AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion

[Jaskier]

1 minute ago, acr0ssth3p0nd said:

Someone in the Rumor thread pointed out to me that, functionally, this kinda already exists, in that having an enemy unit within 3" of one of your Wyldwoods often means that you can't place a unit more than 9" away from it while still being within teleport distance of the wood.

So, yeah, I'm inclined to agree that the additional number of starting teleport destinations through overgrown terrain, combined with the teleport range now expanded from 6" to 9", is overall a net positive. Hopefully it also becomes easier to plop down more overgrown terrain and/or Wyldwoods as the game progresses.

And we haven't even seen the Seasons of War!

This was my thinking exactly, it will only affect larger terrain pieces - which we couldn't teleport to before anyway, so it's less a negative and more just something for Sylvaneth players and their opponents to be aware of. 

[Azamar]

5 hours ago, Jaskier said:

This was my thinking exactly, it will only affect larger terrain pieces - which we couldn't teleport to before anyway, so it's less a negative and more just something for Sylvaneth players and their opponents to be aware of. 

Fully agree as well- I like that it gives some counter play with large terrain but won’t affect placement around the wyldwood much (especially the single trees). 
 

Though if walk the spirit paths for the tree lords remain unchanged (Durthu’s new scroll is on the app already, and as far as I can tell, the teleport is the same as before except overgrown terrain is included) that does not have the same restriction. Might be a good way to clear the path if there’s a single model tagging terrain.

[Fellman]

From Nezzhil in rumor thread

Sylvaneth Battletome

The Wyldwoods will act like spell portals

GHB / Battlescroll
Dragon hero phase move goes away
Thunder lizards scaly skin also goes awayLivll
Living City Strike then Melt Away must finish the movement outside 9" of any enemy

Lumineth Battletome
Sentinels 24" reach, need LOS and lambent is changed though I dont know how
Wind Spirits no longer move in opponents phase
Stonemage can let the Stoneguard do MWs on 5s and 6s

[Domize]

27 minutes ago, Fellman said:

From Nezzhil in rumor thread

Sylvaneth Battletome

The Wyldwoods will act like spell portals

GHB / Battlescroll
Dragon hero phase move goes away
Thunder lizards scaly skin also goes awayLivll
Living City Strike then Melt Away must finish the movement outside 9" of any enemy

Lumineth Battletome
Sentinels 24" reach, need LOS and lambent is changed though I dont know how
Wind Spirits no longer move in opponents phase
Stonemage can let the Stoneguard do MWs on 5s and 6s

If true, this would go a long way towards deterring our opponent from shutting down our teleportation by staying within 3" of our Wyldwoods.

[Landohammer]

11 hours ago, acr0ssth3p0nd said:

Someone in the Rumor thread pointed out to me that, functionally, this kinda already exists, in that having an enemy unit within 3" of one of your Wyldwoods often means that you can't place a unit more than 9" away from it while still being within teleport distance of the wood.

So, yeah, I'm inclined to agree that the additional number of starting teleport destinations through overgrown terrain, combined with the teleport range now expanded from 6" to 9", is overall a net positive. Hopefully it also becomes easier to plop down more overgrown terrain and/or Wyldwoods as the game progresses.

And we haven't even seen the Seasons of War!

I think the weird caveate about 3" could become relevant if they let wyldwoods become 3-6 terrain pieces like they originally could. A forest thats 12" wide could be teleported to even if an opponent was with 3". 

 

 

2 hours ago, Fellman said:

From Nezzhil in rumor thread

Sylvaneth Battletome

The Wyldwoods will act like spell portals

GHB / Battlescroll
Dragon hero phase move goes away
Thunder lizards scaly skin also goes awayLivll
Living City Strike then Melt Away must finish the movement outside 9" of any enemy

Lumineth Battletome
Sentinels 24" reach, need LOS and lambent is changed though I dont know how
Wind Spirits no longer move in opponents phase
Stonemage can let the Stoneguard do MWs on 5s and 6s

I love all these changes but any idea of the source? Sounds a bit wish-listy to me but hugely helpful if true. 

[xking]

On 5/26/2022 at 1:04 PM, Lord Krungharr said:

Did the tome come out yet?  Wondering if I'll still have viable use of a Treelord Ancient and Durthu within my Living City army.  Guess it will also depend on the new points costs too.  If the Ancient can still drop a Wyldwoods, and somehow cast another spell for another one, then I can have some tree mass-transit within the Living City.  

Really?  Thought they were aelf spirits who inhabit the trees and make them walk or something.  Isn't Alarielle an aelvish queen?  Thought she had the old spear of that Orion Woodelf King from the Old World.

No, they are nature spirits, more like fey. They have nothing to do with aelf souls, as per AoS lore. ( Alarielle is the only thing that can be called an elf because of her past )

Edited May 28, 2022 by xking

[Laststand]

Sorry for sneaking into your thread but I don't suppose anyone is sitting on some unwanted echoes of doom skaven they don't want? Stormvermin + Deathmaster?

