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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

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59 minutes ago, Causalis said:

For all the lore where the KO fight against (Tzeentch-)Demons one would assume that they would have come up with some devices/inventions to counter magic. Seems "I cast Skycannon, Wizard scum!" is what they came up with. :')

The lore has a number of anti-magic things, but they are all about negating/destroying magic.  

There is even a dedicated anti-endless spells Thunderer squad with black obsidian armor (I gonna paint 5 of them soon. I really like the idea!)

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8 minutes ago, Gecktron said:

There is even a dedicated anti-endless spells Thunderer squad with black obsidian armor (I gonna paint 5 of them soon. I really like the idea!)

Wow, this is some cool idea. 

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I just looked up the entry. They are called the "black marines". They all wear black obsidian armour carapaces, independent of any sky-port affiliations. They were formed to fight "non-physical entities" and are equiped with scatter-shot rifles and anti-ethereal equipment like, celestium burst-grenades, aether-vapour projectors or scintillator lenses.

Edited by Gecktron
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2 hours ago, Ser_namron said:

Random idea- Terrain piece that gives us access to a magic/prayer like system. ****** something like OBRS terrain piece would've been nice.

KO not using magic is hilarious... after all what exactly is Aether Gold they use for their Skyvessels? I'm pretty sure its magic. I would have thought they could come up with some Aethermatic constructions that no one else can use. Like OB soul linked spells or Khorne prayers, where even after you "cast" them, they are not something you opponent can use or interact with.  A magic siphon that kills other spells, make the (now worthless) Drillbill buzz around the board, an auto repair machine for sky vessels, an emergency collapsible hot air balloon that can pull a hero or squad up in the air out of trouble... possibilities are endless. But, clearly GW has different plans for KO. Hopefully this tome makes them uber popular and we get to see more / expanded units in the future.

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First game thoughts...  KO are strong.

Round 1

 Opponent gives me first turn.  10 man Ark co with khemist (great combo btw) runs up right flank.  2 frigates (10 man ark co inside each and 3 endriggers per boat in tow - shooty setup) and 1 ironclad (admiral(war wound), navigator(sven's flare gun), endrinmaster, 10 ark co) all fly high to opponents right flank 24' (edit; parked within 12" of squig herd and 18" of big spider... holy ****** carbines hit hard) away to begin barrage with edrinriggers and 3x cannons.  Heavy dmg to shaman on big spider and heavy damage to squig herd.  Squig herd fails battleshock bad and squigs rip apart the shaman nearby.  Right flank... toast.

Opponent launches magic and shooting causing  decent damage to boats. 

Round 2 Opponent steals for double turn.

More magic and shooting damage and hand of gork/morks (whatever) unit of 10 boingrots near my ironclad.

Opponent charges with spider riders and collides with frigate (9 wounds taken from magic and shooting).  I bust out "without our ships we are nought" (it does not distinguish when to use this ability, so I used it to guarantee survival of frigate).   Poor rolling didn't help my opponents cause.

Opponent charges with boingrots... MAKES IT!!!  He hands me 18 rend -1 saves on my ironclad with 8 wounds remaining.  Aethergold to reroll saves... I take 2 wounds.

My turn.... repair frigate and ironclad.  But hold my ground in combat (ironclad is grounded still and too slow to disengage away from combat).

Time to open fire.  The navigator spends his gold to reroll hits from his flare gun and levels it at the boingrots stabbing the ironclad.  Hits!  Now, my entire army can reroll hits on them.  Heroes, 30 ark co, and endriggers finish them off..  overkill.  The ships level their guns at 50 remaining gobbos in range and whittle them down.

Round 3 Opponent goes first.

Magic finishes 1 frigate - no loss to crew.

Boss on Mangler squig on left flank is still having trouble after being hit by two aetherstorms in turn 1 and 2.

35 Gobbos charge with little effect from -1 to hit bubble from khemist and aethergold for rerolling saves.  3 ark co die.

My turn 3.  Ships heal again.  Iron clad disengages and remaining frigate fly's high to engage mangler squig.  

Opponent concedes before dice start rolling.

Very fun... very powerful... Ark co with khemist on objectives... pretty damn tough.  -1 to hit and 4+ re rolling saves.  Dedicated combat unit will still rip em up... but still impressive.

Edited by Fert
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For someone looking to start a new Kharadron army, how many ships should you be including in a balanced 1,000 point force? I like the idea of a Gunhauler filling up a battleline slot, and Frigates seem to open up a lot of options, but I imagine there has to be a certain ships-to-dwarves ratio at which the army would become cheesy or boring to play against.

