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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

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10 hours ago, Scar said:

Interesting...

Can you tell me in witch FAQ you have read this?

I think it's in Warhammer Age of Sigmar: Core Rules (Updated 16/12/2019).

Q: Some abilities allow you to remove a unit from the battlefield and set it up again, and say that this ‘counts as their move for the movement phase’ (or words to that effect). Do these units count as having made a move for the purposes of any other rules or abilities?

A: No, it simply restricts them from making a move later on.

 

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FAQ’s up. Designer’s commentary only, no errata. Mainly clears up garrisoning queries. Also Fly High confirmed as not a retreat. 

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Im happy with this. I didnt expected our marines to be able to shoot even after the vessel made a run move. This makes Barak-Zilfin even stronger in my opinion. 

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I still can’t get the Admiral into a list. He just feels like a waste of points to me, the Iron Sky Command is hero-heavy as it is without the optional ones. 

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1 hour ago, 5kaven5lave said:

I still can’t get the Admiral into a list. He just feels like a waste of points to me, the Iron Sky Command is hero-heavy as it is without the optional ones. 

Have you considered it gives you narrative permission to wear a funny hat and declare yourself the "Capt'n"?

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13 minutes ago, PensivePanther said:

Have you considered it gives you narrative permission to wear a funny hat and declare yourself the "Capt'n"?

😅 Funny you should say that as this is precisely what I do!! I do also enjoy giving the Navigator or an Endrinmaster the reins as well out of respect for their achievements in the fluff of my Barak.

EDIT: I have stopped short of buying a hat but maybe I should get one...

Edited by 5kaven5lave
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Looking around at maybe running KO as my second army, and just wondering if anyone uses Gyrocopters as allies? they seem pretty good and could help clear through hordes  if you took 3 or 2x3

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7 minutes ago, Chumphammer said:

Looking around at maybe running KO as my second army, and just wondering if anyone uses Gyrocopters as allies? they seem pretty good and could help clear through hordes  if you took 3 or 2x3

Ya buddy, we have been singing their praises in the last week or so. Amazing horde clearing potential, VERY cheap. even just taking 1 is amazing because of how many builds leave us with 70-80 points which cant really buy a whole lot. Their fast enough to keep up with fly high, and cheap enough to be used as a nice screen. 

Gyrocopters and Gunhaulers are killing it for me with this new tome. 

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So bad the errata forbidding us to deploy units inside the boats counting as 1 drop... So our list will be more of 6 drops.

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Kinda disappointing theirs no errata. Though it was expected. I've been enjoying the new tome, and ive squeaked out a few wins, but i dont think we have enough threat outside of hero sniping to really compete with the top tier armies. Our combat is straight up garbage. Saws are great, but they will last you 1 round before your scooping baloons. Our magic.......well, i've made my feelings clear with how GW keeps handling Duardin with no magic, point is, it gimps the ever loving ****** out of the army. And our ranged is good, not great, good. It only functions as well as it does because of our mobility, which is unrivaled. If we couldnt drop down 9" out of enemies we would be well and truly boned. And even dropping that close means your likely getting charged if you dont get a double turn. And once you get charged, your options are A) Hope to have taken few enough wounds to fly high. or B) see if you can squeak a few wounds in before your ships turned to scrap metal. 

I think we need PT reductions almost across the board just to open up more options for how we play, or what we can run. Baloons and ArkCo are probably the only 2 units worth their cost.  All the ships could be reduced a bit IMO, it wont open up enough room to spam more, just enough to add another ground unit or hero. 

The capacity limit on ships excluding Heroes is also just......terrible. There are no interactions in the book that would make this some busted combo. It was unnecessary.  Khemist buff not hitting a garrisoned unit is also pretty trash. RR1 to wound is so minor, and thats like the best buff in our book.....

The KO play experience has been very fun for me so far, but i think ive put them on the table enough at this point to see the flaws and i just dont see how we compete with the top tier armies on the table. I have FS/DoK/Skaven so i have tasted TRUE POWAH, and this army, while amazingly fun, beautifully scultped, and full of Duardin, it does not have the power those other armies have. We need a 2x shooting phase buff to compete with the nonsense that is combat with activation wars nowadays lol. 

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 Yeah,the army is still just for funzies…

 That being the case and now we know nothing will really change.I think ill be building a force with a ground contingent led by Gotrek and a 20 block of Arkanauts then throw in a Frigate and some gunboats and Thunderers along with the balloon boss and see what I can do with that.

 

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1 hour ago, Ser_namron said:

 We need a 2x shooting phase buff to compete with the nonsense that is combat with activation wars nowadays lol. 

