AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion

[Trickflo]

Sorry if this has already been asked but can only 1 tree stomp now? The wording seems slightly ambiguous as to wether stomp is a rampage or just using it stops you from using a rampage.

[Freejack02]

10 minutes ago, Trickflo said:

Sorry if this has already been asked but can only 1 tree stomp now? The wording seems slightly ambiguous as to wether stomp is a rampage or just using it stops you from using a rampage.

Yes, stomp is a monstrous rampage now - so unfortunately limited to 1. 

[Trickflo]

That's kind of what I figured seems somewhat unfortunate to have an option to run treelord army now and nerf them like that.

[lastlostboy]

2 hours ago, Trickflo said:

That's kind of what I figured seems somewhat unfortunate to have an option to run treelord army now and nerf them like that.

Having multiple of the same unit not overwriting the core rules for their special rules isn't exactly a nerf but I know what you mean.
I think one one hand the rule or better the triggering mechanism is pretty weak. 3+ for an effect that needs a resource - a Monstrous Rampage "charge" in this case - isn't good.
On the other hand the special rule comes with the resource to fire itself. With that 5th Monstrous Rampage you have the option to fire five Monstrous Rampages per turn instead of four. That's pretty good.

So yeah, it might not be perfect but it's a buff. And overall a nice buff.

Let's talk fae archers.
I'm a little disappointed by them. I love their models and got myself 10 already which I intend to play. But with their "high" points cost, no option to make them battleline and little buff possibilities it's not that easy. (But hey, my 1st and 2nd edition sylvaneth lists where both Tree-Revenant-heavy just because I like the models so I'm pretty practised in artificially restricting myself...)

The easiest things I can think of is buffing their attacks with an Arch-Revenant. Solid, it buffs their dmg outbut with 50% especially it's one of the few options to buff unmodified-6-abilities. Ofc I give most likely the KH buff of the Arch-Revenant up because there won't be any KH in the harassed flanks where one would use them.
The other buff is Treesong. Not that big but it's a way to not "waste" the buff on them because it effects all other units in range as well. So instead of buffing the archers it's more like buffing some units in choke points and coincidentally having the archers using the buff too.
Treesong only works with melee attacks... Oh, come on!

A last strategy I thought of is using them as shields at the frontline for other units you don't want to get charged. You can trigger Unleash Hell and fall back. But if they don't make it or get shot down it was a very, very costly shield...

Okay guys, make my fae archers work, or at least not suck. Go!

Edited June 22, 2022 by lastlostboy

[Trickflo]

With 2 inch coherency a squad of 5 can block a pretty large area, could make a decent screen that has a chance to not die doing it but like you said probably overcosted for that purpose. I think they're biggest problem overall is if your opponent has any shooting they would melt to that so any effective use of them would just make them a target anyways. I do love the models and hope theres some synergy I'm missing, don't have book in hand yet just watched a page by page breakdown of it.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Trickflo

[Arzalyn]

1 hour ago, lastlostboy said:

The easiest things I can think of is buffing their attacks with an Arch-Revenant. Solid, it buffs their dmg outbut with 50% especially it's one of the few options to buff unmodified-6-abilities. Ofc I give most likely the KH buff of the Arch-Revenant up because there won't be any KH in the harassed flanks where one would use them.

Sadly the archrev CA is restricted to the combat phase, so this don't work either...

The only buff we have that work on them is the heartwood +1 to hit, which you can get with AoA anyway and don't help a lot with their damage. To me they fell a little similar to the lancers in their role. They can shoot something, deal some wound to weaken the target and them "runa away" if the enemy gets close by. They trade the lancers resilience (and buffing potential) with ranged projection + build-in running rules.

You could use an unit of 10 to have a semi-reliable foot hero killer, but it may get a little expensive. I find a little hard to include more than a single unit of them, as you probably want to use unleash hell with all of them when needed and only one can do so each turn. So far I been including them to support the Warsong/Wych bomb, as they can teleport to the wood you set up, finish off some important target and probably get way (just beware of shooting units) and in some Dreadwood lists focused on mortal wounds. They have a place in the army, I just don't think it's a central one as the Lancers/Seekers/Kurnoths for some lists.

[Jaskier]

A neat trick for them is they can shoot out of Wyldwoods without getting shot back, though obviously that's reliant on your target of choice being close enough to do so - and with only a 12" range, that's by no means guaranteed.

[lastlostboy]

1 hour ago, Arzalyn said:

Sadly the archrev CA is restricted to the combat phase, so this don't work either...

