Making Soup

[Arkanaut Admiral]

So we now have the Legions Of Nagash and Beasts Of Chaos books, the ‘Soup’ books, which nicely combine several factions together. 

 

What other kinds of soup books could we have in future?  Me, I could see a Order themed one that takes the freeguild, ironweld arsenal , colligate arcane,  etc and puts them together.  I could also see separate greenskin and ogre ones too.  

What about you guys?

[Ben]

I’d love to see the various Aelves get some love. 

[Enoby]

I think, as a general rule, any army that was split from Fantasy could do with being put back together in at least some form. I don't mean exactly how they were in Fantasy (e.g. DoK are fine on their own), but things like Empire, Dark Elves, High Elves, and Skaven could do with being put back together in at least some form. Many of those armies don't look like they'll be expanded upon again, so giving them a book to tidy them up would be nice for current fans. A way to give closure to those factions. 

[Kronos]

Id like to see Sylvaneth, wanderers and maybe some order beasts soup. Order soup with freeguild, dispossedsed and high aelf miltia. A second Chaos Soup that Brings all the brings Chaos undivided under one tome.  And I’d like to see Ogor soup, nay, I think they need it.

[kenshin620]

This may sound like an insane conspiracy.....but I think all Grots might combine into one book rather than a standalone Moonclan book.

1. Grots had a combined 2.0 preview (much like Beasts of Chaos who many people thought was some cruel joke)

2.  Many Grot units use very generic names rather than differentiated names. For example the grot boss on a spider is simply "Grot Big Boss on Gigantic Spider" rather than "Spiderfang Big Boss". They even used the same EXACT name for the Grot Shaman whether its Gitmob or Mooncaln (and I have yet to see any FAQ/Errata on the matter). So they technically have the same unit name and same bolded KEYWORD name.

3. Despite some people wanting an old school orcs n goblins book, I can't really see that happening currently with the lack of cross grot and orruk synergies (other than Snotlings). For crying out loud, the greenskin Orruk Warboss tends to be a very popular ally for Ironjawz and Bonesplitterz.

 

 

ON THE OTHER HAND Moonclan is singled out via the Malign Portent harbinger so who knows. Maybe there would be a combined book where you can dedicate your grots to either Grokamorka, the Spider God, or the Bad Moon, or maybe I'm reading too much into lazy classification and the really odd 2.0 previews back months ago!

[Ben]

I always thought a generic Greenskinz book would be a given.  Same with Skaven.  Seems to be the way things are going with Chaos.  There are too many factions that all follow the same god.  

[froo]

6 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

 Maybe there would be a combined book where you can dedicate your grots to either Grokamorka

I think that Gitmob theme is actually super generic and imo is not that great. 

Since AoS is set millennia after Warhammer and Gitmob were always the more technically advanced part of the Goblin race, I'd like to see them get a more advanced base of their technology (steam-power perhaps?) that has a chance to just backfire  in a much more spectacular way: doing mortal wounds to every unit around them, both friend and foe as a wayto differentiate them from Clan Skryre.

That way, they'd still have that insanity that I associate with grots, but with a much more brutal mechanical aesthetic which we don't see much of in AoS.

Cos right now, using the current Gitmob, we have Shamans, Infantry, Cavalry, Chariots, Warmachines and Snotlings - you could pretty much fold that into Spiderfang by giving Spiderfang access to Infantry, Chariot analogs could be a heavy cavalry medium sized "giant spiders" and Snotlings you could make out of the spiderlings that come on the Arachnarok sprue (which you could then replicate in future on theoretical infantry and giant spider sprues). Shamans on Foot could be the Shamans that come from the Arachnarok model in the same way that Heralds on Foot come from the Burning Chariot for Daemons of Tzeentch.

Sure, it will annoy people who currently have Gitmob models, but I'm not seeing very many people get drawn to them. Spiderfang and Moonclan are ranges that capture people's attentions. I think either fold Gitmob into Spiderfang with a couple ranges and get rid of Gitmob, or redo the aesthetic to appeal to a high fantasy genre.

[JPjr]

Honestly for the sake of the game I think they need to do this. Even after collapsing half the factions into soup armies you're still left with a vast number of armies, more than can reasonably be supported in any meaningful way within the lifetime of a game's edition, and especially so if the future is about introducing, and supporting, brand new factions who are unique to AoS (after all everyone is already desperate for KO to get an update).

Plus to give it more oomph, they could all be thematically linked to the rise of the new cities and could make for a fun narrative campaign too, SOUP WARS! (in fact you could easily work in the Beasts of Chaos too, they'd have a similar animus to the rise of cities as the Great Horde would, but maybe in this case it's more the Free Cities expanding into the wilds and encroaching on their space).

So I'd opt for the following as a way of throwing some love at these older units and models without having to produce entire new ranges...

