AoS 2 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion

[Lucentia]

Battalion is an amusing miss, doubly so when Aura of Agony fires off at the beginning of the hero phase before you could potentially heal wounds with the battalion ability (Not that the aura is exactly the best damage under ideal circumstances.)

The new temple will probably at least be fun to scoot some snakes around with, if you can tag  some inspiring terrain with your blood sister block nothing will be safe!  Buuut blood sisters are already pretty much murder machines anyway, so more killing power is not really what they want for the most part.

That said it's just tiny snippets so far, and I suspect even with this DoK heavy broken realms release we will still see a new DoK battletome coming down the pipe in fairly short order, doesn't look like BR: Morathi contains warscrolls for either the Ironscale or Shadestalkers, and to my memory none of the dual army box plastic heroes have been released without a book of some sort following shortly thereafter.

[Graywater]

12 minutes ago, Majordomo said:

As someone who just started with the faction - the preview did seem kinda lacklustre, but hopefully there is more to come...

I have I've glued 40 out of 60 aelves now - 30 sisters and 10 witches - but I figured I'd ask here before I commit further. Would it be beneficial to go 30 of each and go say bucklers for sisters and daggers for the witches? Or should I go 40/20 so that I could field Slaughter Troupe potentially? Just want to go with the option that I'm least likely to regret for the immediate future - seems like everything is used to some extent, but I've not been able to find many recent DoK  lists.  I'll probably end up with more elves later but first I will hold out hope that I can go buy a bunch more snakes instead because they are a lot cooler heh.

Pretty hard to give you a solid suggestion considering we are currently halfway through a rules reveal. Also, we may see a battletome in the near future, which could completely shake everything up. My suggestion is paint what you have while we see how all of this settles.

[Chumphammer]

14 minutes ago, Majordomo said:

As someone who just started with the faction - the preview did seem kinda lacklustre, but hopefully there is more to come...

I have I've glued 40 out of 60 aelves now - 30 sisters and 10 witches - but I figured I'd ask here before I commit further. Would it be beneficial to go 30 of each and go say bucklers for sisters and daggers for the witches? Or should I go 40/20 so that I could field Slaughter Troupe potentially? Just want to go with the option that I'm least likely to regret for the immediate future - seems like everything is used to some extent, but I've not been able to find many recent DoK  lists.  I'll probably end up with more elves later but first I will hold out hope that I can go buy a bunch more snakes instead because they are a lot cooler heh.

Bucklers tend to be better for SOS 

I prefer bucklers on the WE as well but   a mix is good.

Depending on your area, you could have half a unit with one and half with the other, and just have the type you are using at the front and remove the other as they die. As long as you confirm with your opponent what you have then shout be fine 

[jhamslam]

3 hours ago, Chumphammer said:

In the current shooting Meta, those options are not great

+1 attack on snakes is fantastic, and +1 Bra is good to give those snakes BR10 with a Cauldron 

Taking the battalion and using the 2nd Medusa to cast shroud of dispair will result in bonus wounds vs anyone (unless neg modifiers)

HOWEVER

VS -1 to hit/teleport or a 5+ FNP bubble....Im sorry its not gonna cut it.

Current Meta is shooting, and +1 attack +1 Bra is not going to help that. Same with the Battalion, if you could heal a cauldron also then sure thats great, but sadly I just dont thing it helps us atm. Hopefully new hero or morathi update adds some options

Hoping on new traits/ Morathi for the shooting thing.

The mortal wounds on shooting attacks is just bad and annoying design on AoS's prt.  The current shooting in AoS is actually matching the power level of 40k (as stupid as that is), if not more powerful. The Look Out Sir! means jack all considering everyones fishing for 5s or 6s. And the double turn in particular makes shooting non interacting and game ending.

They need to really reign the Mortal wounds to be on unmod wound rolls.

[Fyrm]

I'll echo the disappointment in the Ability. +1 Bravery is just sad. +1 attack to a unit of Blood Sisters is nice though, especially as it triggers when you pick them to attack instead of when the phase starts, so you don't have to telegraph it. Or commit to a unit and have it be blown up before you can attack with them. They indicated there was also a command trait not yet shown, so we'll have to see that before we pass a final judgement.

 

But I have to say, one of the biggest reasons I go with Khailebron is I can fit all my battleline into the Templenest. Now, one of the two not shown battalions may be good [the one shown is also a bit of a dud, at least for me]. It's nice to not have a unit I have to remember doesn't do the cool thingy. Both seem to refer to our snek girls, although Scathcoven seems like it'd be more balanced between them and the harpies. Maybe even harpy focused. Not bad, but we have to see how it goes.

