AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

[Boar]

1 minute ago, Rachmani said:

Btw. Have we come to a verdict on special weapons vs. rifles on thunderers?

I was checking with full complement of specials vs all rifles and vs save 4+ rifles get ~2,5 dmg and specials ~3,5 and outside ships 4 dmg. If range doesn`t matter that much go for specials.

 

 

 

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

2 minutes ago, Rachmani said:

Oh, that I must have overread. 
 

That makes things worse. Or, more precisely amplifies the need to get a reroll from somewhere else - or simply put some more guns to aim at high profile targets.

Btw. Have we come to a verdict on special weapons vs. rifles on thunderers? If range is NOT that important I‘d expect 1 mortar, 2 of the others each to be roughly equal when boarded and simply better on the ground.

But 6 inches are 6 inches, and they could matter.

 

Honestly?  Idk if I’d use rifles when 3 of the special weapons are usable out of deepstike... and the one that isn’t is literally the best gun lol.

rifles are still the best bet for backfield support, so maybe keep a unit to defend your objectives from teleports while still adding damage.

in all honesty Thunderers in general don’t excite me. They appear to be our anvil, but Idk if they are worth it compared to other anvils. Minus 1 to hit is a big deal and the added damage they get destroys armour. I’m gonna try 10 in a frigate with special weapons to defend midfield objectives and see how effective they are at repelling attacks.

arkanauts might be some of our better ship fillers, they do so cheaply, put out more wounds then thunderers once you count the melee profile but at less rend of course but with their better melee profile they prolly outdo thunderers in damage in defending ships. Unless the alpha strike is super important they might be the better choice for hitching rides. On top of the boost when you eventually drop them on objectives... it’s a tough decision. 

The thunderers need to be on the ground for full effect but arkanauts do not.

thunderers look much more epic with cover involved. Just TRY to dig out 3 up rerollable saves at minus one to hit. It’s not happening. But for general use I think arks are better all purpose troops

maybe I’m underestimating how much rend is effective, I don’t play lists with tons of it. But the ships add rending shots so again I think arks are best for ship riding and I realize I just kinda ranted and that has nothing to do with your question

[cofaxest]

28 minutes ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

Honestly?  Idk if I’d use rifles when 3 of the special weapons are usable out of deepstike... and the one that isn’t is literally the best gun lol.

rifles are still the best bet for backfield support, so maybe keep a unit to defend your objectives from teleports while still adding damage.

in all honesty Thunderers in general don’t excite me. They appear to be our anvil, but Idk if they are worth it compared to other anvils. Minus 1 to hit is a big deal and the added damage they get destroys armour. I’m gonna try 10 in a frigate with special weapons to defend midfield objectives and see how effective they are at repelling attacks.

arkanauts might be some of our better ship fillers, they do so cheaply, put out more wounds then thunderers once you count the melee profile but at less rend of course but with their better melee profile they prolly outdo thunderers in damage in defending ships. Unless the alpha strike is super important they might be the better choice for hitching rides. On top of the boost when you eventually drop them on objectives... it’s a tough decision. 

The thunderers need to be on the ground for full effect but arkanauts do not.

thunderers look much more epic with cover involved. Just TRY to dig out 3 up rerollable saves at minus one to hit. It’s not happening. But for general use I think arks are better all purpose troops

maybe I’m underestimating how much rend is effective, I don’t play lists with tons of it. But the ships add rending shots so again I think arks are best for ship riding and I realize I just kinda ranted and that has nothing to do with your question

You still need to disembark for scoring. It looks like thunderers will be more useful as alfastrike/destraction unit, arcanaut - objective grabbers/second gunline, baloonboys - skirmishers/countercharge melee unit.

Edited January 6, 2020 by cofaxest

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

14 minutes ago, cofaxest said:

You still need to disembark for scoring. 

I know, I didn’t speak about objectives at any point in my rant. Just weighing pros and cons of keeping arkanauts in the vehicle while fighting. It adds a lot of damage that people won’t be keen on removing (the resources you would need to kill the arks before the boat is not worth the 90 point arkanauts)

also with arkanauts you can have enough points to fill up boats and have scoring units outside on the ground. 

