Ser_namron

Heyo, just looking for clarification on BoC rule. The ghavespawn ability gift of morghur, Can the spawn be put right into combat with a unit or are there any core rules that prevent that? Seems pretty straightforward that it just says within 6" so I'm just double checking theirs no core rule or something preventing that, but it's also the only ability that seems to be this lenient in the game so I'm double checking.

The new book has really neutered our battleshock immunity.. Warpseer vermindlord now just has a 13" aura that gives 10 bravery, and we have the Endless spell bell. Plague furnace still gives the battleshock immunity too actually ** When i saw the bell have its aura removed i figured they would make up for it somewhere with an easier rally ability or something to get rats back.

Can I get some clarification on one of nighthaunts artifacts. Reaper of sorrows artifact- my opponent was trying to say the way it is written means that as long as the unit is terrified it gets the -4 rend, without rolling the bravery check. He bases this off the last sentence "that character rend is -4 instead of -3 if the target is terrified. . I disagree completely. The last sentence states -4 INSTEAD of -3, which means you need to have made the bravery check in the first place to get the -3 which will then become -4 if the target is terrified. Is anyone else interpreting as constant -4 rend without a roll? That being said we both agreed to not use it like that and had a good game. And it's not like AoS doesn't have terrible rules writing that can be left to interpretation. But I don't even think that's the case here, the rule makes sense to me, but I would love some clarification to put this to bed. Also I was playing rats so they had -4 the whole time regardless lol.

Blood sisters Mortal wound ability is a big one for me too, its so bad now. Blood sisters definitely also need +1 to AS. Ironscale is also pretty turdish outside the CA, never have i ever wanted to activate the ironscale 1x first so i can get my blood sisters another attack, because they will die if i dont attack first like 90% of the time. Spells casting value reduced would be great. I know mindrazor is great, but casting on 8 sucks, so many armies out there with spells casting on 5s and 6s. At the very least easier access to +2 casting on some models. Changes to hagsbrew would be nice, auto battleshock immunity and then you'd roll for wound rerolls like it currently has it. Im glad they changed shields to give the +1 to ranged attacks as well, but i would have loved to see it change the AS characteristic all together instead. Doomfire warlocks being useful - Unlikely since we've seen the scrolls but maybe theyll get some unique enhancement. Anything to buff witch aelves, i have so many gathering dust now lol. ( on a side note i tried out gladiatrix and it was pretty dope)