The Free Cities / Combines - Ironweld Arsenal, Disposessed, Collegiate Arcane, Phoenix Temple, Order Serpentis, Eldritch Council, Devoted of Sigmar, Wanderers, Free People, Swifthawk Agents, Lion Rangers, Order Draconis, Darkling Covens, Scourge Privateers, Shadowblades.

Sigmar's Stormcast Eternals have struck back in each of the mortal realms, claiming vital realm gates. But if the lightning boys are off being literal stormtroopers, someone has to stay and defend theses newly bridgeheads. So around each captured gate has sprung up a city populated by those (and their descendants) who sought refuge in Azyr when Archaon's wrath first swept across the realms and the Aelves have been abandoned to their fate by Teclis, Tyrion and Maelrion who have shiny new Aelf toys to play with.

The book would provide rules for several different cities in different realms, like Stormhosts, that each come with certain rules, abilities, colour schemes etc. Some  might have restrictions on what they can field, so they may be be more (trad) Aelf focused whilst others more magically inclined or more based around war machines and nascent technology or they might be port based cities to introduce a naval theme. This  would provide a way to make the disparate forces have a reason to be working together, unified liveries etc so they feel more like an army than just a ragtag bunch of old models thrown together, and would be easy to include rules to create your own city.

And as I've said before an army that wasn't racially just one thing is actually quite unusual whilst making total sense within the lore, each of these small factions exist within the new cities and have roles to play, whether as scouts keeping an eye on the surrounding areas, defending the cities or keeping them running. And you could certainly imagine certain sub-factions, Darkling Covens etc whilst wanting to still be part of Sigmar's grand order (of Order), wanting to set up camp away from Azyr where they might have a bit more freedom to pursue their own interests.

Loads of models/units to pick and choose from, just give them some endless spells and maybe some new general type figures who could represent a senior figure form some of the main factions.

The Great Horde / Combines - Beastclaw Raiders, Greenskinz, Gitmob Grots, Maneaters, Troggoths, Firebellies, Gutbusters, Aleguzzler Gargants

In the vast plains of Ghur a new power has arisen. Angered by the rise of new cities and the return of civilization to the realms a great Ogre Tyrant has appeared, stronger, larger and smarter than your average ogor he has carved out his own nomadic empire and declared himself Khan. Leading his army on a rampage of destruction he has attracted to his cause all the disparate (read neglected) forces of disorder under one tattered banner.

A thematic counterpoint to the Free Cities, The Great Horde sweeps across the realms like a plague of angry club wielding locusts, destroying, looting and pillaging everything in sight. Civilisation brought chaos and ruin to the realms and now the Great Tyrant Khan will offer them all up to his god the Great Maw as a sacrifice, whether the people of the Free Cities like it or not.

This would give a point to all these factions existing, yes they're brutes deadset on wrecking your ****** but they're not mindless any more. They're on a holy jihad to cleanse the realms of civilization, for its own good and return everything to its primal, natural state. Well at least the chiefs are, the rest just know there's a good fight going on. and want in on it.

Loads of models/units to pick and choose from, just give them some endless spells, a new model for the Tyrant king.

The Children of the Horned Rat / Combines - Masterclan, Clan Skyre, Clan Verminus, Clan Moulder, Clan Pestilens, Clan Eshin

Well this is just obvious really, but lets say The Horned Rat having elevated himself to the Pantheon of the Chaos is hungry for more power and a new Verminlord has arisen to, just about, unify the backstabbing little rat men.

Once again it can be linked back to the rise of the Free Cities. As these new metropolises grow and expand, well all that aelf, human and duardin effluent needs to go somewhere and when they're not building machines of war the engineers of the Ironweld are busy building giant sewer systems under the new cities. Sewer systems that are home to thousands of rats and their larger kin.

As Crowley taught us 'As above, so below' and beneath each of the gleaming new cities of Hammerhal, Glymsforge etc grows a vile, twisted reflection, a mockery of all that Sigmar holds dear and threatens to destroy the new shoots of order by gnawing at their roots.

Obviously they need some new plastic models, but not a huge amount as there's still lots to choose from, but throw in some endless spells, a new large character and some kind of thematic scenery piece like the Herdstone, maybe a Black Pillar of Commandment.

The Ruinstorm / Combines - Everchosen, Slaves to Darkness, Darkoath, Daemons of Chaos, Monsters of Chaos

For over half a millennium the forces of chaos led by the Everchosen have held the Mortal Realms in their mailed fist. The people, and indeed creature and land itself, that found themselves under the boot of Archaon and his dire lieutenants have been twisted out of all recognition. But now for the first time they find themselves on the back foot as the forces of order strike back across the realms.

Order may still only have the tiniest of toeholds but that's still an affront to the Dark Gods and their herald who has rallied the warriors of chaos, the barbarian tribes and the creatures of the realms that have been mutated beyond recognition and once more leads them against the tiny flickering flames of hope that are the Free Cities.

