AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[Barnie25]

1 hour ago, Black Blade said:

I personally don't like it. At a 1k points a Stardrake feels like an all your eggs in one basket kinda thing which can really hurt you depending on the scenarios you'll be playing. It's a cool model but running him in anything less than a 2k point game is neither a wise nor fun decision in my opinion anyway. I'd rather (especially in this meta) drop him for a wizard of some type and buff up your liberators by combining them into a 10 man unit then taking either more shield guys or some Judicators preferably to threaten your opponents with. 

What type of wizard would be ideal?

Would this be better?

Lord Arcanum - 180

Lord Celestant - 100

 

10 Liberators - 2 Grandhammers - 200

5 Judicators - 160

3 Vanguard  Raptors  w/ Hurricane Crossbows - 140

3 Paladors - 200

 

Is such a list better? The lord Arcanum seems quite expensive, I am afraid that running 2 heroes is not enough as well. It does have a solid block of infantry with ranged back up and a mobile element.

[Prexxus]

4 hours ago, Black Blade said:

So I take it you will be running the Hammers of Sigmar Stormhost? I could advise some though I'm still fairly new myself, what other units do you have at your disposal?

I guess I'll be running that? Haha very, very new. I don't have many more complete units unfortunately. I got the soul wars box so evocators were not complete I have 3. Basically what I own is Soul Wars + gavriel + sequitor easy to build + judicators (10) and I do have a start collecting vanguard so 5 hunters 3 palladors 3 gryph hounds and lord Aquilor.

[Darkrich]

8 hours ago, ledha said:

she is way better than a knight zephyros, but if you have access to Malign Sorcery Items, a Knight Zephyros is better than her by a very long shot

Do you mean with a Sword of Judgement?

[PJetski]

Has anyone else realized Sequitors are not as good as they seemed at first? 

Against shooting they are exactly as durable as Liberators, but cost 20pt more.  In groups of 5 they lose the shields quickly and then die even faster. Theyre too expensive to run as a disposable screening unit. Every time my min sized units of 5 Sequitors die to shooting, or spells, or a Stonehorn charge, I think to myself "I really wish I brought Liberators and saved 20pt".

Im starting to think that the only time I would run Sequitors is in squads of 10+ to get value from a Castellant Lantern, or in a squad of 20 with Gavriel to get a huge deep strike charge and tie down the entire enemy army.

Given how expensive and tight our lists are, I think I would rather have 2x Lib + 1x Jud rather than 3x Seq as my battleline.

[Sev]

Everyone's talking about how 20 Seq are good ... idd, in units of 5, they're less impressive

[PJetski]

3 minutes ago, Sev said:

Everyone's talking about how 20 Seq are good ... idd, in units of 5, they're less impressive

20 models on 40mm bases is too big of a footprint. They seem really good until you get into a game and get double flanked and cant pile in.

Im falling out of love with Sequitors 

[JackStreicher]

13 minutes ago, PJetski said:

20 models on 40mm bases is too big of a footprint. They seem really good until you get into a game and get double flanked and cant pile in.

Im falling out of love with Sequitors 

10 Sequitors appear to be the Sweetspot concerning size. They‘ll pretty much kill anything because free Rerolls  ??‍♂️

I am still pretty sure that they should cost 140 points (anything is vulnerable to shooting btw)

Edited August 27, 2018 by JackStreicher

[Roark]

2 hours ago, PJetski said:

Against shooting they are exactly as durable as Liberators, but cost 20pt more.  In groups of 5 they lose the shields quickly and then die even faster. Theyre too expensive to run as a disposable screening unit.

You should read their rules on Aetheric Channeling (empower the shields = rerolls to save). Also, you can keep the shields as long as you like - to the last man if you want. Lastly, you should see what other armies get for 120pts.

Sequitors are extremely good value IMHO.

[Black Blade]

@Barnie25 The Knight Incantor is a much better pickup In my opinion for several reasons. That right there saves you 40 points. Everything else is either good or "fine if that's your thing" except the Palladors. If I take something that's 200 points and not battleline its gonna be Evocators. Or you could take Fulminators with the points you saved taking a Knight Wizard instead of the Lord. I usually take 3 or 4 heroes at 2k so you should be fine on a 4x4 playing 1000 points with only two. 

@Prexxus As far as I know to use Garviel you need the Hammers of Sigmar stormhost to be declared or his ability won't work. That means you have to take their trait and artefact too which are fine I guess but they need to go on your non Garviel hero. 

Edited August 27, 2018 by Black Blade

[Black Blade]

37 minutes ago, Roark said:

You should read their rules on Aetheric Channeling (empower the shields = rerolls to save). Also, you can keep the shields as long as you like - to the last man if you want. Lastly, you should see what other armies get for 120pts.