Omg. 

One one hand: okay, so I don't waste the KH Aura on the Arch-Revenant. But then: almost no buff for a new unit in the entire book. I mean, we have two shooting units, so who designs the Arch-Rev CA and thinks: "oh, wow, better make it melee only, so the mass of shooting units with all their other shooting buffs don't get too strong..."

 

1 hour ago, Arzalyn said:

You could use an unit of 10 to have a semi-reliable foot hero killer, but it may get a little expensive. I find a little hard to include more than a single unit of them, as you probably want to use unleash hell with all of them when needed and only one can do so each turn.

They have a place in the army, I just don't think it's a central one as the Lancers/Seekers/Kurnoths for some lists.

At this point I thought about 2x5 archers and 2x5 Tree-Revenants as harrassing teleporting units grabbing objectives when you need them.
But first, MSU are harder to buff with CAs, that includes the free Tree-Rev CA and second 660 points are a lot for just looking good and doing minimal disturbing stuff.

Shame.

[Arzalyn]

Just a heads up, our new book is on the app already, it should make it easier to list build!

1 hour ago, lastlostboy said:

At this point I thought about 2x5 archers and 2x5 Tree-Revenants as harrassing teleporting units grabbing objectives when you need them.
But first, MSU are harder to buff with CAs, that includes the free Tree-Rev CA and second 660 points are a lot for just looking good and doing minimal disturbing stuff.

With the lack of rend on their attacks I think getting a extra attack by doing 2x5 units can actually be more significant in the end. Using two units is doable, if you keep in mind you will not be able to retreat with both of them. If you use a more aggressive unit that can hold something in battle for them (Seekers could fit this role), you may not even have to worry about this too much. Now that I wrote that, I imagine they could do some work in Harvestboon as well, if you try to be really aggressive with the lancers/seekers that gossamid should be able to help weaken whenever you need before the bugs fight.

[Gitzdee]

Just want to say that the old Branchwraith is already removed from the app.

Edit: Still cant ally wanderers.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Iksdee

[Satyrical Sophist]

1 hour ago, Iksdee said:

Just want to say that the old Branchwraith is already removed from the app.

Edit: Still cant ally wanderers.

Cities of Sigmar is on the ally list isn't it? That includes Wanderers 

[Mirage8112]

7 hours ago, lastlostboy said:

A last strategy I thought of is using them as shields at the frontline for other units you don't want to get charged. You can trigger Unleash Hell and fall back. But if they don't make it or get shot down it was a very, very costly shield...

 

5 hours ago, Jaskier said:

A neat trick for them is they can shoot out of Wyldwoods without getting shot back, though obviously that's reliant on your target of choice being close enough to do so - and with only a 12" range, that's by no means guaranteed.

Honestly, these guys are tailor-made bodyguards for the Lady of the Vines. 2” coherency means they can pretty much effectively cover a wide area in front of her. If they get charged, they shoot and scoot. They count as being within range of a Wyldwood so the risk of being shot is pretty minimal.

If you’re really concerned about them failing their fall back roll, you can put a unit of revenants in front of them. A double bubble wrap isn’t a terrible idea, because A) anything would be stupid to charge them in the first place, and B) if you didn’t use gossamids you’d have to use revenants anyway. C) with her 5+ ward spell both units benefit and stand a good chance of surviving. And finally D) if your opponent isn’t taking the bait, revenants aren’t forced to stick around like dryads would be, they can just waypipe off and do something useful. 

[Jaskier]

I'm pretty sure the Lady of Vines' aura would not block LoS for the same reason it doesn't provide you with cover. It'd be nice if it did but I don't think that's how it works. 

[Arzalyn]

Yeah she only help with letting we fade though her, providing the season of war and turning on the buffs Dryads and Durthu have. She just check the box of "is this units wholly within 6" of a wood?" for those effects.

[Gitzdee]

1 hour ago, Satyrical Sophist said:

Cities of Sigmar is on the ally list isn't it? That includes Wanderers 

True but i cant include them in a list on the app.

[Mirage8112]

Oh for sure. Even still most everything still applies. You’ll just have to be mindful of shutting down your opponents firing lanes with WW placement 

Edited June 22, 2022 by Mirage8112

[acr0ssth3p0nd]

3 hours ago, Satyrical Sophist said:

Cities of Sigmar is on the ally list isn't it? That includes Wanderers 

Yep, just put some Wild Riders in a 600 point PtG list. Hard to fit a lot of our good stuff in 600 points, but Wild Riders are a nice little unit that functions like mini-Spiteriders. And with the new Overgrown terrain mechanic, it makes it less risky to get them in close as a supporting unit in front line fights.