Just add Darkoath as an interesting new faction to represent the tribes that were left behind when the gates of Azyr were barred and you have a big old army to pick and choose from.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Best thing about is is people can pick and choose, want their Free City to be mainly Duardin? Well you do you my friend, welcome to Nu-Karak but now you can thematically add in a few wizards or whatnot and have it make sense.

You still have hundreds of Gitmob models? well yours is just one wing of the Great Horde but now you can add in a select few models and get some new abilities to buff you up.

I mean combine all those into 4 big tomes and that still leaves an absolute unholy amount of armies to pick and choose from, but it makes it slightly more manageable, throws a bone to older collectors and a lifeline to older models (I know I'd be tempted to create my own 'Free City') and means they can concentrate on padding out, updating or in the case of Dark/Light Aelves, releasing all the other ranges that are new (or newish) to AoS.

Anyway is it really obvious that I have loads of work that I need to do this morning and am desperately looking for things to do that aren't that...

 

 

[Kirjava13]

The sort of detailed wishlisting that gets me through the day. Great read, thanks!

[Waiyuren]

I'd like to see a free cities book with some updated firestorm cities, and maybe a template for making your own.

MtG's Ravnica setting is amazing for organizing disparate races into cohesive idealogical factions. I'd love to see something similar in a battletome.

[Orsino]

5 hours ago, JPjr said:

Honestly for the sake of the game I think they need to do this. Even after collapsing half the factions into soup armies you're still left with a vast number of armies, more than can reasonably be supported in any meaningful way within the lifetime of a game's edition, and especially so if the future is about introducing, and supporting, brand new factions who are unique to AoS (after all everyone is already desperate for KO to get an update).

Plus to give it more oomph, they could all be thematically linked to the rise of the new cities and could make for a fun narrative campaign too, SOUP WARS! (in fact you could easily work in the Beasts of Chaos too, they'd have a similar animus to the rise of cities as the Great Horde would, but maybe in this case it's more the Free Cities expanding into the wilds and encroaching on their space).

So I'd opt for the following as a way of throwing some love at these older units and models without having to produce entire new ranges...

The Free Cities / Combines - Ironweld Arsenal, Disposessed, Collegiate Arcane, Phoenix Temple, Order Serpentis, Eldritch Council, Devoted of Sigmar, Wanderers, Free People, Swifthawk Agents, Lion Rangers, Order Draconis, Darkling Covens, Scourge Privateers, Shadowblades.

Sigmar's Stormcast Eternals have struck back in each of the mortal realms, claiming vital realm gates. But if the lightning boys are off being literal stormtroopers, someone has to stay and defend theses newly bridgeheads. So around each captured gate has sprung up a city populated by those (and their descendants) who sought refuge in Azyr when Archaon's wrath first swept across the realms and the Aelves have been abandoned to their fate by Teclis, Tyrion and Maelrion who have shiny new Aelf toys to play with.

The book would provide rules for several different cities in different realms, like Stormhosts, that each come with certain rules, abilities, colour schemes etc. Some  might have restrictions on what they can field, so they may be be more (trad) Aelf focused whilst others more magically inclined or more based around war machines and nascent technology or they might be port based cities to introduce a naval theme. This  would provide a way to make the disparate forces have a reason to be working together, unified liveries etc so they feel more like an army than just a ragtag bunch of old models thrown together, and would be easy to include rules to create your own city.

And as I've said before an army that wasn't racially just one thing is actually quite unusual whilst making total sense within the lore, each of these small factions exist within the new cities and have roles to play, whether as scouts keeping an eye on the surrounding areas, defending the cities or keeping them running. And you could certainly imagine certain sub-factions, Darkling Covens etc whilst wanting to still be part of Sigmar's grand order (of Order), wanting to set up camp away from Azyr where they might have a bit more freedom to pursue their own interests.

Loads of models/units to pick and choose from, just give them some endless spells and maybe some new general type figures who could represent a senior figure form some of the main factions.

The Great Horde / Combines - Beastclaw Raiders, Greenskinz, Gitmob Grots, Maneaters, Troggoths, Firebellies, Gutbusters, Aleguzzler Gargants

In the vast plains of Ghur a new power has arisen. Angered by the rise of new cities and the return of civilization to the realms a great Ogre Tyrant has appeared, stronger, larger and smarter than your average ogor he has carved out his own nomadic empire and declared himself Khan. Leading his army on a rampage of destruction he has attracted to his cause all the disparate (read neglected) forces of disorder under one tattered banner.

A thematic counterpoint to the Free Cities, The Great Horde sweeps across the realms like a plague of angry club wielding locusts, destroying, looting and pillaging everything in sight. Civilisation brought chaos and ruin to the realms and now the Great Tyrant Khan will offer them all up to his god the Great Maw as a sacrifice, whether the people of the Free Cities like it or not.

