AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[azmarus]

10 hours ago, Future said:

My buddy is offering to part with some unpainted vanguard models. I think its most of a start collecting box. I don't main stormcast but have been thinking about playing them as a second army. I've heard this is the 'worst' chamber but I love the way they look and farstriders. Anyway are there any competitive lists that run this chamber and if so what are some strategies I could use with their units, they look more hit and run?

Try this list^

Spoiler

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer
Mortal Realm: Aqshy

Leaders
Lord-Aquilor (200)
- General
- Trait: Staunch Defender 
- Artefact: Ignax's Scales 
- Mount Trait: Keen-clawed

Battleline
5 x Vanguard-Hunters (120)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Shock Handaxes
5 x Vanguard-Hunters (120)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Shock Handaxes

Units
6 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (360)
3 x Vanguard-Palladors (200)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Shock Handaxes

Total: 1000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 20
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 54

if u want more competive just remove palladors and take 9man unit long raptors

[ledha]

3 hours ago, azmarus said:

Try this list^

  Hide contents

 

if u want more competive just remove palladors and take 9man unit long raptors

wut ? the longstrike were always average and the "look out sir!" rules is one of the final nail to their coffin

[robinlvalentine]

22 minutes ago, ledha said:

wut ? the longstrike were always average and the "look out sir!" rules is one of the final nail to their coffin

It's one of those gimmick lists where you just spam the Anvils command ability to make them fire over and over and delete everything 

[Requizen]

24 minutes ago, robinlvalentine said:

It's one of those gimmick lists where you just spam the Anvils command ability to make them fire over and over and delete everything 

If you choose Anvils, you can't have Staunch or Ignax's Scales, you have to use the Trait and Artifact from Anvils. 

It's not a bad list, but if you're trying to do the Anvils Longstrike thing in 1000 points, I'd drop the Palladors and take a Castellant, a unit of Aetherwings, and go down 50 for an extra CP.

[XReN]

59 minutes ago, ledha said:

wut ? the longstrike were always average and the "look out sir!" rules is one of the final nail to their coffin

Can't really agree on that, I happend to use a unit of 6 to amusing results as hero snipers. I belive double activation will effectively mitigate impact of look out sir when executing support heroes and give them enough damage to deal with elites/monsters. Also their headshots are not affected by modificators and with 18 shots a turn they can count for consistent damage deallers against very well protected targets. 
But still very pricey and I doubt spamming them on 1k.

[ledha]

18 minutes ago, XReN said:

Can't really agree on that, I happend to use a unit of 6 to amusing results as hero snipers. I belive double activation will effectively mitigate impact of look out sir when executing support heroes and give them enough damage to deal with elites/monsters. Also their headshots are not affected by modificators and with 18 shots a turn they can count for consistent damage deallers against very well protected targets. 
But still very pricey and I doubt spamming them on 1k.

a 360 pts unit with 12 wound save 4+ and doing something like 5 wound in average per turn on a 4+ save don't scream hero sniper for me.  If i had to slap anvils to a unit, i would prefer to use it to a pack of 9 raptors hurricane or 10 evocators, who will do a way better job in my eyes, and for a slighty more expensive price.

Edited September 20, 2018 by ledha

[Lord Ein]

Looking for tips for a 1250 tournament coming up. SC, nighthaunt, skaven and seraphon are coming. Have most of the models so open for most suggestions! I’m a pleb with only a handful games experience  brute force, mixed army or shooting heavy, i’m up for everything ?

[PJetski]

2 hours ago, ledha said:

a 360 pts unit with 12 wound save 4+ and doing something like 5 wound in average per turn on a 4+ save don't scream hero sniper for me.  If i had to slap anvils to a unit, i would prefer to use it to a pack of 9 raptors hurricane or 10 evocators, who will do a way better job in my eyes, and for a slighty more expensive price.

The "Anvilstrike" list is 12 Longstrikes shooting twice per turn.

Trying to use the Anvils CA on Evocators is a waste, its too easy to play around a slow melee unit. Hurricanes short range, poor accuracy, and low rend makes them a worse choice for the command ability than Longstrikes.

[Nos]

While we're talking Vanguard, why are Gryph Hounds and Aetherwings getting bad press these days? Seem pretty versatile

[Darkrich]

17 hours ago, Nos said:

Think you lack damage and survuvability. I really respect the idea to have a number of units as lack of them is a frequently a Stormcast issue and it's interesting and different, but you've traded it for the stuff they're good at I think.

Why the Templars? If you were to take SD the number of units in the table would probably give you nice overlap, for largely defensive units, in need of further survuvability, seems ideal.

You might want to invest in the Justicar conclave given you've already got two Raptors, it would certainly suit the "I've got more units than you can target" vibe and enhance your already strong map control. A Knight Azyros would further augment your shootiness. 

I would then recommend as big a unit of something durable to sort of call a double bluff. Focus on the big unit? Get irritated and out manouvered by many things. Focus on the many things? Big unit in your face.