My comparison is more like this: thunderers lose more then arks do by being in a boat, but arks can’t effectively fight in a deep strike oriented list. So for my lists I think I’ll run mostly arks with some thunderers for backline support, but I’m willing to try them as a forward anvil in a boat once or twice to get the feel for how effective they are.

nvm I blatantly lied, I’ll keep this post up so you can revel in my stupidity, I did talk about objectives and specified what I meant in the post below, which I really should’ve just specified here and edited the whole post

Edited January 6, 2020 by TheadTheOgorSlayer

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

8 minutes ago, cofaxest said:

You still need to disembark for scoring. 

also to clarify, I think I know what you mean now rereading my post. The forward objective grabbers are going to leave the boat, as otherwise they wouldn’t be the anvil, the boat would lol. I didn’t specify but I thought I didn’t have too as I talk about their minus 1 to hit debuff in an earlier sentence, which can’t  be used while garrisoned 

[crkhobbit]

Best thunderer weapons by math is Max decksweeper and aethercannon. 1 mortar.  No fumigator.

All of those can hit after a fly high, and they're better damage than rifles.  Mortar is a tax for the hit bonus in case you ever get out of the boat.

 

I'm going to magnetize mine for future proofing.

[Beliman]

5 minutes ago, crkhobbit said:

Best thunderer weapons by math is Max decksweeper and aethercannon. 1 mortar.  No fumigator.

They still are "1 for every 5 models"? I have a lot of KO still in boxes waiting to be assembled, but since the first reviews, I'm more confused t'han before. 

No complain btw, really happy that we are going to see a lot of boats on the table!!

[cofaxest]

7 minutes ago, crkhobbit said:

Best thunderer weapons by math is Max decksweeper and aethercannon. 1 mortar.  No fumigator.

All of those can hit after a fly high, and they're better damage than rifles.  Mortar is a tax for the hit bonus in case you ever get out of the boat.

 

I'm going to magnetize mine for future proofing.

I think you still needs 1 fumigator for -1 tohit)

[crkhobbit]

11 minutes ago, cofaxest said:

I think you still needs 1 fumigator for -1 tohit)

On my last read of it, fumigator wasn't mentioned.  I easily could have missed it.

 

12 minutes ago, Beliman said:

They still are "1 for every 5 models"?

Yes they are.  I'll probably be taking units of 10 or 20 though.  So 2-4 of the good weapons, but only one mortar and the rest rifles.

[Qaz]

4 minutes ago, crkhobbit said:

On my last read of it, fumigator wasn't mentioned.  I easily could have missed it.

 

Yes they are.  I'll probably be taking units of 10 or 20 though.  So 2-4 of the good weapons, but only one mortar and the rest rifles.

Ya, so for an all round unit of 10 the loadout would be: 1 sarge w/ rifle, 1 fumigator w/banner, 1 mortar, 2 decksweepers, 2 cannons, and 3 rifles. 

Not sure, there's a reason to go over 10 guys tho. 

[stratigo]

2 hours ago, Boar said:

 

you can only use one gold per phase for entire army

Really? Wow. GW really was conservative with KO. I just don't get it considering all they gave to other armies.

[5kaven5lave]

Don’t Zilfin and the Gunhauler wing thing give rerolls vs. flying and a targeted unit respectively?

[Eevika]

2 hours ago, Boar said:

you can only use one gold per phase for entire army

This is some ****** right here. Its not that op to use multiple in one phase

[plavski]

23 minutes ago, stratigo said:

Really? Wow. GW really was conservative with KO. I just don't get it considering all they gave to other armies.

There are ways to give extra gold for use in other phases, and don't underestimate how powerful a free triumph per phase is. Your entire army re-rolling all ranged hits on a single turn would be horribly obnoxious.

Edited January 6, 2020 by plavski

[Phasteon]

1 minute ago, Eevika said:

This is some ****** right here. Its not that op to use multiple in one phase

But its a good rule because you have to actually think before using a triumph. 

[Eevika]

2 minutes ago, plavski said:

There are ways to give extra gold for use in other phases, and don't underestimate how powerful a free triumph per phase is. Your entire army re-rolling all ranged hits on a single turn would be horribly obnoxious.

Not like some armies can give +1 save to their entire army, Ignore all their battleshocks and use as many points as they want to re roll all saves in melee. 

[Nizrah]

Just now, Eevika said:

Not like some armies can give +1 save to their entire army, Ignore all their battleshocks and use as many points as they want to re roll all saves in melee. 

Some armies? Only one can do it. And they have cons for it.

[Eevika]

2 minutes ago, Nizrah said:

Some armies? Only one can do it. And they have cons for it.

Its still a thing. I dont think letting Kharadron reroll all hits in one phase once per game is horribly obnoxious in any way.  They even have a downside after that

[crkhobbit]

36 minutes ago, Qaz said:

Ya, so for an all round unit of 10 the loadout would be: 1 sarge w/ rifle, 1 fumigator w/banner, 1 mortar, 2 decksweepers, 2 cannons, and 3 rifles. 