This would give a point to all these factions existing, yes they're brutes deadset on wrecking your ****** but they're not mindless any more. They're on a holy jihad to cleanse the realms of civilization, for its own good and return everything to its primal, natural state. Well at least the chiefs are, the rest just know there's a good fight going on. and want in on it.

Loads of models/units to pick and choose from, just give them some endless spells, a new model for the Tyrant king.

The Children of the Horned Rat / Combines - Masterclan, Clan Skyre, Clan Verminus, Clan Moulder, Clan Pestilens, Clan Eshin

Well this is just obvious really, but lets say The Horned Rat having elevated himself to the Pantheon of the Chaos is hungry for more power and a new Verminlord has arisen to, just about, unify the backstabbing little rat men.

Once again it can be linked back to the rise of the Free Cities. As these new metropolises grow and expand, well all that aelf, human and duardin effluent needs to go somewhere and when they're not building machines of war the engineers of the Ironweld are busy building giant sewer systems under the new cities. Sewer systems that are home to thousands of rats and their larger kin.

As Crowley taught us 'As above, so below' and beneath each of the gleaming new cities of Hammerhal, Glymsforge etc grows a vile, twisted reflection, a mockery of all that Sigmar holds dear and threatens to destroy the new shoots of order by gnawing at their roots.

Obviously they need some new plastic models, but not a huge amount as there's still lots to choose from, but throw in some endless spells, a new large character and some kind of thematic scenery piece like the Herdstone, maybe a Black Pillar of Commandment.

The Ruinstorm / Combines - Everchosen, Slaves to Darkness, Darkoath, Daemons of Chaos, Monsters of Chaos

For over half a millennium the forces of chaos led by the Everchosen have held the Mortal Realms in their mailed fist. The people, and indeed creature and land itself, that found themselves under the boot of Archaon and his dire lieutenants have been twisted out of all recognition. But now for the first time they find themselves on the back foot as the forces of order strike back across the realms.

Order may still only have the tiniest of toeholds but that's still an affront to the Dark Gods and their herald who has rallied the warriors of chaos, the barbarian tribes and the creatures of the realms that have been mutated beyond recognition and once more leads them against the tiny flickering flames of hope that are the Free Cities.

Just add Darkoath as an interesting new faction to represent the tribes that were left behind when the gates of Azyr were barred and you have a big old army to pick and choose from.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Best thing about is is people can pick and choose, want their Free City to be mainly Duardin? Well you do you my friend, welcome to Nu-Karak but now you can thematically add in a few wizards or whatnot and have it make sense.

You still have hundreds of Gitmob models? well yours is just one wing of the Great Horde but now you can add in a select few models and get some new abilities to buff you up.

I mean combine all those into 4 big tomes and that still leaves an absolute unholy amount of armies to pick and choose from, but it makes it slightly more manageable, throws a bone to older collectors and a lifeline to older models (I know I'd be tempted to create my own 'Free City') and means they can concentrate on padding out, updating or in the case of Dark/Light Aelves, releasing all the other ranges that are new (or newish) to AoS.

Anyway is it really obvious that I have loads of work that I need to do this morning and am desperately looking for things to do that aren't that...

 

 

Unified chaos, skaven and ogre battletomes make complete sense to me but I think chucking every little order faction into one batteltome might be a bit much. That's a lot of very disparate models and a unifying colour scheme can only do so much. Plus some of the factions you're including such as wanderers could stand on their own with one or two new models and at least one or two of these factions will probably get the DoK treatment eventually.

With factions you need a distinctive character to tie them together. I think of it in terms of two word pitches; "rat-men", "sea aelves", "green skins", "lightning paladins", "beast-men", "walking trees", "human empire" and "aztec dinosaurs" all work fine. "Humans and dwarves and half a dozen different flavours of aelves all vaguely tied together by free cities" isn't as strong.

[JPjr]

@Orsino yeah I agree the Free Cities one is kind of pushing it but the way I see it is for most of those factions it's probably that or nothing. There are just too many other armies to cater for, and they clearly want to introduce more, so I think these legacy ones will only survive in any meaningful way by collapsing them.

But I'm not sure it's impossible to create interesting themes out of them, especially if there were some restrictions in place tied to the choice of city. So for instance the gilded city of Sto'Phammertime might be more focused on one specific area, whether magic, war machines, dragons or whatever and so the units they can pick from reflect that theme, which gives it more of a grounding.

At the end of the day people with old Dwarf/High Elf/Wood Elf etc armies could still just field them under this new scheme in some way but would get some new abilities and an option to add in some other models to plug gaps in their forces in a way that feels less contrived than random allies.

At the end of the day even if (and that's an almighty if there) this did happen you'd still be looking at a game system with regularly updated battle tomes for...