on the Bsmith- for 150 points he doesnt do what he should. Rally is a great mechanic on paper, but its rare that a unit that lost models is out of combat the same turn it took those. if his ability let us rally IN combat, hed be a no brainer pick. but outside of combat makes its efficiency drop off. Maybe in vulkite spam he gets more value for his points, but in a HGB heavy list, i've been able to get 3x hgb back 1 time, which no doubt felt good, but was it worth 150 points over 4 lists? I dont think so. Its too much of a gimmick. and 6+ ward in a 12" WW bubble is not what our army needed. HGB have a 4+ and thats all im bringing anymore as far as infantry because vulkites hit like wet noodles. keeping the +1 AS buff wouldve been so much better. and a 6+ ward isnt going to keep our heroes alive who dont have royal retinue. The entire hero line shouldve had the retinue ability. even if non son/fathers couldnt get the 4+ ward save shrug, itd still be great to have the bodygaurd ability to protect them at the cost of our units. confirmed with my friend, he def messed up a few things and got some big ol powerups because of it, so 100% you can take my writeup with a grain of salt now, though i think alot of the sentiment still stands, especially the movement based complaints for an entirely melee army. - So we played the Power in numbers scenario. and there isnt anything about not burning our own objectives unless thats a core rule? Says on turn 2 we can burn an objective we control in the battleplan. - Kings +1 hit aura wasnt actually the one giving it, i thought it was, but it was the leviadon on the other side of the king, whose range was 15" due to an artifact or trait. So that checked out still, just wasnt from what i thought it was. However, he was also giving +1 to hit to his ranged units with kings melee only aura. So i had like 34 attacks from his turtle and sharks that were hitting on 2s and doing d3 wounds a piece. Another swing in his favor. -triggering the king first doesnt really matter though? He gets to decide what fights first regardless no? If your suggesting i picked something without one of his units that was gonna strike first, i didnt have that option. Ours only affects infantry, and he had chosen 2 units each engaged with 1 of my HGB, so no matter what he gets to strike first, and he just fights first with the unit that is in combat with the unit i used the counter attack on. Unless we are misinterpreting how strike first priority works, my point stands, he just gets to attack first and in this case decimate my unit. - kings bonus attacks ISSSSSS only in high tide, very good to know, my opponent has been misinterpreting that rule ( it happens obviously with new tomes) - thrall mass murder- So he gave himself +1 attack because he thought 1 wound and 2 wound models trigger that for thralls, which is incorrect, they only get +1 attack on models with 1 wound. So the thralls had and extra 10 attacks, and he ended up hitting with more than he rolled due to exploding 6s. I also didnt roll great on my ward saves ( only had a 6 AS) . So 100% quite a few powerful mistakes that swung stuff his way. Maybe he wouldnt kill that HGB unit and i could have swung more into the king before his activate and maybe even removed him since hes quite squishy. And his King wouldnt have done 18 wounds with his first attack. That being said, turn 3 was a roll away, he still blew out the other unit of HGB, nothing changed for that. theres a chance i couldve attacked back with a RS on magmadroth at a very reduced profile, but that wasnt going to save me from a turn 3 strike first entire army that only has 1 unit of HGB and 1 magmadroth as targets ( 2 foot heroes too liek i said, but at that point they dont matter). I think my main gripes that i keep encountering are these - our ability to choose engagements is trash, 1x prayer for a chance at run and charge with 1 unit that has 4" movement outside of using a movement rune to get 1 unit into combat that so far has ended up with me getting double turned 2x and having the shittiest rune effect active for 3 turns with no mechanical benefits for actually fighting. -an army that has an entire turn at what is usually the crescendo of the the battle ( turn 3) that strikes first, and the ability to give multiple units strike first during the other turns completely an utterly blows our counter attack ability out of the water ( pun intended) - Bsmith rally and counter attack are to situational even though it seems to be the main gimmicks the rules writers were looking to instill with this book. It just does not work as well as intended, even more so being 1x a battle per unit, and only on enemies turn. Its just so watered down. Even vulkites fight on death being limited to 1x a game kinda sucks and the same with Runefathers command ability ( couldve made it 1x a game PER RF.) - armor saves are pretty meh. ya its great having a 4+ ward on HGB, but it doesnt matter what your ward save is when theirs attacks that come in for 3-5 damage with rend 1-3 and you just auto take like 12 wounds at a time. HGB should be 4+armor and ward imo, or we needed to keep Bsmith armor save buff rather than ANOTHER ward save option with limited range ( rune for 6/5 ward or blow up our anvil for 6+ both army wide. ) - units are too expensive almost across the board. Vulkites are not worth it imo, they only have a high cost due to being 2 wound models, but they have a 5+as with no ward innately, and a 6 if their lucky, or a 5+ for a turn within limited range. The shield and picks are an absolute joke, 1 attack 1" reach, your lucky if 4-5 get to even strike back. Even HGB, the ward save is great, but the armor sucks, they arent some unmovable unit, weight of attacks or any decent rend multiple damage attacks are going to clean them out like everything else. Poleaxes are quite useless unless you hit 6s, i mean its a -rend/1dmg attack outside the mortals. the broadaxes HGB at least are consistent with the damage, i think their pretty great offensively. Magmadroths need to drop down too, i dont think by a ton, but 360 for RF on magmadroth is not hitting its weight at that point cost, even more so when the biggest ability on the scroll is a 1x a battle use.