I hear what you're saying. It's difficult to judge because the style of army doesn't fight the standard way, mano y mano.  Rather it tries to take advantage of positioning and exploiting enemies weaknesses. After many test games with this list, it really shows it's strengths and failing based on the mission rather than the list. Missions with lots of objectives, like scorched earth, are fairly simple. In these, you can steal all the objectives forcing the opponents strong units to debate between killing or holding the objectives.  The fewer the objectives, the harder it becomes as it forces me to fight the opponent head on. 

I chose the Astral Templars as my army is painted in their colors. But I've become quite fond of it. The +1 to hit monsters is almost always relevant. They can also spend cp to get +1 to wound on hero's. Turn's out most monsters are heros too.  I wish the command trait or artefact were better, but it's not worthless.  I did try anvils of the heldenhammer with long strikes before, but I found I had to choose between extra shooting or jumping around the board too often, as CP is limited. Also, one of my opponents is a beastclaw player, and frost wreathed breath makes me reconsider putting my eggs in one basket. 

I can look into adding a big unit of sequitors, evocators, or a unit of dracoths to absorb hits. SD is tough because the aquilor is never there to support the shield wall. But them and liberators can hold them back long enough to swing the game.

[Darkrich]

4 minutes ago, Nos said:

While we're talking Vanguard, why are Gryph Hounds and Aetherwings getting bad press these days? Seem pretty versatile

With the clarification on aetherwings a page or two back, I'm always going to include one to stop things live gavriel bombs or eels. Just hop them into melee range and laugh righteously.  On the other hand gryph hounds are so expensive. I have yet to try them, but it's hard to do so. They form a similar role of shielding and protecting from deep strikes. The only thing I can imagine is stringing them out throughout your back field, since 6 at max coherency will cover alot of ground. When the deepstrike happens and they are in range to call, your entire back line will be wholly within at least one hound.

[Nos]

8 minutes ago, Darkrich said:

I hear what you're saying. It's difficult to judge because the style of army doesn't fight the standard way, mano y mano.  Rather it tries to take advantage of positioning and exploiting enemies weaknesses. After many test games with this list, it really shows it's strengths and failing based on the mission rather than the list. Missions with lots of objectives, like scorched earth, are fairly simple. In these, you can steal all the objectives forcing the opponents strong units to debate between killing or holding the objectives.  The fewer the objectives, the harder it becomes as it forces me to fight the opponent head on. 

I chose the Astral Templars as my army is painted in their colors. But I've become quite fond of it. The +1 to hit monsters is almost always relevant. They can also spend cp to get +1 to wound on hero's. Turn's out most monsters are heros too.  I wish the command trait or artefact were better, but it's not worthless.  I did try anvils of the heldenhammer with long strikes before, but I found I had to choose between extra shooting or jumping around the board too often, as CP is limited. Also, one of my opponents is a beastclaw player, and frost wreathed breath makes me reconsider putting my eggs in one basket. 

I can look into adding a big unit of sequitors, evocators, or a unit of dracoths to absorb hits. SD is tough because the aquilor is never there to support the shield wall. But them and liberators can hold them back long enough to swing the game.

Oh I can see how it would be really effective at objectives. It's just the heavier combat scenarios might be a bit much. But it sounds super interesting/fun to play with and against, good on you. The past few pages have sort of forced me to consider taking a lot of Vanguard stuff now, so my wallet is angry at you.

[Darkrich]

Haha. It's still a work in progress. I just felt the gavriel bombs were too one dimensional, and was looking at alternate ways to approach. 

[Nos]

1 hour ago, Darkrich said:

Haha. It's still a work in progress. I just felt the gavriel bombs were too one dimensional, and was looking at alternate ways to approach. 

They are incredibly tedious in my opinion aye. As are all one note strategies. The Art of War would have been very short and very boring if Sun Tzu had thought like a lot of AOS players.

Edited September 20, 2018 by Nos

[kenshin620]

7 hours ago, Nos said:

They are incredibly tedious in my opinion aye. As are all one note strategies. The Art of War would have been very short and very boring if Sun Tzu had thought like a lot of AOS players.

 

Now I'm imagining the Art of War...written by GW. ?

"Ignore page 36, instead refer to this errata on sieges."

[XReN]

12 hours ago, Nos said:

While we're talking Vanguard, why are Gryph Hounds and Aetherwings getting bad press these days? Seem pretty versatile

I don't like the range on GHounds warning cry, you basicly need to work out your deployment around idea of using them. I'm still going to try them because the number of undeads, seraphon and other armies that can summon units (as well as dropping stormcasts) 
As for aetherwings - they are pretty good, I'm thinking of dropping a unit of raptors with 2-3 units of aetherwings to mess with opponents movement and feed him our battle pidgeons whille grabbing points and blasting enemy with shooting.

[ledha]

units of gryph hound are useless. Too expensive, to fragile, warning cry is not practical, and they are too numerous so don't have enough space to really manoeuver.