DEATH

• Legion of Nagash
• Nighthaunt

ORDER

• Free Cities
• Stormcast Eternal
• Sylvaneth
• Kharadon Overlords
• Fyreslayers
• Seraphon
• Idoneth Deepkin
• Daughters of Khaine
• Light Aelves (TBC)
• Dark Aelves (TBC)

CHAOS

• The Ruinstorm
• The Children of the Horned Rat
• Blades of Khorne
• Maggotkin of Nurgle
• Disciples of Tzeentch
• Beasts of Chaos

DESTRUCTION

• The Great Horde
• Ironjawz
• Bonsplitterz
• Moonclan / Spiderfang (i'd merge these two as well whilst we're at it)

So without adding any more new factions (apart from the 2 new Aelf ones) that's 21 different armies, and their socially maladjusted owners, to cater for. Assuming roughly 3 years or so between editions that's 7 battletomes a year to keep things just about ticking along and all those armies vaguely up to date, which seems pretty crazy/impossible really.

Obviously the answer is to not just collapse factions but obliterate them from the face of existence and just focus on new, designed for AOS models but seeing as that, reasonably enough, tends to go down like a sack of ****** with the owners of the binned armies they'll just keep slowly pulling this plaster off millimetre by millimetre.

 

[kenshin620]

I kind of agree, I think dumping too many factions in a soup would hurt the identity of an army.

Maybe its me but I never really liked WFB End Times "Oh Ogres and Orcs are BFFs now because......reasons"

Beasts of Chaos being together makes sense, they WERE already together back in the day! But I cannot see them going "oh yea Beastclaw Raiders? Nah they're just half of a Destruction soup book that also involves Greenskinz" (honestly I'd rather see Greenskinz become part of Ironjawz)

I actually do like the idea of an Order Free Cities thing...but on the other hand literally shoving EVERYONE that doesn't have a battletome into one book sounds a little extreme. I fear the internal balance of that would just go out the window. Just as a thought experiment I selected every Non Battletome faction in Order on the GW webstore (yes I know there are a few duplicates so give or take 5-10 entries) and I got 88 Results.

I cannot see a Battletome that contains 88 different units, not even including weapon options ,wizard specializations and lores, items, etc.

I suppose it would essentially be "just shove the Order GHB into a GA style book". Honestly I think I'd rather see Cross Allegiance units, like Gyrocopters being Dispossessed, KO, and Ironweld. Or Cannons being Ironweld, Dispossesed, and Free People.

 

And please fix Lion Rangers!!!

[HollowHills]

13 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

This may sound like an insane conspiracy.....but I think all Grots might combine into one book rather than a standalone Moonclan book.

1. Grots had a combined 2.0 preview (much like Beasts of Chaos who many people thought was some cruel joke)

2.  Many Grot units use very generic names rather than differentiated names. For example the grot boss on a spider is simply "Grot Big Boss on Gigantic Spider" rather than "Spiderfang Big Boss". They even used the same EXACT name for the Grot Shaman whether its Gitmob or Mooncaln (and I have yet to see any FAQ/Errata on the matter). So they technically have the same unit name and same bolded KEYWORD name.

3. Despite some people wanting an old school orcs n goblins book, I can't really see that happening currently with the lack of cross grot and orruk synergies (other than Snotlings). For crying out loud, the greenskin Orruk Warboss tends to be a very popular ally for Ironjawz and Bonesplitterz.

 

 

ON THE OTHER HAND Moonclan is singled out via the Malign Portent harbinger so who knows. Maybe there would be a combined book where you can dedicate your grots to either Grokamorka, the Spider God, or the Bad Moon, or maybe I'm reading too much into lazy classification and the really odd 2.0 previews back months ago!

Moonclan is going to be the first new grot army. It doubles down on the night goblin mushroom theme but also gives them a kind of fairy tale aspect. Units are getting renamed so shaman is Madcap shaman, fanatics are loonsmasha fanatics etc. 

The existing plastic kits will be supported by new ones a bit like the DoK release. 

[kenshin620]

1 hour ago, HollowHills said:

Moonclan is going to be the first new grot army. It doubles down on the night goblin mushroom theme but also gives them a kind of fairy tale aspect. Units are getting renamed so shaman is Madcap shaman, fanatics are loonsmasha fanatics etc.

Well yea I do agree Moonclan being its own thing is a likely possibility. I mentioned this on other topics but I honestly would not be bringing up the Grot conspiracy if it wasn't for BoC coming out of nowhere combined with the 2.0 previews.

Though to be fair while most Shadespire warbands involve special unique versions of generic units, the Briar Queen breaks that with the Briar Queen herself being a "Mirrorghast Banshee", a unit that currently doesn't exist despite Nighthaunt already being a complete AoS army.