[Freejack02]

8 hours ago, Laststand said:

Sorry for sneaking into your thread but I don't suppose anyone is sitting on some unwanted echoes of doom skaven they don't want? Stormvermin + Deathmaster?

Thinking like a rat, I like it. You'll do well. 

[azmarus]

new rumor about new tome:

Some sylvaneth stuffs

The dragonflies move really fast and hit like a truck. They are a bit fragile so you want to use the teleport ability to help protect them.

Kurnoth hunters are great, all types.

Woods still have some stuff with Los blocking and owning the actual kit is still beneficial Vs just using the overgrown rule.

Tree revs can still deepstrike.

The whole philosophy is to make the sylvaneth a lot more dynamic rather than just sitting in the woods. Think skirmishers that attack fast and then vanish.

 

[KingGatorboy]

I surprised nobody made a 3.0 page for us yet

[Freejack02]

Any release date on the new tome?

[Arzalyn]

34 minutes ago, KingGatorboy said:

I surprised nobody made a 3.0 page for us yet

Its better to wait the new tome release, as we will get a sub forum just for Sylvaneth.

[Jaskier]

No talk about this rumor yet? They seem very good like the Gossamids; a high damage glass cannon that relies on Sylvaneth tricks (i.e. teleport after fight, hiding in woods to block line of sight for shooting) to survive. I like the look of these quite a bit. 

"Spiterider lancers - 225 for 3

3 wounds

Save 4+

Bravery 6

16” move

Lance/2/3+/3+/-1/2 - extra rend and damage on charge

Fangs and claws/2/3+/3+/-1/d3

Poison sting/1/2+/2+/-1/d6, d6MW on hit of 6

 

180 for alternative build, fight worse, but resurrect d3 models or heal d6 wounds"

[Alpidur]

Live this new rumors! If they are true, new sylvaneth is very awesome but they still change the fight method in the tabletop

[Abstract_duck]

Very strong, it seems: Charge in, deal damage & fade away. 

[Domize]

Do we think we'll keep the Forest Spirits reserve battle trait? Since they've increased the range of the other Wyldwood abilities to wholly within 9", if they do the same to the Forest Spirits ability, it would mean we could keep Alarielle hidden off the table for any potential turn 1 shooting. 

Also - as a rules question. Alarielle's summoning, Forest Spirits and Walk the Spirit Paths all happen at the end of the movement phase. Do we get to pick which order they happen in? Say, could you bring in Alarielle, use her summon, then teleport them away, since they all happen at the end of movement phase?

[Landohammer]

3 hours ago, Domize said:

Do we think we'll keep the Forest Spirits reserve battle trait? Since they've increased the range of the other Wyldwood abilities to wholly within 9", if they do the same to the Forest Spirits ability, it would mean we could keep Alarielle hidden off the table for any potential turn 1 shooting. 

Also - as a rules question. Alarielle's summoning, Forest Spirits and Walk the Spirit Paths all happen at the end of the movement phase. Do we get to pick which order they happen in? Say, could you bring in Alarielle, use her summon, then teleport them away, since they all happen at the end of movement phase?

Nighthaunt had their deepstrike reworked significantly but its still there. I don't see us losing ours, but i have always seen ours as a bit of a liability due to opponents being able to potentially deny the deepstrike with proper movement. I would be REALLY hesitant to put Alarielle in reserve, especially if the 3" rule also applies to deepstrike. I never see it used in competitive play. No real loss if it goes IMHO. 

My understanding is that active player determines the order of things that happen simultaneously. But under the current rules, the teleport is "instead of moving" and our summoned units usually say "can't move again that phase".  Not sure how it will work in new book but I think we have all the pieces to figure that out now.  

 

[Domize]

1 hour ago, Landohammer said:

Nighthaunt had their deepstrike reworked significantly but its still there. I don't see us losing ours, but i have always seen ours as a bit of a liability due to opponents being able to potentially deny the deepstrike with proper movement. I would be REALLY hesitant to put Alarielle in reserve, especially if the 3" rule also applies to deepstrike. I never see it used in competitive play. No real loss if it goes IMHO. 

My understanding is that active player determines the order of things that happen simultaneously. But under the current rules, the teleport is "instead of moving" and our summoned units usually say "can't move again that phase".  Not sure how it will work in new book but I think we have all the pieces to figure that out now.  

 

I'd normally agree, until I had my Alarielle one-shot off the table by some longstrike raptors turn 1.... However, if we start the game with 3 overgrown terrain pieces, and potentially an additional wyldwood (and potentially can summon in a second), it would be quite a task to block out every single piece of terrain. And you can usually tell if your opponent has the means to do so I guess.

 

I think the new "Walk the Hidden Paths" allows you to move then teleport – nothing about instead of moving. So should work fine I would guess.

[Landohammer]

26 minutes ago, Domize said:

I'd normally agree, until I had my Alarielle one-shot off the table by some longstrike raptors turn 1.... However, if we start the game with 3 overgrown terrain pieces, and potentially an additional wyldwood (and potentially can summon in a second), it would be quite a task to block out every single piece of terrain. And you can usually tell if your opponent has the means to do so I guess.

