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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

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You need to screen your ballistae with chaff units like Liberators

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4 minutes ago, Marzillius said:

I played 3 Ballistas and an Ordinator in a tournament last weekend. They were a continual disappointment. I deep striked them along with the Ordinator within 18" of a priority target and usually took it out or heavily damaged it (they do hit really hard). But then they usually get charged by some chaff and have to shoot at them for the following 2-3 turns. Or they just get killed if they are outside of cover. Then they are soooooo slow and clunky. Only 3" move and each unit counts as only one model, so once they're deployed they aren't going anywhere, and they can't hold objectives very well. I found them to be a complete liability not worth 440 points. Use maybe one or two Ballistas as fire-support, but don't use an entire Ordinator battery. Not worth it.

If you put 3 ballista and LO, didn't you eliminated anything in the turn you DS them? Besides, why you want to move them...Once you DS them into a good position, it has a range that can cover half of the table.

Edited by HammerOfSigmar

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13 minutes ago, PJetski said:

You need to screen your ballistae with chaff units like Liberators

Sure, but they you're sinking even more points into a unit cluster that will lose you the mission. 5 Liberators are not enough screen. 10 might be, but then you have 640 points there. 

13 minutes ago, HammerOfSigmar said:

If you put 3 ballista and LO, didn't you eliminated anything in the turn you DS them? Besides, why you want to move them...Once you DS them into a good position, it has a range that can cover half of the table.

Sure, game 1 I killed a Lord-Castellant and a bunch of Evocators and a lot of wounds off a Stardrake. Game 2 was Total Commitment so RIP, but they killed like 20 Tzaangors over the course of the game. Game 3 they killed Crypt Flayers that just came back all the time, so nothing happened basically. Game 4 they killed 60 Freeguild troops. Game 5 they took 10 wounds off Nagash and then spent the rest of the game in combat with 30 Grimghast Reapers. Also, firing one shot with them is bad for the points you pay. The Ordinator is only really useful if you're inside 18" of something. Firing 1 shot with each Ballista is not worth 440 points. Having one or two Ballistas firing away a shot across the table is alright, but not the entire Ordinator supported battery.

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1 hour ago, Marzillius said:

Sure, but they you're sinking even more points into a unit cluster that will lose you the mission. 5 Liberators are not enough screen. 10 might be, but then you have 640 points there. 

Sure, game 1 I killed a Lord-Castellant and a bunch of Evocators and a lot of wounds off a Stardrake. Game 2 was Total Commitment so RIP, but they killed like 20 Tzaangors over the course of the game. Game 3 they killed Crypt Flayers that just came back all the time, so nothing happened basically. Game 4 they killed 60 Freeguild troops. Game 5 they took 10 wounds off Nagash and then spent the rest of the game in combat with 30 Grimghast Reapers. Also, firing one shot with them is bad for the points you pay. The Ordinator is only really useful if you're inside 18" of something. Firing 1 shot with each Ballista is not worth 440 points. Having one or two Ballistas firing away a shot across the table is alright, but not the entire Ordinator supported battery.

No offense meant, but you very well may have just been positioning them badly. Setting up exactly 18" away and just plopping down feels strong, until you get countercharged as you said. 

My experience with Ballistas has been something like this:

  • Drop on a flank, where only one unit will be in counter-charge distance. You'll probably kill or cripple it, so that's no big deal.
  • Additionally, sometimes dropping in closer is a better choice if you can get close to something important. A powerful Hero behind models? Drop 9" away from the unit and blast the Hero off. Sure you might get countercharged, but without support, who cares? Damage has been done.
  • Hold off until Turn 2 or Turn 3. Yes, you miss out on shots, but by that point they'll have moved out and will have more spread out targets to choose from. If they don't move out because they're afraid of the drop... good, you've got board control. 
  • Additionally, if you wait, you can drop behind things. You don't need to put Libs or Sequitors up in the sky to drop with them, you can move up the board, and drop behind your shieldwall to shoot the things that they're in combat with/will be in combat with. 
  • 9" is a pretty big bubble, so you can easily spread them out max away from the Ordinator. Your opponent will be hard pressed to engage all 3 at the same time, without spreading units too thin to do real damage. If you pop all three of them adjacent, they can all get tied up by one unit of Liberators!

