss 70pts

Artefact: Loonstone Talisman

 

Stabbas 260pts

Quantity: 40

 

Stabbas 260pts

Quantity: 40

 

Shootas 120pts

Quantity: 20

 

Gobbapalooza 180pts

 

Sporesplatta Fanatics 120pts

Quantity: 5

 

Loonsmasha Fanatics 140pts

Quantity: 5

 

Sporesplatta Fanatics 120pts

Quantity: 5

 

Gobbapalooza 110pts

Skulkmob Horde 160pts

 

Malevolent Moon 40pts

Scuttletide 30pts

Scrapskuttle’s Arachnacauldron 40pts

 

 

@Dankbossthis is my new experiment for my first tournament in two weeks with the new GHB20. One of the few things we can do now it's the possibility of the Skragrott + Dankhold + Cauldron

Edited July 9, 2020 by Nezzhil

[Ganigumo]

2 hours ago, Dankboss said:

The meta is shifting towards high armor and shooting right now, thanks to OBR, Tzeentch and Seraphon; both of which we have tools to deal with, while some armies are left in the dust with no answer. The Madcap Shaman's value has gone up recently imo, thanks to his -1 to hit from missile weapons spell, and Moonface Mommet. Now he's extremely vulnerable, so he's not easy to use, but still at 80 points he certainly has value and the tools for the job. I'm returning him to my list at least.

Rockguts are a good investment due to their massive damage and 5+ ward save, so they'll always be a relevant and safe choice for most matchups.

Now we're still probably going to get dunked on, but it's not hopeless. We'll have to see how the new GHB changes the aforementioned armies first.

Vince Venturella was discussing another shift towards 'Spell Doms' with the release of Lumineth, so I think Skragrott does still have value with Cauldron to at least try and compete with a +2. This also increases the Dankboss' value a bit, thanks to his magic resistance. Having a hero that can't be sniped is value in its own right.

Magic domination is certainly the way things look to be going, seraphon have crazy dispelling too. I know for my ironjawz I've started playing bloodtoofs and dropped the shaman entirely. I don't think gitz have the luxury of dropping magic and still staying competitive. I wonder if it might be worth running a Loonskin Troggboss general in a more grot focused list over skragrott. It would let you fit a unit of rockguts in as battleline over one of the Grot units to diversify the force. I haven't seen much about it, but the seraphon matchup looks really bad for us (kroak sniping our foot heroes stopping our inspiring presence) and having a troggboss might help mitigate that.

[Dankboss]

Fortunately, we can build a Troggboss to essentially be immune to spells if we have to, and as I said before, just having a hero that can't be taken out at range is a big deal. Look out Sir, Cover, Nightshroud, Magical Resistance, Realmstone Studded Hide and Shiny Wotnot/ Glowy Howsit if we really have to, makes for a seriously tough hero to snipe.

[Shmaravoz]

Check out new BattleReport: Gitz vs Ogors!
 

 

[ruphfus]

The rogue idol points increase is ridiculous. A $100+ model that very few people even include in army lists, which has an inherent ability that applies specifically to GROT wizards, can no longer be taken as an ally in a GROT army. Absolutely absurd. This makes me mad as at least in a gloomspite army the idol has some value, opposed to orruks with significantly less wizards. Heck, gloomspite has 7 wizards in their battle tome (counting the hag). They better update the idols warscroll and add gloomspite to it so it doesn’t have to be allied in, otherwise the thing is useless, why even have GROT as a keyword as its ability. 

[Dingding123]

Thanks all - by the way is it a limit of 3 endless spells on the board at one time or 3 endless spells on a warscroll period?

[Eldarain]

I think it's a max of 3 on your army list. Though I'm going from hearsay.

[DestructionFranz]

From an economic point of view, the increase of 20 points of the Rogue Idol is just the most stupid move that GW could make. 

[Hannibal]

5 hours ago, Dingding123 said:

Thanks all - by the way is it a limit of 3 endless spells on the board at one time or 3 endless spells on a warscroll period?

Up to 3 on your list if playing 2000 points.

[Malakithe]

****** competitive! Squigs and Troggoths! Might need to do some changes to my list soon. Maybe drop a shaman for a madcap then use the extra points to swap the mangler into  troggboss. And change the item since I was using the gryph feather charm...you will be missed.

Loonboss on Mangler Squigs (280)
- General
- Command Trait: Fight Another Day
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
- Lore of the Moonclans: The Hand of Gork
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
- Lore of the Moonclans: Itchy Nuisance
12 x Squig Herd (140)
12 x Squig Herd (140)
12 x Squig Herd (140)
10 x Boingrot Bounderz (200)
6 x Rockgut Troggoths (280)
6 x Rockgut Troggoths (280)
Mangler Squigs (240)
Mork's Mighty Mushroom (90)
Scuttletide (30)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Wounds: 172

[a74xhx]

On 7/9/2020 at 12:57 PM, Pitloze said:

3. Now the Hag has 0 artifact options to bring. Maybe there will be a next malign sorcery. But it's a bummer. Gryph feather charm on her made her at least somewhat playable for her massive 380 pts.

Is that confirmed? I know the realm artefacts are being dropped, but I thought they were being replaced with a smaller, less potent set?

 

[Nezzhil]

31 minutes ago, a74xhx said:

Is that confirmed? I know the realm artefacts are being dropped, but I thought they were being replaced with a smaller, less potent set?

 

One for each realm.

Reroll 1 to hit

Reroll 1 to wound

Reroll 1 to save

Ignore -1 rend

Reroll charge

Each 6 to hit add one more hit

Heal 1 wound each hero phase

 

[a74xhx]

42 minutes ago, Nezzhil said:

One for each realm.

Reroll 1 to hit

Reroll 1 to wound

Reroll 1 to save

Ignore -1 rend

Reroll charge

Each 6 to hit add one more hit

Heal 1 wound each hero phase

 

Yeah... that's definitely a smaller, less potent set 😅 😪

It's possible that an upcoming GG FAQ could change the wording of the Troggoth artefacts to remove Dankhold keyword. Or, more likely, the Hag warscroll is updated to include Dankhold keyword.

But assuming it doesn't - Is the Hag worth taking now?

 

(I have a vested interest here - it's my birthday soon, and with Behemat not coming anytime soon, was considering getting myself the Hag)

[Nezzhil]

44 minutes ago, a74xhx said:

Yeah... that's definitely a smaller, less potent set 😅 😪

It's possible that an upcoming GG FAQ could change the wording of the Troggoth artefacts to remove Dankhold keyword. Or, more likely, the Hag warscroll is updated to include Dankhold keyword.

But assuming it doesn't - Is the Hag worth taking now?

 

(I have a vested interest here - it's my birthday soon, and with Behemat not coming anytime soon, was considering getting myself the Hag)

The problem with the FW models is that they didn't get any point reduction again... and we don't know if this is because GW is thinking to remove them from the store as it happened with most of the Skaven models.