[Lior'Lec]

3 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

I kind of agree, I think dumping too many factions in a soup would hurt the identity of an army.

Maybe its me but I never really liked WFB End Times "Oh Ogres and Orcs are BFFs now because......reasons"

Beasts of Chaos being together makes sense, they WERE already together back in the day! But I cannot see them going "oh yea Beastclaw Raiders? Nah they're just half of a Destruction soup book that also involves Greenskinz" (honestly I'd rather see Greenskinz become part of Ironjawz)

I actually do like the idea of an Order Free Cities thing...but on the other hand literally shoving EVERYONE that doesn't have a battletome into one book sounds a little extreme. I fear the internal balance of that would just go out the window. Just as a thought experiment I selected every Non Battletome faction in Order on the GW webstore (yes I know there are a few duplicates so give or take 5-10 entries) and I got 88 Results.

I cannot see a Battletome that contains 88 different units, not even including weapon options ,wizard specializations and lores, items, etc.

I suppose it would essentially be "just shove the Order GHB into a GA style book". Honestly I think I'd rather see Cross Allegiance units, like Gyrocopters being Dispossessed, KO, and Ironweld. Or Cannons being Ironweld, Dispossesed, and Free People.

 

And please fix Lion Rangers!!!

     Personally I’d love to see a Free Cities book with a wide variety of options. I think the best way to do it would be to have a city-builder system to design your subfaction/stormhost. No city would be able to have all order units and each design should end up with its own list of available units and flavor.

     Just brainstorming here but as an example of what I’m thinking: Every free city has access to half or so of the free guild and/or Ironweld to begin with. Then you select the realm your city is located in which unlocks another faction (or two smaller factions) which can be part of your army natively, one battle trait, and two command traits.

     Then you select a mentality or philosophy your city holds to which unlocks additional (slightly fewer) army/unit options, another two command traits, and one more battle trait. 

     Then you select a third flavor based option which rounds out your available units (again fewer units than previous selections), final two command traits, and a few additional alliegence ability options. 

     No battalions (?), all artifacts and spell lores come from the Malighn Sorcery realm lists, and centerpiece models for factions which can stand on their own are never unlocked into your army.

     So if you want a free cities army with wanders for example you could either have it located in the realm of life or have a specific philosophy either of which only unlocks certain units for your army. Want a free city with a strong Fyreslayers presence? Place it in the realm of fire or adhere to a mentality that matches their lore. The more heavily contested realms (Death for example) can add Stormcast as a part of their army while the more settled realms have to fend for themselves or ally them into the army.

[kenshin620]

1 hour ago, Lior'Lec said:

     Personally I’d love to see a Free Cities book with a wide variety of options. I think the best way to do it would be to have a city-builder system to design your subfaction/stormhost. No city would be able to have all order units and each design should end up with its own list of available units and flavor.

 

If this was WFB 5-6th edition or 40k 3rd-4th edition then maybe it could be possible to have a modular "build your city" thing. But the days of creating your own Imperial Guard Regiment or Space Marine Chapter seem long gone (mostly since it's a nightmare for matched play games). GW's current philosophy seems to be pick the one "Stormhost equivalent" that most aligns with your army.

 

Except for Imperial Knights with their Freeblades but Imperial Knights are a very...odd army to being with.

 

I guess an interesting compromise would be if they made a Order GA 2.0 book with Free Cities or a standalone 2.0 Firestorm Free City rules that were more expanded upon to make those rules more unique than just "GA Order with 1 extra rule".

[svnvaldez]

11 hours ago, JPjr said:

Honestly for the sake of the game I think they need to do this. Even after collapsing half the factions into soup armies you're still left with a vast number of armies, more than can reasonably be supported in any meaningful way within the lifetime of a game's edition, and especially so if the future is about introducing, and supporting, brand new factions who are unique to AoS (after all everyone is already desperate for KO to get an update).

Plus to give it more oomph, they could all be thematically linked to the rise of the new cities and could make for a fun narrative campaign too, SOUP WARS! (in fact you could easily work in the Beasts of Chaos too, they'd have a similar animus to the rise of cities as the Great Horde would, but maybe in this case it's more the Free Cities expanding into the wilds and encroaching on their space).

So I'd opt for the following as a way of throwing some love at these older units and models without having to produce entire new ranges...

The Free Cities / Combines - Ironweld Arsenal, Disposessed, Collegiate Arcane, Phoenix Temple, Order Serpentis, Eldritch Council, Devoted of Sigmar, Wanderers, Free People, Swifthawk Agents, Lion Rangers, Order Draconis, Darkling Covens, Scourge Privateers, Shadowblades.