Honestly from your recounting it sounds like they did enough damage to be worthwhile, and with a bit of practice you'll get even more mileage out of them. I'd say use them a few more times and see if you still hate them.

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Looking for ideas for 500 pts list for Doubles Tournament. 2x 500. My pair will be probably lots of plugue monks.
Our current idea is:

Anvils

Lord Veritant
Liberators - 5
Raptors with Hurricanes - 6

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1 minute ago, Nizrah said:

Looking for ideas for 500 pts list for Doubles Tournament. 2x 500. My pair will be probably lots of plugue monks.
Our current idea is:

Anvils

Lord Veritant
Liberators - 5
Raptors with Hurricanes - 6

That's nice and amusing. As long as he has enough rats to surround you, you'll lose a good number of friends.

Assuming it's 1 Hero 1 Battleline required, you could try:

Lord Arcanum on Tauralon - Gryph Feather Charm, Azyrite Halo, Steel Pinions, Staunch

5x Judicators

The Arcanum is about as impossible to kill as anything in 500 points (excepting an Etheral VLoZD + 10 Zombies), and you can be the anvil to your buddy's Plague Monks.

Alternatively, something like:

Lord Arcanum on Gryph Charger - Lightning Blast, Staunch, Staff of Focus

Judicators

Comet

Probably not as brutal as the Anvils one, but more flexible and some melee punch. The Comet is honestly gamebreaking at low point values, where pegging two foot Heroes with it could end the game outright.

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Hi there. I have never tried such low points game lists. 

Is it really fun. The lowest i have done is 1000 pts, but i think it is always lacking something ... 

 

I played some mordheim but it is not the same gaming system

Edited by LordCelestant Imperius 1st

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I think with Ballistae you have to ask yourself what they’re there for.

Obviously they have the capacity to do enormous damage to pretty much anything but they also have the potential to do nothing. The more you invest in them the more you’re backing yourself into a corner in respect to how much they *need* to perform, and that’s an inherent risk in the way that 400 points spent on 10 Evocators isn’t. Even 240 points for a LO and one Ballistae is a ten man Sequitor squad you could have bought instead.

They will nearly always have an application but you really need to think about what that is.

I like to use them to hunt heroes and monsters because the multiple damage multiple rend shots from a distance is genuinely an excellent antidote to most of their strengths, whereas you would lose more expensive combatants up close in a fight with them or be unable to get to them at all without a 9” charge.

They obviously can be good at thinning the ranks of hordes etc as well but it tends to be a less notable contribution in my experience. The amount of damage you’re requiring in those instances to make a difference is statistically unlikely to happen.

Whereas 240 points to severely maim or kill a monster pays for itself and is pretty reliable. You’re then either free to continue to pepper stuff or alternatively it gets charged, it dies, but you’ve already done what you wanted with it and tied up another unit in the process so win-win.

Ive had a few games where the Ballista essentially did nothing but people were so bothered by its potential that they wasted an important unit or spells trying to “shut it down” when it hadn’t even started up. 

Also you can literally drop them pretty much anywhere due to their range, they don’t have to outflank. You don’t need to invest in screening them if you just stick them behind your advancing battle line on turn 2 or whatever.

They’re also pretty good bait against certain opponents. Last game I deliberately set up the LO/Ballistae team in a vulnerable looking space which encouraged the Black Coach to be set up opposite it. Then in my turn I just dropped a 5 man Lib squad in front of it to take the charge and shot at other stuff. Tied the coach up for two turns and it had nothing to show for it other than a few dead Liberators,  while Ballista has annihalated a big unit of Spirit Hosts.

Edited by Nos

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Hello all.

Ive started this amazing army, and after reading quite a good time on this forum, i think i have reach a list that mix both: my personal favortite miniatures on aesthetics and the combos that people use to win.

so the list goes something like this.