Our activation wars is „I shoot all my guns where I want“ where their retaliation is „You have your turn, but I can calculate your threat range including doubleturn“. 

There were literally games where I knew the other player wouldnt get into combat with anything I cant withstand while losing everything vital for his victory if I didnt go for 100% wiffs. 

Is it top tier? I don‘t know, but being able to win games by pure tactical decision making feels really rewarding and strong to me. 

They could have gone for all the amazing „+1 attack, +1 to wound, +1 rend/damage“ stuff other armies have but then there coudnt have been fly high AND our points costs needed to be even higher than now, which would lead to us dying to a single alphastrike/doubleturn again. 

I prefer top tier–mobility with mediocre but reliable output and reasonable defense (for their points anyway).

 

Edit: I see it that way. I once read an article about the „holy trinity of army stats“ or sth like that. 

It was „Damage, Mobility, Defense“ and lets face it. Our mobility is definately outstanding, our defense is pretty high too compared to the majority of AoS armies (there are many ways to give the enemy –1 and everything inside a boat is at least 3+ Save while our boats being 3+/4+ too. And potential rerolls! 

Even our probably weakest part „Damage“ is still sufficient as our supreme mobility makes sure that we will never lose a significant shot due to keytargets being out of range. 

An Ironclad with 10+ Thunderers (depending on Endrinwork) accompanied by Riggers and 1–2 Gunhaulers can deal so much damage to a part of the enemy lines that there is no retaliation left except for very fast units* and doubleturn. From there you can rinse and repeat.

*those units often lack either damage, defense or both as well, depending on points. (Sure, Seekers will always reach our Ironclad but they wont to ****** against it) 

Hope my point gets clear.

 

Edited by Phasteon
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plus, on top of that consider this set of facts:

1. They are dwarves. When all's said and done they're dwarves, making them the best army

2. They have balloons. Dwarves+Balloons=Amazing

3. They have boats with ballons. I want my cool naval battles, but there is not water? Why, give it a balloon!

4. Finally, they not only have top hats, BUT THEY HAVE STEAMPUNK TOPHATS.

I am just saying, tactics or whatever the heck you want included, there was a dice roll to see who would get which side. (PS, winner takes KO and I won). They are simply the most amazing factions. Also I have the naivety of never playing a game with them so WHATEVER.

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1 hour ago, Phasteon said:

Our activation wars is „I shoot all my guns where I want“ where their retaliation is „You have your turn, but I can calculate your threat range including doubleturn“. 

I meant the double shooting phase as more of a joke, thatd be bonkers broken lol. But as bonkers broken as that would be, it describes current combat against a  good chunk of armies, where you have these insane mechanics. 

to shoot all your guns where you want is great, but the range on a large chunk of KO weapons mean your either getting 12" away to truly get all your shooting, setting yourself up to get charged. Or you stay back, outside of threat range and fire a small chunk of your weapons. Thunderers with rifles are 18" away, i could name more armies that could easily make that distance than i could armies that couldnt. Special weapons range from 9-24" but the 24" shots are 1 or 2 shots leaving the rest of the units profile still out of range. Can we drop somewhere and fire everything into a front unit? Sure. But if someone screens even a little bit, your losing a ton of attacks, or your throwing them all into a screen, setting yourself up to get charged. 

tactics are for suuuuure a big part of this army, but making mistakes is going to lose you alot of ground QUICK with them as well. And like anything its a spectrum, some battle plans are going to be better for us, or some matchups might be great for us, i havent played enough to say as much. But i can speak to the problems that keep popping up in my experience with the army so far, and putting it against the experience of fighting other armies. 
 

 

1 hour ago, Phasteon said:

I prefer top tier–mobility with mediocre but reliable output and reasonable defense (for their points anyway).

I think this is a really good summary of the army. Id prefer a bit more, im a greedy ******, but i see the merit of the army. And it is sooooooo much better than the last book. 

 

1 hour ago, Phasteon said:

An Ironclad with 10+ Thunderers (depending on Endrinwork) accompanied by Riggers and 1–2 Gunhaulers can deal so much damage to a part of the enemy lines that there is no retaliation left except for very fast units* and doubleturn. From there you can rinse and repeat.

Idk about the no retaliation part, there are some fast flipping armies out there that can do insane damage lol.  

And "there are many ways to give the enemy –1 and everything inside a boat is at least 3+ Save while our boats being 3+/4+ too. And potential rerolls! "

-1 to models within 3". So pretty hard to get more than a couple models unless your stacking multiples in a unit, gimping your ranged dmg. And if your in a ship your not winning points, which is honestly a problem with how few models we have on the ground.  I think its solid, but its not overly impressive. 