Sigmar's Stormcast Eternals have struck back in each of the mortal realms, claiming vital realm gates. But if the lightning boys are off being literal stormtroopers, someone has to stay and defend theses newly bridgeheads. So around each captured gate has sprung up a city populated by those (and their descendants) who sought refuge in Azyr when Archaon's wrath first swept across the realms and the Aelves have been abandoned to their fate by Teclis, Tyrion and Maelrion who have shiny new Aelf toys to play with.

 The book would provide rules for several different cities in different realms, like Stormhosts, that each come with certain rules, abilities, colour schemes etc. Some  might have restrictions on what they can field, so they may be be more (trad) Aelf focused whilst others more magically inclined or more based around war machines and nascent technology or they might be port based cities to introduce a naval theme. This  would provide a way to make the disparate forces have a reason to be working together, unified liveries etc so they feel more like an army than just a ragtag bunch of old models thrown together, and would be easy to include rules to create your own city.

 And as I've said before an army that wasn't racially just one thing is actually quite unusual whilst making total sense within the lore, each of these small factions exist within the new cities and have roles to play, whether as scouts keeping an eye on the surrounding areas, defending the cities or keeping them running. And you could certainly imagine certain sub-factions, Darkling Covens etc whilst wanting to still be part of Sigmar's grand order (of Order), wanting to set up camp away from Azyr where they might have a bit more freedom to pursue their own interests.

Loads of models/units to pick and choose from, just give them some endless spells and maybe some new general type figures who could represent a senior figure form some of the main factions.

The Great Horde / Combines - Beastclaw Raiders, Greenskinz, Gitmob Grots, Maneaters, Troggoths, Firebellies, Gutbusters, Aleguzzler Gargants

 In the vast plains of Ghur a new power has arisen. Angered by the rise of new cities and the return of civilization to the realms a great Ogre Tyrant has appeared, stronger, larger and smarter than your average ogor he has carved out his own nomadic empire and declared himself Khan. Leading his army on a rampage of destruction he has attracted to his cause all the disparate (read neglected) forces of disorder under one tattered banner.

A thematic counterpoint to the Free Cities, The Great Horde sweeps across the realms like a plague of angry club wielding locusts, destroying, looting and pillaging everything in sight. Civilisation brought chaos and ruin to the realms and now the Great Tyrant Khan will offer them all up to his god the Great Maw as a sacrifice, whether the people of the Free Cities like it or not.

This would give a point to all these factions existing, yes they're brutes deadset on wrecking your ****** but they're not mindless any more. They're on a holy jihad to cleanse the realms of civilization, for its own good and return everything to its primal, natural state. Well at least the chiefs are, the rest just know there's a good fight going on. and want in on it.

Loads of models/units to pick and choose from, just give them some endless spells, a new model for the Tyrant king.

The Children of the Horned Rat / Combines - Masterclan, Clan Skyre, Clan Verminus, Clan Moulder, Clan Pestilens, Clan Eshin

 Well this is just obvious really, but lets say The Horned Rat having elevated himself to the Pantheon of the Chaos is hungry for more power and a new Verminlord has arisen to, just about, unify the backstabbing little rat men.

Once again it can be linked back to the rise of the Free Cities. As these new metropolises grow and expand, well all that aelf, human and duardin effluent needs to go somewhere and when they're not building machines of war the engineers of the Ironweld are busy building giant sewer systems under the new cities. Sewer systems that are home to thousands of rats and their larger kin.

As Crowley taught us 'As above, so below' and beneath each of the gleaming new cities of Hammerhal, Glymsforge etc grows a vile, twisted reflection, a mockery of all that Sigmar holds dear and threatens to destroy the new shoots of order by gnawing at their roots.

Obviously they need some new plastic models, but not a huge amount as there's still lots to choose from, but throw in some endless spells, a new large character and some kind of thematic scenery piece like the Herdstone, maybe a Black Pillar of Commandment.

The Ruinstorm / Combines - Everchosen, Slaves to Darkness, Darkoath, Daemons of Chaos, Monsters of Chaos

 For over half a millennium the forces of chaos led by the Everchosen have held the Mortal Realms in their mailed fist. The people, and indeed creature and land itself, that found themselves under the boot of Archaon and his dire lieutenants have been twisted out of all recognition. But now for the first time they find themselves on the back foot as the forces of order strike back across the realms.

Order may still only have the tiniest of toeholds but that's still an affront to the Dark Gods and their herald who has rallied the warriors of chaos, the barbarian tribes and the creatures of the realms that have been mutated beyond recognition and once more leads them against the tiny flickering flames of hope that are the Free Cities.

Just add Darkoath as an interesting new faction to represent the tribes that were left behind when the gates of Azyr were barred and you have a big old army to pick and choose from.

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Best thing about is is people can pick and choose, want their Free City to be mainly Duardin? Well you do you my friend, welcome to Nu-Karak but now you can thematically add in a few wizards or whatnot and have it make sense.