Sequitors are extremely good value IMHO.

I think they are alright at 120 up until 360 for 15. Then after that you get another five for 40 points which is what I think makes them crazy. Their discount should be 420 or 440 for 20 models instead of costing the same as liberators who I think should also be capped at 20. 

[Sev]

3 hours ago, PJetski said:

20 models on 40mm bases is too big of a footprint. They seem really good until you get into a game and get double flanked and cant pile in.

Well you don't pick 20 40mm bases and expect to hit with all of them.

20 Seqs = 9 Greatmaces = what you want to hit with
Give these guys the reroll hit, reroll wound, reroll save.

Why 20?

15->20 = free (40pts :x)
11 Seqs acting as "health buffer" before you start losing your Greatmaces

... now if you still don't like them, you got 10 evoc for the same price

 

[schwabbele]

11 hours ago, PJetski said:

20 models on 40mm bases is too big of a footprint. They seem really good until you get into a game and get double flanked and cant pile in.

Im falling out of love with Sequitors 

Hmm could you sketch this? Shouldn’t that be solveable with smart model removal? I would actually love having them flanked, means i can lock up 2 units. 

 

Edit: found this: https://aos-tactics.com/2017/01/17/getting-the-most-out-of-the-charge/

However I don't see a issue here, the rules don't force me to fully pile in ( as close or closer to nearest model )  I could still get more in combat and maintain cohesion. 

Edited August 28, 2018 by schwabbele

[The Wanderer]

Sequitors in a unit of 20 can deal with just about anything, and survive at least 2 rounds of combat even against nasty stuff. I played 1x20 and 2x10 at the weekend and I'm honestly trying to figure out how to switch to 2x20 and 1x5. They don't work as a deepstrike though but that job should be reserved for Evocators anyway.

[Peegee]

13 hours ago, PJetski said:

They seem really good until you get into a game and get double flanked and cant pile in.

That's why Heraldor is ace (aka must-have) with 20 Sequi. Retreat and Charge as soon as you get stuck. You can also run and charge if you need to and the Thunderblast is always a nice bonus.

[ledha]

16 hours ago, Darkrich said:

Do you mean with a Sword of Judgement?

even the item giving her +1 flat damage is enough. She will be 3+/3+/-1/2 against EVERYTHING while Neaeve have dmg 2 only against heroes.

[PJetski]

14 hours ago, Roark said:

You should read their rules on Aetheric Channeling (empower the shields = rerolls to save). Also, you can keep the shields as long as you like - to the last man if you want. Lastly, you should see what other armies get for 120pts.

Sequitors are extremely good value IMHO.

You should re-read their rules on Aetheric Channeling. You empower at the start of the combat phase and it only lasts for that phase. If you have been rerolling saves against shooting then you have been cheating.

If you are keeping shields to the last man then you are losing greatmaces, which is the main reason you are taking the Sequitors over Liberators. The shields are ablative wounds, but they're not very effective in small squads of 5 dudes (which is what I have been primarily discussing).

3 hours ago, Peegee said:

That's why Heraldor is ace (aka must-have) with 20 Sequi. Retreat and Charge as soon as you get stuck. You can also run and charge if you need to and the Thunderblast is always a nice bonus.

Heraldor is great but I think I would rather use that ability on something like a Stardrake or Dracolines or Fulminators. There will be situations where a huge blob of 20 sequitors may not even have enough space to perform a retreat because their footprint is so large.

[Carnelian]

Hey dudes, I've got a test game tonight for Angelcore playing Astral Templars instead of Hallowed Knights and I've lefy Mt book at home. Can someone remind me whether the Astral Templars command ability is used in the hero phase or is used at any time? I I don't want to cheat my Opponent. 

Thanks a bunch

[Prexxus]

17 hours ago, Black Blade said:

@Barnie25

@Prexxus As far as I know to use Garviel you need the Hammers of Sigmar stormhost to be declared or his ability won't work. That means you have to take their trait and artefact too which are fine I guess but they need to go on your non Garviel hero. 

Yeah I just read up on it and I'm starting to understand much more.  I'm still at a loss though. I've been trying to understand exactly how Gavriel gives you a guaranteed charge and how to use it properly. His rules say he adds +3 to a charge roll to anyone within 9" and I read somewhere that this stacks with the army alliegance ability so it brings it to +6. 

I believe the trick is to move him up and deep strike sequitors into his range and then charge them?

I guess I'm just struggling to understand why +6 makes this a guaranteed  charge when reading the charging rules the only thing that implies a fail is if you don't end up within 1/2 inch of a enemy model. 

Sorry for the big noobiness I'm pretty clueless. Hopefully after my first game next week I'll have a much firmer grasp on the rules and tactics of the game. 