-1 lord arcanum on dracoline (240)

-1 castellant (100)

-1 ordinator (140)

-1 heraldor(100)

-1 incantor(140)

-5x sequitors(120)

-5x sequitors(120)

-5x sequitors(120)

-2x ballista (200)

-6x evocators on dracolines (600)

-comet (100)

total:1980/2000

My worries for the list is that 3x 5 units sequitors are only for objectives,but maybe i need 1 big of 10. And also i cut 1 ballista for the comet, maybe using only 2 i dont need the LO and i can put more people on 1 unit, but i think the comet is just too good and the ballistas are very luck-dependant. 

Thanks for reading me and sorry for my english.

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Edit: For command trait I figure staunch defender, artefact Staff of focus and mount trait Steel pinions. Arcanum general and got the artefacts. Maybe drop battlemage, exchange geminids for spellportal and add a unit of Prosecs or Libs. I think I'd rather have a second incantor than a battlemage though. Most of their unique stuff is featured in the realmspells.

Barely got any response on fb so I'm reposting this here. Let me know what you think!

 

"Looking at how I want to build my Stormcast list, I wanna play around with allies and have some shooting. Phoenix is lovely model, good unit, battlemage has some nifty extra abilities. Plan is to bubblewrap with sequitors, most things will probably wanna huddle close to that. Decimators dropped on a objective or close to blob unit, they're quite sacrifical but will be a pain to kill. Buff phoenix, spam spells, go to town. What do you reckon of this list, what would you do different?"

StormCASTINGROLLS.jpg

Edited by izirath

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-Decimators , +Evocators, they are just better and bring one more cast for your phoenix

-1x Judicators - Battlemage, + Sequitors + Knight Incantor

 

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Hey all,

I’m hoping to get some feedback on my Stormcast list. Im new to the game and have built around the Soul Wars box and tried to expand it with the right hero units to support what I have. 

My list is attached.

To give a brief overview of My thought process: 

1. The obvious Aplha Strike option using 10 Evocators and Gav. Flexible as a deployed unit if I instead decide to Deep Strike the Balistae.

2. Plenty of Wounds and potential damage in the battle lines. The Sequitor units will be able to hold objectives and hold off enemy units for a bit of board control as well. 

3. Small unit of liberators to help with board control/holding back field objectives and denying enemy Deep Strike. 

4. Relictor included for translocation prayer for quick reinforcements if needed and to help with the Stormcasts poor movement.

5. Heralder included for the run and charge buff to help mostly the sequitors if they need to intercept or get somewhere a little faster. Also the Terrain horn is fun as hell.

6. Included the Balistae as my shooting option with a plan to either deploy in my backfield to shots into enemy battle line or to hold in reserve and deep strike against priority targets. 

7. Ordinator to buff the Balistae... this is the choice I am least confident with and would love to hear some thoughts! Is he worth bringing along or would I be better off investing points elsewhere? 

 

As as a separate question... what are the best uses for Castigators? I have so many of the damn things ! 

Thanks in advance! 

Stormcast.pdf

Edited by Kelsicle

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3 minutes ago, Kelsicle said:

Hey all,

I’m hoping to get some feedback on my Stormcast list. Im new to the game and have built around the Soul Wars box and tried to expand it with the right hero units to support what I have. 

My list is attached.

To give a brief overview of My thought process: 

1. The obvious Aplha Strike option using 10 Evocators and Gav. Flexible as a deployed unit if I instead decide to Deep Strike the Balistae.

2. Plenty of Wounds and potential damage in the battle lines. The Sequitor units will be able to hold objectives and hold off enemy units for a bit of board control as well. 

3. Small unit of liberators to help with board control/holding back field objectives and denying enemy Deep Strike. 

4. Relictor included for translocation prayer for quick reinforcements if needed and to help with the Stormcasts poor movement.

5. Heralder included for the run and charge buff to help mostly the sequitors if they need to intercept or get somewhere a little faster. Also the Terrain horn is fun as hell.

6. Included the Balistae as my shooting option with a plan to either deploy in my backfield to shots into enemy battle line or to hold in reserve and deep strike against priority targets. 