However, the single gryph-hound summoned by the castellant and the veritant are awesome as cheap move blockers and objective grabber. Moving 9, charging a big unit, attacking first an moving 6" behind his unit to threaten an objective, or in a way that mess with movement (the rule of 3" inch mean a single 40mm base can stop a unit dead in its tracks if you are front of it, or on its side) can make him absolutely cancerous to face if you don't have shooting attacks.

Edited September 22, 2018 by ledha

[Overread]

This issue I see for gryph hounds is that they've got a good anti-deepstriking or summoning ability on a unit that is all about close combat and is fast to move. So it doesn't want to be hanging back protecting the archers, instead it wants to be ranging out in front to charge; and with no save they almost want to be hunting siege engines/artillery and archers. Thing is they are a prime target for one turn of ranged fire from any 3 hit 3 wound unit as there is no save to worry about. Anything that can deal a volume of hits will decimate them. 

 

I honestly feel that at present they should split hounds into two groups with two different warscrolls. Gryph  hound protectors that are summoned to the battlefield and mostly hold the same stats they do now; and gryph hound packs which have a higher level of armour and general protection which are bought and paid for and deployed in groups to the table. 

That gives the one hound protectors for characters a reason to hang around their character and keeps them from being too strong; whilst performing well with their warning cry. And gives you an attack group for the separate hounds which might even have an attack call instead of a defensive call - letting them range forward where they would rather want to be 

 

 

Edited September 21, 2018 by Overread

[Roark]

16 hours ago, PJetski said:

Trying to use the Anvils CA on Evocators is a waste, its too easy to play around a slow melee unit.

But we have sooo many tools to get them where they need to go: Translocation, Cogs, Heraldor, Scions, Gav et al.

A 10 person unit of Evocators attacking twice in a turn is absolutely devastating, and I'm coming from Khorne (and liberal use of amped-up Letterbombs).

[XReN]

1 hour ago, Roark said:

But we have sooo many tools to get them where they need to go: Translocation, Cogs, Heraldor, Scions, Gav et al.

A 10 person unit of Evocators attacking twice in a turn is absolutely devastating, and I'm coming from Khorne (and liberal use of amped-up Letterbombs).

Everything apart torpeding them with heraldor is a giant point dump (and Gav is not viable for Anvils) so You only get 11"+charge (spending CP 5/6 times for run rolls) to stay point effective, though it is not by any means bad, that's still a lot of points to take a unit from safety into combat and you still have to wait until next hero phase to throw additional activastion on.

[PJetski]

2 hours ago, Roark said:

But we have sooo many tools to get them where they need to go: Translocation, Cogs, Heraldor, Scions, Gav et al.

A 10 person unit of Evocators attacking twice in a turn is absolutely devastating, and I'm coming from Khorne (and liberal use of amped-up Letterbombs).

You can't use Gavriels command ability and the Anvils command ability in the same list.

Deep strike charge (9" = 28%) is not reliable. Translocation (66%) and Cogs (58%) are not reliable tools.

None of them let you get melee range during the hero phase (which is when you activate Anvils CA) so you need to survive that melee phase and then hope for a double turn... it's just a terrible strategy. Anvils should be used on shooting units to (almost) guarantee value.

[XReN]

25 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Anvils should be used on shooting units to (almost) guarantee value.

This

[Nos]

3 hours ago, PJetski said:

You can't use Gavriels command ability and the Anvils command ability in the same list.

Deep strike charge (9" = 28%) is not reliable. Translocation (66%) and Cogs (58%) are not reliable tools.

None of them let you get melee range during the hero phase (which is when you activate Anvils CA) so you need to survive that melee phase and then hope for a double turn... it's just a terrible strategy. Anvils should be used on shooting units to (almost) guarantee value.

I mean with a mobile general then it's nice to have the option to get a convinient or decisive pile in at some stage, that's very powerful still. But yeah it's not a reliable turn 1 tactic for a kamikaze melee unit.

[Freejack02]

4 hours ago, PJetski said:

You can't use Gavriels command ability and the Anvils command ability in the same list.

I'm pretty certain you can, you just need to take unit's that already have the Hammers keyword while using the Anvils stormhost (as all units will gain Anvils but not lose Hammers). I'm not saying it's anything near optimal, but it can be done. You can drop in Gavriel, Vandus, and Steelhearts for example, buff em up and go for a rather bizarre alpha-strike. 

There was a list many pages back that theorycrafted Tempest Lords with Gavriel and all the native Hammers units to try and generate as many CPs to burn through as possible. Looked like fun, but probably not terribly effective. 

[Darkrich]

I was under the impression that you cannot combine stormhosts. Gavriel is Hammers and can only affect other Hammers units. If you take Gavriel in a Anvils list, he can use his command ability but only other Hammers keyword models will use it (pretty much himself). The dropping evocators are anvils and cannot benefit from it.