[mmimzie]

9 hours ago, Iksdee said:

True but i cant include them in a list on the app.

Send an email to GW they are suprizingly responsive to such input.

Edited June 23, 2022 by mmimzie

[Baron Klatz]

On 6/22/2022 at 10:13 AM, Iksdee said:

True but i cant include them in a list on the app.

If you send a response then also mention they’re missing their Fyreslayers allies right now too.

The Ironbarks and Sylvaneth of Aqshy need their duardin friends. 🔥🌳

(the better Mortal Wounds output and Warded infantry/Magmadroth is useful too)

Edited June 24, 2022 by Baron Klatz

[Warbossironteef]

I'm starting to really like the idea of Gossamids paired with Kurnoths. It's super expensive but I honestly dont see how any melee army deals with it if you play well. They screen, making charges almost impossible and your Hunters are always set up to counter charge.

If you use Warsinger everything moves so fast, even Hunters going 8. Of course some shooting armies will be able to blast the Gossamids away and it's not cheap, but they seem so bleeping good in certain matchups.

Heartwood – The Reaping
Warsong – 305 – Warsinger, Gem
Arch Rev -120
6x Kurnoth with Scythes – 500
5x Tree Revs – 110 - Expert Conquerors 
5x Tree Revs – 110 - Expert Conquerors 
5x Gossamids – 220
3x Lancers – 210 – Bounty Hunters 
3x Lancers – 210 – Bounty Hunters
3x Lancers – 210 – Bounty Hunters
1995/2000

[Lord Krungharr]

I see the app is updated now, no Branchlady to summon Dryads.  That's unfortunate.  Hoping we get Seed Points or something to summon units somehow?  Or does the healing make up for that?

Treelord thing to prevent pile-ins til the end of a turn could prove useful somehow.  This army will take some thinking.

[Arzalyn]

1 hour ago, Warbossironteef said:

I'm starting to really like the idea of Gossamids paired with Kurnoths. It's super expensive but I honestly dont see how any melee army deals with it if you play well. They screen, making charges almost impossible and your Hunters are always set up to counter charge.

If you use Warsinger everything moves so fast, even Hunters going 8. Of course some shooting armies will be able to blast the Gossamids away and it's not cheap, but they seem so bleeping good in certain matchups.

Heartwood – The Reaping
Warsong – 305 – Warsinger, Gem
Arch Rev -120
6x Kurnoth with Scythes – 500
5x Tree Revs – 110 - Expert Conquerors 
5x Tree Revs – 110 - Expert Conquerors 
5x Gossamids – 220
3x Lancers – 210 – Bounty Hunters 
3x Lancers – 210 – Bounty Hunters
3x Lancers – 210 – Bounty Hunters
1995/2000

I like your lists, lancers really benefit from the bounty hunters, I just not sure how common GVs will be from the bonus to be relevant. In those match ups do you plan to use them to pin/weaken some targets? Wouldn't making the arch rev your general better for warsing? The Warsong bigger base gives a higher area, but I imagine you wouldn't want to be too agressive with him if you want to keep the cast bonus. The arch rev has a really good mobility, which could compensate her smaller size and I imagine you will want to keep her with the kurnoths any way.

[acr0ssth3p0nd]

Should we think about getting a 3.0 sub-board like the other Order tomes?

[Warbossironteef]

7 hours ago, Arzalyn said:

I like your lists, lancers really benefit from the bounty hunters, I just not sure how common GVs will be from the bonus to be relevant. In those match ups do you plan to use them to pin/weaken some targets? Wouldn't making the arch rev your general better for warsing? The Warsong bigger base gives a higher area, but I imagine you wouldn't want to be too agressive with him if you want to keep the cast bonus. The arch rev has a really good mobility, which could compensate her smaller size and I imagine you will want to keep her with the kurnoths any way.

Good news about using Lancers is with warsinger they move 17inchss so you don't have to play too aggro with Warsong. Then he hangs out with hunters until its time for them to push out. I prefer making my general a bit more tanky than Arch. Arch actually has to get aggro the turn you charge with your hunters to make sure he can stay in range for wound buff and command ability. 

I don't know how the meta will shape out. I think most armies will take a few GV. I need to get some more games in with lancers/Seekers. I love both and might make sure I have at least 1 unit if Seekers in every list. 

[Tizianolol]

The is a bug in age of sigmar app, we cant see profile of lancers and seekers:(