Had my 4th game with new book, 2nd against deepkin. I'm gonna be brutally honest, our tome feels like a joke compared to theirs. - Army Faction: Fyreslayers - Subfaction: Greyfyrd - Grand Strategy: Hold the Line LEADERS Auric Runeson on Magmadroth (320) - Ancestral War-axe - Artefacts of Power: The Daemon Slayer Auric Runefather on Magmadroth (360)* - General - Command Traits: Blood of the Berzerker - Artefacts of Power: Axe of Grimnir Auric Runeson (80)* - Ancestral War-axe - Artefacts of Power: Arcane Tome - Spells: Flaming Weapon Auric Runemaster (125)* - Artefacts of Power: Droth-helm - Prayers: Curse Battlesmith (150)* BATTLELINE 10 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (320)** - Berzerker Broadaxe 10 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (320)** - Berzerker Broadaxe 10 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (320)** - Flamestrike Poleaxe TERRAIN 1 x Magmic Battleforge (0) CORE BATTALIONS - *Command Entourage - **Hunters of the Heartlands TOTAL POINTS: 1995/2000 Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App Battleplan- Holding power ( i think, idr the exact name, 6 objectives, 3 on the edge of each deployment) Opponent gives me first turn, i can possibly make one charge into a leviadon with HGB if i use the +2 rune and get a decent charge roll but wont be able to get my magmadroth hero that goes with the retinue into it too. And i dont wanna put the magmadroth up front so i decide to hunker down on objectives and let them come to me ( probably not the best idea because they pretty much just take the game turn 3 in my experience, but more on that later). If i moved the army forward in hopes of getting first go turn 2 i just leave myself completely open to the charge, his eels/allopexes have 14" flying, he can make units run and charge by putting them into a different tide, so thralls can haul ass and charge too, either way im getting charged in whatever fashion they want if i move up a few inches. Opponents first turn- moves up but doesnt charge, shoots into my general RF on magma and gets 5 wounds through and kills 1 HGB (using 1 leviadon and 2 allopexes). I win turn 2 initiative, i burn the far left objective so i can consolidate my other 10man HGB unit into the real battle. again the only charge i can make is into the leviadon and possibly some eels, but the eels would have been a massive charge. I also didnt wanna use the +2 movement rune in case they got a double turn and im just stuck in a fully strikes first combat with no added benefit to any units that survive. So i move forward to deny them 6" range on my objectives for the inevitable charge. Get a mystic shield off on one unit of HGB, miss my prayer of ash so no -1 to be wounded. Tuck my heroes safely away but have my Bsmith still giving all my heroes 6+ ward with the aura ( i shouldve used the 1x per battle ability on the next turn but it wouldnt have changed much.) Got my magmadroths behind their respective retinues. Their turn 2 they shoot the ****** outta my runeson magmadroth and put 7 wounds on him. Make some thralls be able to run and charge, give them auto 6 run, and they come down the flank of the side i burned the objective on ( burned it because i knew they were coming and needed to reinforce the other 2 objectives i had from the impending onslaught). They move the allopexs, Leviadon, arkhelian king well within charging range. The king charges in between 2 HGB units ( just enough space between them) to get between all 3 units ( giving King +6 attacks due to a command trait he has) the leviadon and shraks go into 1 unit of HGB, and the thralls charge the other unit that burned the objective and were coming to flank. end of charge phase, he uses Kings ability and gives 1d3 ( rolled 2) units their turn 3 tide ability to fight first. So he chooses the thralls first because they were engaged with my HGB that i picked to counter attack. Thralls come in with +1 to hit because of Kings aura ( just +1 to hit 12" range all day) and extra hits on 6s because of thrall master. Thrall master is what they got when we got flamekeeper, hes 110 points, and