[Graywater]

Ironscale rules preview. Not super enthused by her. 1 mortal wound at the end of the combat phase is pretty negligible, and i dont like her +1 attack ability because it requires her to activate before your actual damage dealing unit, meaning your opponent has a chance to whittle down your snakes before they get to go. Is that worth the extra attack?

They also wield a keldrisaíth – an ornate staff that can be thrown as well as used in close quarters, making them a threat in melee and at range. What’s more, their savage displays in combat can drive nearby Melusai into a frenzy, represented in your games by the Gory Offering ability.

 

Still holding out hope that she gets a command ability or a useful warscroll spell.

Edited November 4, 2020 by Graywater

[Mutton]

With how squishy the snakes are, I don't see how this ability is any use. You activate the Ironscale first, maybe she kills something, but then your big snake unit gets attacked before they can do anything, and likely, most of them die. And it's until the end of the phase, so it's not even like you can try to set some strategic maneuvering up for a future turn.

Unless Morathi gets the Melusai keyword, what's the point?

[Overread]

Don't forget this leader is likely designed to work in an army with majority snakes. With a 12 inch reach its likely assuming she's in the thick of several snake groups within range.

Army A - 2 units of snakes

Snake A attacks first

Enemy retaliates against Snake B

Snake B attacks at reduced numbers. 

 

Army B - 2 units of snakes and leader

Leader attacks first - gains bonus

Enemy retaliates against Snake A

Snake B attacks at boosted strength

Enemy retaliates against Snake B

Snake A retaliates at reduced numbers but increased attacks

 

It's not ideal, but I can seen a boon to having her provided that your snakes are engaged to different enemy units and that your army has at least two or more units of snakes in operation within a 12 inch bubble around her

[Izotzuhure]

Could it be that the new temple has a CA that allows you to activate two units, one after the other, Lumineth style? It would be better if the ability worked on her shooting attack, affecting melusai units when they pile in or something like that. 

[Lucentia]

Just a guess, but I suspect that 'Turn to Crystal' rule will be how the Blood Sister's crystal touch ability will work assuming there's a new battletome under production (Though presumably on a 4+ and per model instead).  Pure speculation of course, but that seems like a possibility to me, it would put their ability more in line with other mortal wound rules in the game, though it would be a considerable nerf on the face of it.

[Fyrm]

I feel like I'd like to have one of her chilling by some archers. Presuming her staff throw is any good. Doubling their shooting output could make them at least a little viable! I do agree her ability is too slow to help with melee though.

 

We do know there's more to her though. They haven't shown her antimagic that they mentioned. I don't think she'll be a wizard though. Probably have a decent command ability, but not a wizard.

[JackStreicher]

1 hour ago, Izotzuhure said:

It would be better if the ability worked on her shooting attack, affecting melusai units when they pile in or something like that. 

Or to work when she kills something no matter in what phase in order to buff Blood Stalkers. Idk why GW appears to hate Blood Stalkers 🤣

@Fyrm sadly she has to kill sth in the combat phase 

Edited November 4, 2020 by JackStreicher

[Graywater]

31 minutes ago, Fyrm said:

I feel like I'd like to have one of her chilling by some archers. Presuming her staff throw is any good. Doubling their shooting output could make them at least a little viable! I do agree her ability is too slow to help with melee.

 

This won't work because the +1 attack only works if she slays a model in the combat phase.

44 minutes ago, Lucentia said:

Just a guess, but I suspect that 'Turn to Crystal' rule will be how the Blood Sister's crystal touch ability will work assuming there's a new battletome under production (Though presumably on a 4+ and per model instead).  Pure speculation of course, but that seems like a possibility to me, it would put their ability more in line with other mortal wound rules in the game, though it would be a considerable nerf on the face of it.

I hope not. Their access to mortals is one of their best features over the elves in our book. If they take away the mortals as an attack characteristic, it makes snakes even worse comparative to the elves, which they were already struggling against in their current state. 

1 hour ago, Izotzuhure said:

Could it be that the new temple has a CA that allows you to activate two units, one after the other, Lumineth style? It would be better if the ability worked on her shooting attack, affecting melusai units when they pile in or something like that. 

The new temple's command ability is the +1 attack to melusai units wholly within 12 inches. I doubt they will give us a second one, and the allegiance ability is +1 bravery. Again, I doubt they'll give us a second one.

1 hour ago, Overread said:

Don't forget this leader is likely designed to work in an army with majority snakes. With a 12 inch reach its likely assuming she's in the thick of several snake groups within range.

There's a catch though. You want big units to be able to benefit from the command ability, prayers, and witchbrew, but you'll rarely get more than 1 big unit within range of her. But if you go small units, her +1 attack isn't going to do much because your opponent can whittle your units down before they attack back. Id rather have a unit of 20 all attack without the bonus, but with full strength, than allow a unit to take out several snakes by activating the ironscale first to get the extra attack. And if you're using it to buff a unit of, say 10, and your opponent kills 4 because you activated the ironscale first, you are at a net loss of attacks.