You still have hundreds of Gitmob models? well yours is just one wing of the Great Horde but now you can add in a select few models and get some new abilities to buff you up.

I mean combine all those into 4 big tomes and that still leaves an absolute unholy amount of armies to pick and choose from, but it makes it slightly more manageable, throws a bone to older collectors and a lifeline to older models (I know I'd be tempted to create my own 'Free City') and means they can concentrate on padding out, updating or in the case of Dark/Light Aelves, releasing all the other ranges that are new (or newish) to AoS.

Anyway is it really obvious that I have loads of work that I need to do this morning and am desperately looking for things to do that aren't that...

 

@Ben please forward to BJ.... cough cough

[Kirjava13]

Guys, please, for the sake of my scrolling finger, if we're going to quote an obscenely long post, can we just edit it down to the bit we're interested in or run with the *snip* thing?

[Arkanaut Admiral]

I'm really happy with how quick this thread took off.  Great discussion guys! 

It does sadly show the issues you can run into trying to reconcile the older Fantasy range with the new setting.  Can I be controversial?  Sometimes, actually a lot of the time, I wish that certain older factions were left out.  Those ones that don't quite 'fit in' with the new setting.  I won't say which ones those are though. 

Going through the Grand Alliances, here's what I'd do:

Order: 

Give Darkling Covens and Wanderers their own Battletomes.  Their entries in the GHB show that they've got stand alone army potential.

Take all 8 of the other Aelf factions and merge them into a single Battletome.  Individually, I don't any of them could make it as a stand alone army.  However.,,when put together...they just might.  As I imagine this book, it comes across as a sort of fantasy version of the Imperial Guard Codex.  Lots of very different looking models that can all come together under joint rules.

Take the Free Peoples, Devoted Of Sigmar, Ironweld Arsenal and Collegiate  Arcane and put them all under one book. 

Give Dispossessed a Battletome.  Again, because the GHB shows that they have stand alone potential.

With these, the two yet to be released Aelf factions and the others (Stormcast, Seraphon, Deepkin etc.) that leaves 14 factions of Order, all with their own distinctive character.  2 human factions (Stormcast and Free Peoples), 8 Aelf factions (Sylvaneth, Idoneth, DoK, Wanderers, Darklings, Light Aelfs, Dark Aelfs, the Combined 8.) 3 Duardin factions (Fyreslayers, Kharadron and Dispossessed) and Seraphon.  That's OK isn't it?

Chaos:

Like others have said, make a "Children Of The Horned Rat" book with all of the Skaven factions together.  This is obvious really.

The Ruinstorm.  Again, obvious. 

So that would be 7 factions of Chaos (Blades Of Khorne, Disciples Of Tzeentch, Maggotkin Of Nurgle, Hosts Of Slannesh, Children Of The Horned Rat, Beasts Of Chaos and The Ruinstorm.  That's not bad, but it definately leaves room for more (Chaos Duardin anyone?)

Destruction:

Take Greenskins, Gitmobs and Troggoths and put them together into one book.

Take Gutbusters, Maneaters, Firebellies and Aleguzzlers and put them together into one book.

Make a Moonclan book and a Spiderfang book and a Grotbag Scuttlers book.

So with these, the Beastclaw Riders book, Bonesplitterz and the Ironjawz books, that is 8 unique Destruction factions.  Not bad in my opinion...

Death:

With LoN, Nighthaunt and FECs, Death is actually starting to look OK.  Although personally, I would hope that eventually the different Death Factions get spread out more (kind of the opposite of the others Alliances).

 

[Orsino]

If we accept that "Light Aelves" and "Shadow Aelves" are coming wouldn't it make sense to include the former High Aelves in the Light Aelves faction and the former Dark Aelves in the Shadow Aelves faction? You give the wanderers their own battletome and group the little human and dwarf factions under "Free Cities" and that takes of every faction in four battletomes, two of which are apparently already planned.

[kenshin620]

48 minutes ago, Orsino said:

If we accept that "Light Aelves" and "Shadow Aelves" are coming wouldn't it make sense to include the former High Aelves in the Light Aelves faction and the former Dark Aelves in the Shadow Aelves faction?

Aren't DoK though the shadow aelf faction (aelves living in the shadow realm)? Or are we talking about Mistweaver who is still a free agent (and many thought was suppose to be a Deepkin model).

 

[Yoshiya]

10 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

Aren't DoK though the shadow aelf faction (aelves living in the shadow realm)? Or are we talking about Mistweaver who is still a free agent (and many thought was suppose to be a Deepkin model).

 

Malereon has his own set of aelves that are the true master of Ulgu. They are hinted at being draconic in some manner in what little lore we've had so far.

[Ravinsild]

The main ingredient in a good soup is the broth... 

i myself prefer Udon soup with a fish stock based broth. 

You don’t mean that kind of soup do you

[Future]

grots and skaven tia