can give a unit 1 of 3 abilities every combat, so like our flamekeeper, but doesnt need 6 of your guys to die near them first to be useful, and then needing ANOTHER 6 to die before using it again. So just a better version of ours. Thralls, a 130 point unit, destroy 8 HGB. the 2 remaining ones attack back and get 1 wound through.. His next first strike unit of allopexes goes into my other HGB unit, much better luck on rolls and he only gets 4 of them. my turn to attack? NO, now its his normal activate, arkelian king goes ****** ham, his first weapon deals 18 damage to my magmadroth, i only have 2 HGB left in the retinue, he destroys both. his 2nd weapon was dedicated to my magmadroth so he didnt get to use it, but the mount goes into my injured HGB and gets 1 or 2 more. I attack back into the king with the remaining HGB, and actually finish him off. The leviadon drops 3 attacks worth 4 dmg a piece into the HGB, they fail their 6+ armor saves ( surprise) and get blown off the table. end of combat. They win the double turn, i extend the hand. There was not one moment i felt in control of the game. I got pretty much table'd bottom of turn 2, and turn 3 everything gets fight first so my 10hgb/ RF on magmadroth wouldnt have even gotten an attack in. And its not like the runemaster or battlesmith are bringing anything to combat. So maybe i shouldve been more aggressive, ran forward turn 1 regardless, hoping to charge 1 unit into combat with a leviadon that has a 2+ save. Wouldnt have changed a thing, he wouldve just made even more charges with thralls in addition to everything else. They get to decide when and where they engage, thats the fact of the matter. and our 1x a enemy turn strike first, well obviously not the best army to have it against. Tell me how our ability is good again when ****** like this exists in other armies? We have nothing to stop shooting but this army laughs at shooting. I know you cant compare army to army because its apples and oranges, but in this case they came out at the same time, and the most powerful ability we had got nerfed, and theirs got extremely buffed, one operates similar to the other, but its easy to see which is better. It just feels bad, we are a melee army, right? We dont have magic ( outside of an artifact for 1 of 3 spells), our shooting is... lets call it subpar😅. But we get 4 " movement, 1 prayer with a chance to make a single unit run and charge ( failed both my 2 prayer attempts tonight) and a command trait that gives us +1 charge within a limited range. Point is, its hard to initiate combat on my terms, yet the only thing the army has, is combat. So now we have to be reactive in combat, thats well and fine, we used to be tankier, able to endure with more reliable armor saves. But those armor save buffs are gone, the ward saves are the same, and the only thing that endures better now are the RF/RS at the expense of our reliably resilient unit. Being reactive in combat means dying and waiting for your turn to swing back with whatevers left. Our counter-attack is so limited that it will allow 1 unit to be proactive but only in an enemy phase, and at the cost of a CP and only on 2 units ( 3 but lets be real we're not counting auric Hearthgaurd for a melee counter attack.). Its just an uphill battle no matter how you look at it. Why play an army thats identity is to push forward and get into melee because its all they have, when they cant even reliably do that. I dusted this army off for the new book after taking a 2 year break from AOS, and i think ill put them back and look towards other armies that actually have Magic/shooting. Mainly shooting, because its just way too good in this game to just not have it. I gave the new book a solid try, i think Greyfyrd has the most potential, but maybe vulkite spam is the way to go. The idea of an army that is mainly about removing models so you can have a chance to put them back down so they can die again does not appeal to me however. I hope to see some badass FS players taking some 4-1/5-0 tourneys, but i am not gonna hold my breath when ****** like IDK is coming out at the same time.