[Fyrm]

4 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

Or to work when she kills something no matter in what phase in order to buff Blood Stalkers. Idk why GW appears to hate Blood Stalkers 🤣

@Fyrm sadly she has to kill sth in the combat phase 

!!!

Ya, missed that. Ugh, why all the archer hate!?!? I just want to have a snek firing line. :[

[DJMoose]

I am rather disappointed by the Turned to Crystal ability. 3+to cause a mortal wound is okay...but D3 would be much better due to her being a character. Or why not just give her the crystal touch melee weapon abilty like Blood Sisters, but it hits on a 3+ instead?

There is some combo potential with the Ironscale and the Zainthar Kai temple. +1 attack for a CP and a potential +1 attack if you can pull off some wounds with the Ironscale. However I agree with what was said earlier; it's unfortunately not worth it to have your Ironscale go first instead of your big snake unit.

We still do not have the whole picture yet. Hopefully there is something that will let us activate a unit immediately after the Ironscale or let us activate a unit twice.

With the right combo, +1 attack could be very strong due to our already powerful prayers and buffs. But seems like a lot of work and chance for a gimmick.

I'm still going to get the Morathi book but still seems pretty underwhelming thus far. Maybe they had to keep these abilties and things lackluster because of the power of our prayers and buffs?

Edited November 5, 2020 by DJMoose

[Marcvs]

8 hours ago, DJMoose said:

There is some combo potential with the Ironscale and the Zainthar Kai temple. +1 attack for a CP and a potential +1 attack if you can pull off some wounds with the Ironscale. However I agree with what was said earlier; it's unfortunately not worth it to have your Ironscale go first instead of your big snake unit.

We still do not have the whole picture yet. Hopefully there is something that will let us activate a unit immediately after the Ironscale or let us activate a unit twice.

With the right combo, +1 attack could be very strong due to our already powerful prayers and buffs. But seems like a lot of work and chance for a gimmick.

As a player eyeing DoK for a new army, the problem with the Ironscale comes not so much from the difficulty of activating the buff, but from the need to have it still alive in (at least) t2 (since she has to get in combat) in an age of kroak, sentinels and general shooting. Considering she might also have to be your general (to unlock the snakes as battleline) that would make her even more of a target and it doesn't seem like she has anything to improve her surivability

[Lucentia]

My suspicion, as I've said before, is that there's probably a new battletome under production so even apart from only having snippets of rules previews so far it seems quite possible to me that we wont have a full picture of things from the Morathi book alone.

[Lucentia]

Just now, Marcvs said:

As a player eyeing DoK for a new army, the problem with the Ironscale comes not so much from the difficulty of activating the buff, but from the need to have it still alive in (at least) t2 (since she has to get in combat) in an age of kroak, sentinels and general shooting. Considering she might also have to be your general (to unlock the snakes as battleline) that would make her even more of a target and it doesn't seem like she has anything to improve her surivability

They have said that she has some sort of magic defence I  prior previews, whether that's anything actually substantial remains to be seen.

[DJMoose]

So I noticed something today. On the token sheet for the Shadow and Pain box there is a token called "Wrath of the Scathborn," which is clearly the Ironscale command ability. Who knows what it does but it sounds encouraging!

Edited November 5, 2020 by DJMoose

[JackStreicher]

Don‘t those boxes usually include a mini game? (Like Looncurse did?) those markets might be for that.

[ColsBols]

my uncle jimbo who works at gw says the new allegiance is 

+1 bravery

give another hero an artifact

command ability +1 attack to khinerai or melusai unit within 12

artefact does d3 mw at the end of the combat phase to each enemy unit within 3" if you roll a 5+

 

he also says both versions of Morathi are on the table at the same time, you cant kill the smaller morathi until you kill the bigger morathi because she is carrying the heart of khaine. 8 attacks on heartrender now

melusai are much better now, can buff them up to have 6 glaive attacks and 4 crystal touches per model

[Chumphammer]

Update!

[pixieproxy]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/11/05/broken-realms-morathi-unleashed/?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Twitter&utm_campaign=AoSMorathi5Nov2020&utm_content=AoSMorathi5Nov2020

Morathi rules preview! If she still has the Iron Heart of Khaine this is so cool.

I also like how she encourages playing the Scathborn

Edited November 5, 2020 by pixieproxy

[Izotzuhure]

Does she keep the Heart rule, though? I imagine so, cause that would be bigger than having both models at the same time. 

[Chumphammer]

We dont know but maybe, she is Morathi-Khaine now

"Morathi’s soul simultaneously resides in both her incarnation as Morathi-Khaine – formerly the High Oracle – and also her monstrously mirrored Shadow Queen form"