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Nice combo btw. Grudgebearer + Blade of Symmetry (Hysh) on Admiral in Ship for 3 Attacks 2+/2+ (rerollable!) -2 6(!) Damage against main target. Melee Cannon ball Punch to the face of Archaon and the like

 

Edit; And remember, we can get our Ironclad to cc with a 7“ rerollable (Fly high, Skyhook) if we want to

Edited by Phasteon
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Hi all

Quick rules question if you are playing iron sky squadron can your arkanaughts deploy within 9 of the enemy after their frigate flies high? I thought they couldn't but I cant see a rule stopping this

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27 minutes ago, SireScott said:

Hi all

Quick rules question if you are playing iron sky squadron can your arkanaughts deploy within 9 of the enemy after their frigate flies high? I thought they couldn't but I cant see a rule stopping this

Can they disembark after Fly High? The Iron Sky Attack Squadron says that you can leave the frigate afte/ before it has moved. But Fly High seems not to be a move (FAQ?).

But if that's the case, I have another question: Can we disembark these arkanauts after charging  or Pile In (the rules stat "move" and not "normal move"?

Btw, if the Fly High is a move, IMO they can disembarc within 9" (but not 3") of the enemy for a 3D6 guaranteed charge.

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24 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Can they disembark after Fly High? The Iron Sky Attack Squadron says that you can leave the frigate afte/ before it has moved. But Fly High seems not to be a move (FAQ?).

But if that's the case, I have another question: Can we disembark these arkanauts after charging  or Pile In (the rules stat "move" and not "normal move"?

Btw, if the Fly High is a move, IMO they can disembarc within 9" (but not 3") of the enemy for a 3D6 guaranteed charge.

RAW Fly High is not a move, you technically „redeploy“ the unit. It also states „instead of making a normal move“ which implies that its an alternative option for moving the Skyvessel. 

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8 minutes ago, Phasteon said:

RAW Fly High is not a move, you technically „redeploy“ the unit. It also states „instead of making a normal move“ which implies that its an alternative option for moving the Skyvessel. 

That's what I thought. I don't know if disembarking after Pile In or Charging phase (they could still charge with 3D6) is intended  but could be fun to steal some objectives with that.

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People saying "We dont need magic we have shooting" Have you seen Cities of Sigmar. Some of the best magic and shooting the game has to offer in the same list. 

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Just now, Eevika said:

People saying "We dont need magic we have shooting" Have you seen Cities of Sigmar. Some of the best magic and shooting the game has to offer in the same list. 

It's all about what you think about Kharadrons.

Another army using both mechanics doesn't invalidate any argument about people that think that KO shoudn't have magic or prayers.

IMO, maybe Barak-Thryng could use some prayers and Zilfin could ahve some type of new "weather-manipulation" lore, but it's fine if we don't have access to both mechanics.

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14 minutes ago, Eevika said:

People saying "We dont need magic we have shooting" Have you seen Cities of Sigmar. Some of the best magic and shooting the game has to offer in the same list. 

Which lists? Most Hallowheart armies only have 1 or 2 shooting units at best. And most of them have to stand still to get most out of their abilities. 
The Blood and Glory winner only had a unit of crossbows and one unit of handgunners. 

Magic outside of Hallowheart is much weaker. Doing both is hard for CoS. 

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8 minutes ago, Gecktron said:

Which lists? Most Hallowheart armies only have 1 or 2 shooting units at best. And most of them have to stand still to get most out of their abilities. 
The Blood and Glory winner only had a unit of crossbows and one unit of handgunners. 

Magic outside of Hallowheart is much weaker. Doing both is hard for CoS. 

Hallowheart shoots insanely hard and they can easily" teleport" a unit ignoring the standstill restriction. 

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39 minutes ago, Eevika said:

Hallowheart shoots insanely hard and they can easily" teleport" a unit ignoring the standstill restriction. 

But we can kill things like Mages or their shooting units (which most of them have a 5+/6+ Save) easily before they even get to teleport/shoot. 

I know that you don‘t want to like the new Battletome for whatever reason, but how comes that everyone that actually played the army found new KO to be very strong? 

I already played against 2 very tanky lists and came out ahead (from a tactical point of view anyway, dice were good on both sides).

Its just far more difficult to deal with high mobility than with good damage/saves*.

People can always theoryhammer how to break a deathstar, but you cant theoryhammer the whole movement plan of an army that can basically adapt to whatever screening/zoning you try to do. 

 

There will be many ways to stop KO or to give them a very hard time, but most of those are not meta right now and 99% of the players dont even know how as all they know is „move forward, buff, destroy“. 

*and we have good (reliable) damage and saves too. So many ways to have a 3+ rerollable and to make people – to hit, its insane.

I‘m already footslogging a Khemist with 20 Arkanauts. I will loadout my Thunderers with special weapons and send them behind the screen of Arkanauts. Its 500 pts but with Khemist and Fumigators the Arkanauts in front will be –2 to hit by most models and the Thunderers will blast away the engaged enemy next shooting phase. 