 

I think the new "Walk the Hidden Paths" allows you to move then teleport – nothing about instead of moving. So should work fine I would guess.

Thats a pretty good example of when deepstriking is the lesser evil, but vs SC you would also have the potential of them deepstriking or charging into your woods and just shutting down your deepstrike altogether. At least if they are shooting you have a chance to survive. Actually if you pop finest hour and AOD she should live even with the double tap. At least for 1 turn 😭

I have come to recognize 2.5 Alarielle as maybe-not-quite-as-terrible-as-I-originally-thought but she is easily still the worst god-tier character. I am REALLY looking forward to her new warscroll. Its definitely solid. Hopefully the points are reasonable. 

 

[KingGatorboy]

I have my doubts about the spiterider leaks. For example, we’ve already seen a picture of the Alarielle warscroll, so it’s not like the warscrolls aren’t already out there. Second, why not include the stats of the seekers or whatever they are called? Third, no specification on what kinds of models it can resurrect. In the past our revival only did d3 for our unconditional battleline units, and 1 for other units. D3 kurnoth hunters would have never gone through playtesting and not been considered too op considering alarielle can’t even summon 3 without losing the ability for the rest of the game.

 

When will we get more solid proof? Why did the pictures stop coming in?

[TheGrayKing]

1 hour ago, KingGatorboy said:

I have my doubts about the spiterider leaks. For example, we’ve already seen a picture of the Alarielle warscroll, so it’s not like the warscrolls aren’t already out there. Second, why not include the stats of the seekers or whatever they are called? Third, no specification on what kinds of models it can resurrect. In the past our revival only did d3 for our unconditional battleline units, and 1 for other units. D3 kurnoth hunters would have never gone through playtesting and not been considered too op considering alarielle can’t even summon 3 without losing the ability for the rest of the game.

 

When will we get more solid proof? Why did the pictures stop coming in?

I think the d3 resurrection will be for 1 and 2 wound models so you can get back your Dryads and Revenants and that they'll get rid of the resurrect 1 model.

[Popisdead]

On 5/26/2022 at 12:37 AM, xking said:

Sylvaneth are not aelves, but I understand what you mean.

Oddly this week GW is calling them Aelves regarding the 5 short stories they are selling.

On 5/27/2022 at 1:02 PM, xking said:

No, they are nature spirits, more like fey. They have nothing to do with aelf souls, as per AoS lore. ( Alarielle is the only thing that can be called an elf because of her past )

This is correct.  The only thing that tied them was Revenants imaged themselves to look like "protectors of the woods from ages past" or something akin to that.  So people assumed they were dead aelf souls brought back.  

[xking]

28 minutes ago, Popisdead said:

Oddly this week GW is calling them Aelves regarding the 5 short stories they are selling.

This is correct.  The only thing that tied them was Revenants imaged themselves to look like "protectors of the woods from ages past" or something akin to that.  So people assumed they were dead aelf souls brought back.  

They said Aelvish fiction. But warhammer-community tends to get details about the lore wrong all the time.   Such as them saying the lady of vines was created at the beginning of the realmgate wars. This is incorrect, she was made in the Age of Myth.

[Jaskier]

6 hours ago, KingGatorboy said:

I have my doubts about the spiterider leaks. For example, we’ve already seen a picture of the Alarielle warscroll, so it’s not like the warscrolls aren’t already out there. Second, why not include the stats of the seekers or whatever they are called? Third, no specification on what kinds of models it can resurrect. In the past our revival only did d3 for our unconditional battleline units, and 1 for other units. D3 kurnoth hunters would have never gone through playtesting and not been considered too op considering alarielle can’t even summon 3 without losing the ability for the rest of the game.

 

When will we get more solid proof? Why did the pictures stop coming in?

This isn't really unusual. It could well be a different leaker to the one who posted the photo. There's no reason to believe or not believe it over any other rumor we've seen - and mind you, we have a very credible rumor about how our Wyldwoods work (counting as a spell portal) from a different source, and that didn't have any photo evidence either. We'll know soon enough either way; all I can say is the rumored profile fits snugly alongside the Gossamid one so I'm inclined to think it's probably accurate. 

Edited June 1, 2022 by Jaskier

[Landohammer]

On 5/31/2022 at 8:39 PM, Jaskier said:

This isn't really unusual. It could well be a different leaker to the one who posted the photo. There's no reason to believe or not believe it over any other rumor we've seen - and mind you, we have a very credible rumor about how our Wyldwoods work (counting as a spell portal) from a different source, and that didn't have any photo evidence either. We'll know soon enough either way; all I can say is the rumored profile fits snugly alongside the Gossamid one so I'm inclined to think it's probably accurate. 

Agreed. The profile seems to fit the gossamid theme of extremely high burst damage and speed coupled with low survivability and high point cost. 

Reminds me of the old wildriders in 8th ed fantasy. Fragile and hard to manuever safely, but for god sakes you must prevent them charging stuff at all costs lol.