7. Ordinator to buff the Balistae... this is the choice I am least confident with and would love to hear some thoughts! Is he worth bringing along or would I be better off investing points elsewhere? 

 

As as a separate question... what are the best uses for Castigators? I have so many of the damn things ! 

Thanks in advance! 

Stormcast.pdf

ordinator is not worth bringing if you have less than 3 ballista in your list....

Your list will have only 1 CP at the beginning of your first turn, so you still have to do a 6" charges for evocators, I don't like this idea personally.

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48 minutes ago, HammerOfSigmar said:

ordinator is not worth bringing if you have less than 3 ballista in your list....

Your list will have only 1 CP at the beginning of your first turn, so you still have to do a 6" charges for evocators, I don't like this idea personally.

What do you think would be a good alternative to the Ordinator in this case? I could include additional Liberators or a second Knight-Incantor or add A unit of Castigators and start with an extra CP for the charge.

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On 2/22/2019 at 10:03 PM, Marzillius said:

I played 3 Ballistas and an Ordinator in a tournament last weekend. They were a continual disappointment. I deep striked them along with the Ordinator within 18" of a priority target and usually took it out or heavily damaged it (they do hit really hard). But then they usually get charged by some chaff and have to shoot at them for the following 2-3 turns. Or they just get killed if they are outside of cover. Then they are soooooo slow and clunky. Only 3" move and each unit counts as only one model, so once they're deployed they aren't going anywhere, and they can't hold objectives very well. I found them to be a complete liability not worth 440 points. Use maybe one or two Ballistas as fire-support, but don't use an entire Ordinator battery. Not worth it.

I think it's a matter of where you place them. It helps if you have units that can clear/hold a drop zone for them, especially on an objective.  I've found myself more disappointed with two ballistas than the current 3 & LO which i'm running.

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Even though I've been the biggest advocate for it, I'm thinking of shifting away from the Longstrike Anvils build if the army shifts into more shooting, which it will, since Skaven are out, and people are realizing the Stormcast can shoot as well. Taking 9 Longstrikes into an enemy shooting list is a game of chicken - who can shoot off the other army's shooting first? Can they do it before the melee bricks get in?

Meanwhile, 3-4 Ballistas behind 20 Staunch Sequitors is way more flexible, if much less killy at a range. Not to mention the Ballista v Longstrike list is, imo heavy favored into the Ballistas. I'll experiment a bit and see how Skaven shakes out, but I can already forsee the changes I'd make.

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1 hour ago, Requizen said:

Even though I've been the biggest advocate for it, I'm thinking of shifting away from the Longstrike Anvils build if the army shifts into more shooting, which it will, since Skaven are out, and people are realizing the Stormcast can shoot as well. Taking 9 Longstrikes into an enemy shooting list is a game of chicken - who can shoot off the other army's shooting first? Can they do it before the melee bricks get in?

 Meanwhile, 3-4 Ballistas behind 20 Staunch Sequitors is way more flexible, if much less killy at a range. Not to mention the Ballista v Longstrike list is, imo heavy favored into the Ballistas. I'll experiment a bit and see how Skaven shakes out, but I can already forsee the changes I'd make.

This is where Im heading too. The quality is lower but the flexibility and durability is higher. A different Stormhost is probably better for them than Anvils, mind.

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34 minutes ago, The World Tree said:

This is where Im heading too. The quality is lower but the flexibility and durability is higher. A different Stormhost is probably better for them than Anvils, mind.

Mayb the astral templers could help +1 to hit monsters and plus 1 to wound command ability ? 

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1 hour ago, Twh30 said:

Mayb the astral templers could help +1 to hit monsters and plus 1 to wound command ability ? 

I think a lot of agressive magic to mess up backline is going to be important vs Skaven so Celestial Warbringers might be worth a shout. Take a SD who are already good against hordes and you’ve got the makings of a fun Magic cabal.  Or a Tauralon to fly over stuff with a Ballistae battery, although that’s a trade of +1 to cast vs one free spell.

Their free re-deployment could be quite instrumental in messing up their artillery placement as well. Think you’ll see more Liberators with Skaven around because people aren’t going to want to see anything more than their cheapest units  MW’d into oblivion by warmachines.