[Gottkaiser]

12 minutes ago, Prexxus said:

Yeah I just read up on it and I'm starting to understand much more.  I'm still at a loss though. I've been trying to understand exactly how Gavriel gives you a guaranteed charge and how to use it properly. His rules say he adds +3 to a charge roll to anyone within 9" and I read somewhere that this stacks with the army alliegance ability so it brings it to +6. 

Sorry for the big noobiness I'm pretty clueless. Hopefully after my first game next week I'll have a much firmer grasp on the rules and tactics of the game. 

Everybody has to start, and that's what Forums are for
You can stack Gavriels Command Ability as long as you have enough command points, so it's not to uncommen to start with 3 command points, which would allow you to scion in and give everyone in 12" (not 9", that's the distance to the enemy) an automatic charge success.

[Requizen]

13 minutes ago, Prexxus said:

Yeah I just read up on it and I'm starting to understand much more.  I'm still at a loss though. I've been trying to understand exactly how Gavriel gives you a guaranteed charge and how to use it properly. His rules say he adds +3 to a charge roll to anyone within 9" and I read somewhere that this stacks with the army alliegance ability so it brings it to +6. 

I believe the trick is to move him up and deep strike sequitors into his range and then charge them?

I guess I'm just struggling to understand why +6 makes this a guaranteed  charge when reading the charging rules the only thing that implies a fail is if you don't end up within 1/2 inch of a enemy model. 

Sorry for the big noobiness I'm pretty clueless. Hopefully after my first game next week I'll have a much firmer grasp on the rules and tactics of the game. 

Each use of his command ability gives +3" to the charge for everything within 12" of him. You can use his Command Ability multiple times as long as you have the Command Points, so for 3 Points you can get 3" + 3" + 3" = 9" extra on to your charge. Considering you can Scions of the Storm 9" away, this will guarantee your charge. Using it twice gets you 6", which means you need to roll anything except double 1s on the charge (not counting any debuffs). That's all but guaranteed in many eyes.

2 hours ago, Carnelian said:

Hey dudes, I've got a test game tonight for Angelcore playing Astral Templars instead of Hallowed Knights and I've lefy Mt book at home. Can someone remind me whether the Astral Templars command ability is used in the hero phase or is used at any time? I I don't want to cheat my Opponent. 

Thanks a bunch

Start of the Combat Phase. Wholly within 9" of a Hero or wholly within 18" of general: +1 wound against HERO targets.

[PJetski]

What do you guys think about the Ballista "core"? 

4x Ballista, 1x Ordinator, 1x Azyros

Dropping into play to fire off 16 shots at 4+rr1... expected 22 wounds at Rend-2. Is it worth 640pt?

[Prexxus]

2 hours ago, Requizen said:

Each use of his command ability gives +3" to the charge for everything within 12" of him. You can use his Command Ability multiple times as long as you have the Command Points, so for 3 Points you can get 3" + 3" + 3" = 9" extra on to your charge. Considering you can Scions of the Storm 9" away, this will guarantee your charge. Using it twice gets you 6", which means you need to roll anything except double 1s on the charge (not counting any debuffs). That's all but guaranteed in many eyes.

 

Thanks this makes a lot more sense to me now.  I feel like this probably won't be used in my first game of escalation concidering its only 750 pts and you can only scion in half your units. Unfortunately my first game I'll be running 10 sequitors and 5 judicators which makes it impossible for me to scion in the group of 10 seq's. 

[Mark Williams]

40 minutes ago, PJetski said:

What do you guys think about the Ballista "core"? 

4x Ballista, 1x Ordinator, 1x Azyros

Dropping into play to fire off 16 shots at 4+rr1... expected 22 wounds at Rend-2. Is it worth 640pt?

It’s quite strong but beware of Nighthaunt. Also, make sure you kill whatever you land close to, or you’ll lose it.

[Freejack02]

1 hour ago, PJetski said:

What do you guys think about the Ballista "core"? 

4x Ballista, 1x Ordinator, 1x Azyros

Dropping into play to fire off 16 shots at 4+rr1... expected 22 wounds at Rend-2. Is it worth 640pt?

It's a lot of points, but will be worthwhile if you can target down one of the big heroes before they can act (Alarielle, Gordrakk, Archaon, etc). The Azyros will more than likely get deleted, hopefully you drop the other 5 into cover. My biggest issue is that it eats 6 Azyr drops - which means you need 6 others deployed on the field to allow for Scions. That's no deepstriking Sequitors/Evocators/Fulminators - so I question whether the ballista battery is enough firepower to justify spending all your alpha strike on. 

Anyone tried it in practice?

[Barnie25]

What type of list makes the most use out of a Stardrake? Is the Templar version competitive now that is has become so 'cheap'?