I think it would be effective in keeping him alive sure. I just don't know if it's worth sinking 285 points of heroes underground for a turn or two where they give no benefit to the army. Runesmiter can't pray when he's underground so your losing out on any potential buffs for the turns your down there too. The rally is great when it lines up and works out, but in my limited experience of 3 games, that's been 2x so far. It's hard to justify that Instead of just having more bodies on the table for objectives imo. Someone earlier here mentioned pulling from the front line to get outside 3" then rallying, that Definitely seems like the move. You can rally in any hero phase if I'm not mistaken? So doing that even if they get a double turn to charge right back in you'll get to get 1 rally off first.

Oh boy just played 2 games today with the playgroup. first against maggotkin of nurgle and 2nd against new Deepkin. Lost both pretty decisively by the end of the 2nd round. Well, the deepkin won first turn on turn 3 and had a perfect charge into my last HGB/RF unit with eels/turtle/thralls so i just scooped. The deepkin game should have honestly been mine, i got the double from 1 into 2 and i didnt use the auto 6 run with a unit of 15 hgb and they only got a 2 which left them a like 11 inch charge they didnt make, which allowed his King and eels to charge my other HGB/RF that were tied up with the leviadon and some more stuff. Gotta be honest fighting deepkin got me salty. The strike first abilities that army now has are stupid good. Our fight first has proven in 3 games to be pretty mediocre tbh. It only works the first turn the units charged, it can only be applied to a unit 1x a game, and using it on vulkite berserkers is a waste of a CP unless you've got nothing else to use them on. Its still a solid tool, but when you put it up against the deepkin its not even close, i think they could've made ours simply fight first in the start of combat 1x a turn with a unit, even if it remained 1x a battle. The Bsmith and rally worked for me 2 times out of 3 games. My units were just never truly out of combat at the right time to gain it. When it did work it was great though, got 3 HGb back once, and 5 VKB back another time. But for 150 its overpriced. Especially when the 6+ward save doesnt really do much for us. If someone targets your heroes, a 6+ isnt going to make much difference, and trying to keep them on units of vulkite is only worht it if your bringing a heavy volstarg list i think. The nulsidian icon was pretty clutch against Maggotkin though. They have a ton of AOE spells. I think im going to lean into HGB with axes more, the chains just whiffed so much, and when they arent hitting 6s that no rend 1 damage profile is just absolute ****** for what they cost. Vulkites with shields hit like wet noodles, they 100% shouldve made the unit 2" reach. 1 attack pickaxes with a unit of 10 usually got me like 3-4 in range of actual combat when something charged them. But im only using 10 man units for objectives not in volstarg, but my experience so far makes me want to leave them in the box and just take 5 more HGB at that point. I only got to use the Daunting assault 1x over 3 games, i thought it would be much better, but its pretty hard to sneak a hero up to the front line while trying to keep the retinue within 9" for the shrug. I was constantly having problems keeping my Runefather/son near the HGB unit trying to make a charge. Maggotkin are just honestly hard to remove. Plague bearers all buffed up are a friggin wall and the mortals from diseases ended up destroying my vulkite berserkers and doing alot to everyone else. He was rolling hot. THe contagion table or w/e its called is brutal too. stopped me from doing heroic actions or the auto save battleshock/rally for 2 turns, then the next one was my units couldnt pile in, for 2 turns. Just brutal ******. List- RF- General- Grimnir spirit- Master rune of unbreakable resolve Runemaster- arcane tome- Ghost mist ( knew i was gonna be playing Heavy SCE shooting wanted some cover) Battlesmith- Nulsidian icon Runeson on magmadroth- Axe of grimnir/cold heart ancient VKB w/ shield x10 VKB w/ shield x10 HGB x15 poleaxes HGB x15 Broadaxes Hunter of heartlands/ warlord battalions Idk, i gotta play better for sure, but theres some pretty big weaknesses in this army after 3 games. HGB/ Runeson/father combo is great, all day every day. Runemaster and the magamdroth Rs/RF are great. The fact Runesmiter magmadroth doesnt have the retinue shrug means i will probably never take it outside of a Lofnir list, its just way to vulnerable. Battlesmith as i mentioned above just seems like its a waste of 150 points most the time, but nulsidian icon was clutch against maggotkin, but useless against sce/deepkin. Grimwrath seems really fun, but he just gets shot right off the table before he can make it into combat with his 4" movement. In 3 games all i was happy with was the HGB/RF/RS and runemaster. Gonna get some more games in this week and see if i still wanna play them going forward. FS are quickly becoming HGB/RF spam for me, and tbh thats kinda boring. but i also dont wanna buy/build/paint 80 vulkites to test out the other lodge haha.

Had my first game with SCE. They had a shooting heavy list. I went with a pretty stock greyfyrd list with 2x 15 HGB retinues and 2 10x vulkites with shields for objectives. Battlesmith and grimwrath got shot off the table first hero phase shooting from him. Just impossible to really save the Smith. Retinue ability is great for our Rs/Rf but it really blows we don't have something for the other heros. They have no chance of surviving halfway decent shooting. The strike first command ability was great, my opponent didn't want to charge my HGB in fear. I used it on some vulkite berserkers with shields and pickaxes, along with the fight on death since they were getting smoked by anhilators that turn. They hit like a wet noodle, 1 attack each is pitiful, but the 4+ armor is why I brought them, not that it made such difference. This was my first game with FS in like 3 years, I made some massive mistakes for sure. Used the movement rune turn 1 to grab all 3 objectives but didn't make it into combat, then he got a double turn and just stuffed me with 1 hero phase shooting and 2 more rounds of regular shooting not to mention dropping units outside 7" once a turn. We called it when he won priority for turn 3. So shooting is a real kick in the balls just as expected. I should've positioned better so I could have used the prayer to make a terrain feature block LOS, hid my Smith behind it. But it wasn't really doable with the table setup. Wondering if the 150 points is worth bringing the Smith when he's almost gaurenteed to die to some decent shooting.

happened to me earlier, just reset the app and it worked.