Arkanauts will hold due to 4+ rerollable/ CP battleshock immunity by Khemist (got more than enough CP to burn with war wound/ mask hailer Admiral)

Those 10 Thunderers are just doing about 7–8 damage with rifles out of the ship. (with rerolls). While being engaged in combat the 2 Aethercannons alone deal almost the same damage (with rerolls).

Edited by Phasteon
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1 hour ago, Eevika said:

People saying "We dont need magic we have shooting" Have you seen Cities of Sigmar. Some of the best magic and shooting the game has to offer in the same list. 

I haven't played KO yet, but have played several games against Cities quite a bit. It's a great army with a ton of builds. But apart from Irondrakes, their shooting dies from a stiff brief in my experience (I play Nighthaunt). And most magic heavy lists will feature handgunners and/or crossbowmen, not Irondrakes. Most of their magic casters are pretty easy to take out as well if you can get within range.

It would have been nice to see KO have a lore where they can manipulate weather for magic or just to have more anti-magic tools. However, I feel as if in a match up with a Hallowheart list, KO definitely has a good chance to come out ahead thanks to their maneuverability, firepower, and decent saves.

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Few questions:

1. If I run Barak-Zilfin do I have to take Admiral in my army? If I don't have an Admiral can I make any other hero my general and give him a different trait?

2. If I run Barak-Zilfin and have both Admiral and let's say Endrinmaster with Dirigible Suit can I make Endinmaster with Dirigible Suit my general and give him a different trait?

3. Ability: Magnificent Skyvessels: You can choose 1 extra Skyvessel in your army to have a great endrinwork. - Does this mean I get 1 artifact for free? (the second great endrinwork?)
 

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@Phasteon Im not even talking about a KO vs Hallowheart game i was making my point what a stupid argument it is to say "We dont have magic becouse we shoot" 

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3 minutes ago, Eevika said:

@Phasteon Im not even talking about a KO vs Hallowheart game i was making my point what a stupid argument it is to say "We dont have magic becouse we shoot" 

1. the argument sounded more like „we dont NEED magic because our shooting is sufficient“ - at least I understood it that way

2. Its very daring at least to call the argument „stupid“ just by your interpretation of it.

3. If I follow your logic it is as stupid to say „We need magic/equivalent because CoS have it too“ 

You compare 2 very different armies and leave out all the things we can do that they cant.

I dont get the whole „but other armies can“ mentality anyway. 

Funnily enough many people in this Thread compared KO release to OBR and said „they have army wide +1 save, immune to battleshock yadda yadda“ 

GUYS! 

We have pretty much +1 Save AND -1 to get hit (garrison) army wide AND many ways to give us immunity to battleshock, while also having all the rerolls we want AND the best supported shooting in the game.

Thats my take on it at least. 

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2 minutes ago, Phasteon said:

 We have pretty much +1 Save AND -1 to get hit (garrison) army wide AND many ways to give us immunity to battleshock, while also having all the rerolls we want AND the best supported shooting in the game.

Thats my take on it at least. 

Until someone just wraps your ironclad kills it in one hit and you lose everything inside it. Losing half your army in one turn of enemy combat. 

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35 minutes ago, Aryann said:

Few questions:

1. If I run Barak-Zilfin do I have to take Admiral in my army? If I don't have an Admiral can I make any other hero my general and give him a different trait?

2. If I run Barak-Zilfin and have both Admiral and let's say Endrinmaster with Dirigible Suit can I make Endinmaster with Dirigible Suit my general and give him a different trait?

3. Ability: Magnificent Skyvessels: You can choose 1 extra Skyvessel in your army to have a great endrinwork. - Does this mean I get 1 artifact for free? (the second great endrinwork?)
 

you don't have to take an admiral and you are free to make someone else your general, yes for question 3

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16 hours ago, GDD said:

I like the "runic invocation" type prayers you see on Fyreslayers and Dispossessed, but that narrative doesn't really work for KO.
I wouldn't mind having some more abilities like the Navigator has -were he or the Khemist could cause some sort of "Aethermatic Reactions/Phenomena" though. The army already sort of plays on that idea with the aethergold-shares and the Navigators ability.

Runes are practical and Kharadrons are anything if not pragmatic. Aether-infused runes that function akin to Spells/Prayers would be very fitting and hearken back to their roots. I've said this since Endless Spells were announced, but I'd love if all the Dawi factions received a unique, Runic system in the same vein as what Prayers are for non-magical factions. Hell, some of the more basic ones could even be shared among the <Duradin> factions with each spin-off getting it's unique spin. 

Edited by Clan's Cynic
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