Edited by Nos

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4 hours ago, Twh30 said:

Mayb the astral templers could help +1 to hit monsters and plus 1 to wound command ability ? 

Definitely a good Stormhost for 4 ballistae + Ordinator in the current meta IMO. The big centrepiece models just get pasted...

Edited by Roark

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1 hour ago, Roark said:

Definitely a good Stormhost for 4 ballistae + Ordinator in the current meta IMO. The big centrepiece models just get pasted...

Have you look at pairing it with soulstrike brotherhood with say 12 castigators stopped in on a monster 24 shots -2 rend ? 2+  to hit 

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6 hours ago, Requizen said:

Even though I've been the biggest advocate for it, I'm thinking of shifting away from the Longstrike Anvils build if the army shifts into more shooting, which it will, since Skaven are out, and people are realizing the Stormcast can shoot as well. Taking 9 Longstrikes into an enemy shooting list is a game of chicken - who can shoot off the other army's shooting first? Can they do it before the melee bricks get in?

Anvils vs Skaven shooting seems to be heavily favoured for the Stormcast player, at least in my experience. Longstrikes outrange WLC (29" vs 27"), you can translocate to the spot you need to snipe whatever you need because Skaven have lousy board control, and 2 dispel scrolls stop the important spells (like combo mirrors). The real threat is Plagueclaws with their 34" threat range, but you can deep strike and/or Translocate into a good shooting position and Im not sure 4x Plagueclaw lists are a viable choice to go 5-0 in a tournament setting.

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On 2/22/2019 at 4:31 AM, Synidus said:

Here's a tweaked list that i made::

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Tempest Lords
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Lord-Aquilor (200)
- General
- Trait: Bonds of Noble Duty 
- Artefact: Patrician's Helm 
- Mount Trait: Aethereal Stalker
Lord-Ordinator (140)
Knight-Incantor (140)

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warblade & Shield
- 1x Grandblades
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warblade & Shield
- 1x Grandblades
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warblade & Shield
- 1x Grandblades

Units
6 x Vanguard-Palladors (400)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Starstrike Javelins
10 x Evocators (400)
- 5x Grandstaves
- Lore of Invigoration: Speed of Lightning

War Machines
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)

Endless Spells
Everblaze Comet (100)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 128

I know the point about having only one spellcaster to cast Everblaze, but unless i have a stardrake or tauralon (both of which i don't have) there's not much else i can do to increase my casting chances.

The ordinator, ballistas & evos will be deepstriking. While the Aquilor will be roaming and flanking with the palladors.

What do you guys think?


Thanks in advance

I've been running a very similar list for awhile.  I really like the Pallador and Lord-Aquilor models and am trying to make a list where I can use the.  The list is supr fun to play but my win/loss record is not great.  Lots of close games against good players though.  I use the same blocks of 10 Evocators and 6 Palladors with a Lord-Aquilor mostly there to move the Palladors around.  I go back and forth between Celestial Vindicators and Astral Templars.  With the Templars I've used 3-4 Ballista with an ordinator, I typically have 2 Ballista.  I've never used the Comet, but I'd like to try it.  Some thoughts on how the parts work:

Six Palladors hit really hard as Cellestial Vindicators when buffed (reroll ones to hit on charge and extra attack from command ability).  Without the command ability and reroll, they are usually disappointing.  Still good for getting a medium hitting unit in the backfield or at least forcing them to prepare for it.  I've been thinking of changing to two units of 3 when running as Astral Templars and just using them for disruption.

Dropping in Evocators doesn't really work if you don't have some way to buff the charge.  Even with Cogs (which I use sometimes) it still isn't really a great chance.  I've been using them with a Heraldor.  They work much better given a run and charge.  They do great work but tend to draw all the fire and die pretty quick.  It makes them tricky to use well because if you don't get the attack off on something useful, you end up wasting a lot of points.

I usually use two units of Hunter as battleline.  They aren't great but the shooting and coming it at 7 inches is good for disruption.  They're only 20 points more than liberators and otherwise serve the same function.

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