I'm gonna try one of these out this weekend. Might be a bit light on bodies, but i think it'll be nice and killy. Havent played FS in like 3 years, and ive played like 3 games of 3.0 so lmk if you see something funky here. Lodge- Greyfyrd- 1995/2000 RF on magmadroth- 360 General command trait; Spirit of Grimnir –Urgold runes enhanced on 5+ Artefact- Master rune of unbreakable resolve- once per battle, start of a phase bearer gets 3+ ward save until end of phase Mount trait- Coal heart ancient- -1 damage from melee Retinue- R1 Runefather on foot- 125 Artefact; Axe of grimnir- rend/dmg +1 Retinue- R2 Battlesmith -150 artefact- Nulsidian Icon- wholly within 12" ignore spells on 4+ Runemaster – 125 Prayer- heal (R1)HGB w/ Poleaxes x15- 480 (R2)HGB w/ Broadaxe x15 -480 VB w/ shields x10- 170 Grimwrath Berserker-105 Oath- I will let nothing stand in my way- reroll run/charge artifact- The daemon slayer- 1 bearers melee weapon ignores ward saves Battalions Warlord- RF on mag, RF, Battlesmith, Runemaster,Grim Berzerker) Hunters of the heartlands- HGB, HGB, VB Grand strategy- Hold the line ( battleline survives battle) Heres a 2x runefather on foot list i would run. The Runefather/runeson ability that lets their retinue attack with them is pretty great, i was thinking of dropping the RF on magmadroth for another RF on foot, that way i can do the dauntless assault ability with both blobs of HGB. So for 2 activates i get both RF and HGB attacking. didnt know if i should swap the grimwraths and vulkites in the battalions. I kinda figured the grimwrath would go head hunting which might be better in hunters battalion. Lodge- Greyfyrd- 1995/2000 RSM on magmadroth- 340 Mount trait- Coal heart ancient- -1 damage from melee Prayer-Ember Storm Runefather on foot- 125 General- Spirit of Grimnir –Urgold runes enhanced on 5+ Retinue- R1 Artefact- Master rune of unbreakable resolve- once per battle, start of a phase bearer gets 3+ ward save until end of phase Runefather on foot- 125 Artefact; Axe of grimnir- rend/dmg +1 Retinue- R2 Battlesmith -150 Artefact-Nulsidian icon Runemaster – 125 Prayer- heal Grimwrath Berserker-105 artifact- The daemon slayer- 1 bearers melee weapon ignores ward saves (R1)HGB w/ Poleaxes x15- 480 (R2)HGB w/ Broadaxe x10 -320 VB w/ shields x10- 170 Runic Fyrewall- 55 Battalions Warlord- Rsm on mag, RF,RF, Battlesmith, Runemaster,Grim Berzerker) Hunters of the heartlands- HGB, HGB, VB Grand strategy- Hold the line ( battleline survives battle)

Battleline has to be from your army, so DOK. you have an ally point limit you can go to, but you still need to adhere to the normal battleline/ behemoth max/ rules. So as long as your under the 25% and adhering to the normal list building rules, you can bring them.

I dont think their is a "build for the middle" philosophy. I think its a "Hurrr durrr this sounds good lets not playtest this at all and compare it to the current meta or the things everyone is calling broken. And also lets not touch that broken ****** for a year because you wouldnt want to balance a competitive game more than 1x a year" GW is inept when it comes to balance, everyone should know that by now. The community breaks their game within 2 days every time they release something. I think this new book is going to be a fun change from the DOK of the past, but i think we also took a massive hit to being competitive. It was already tough to run a melee heavy DOK when there so much magic and shooting that can delete half your units before you make it to the opponent, now the melee got worse, the defensives got worse, and the crazy stuff out there has been untouched. The wholly within changes were coming, we all knew that, but they took it away without giving us anything in return besides some point changes. I personally dont want to buy khanite shadowstalkers, i dont want to convert 20 more sisters to stalkers because sisters have somehow done a complete 180 to being one of the best units in the army to being extremely meh. Im looking forward to some fun games, but i likely wont be taking DoK to any friendly tournaments if i have to re-kit my entire army for the new Age of Shootmar... ill stick to KO there lol.