 

1 hour ago, Phasteon said:

Hope my point gets clear.

I think you have some good points, and i think you look through a more positive lens than i do lol. And while i think it has some serious issues and isnt as powerful as we'd all like to hope, Its a good, fun army. And hopefully we can agree on that. 

 

1 hour ago, Sttufe said:

plus, on top of that consider this set of facts:

1. They are dwarves. When all's said and done they're dwarves, making them the best army

You had me at Dwarves ❤️

Edited by Ser_namron
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10 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:

I still can’t get the Admiral into a list. He just feels like a waste of points to me, the Iron Sky Command is hero-heavy as it is without the optional ones. 

Have you tried to add him to an iron sky command with arkos to try and make a melee threat? Up close and personal with an ironclad. 

 

Zilfin

iron sky command

 

admiral- proclamator mask

endrinmaster- great tinkerer, staff

endrinmaster

endrinmaster (or navigator if you want to load into a gunhauler instead of ironclad)

ironclad- skyhook, buoyancy 

Frigate- cannon, Omniscope

 

arkos x 20

arkos x 10

 

gunhauler- compartments or torpedo

gunhauler 

endrinriggers x 3 drill cannon

 

the two gunhaulers can fill out to be two units of 6 riggers but then you have an extra endrinwork you’re not using which bothers me. 

 

Ironclad should be putting out great volume of fire within 9. Getting lots of guaranteed healing, can doubletap repel boarders to make arkos hit on 2’s.. 3 endrinmaster and an admiral ashould be able to smoke something decent. Can get past modifiers to hit which is the survivabilitiy mechanic that’s in vogue.  

Could even have frigate and hauler come scoop up survivors out of your ironclad, we were dwarves style  

I guess this will be my boots on the ground list 🤠🤠 thanks for the inspiration!

Edited by Cauthon
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Looking for a bit of advice on how to build Arkanauts and Thunderers.

 

I have 10 Arkanauts 2 units of 5 Thunderers on sprue, how am i best equipping them all?

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17 minutes ago, Bueno said:

Looking for a bit of advice on how to build Arkanauts and Thunderers.

 

I have 10 Arkanauts 2 units of 5 Thunderers on sprue, how am i best equipping them all?

Can’t go wrong with all rifles if you’re in a frigate. Aether cannons are good if you don’t mind giving up the max range on two rifles but the frigate itself has carbines that are 12” as well. 

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17 minutes ago, Bueno said:

Looking for a bit of advice on how to build Arkanauts and Thunderers.

 

I have 10 Arkanauts 2 units of 5 Thunderers on sprue, how am i best equipping them all?

Can’t go wrong with all rifles if you’re in a frigate. Aether cannons are good if you don’t mind giving up the max range on two rifles but the frigate itself has carbines that are 12” as well. 

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I only fully realized last night that you can take endrinmasters with dirigible suits in the iron sky command. 

 

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1 hour ago, Bueno said:

Looking for a bit of advice on how to build Arkanauts and Thunderers.

 

I have 10 Arkanauts 2 units of 5 Thunderers on sprue, how am i best equipping them all?

I think you could probably stand to give your Arkanauts their full loadout. I think the special weapons generally outshine the pistols shots. The only special weapon you could consider swapping out is the skypike but I kind of like keeping one in for a little bit more melee bite. Good luck.

People seem pretty split on thunderers. Personally, I dont think the special weapon loadout is that much more worse than a full squad of riflemen. So Im going to build mine out with the full loadout for flexibility. But Im also not looking to be optimized.

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As far as loondrinmasters in a iron sky command, I can almost get to a 1 drop list, I guess you could if you bought a command point. 

 

Ironsky command

Loondrinmaster 

loondrinmaster

loondrinmaster

admiral

ironclad

arkos x 10

endrinrigfers x 6

endrinriggers x 3 

gunhauler 

 

Alternativley you could have two unit of 6 riggers and swap the gunhauler for a gyrocopter but then you lose a Hitcher vehicle  

 

loondrinmaster general can fly high on his own, two rides for two other loondrinmaster, small unit of riggers to screen for the ironclad, 6 riggers with gunhauler off doing stuff  

 

probably not competitive 

j guess the admiral is worthless in this list  he probably gets dropped for a gunhauler so now you’re up to 3 drops so I guess it’s a no go  

 

Edited by Cauthon

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My issue with Iron Sky Command and Balloon hero is that with the two other compulsory cheap heroes you’re paying over 1000 points for the three heroes, one boat and the battalion. Doesn’t leave much for stuff to contest objectives with (I do think it’s a good battalion by the way, just that the extra 120 points over the foot version who could sit in the Ironclad nicely could get you a battleline unit instead). 

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