Not sure, there's a reason to go over 10 guys tho. 

I'm considering 20 in an ironclad with the ignore overburdened endrinwork - I think that's still a thing.

Also considering 20 with a khemist for Tempest Eye in Cities.

[Phasteon]

10 minutes ago, Eevika said:

Not like some armies can give +1 save to their entire army, Ignore all their battleshocks and use as many points as they want to re roll all saves in melee. 

But we can reroll saves in any phase, which makes us better against shooting. 

And we can shoot with rend, teleport across the board and have cool bearded masks. 

I own Fyreslayers, Ossiarch Bonereapers and Kharadron Overlords and though I never lost a game with OBR I am far more excited to finally play my favorite army again. 

And though I find it VERY difficult to think of a strong yet stylish list there will be ways to get both I am sure. 

Ships being finally good now is the mosz important thing, being able to fight out of out boats so that they dont just unload troops t1 is just amazing design. 

 

 

Edit: Good players will always find the necessary tricks to win games, and new KO got plenty of tricks.

Edited January 6, 2020 by Phasteon

[Grudgebearer]

After listening to the Reviews and reading the discussion I think that there is definitely enough potential in our new book, however at the Moment I am having a hard time coming up with a satisfying list Concept.

I think that skywardens will deinitely be the strongest non boat choice in the Book and I can imagine that we will See lists primarily built around the new Hero, these guys, some Riggers, and ships 

[Eevika]

14 minutes ago, Phasteon said:

Edit: Good players will always find the necessary tricks to win games, and new KO got plenty of tricks.

Never said KO was bad. Just bs that they restrict the book so much and let stuff like OBR exist. 

[GeneralZero]

What do you think about the thing (artifact I think) that give the gunhauler a 5 men transport capacity? Could be nice...

[Qaz]

Going to have a game this weekend with the new KO book and going with an escort wing from Barak-Urbaz.  Most likely against Tzeentch.

The Fleet Guidelines

Plan on giving extra D3 shares from the amendments to the Ironclad, Thunderers and Endrinriggers (in that order) and play defensively.  Grouping my army into 3 parts, 2 team of a  Gunhauler with 3 Wardens and the rest with Ironclad. Ironclad team will be fighting the enemy main force and take center objectives whilst the Gunhauler teams will try to sneak onto backfield objectives. 

When opportunity presents itself the khemyst will throw his bottle of lightning to slow down and rappel down with the grundstok thunderers to defend the ship and objective. Note that this is after enemy's own turn. With -2 to hit from the unit's fumigator and  khemyst with rerollable 4+ save will give me some staying power. 

The Endrinmaster can pop up where he is needed most or chase down all the support heroes at the back. Not so sure on the artefact yet, that Phosporite Bomblets can be clutch or Ethereal Amulet/Thermalrider for staying power.

Don't think getting the first turn is important for KO. The battalion for me is literally for the extra Endrinworks, Command Point and Artefact of Power. 

Test list version 2:

Quote

Skyport: Barak-Urbaz
 

Heroes 
Endrinmaster in Dirigible Suit (220) 
- General: Tough as Old Boots 
- Artefact: Aether Injection Boosters 
Aether-Khemist (90)
- Spell in a Bottle: Warp Lightning Vortex (100)*
*Pending GW clarification
 

Battlelines 
3 x Skywardens (100)
- 1 Grapple launcher, 1 Volley Gun
3 x Skywardens (100)
- 1 Grapple launcher, 1 Volley Gun
6 x Endrinriggers (200) 
- 1 Grapple launcher
Grundstok Gunhauler (150)
-  Endrinwork: Barak Urbaz
Grundstok Gunhauler (150)

Units
10 x Grundstok Thunderers (240)
- 1 Fumigator, 4 Rifles, 2 Decksweeper, 2 Cannons, 1 Mortar
Arkanaut Ironclad (510) 
- Endrinworks: Last Word

Battalion
Grundstok Escort Wing (140)

 

 

[Qaz]

2 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

What do you think about the thing (artifact I think) that give the gunhauler a 5 men transport capacity? Could be nice...

Could be really nice for the 1000 point game. Have  grundstok thunderers in them and run 2 in Barak-Zilfin:

Vanguard

• Thunderers (120)
• Gunhaulers (150)

Core

• 6 Endrinriggers (200) 
• Endrinmaster in Dirigible Suit (220)
  • General

Rearguard

• Thunderers (120)
• Gunhaulers (150)

How I wish they came standard with it though. haha.