Agreed, they needed to make it "before rerolls" to make it anywhere near effective.

Thats still letting your oponent decide how they want to take the attacks versus being able to unleash them as you need. Would you rather have this than start of combat like eels or evocators? Its useable, ill give it that, but it takes the agency away from us and lets the opponent decide if they are going to take MWs or not. It is IMO a completely worse iteration of the same ability. I would still prefer to have their old MW on attack profile, even if they made them unbuffable from things like morathi. Its the only unit in the game that works like this and it is significantly worse for it.

I'm digging the changes just for the fact hag-nar isnt the absolute go to it was previously. I am a bit pissed they didnt change the blood sisters MW ability. End of combat for the MW is such dogshit when eels and evocators exist. And the rend nerf on Morathi is some hot garbage, it's a fuxking 600 point model.... But the wholly within hag-nar change was coming, if you didnt realize that over the last 2 years where everything else got changed to it the. you weren't properly paying attention. Hag brew nerf is pretty rough, I think hags could've been dropped back down to 60-70 now. Their only purpose was hags brew, and that's extremely unreliable now.

Ya even ignoring the ability to get an extra +1 attack because its a terrible sequence of events to properly use it, the run and charge would have made her useable. But alas, thats not how the cookies crumbled, and she wont see any use outside fun snek lists imo.

Morathi/ ironscale

Could definetely be, i tend to run WE for the extra attack while keeping the buckler and using catchecism for extra hits. But i think SoS are just as viable form the utility stand point. Maybe 30/We and 30/SoS for my preferred list.

I think deploying defensively is in our best interest, leaving the 10 sisters up front spread out for a screen in case they can make it in. Some armies might force a battleshock on a unit, but it is what it is, nothing to about it besides screen and then play aggressively once you've got your hags brew. Your approach with more 10 man blobs might be the way to go, but i like having 2 full units of 30 because it leaves you with a good hammer ( or rather 1000 paper cuts) to punish them on the crack back.

Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine- Temple: Hagg NarMorathi High Oracle of Khaine (600)- Lore of Shadows: MindrazorHag Queen on Cauldron of Blood (290)- Artefact: Iron Circlet- Prayer: Blessing of KhaineHag Queen (100)- Prayer: Catechism of Murder 30 x Witch Aelves (300)- Sacrificial Knives and Blade Bucklers30 x Witch Aelves (300)- Sacrificial Knives and Blade Bucklers10 x Sisters of Slaughter (120)- Barbed Whips and Blade Bucklers10 x Blood Stalkers (280)Total: 1990/ 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 114 Stalkers are able to support the blocks of WE, or hopefully snipe some heroes. With morathi CP thats still 40 shots a round, not bad. And the rest is the same its always been, run forward and stab with buffs.

This is the important part. Viable is a gray area, and depends on what you consider it to be. Personally when i say viable i mean viable in a meta driven competetive scene. And in this case they are not viable. a bunch of witch elves with a cauldron supporting in hag nar is still the way to go, theirs just no getting around that. In fact, im not even sure i wanna run 20 blood sisters anymore like i have the last few years. I'd rather take the normal WE blocks w/ support and include morathi for the spell casting. I think stalkers might replace sisters in most lists and their gonna be brought in light units to snipe heros.

Lol sorry to be the bearer of bad news when you were already disappointed 😭

But they didnt, they got worse since they have to drop in by round 3 now lol.

listening to honest wargamer they said those new battalions are only for the new temple. They also said MOrathi might be 2 drops because its 2 models. Im not sure if either of those are true though. Seemed like speculation to me, and the morathi being 2 drops seems nonsensical.