AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[stato]

On 2/3/2019 at 8:09 AM, Dracan said:

What is the general consensus or thoughts on the Chimeras?

I've got 3 from back in old fantasy days and now that BoC and and monsters can be fielded as an army again Im quite interested in a monster mash type list.

any suggestions on how to go about doing that?

 

I really want to add a Chimera too,

Anyone have any thoughts on their use?

[SwampHeart]

32 minutes ago, stato said:

I really want to add a Chimera too,

Anyone have any thoughts on their use?

I've used one in several games. It's a very good monster, just with a huge target marker. The MW output is solid (and gives us a nice ranged poke), and the combat efficacy is impressive. I think overall you do want to use the chimera more as 'sniper' as it'll get bogged down and torn down by big units. But it's great for really quickly removing your opponent's direwolves, khinerai, hellstriders, etc. The chimera is chunky points wise and sometimes won't earn its points back (but ultimately if it's helping you win that doesn't really mater). 

I've stopped using one because the way my list has evolved has pivoted away from too many larger monsters but I think the chimera is a solid option and worth testing. 

[Kazimer]

So how good are the endless spells? Are they worth bringing in? They look neat but I wanna save the money if they dont hold up.

[SwampHeart]

18 minutes ago, Kazimer said:

So how good are the endless spells? Are they worth bringing in? They look neat but I wanna save the money if they dont hold up.

I know a few tournament lists have done well with the Balefire Taurus and one page back I've got a run down on the dirgehorn. Overall they're probably worth having available even if they're not an auto-include in every list. 

[Deadkitten]

On 1/31/2019 at 1:51 PM, Sauriv said:

I will try out a list with 2 chaos spawn, and this is only because i start with 2cp (with 50% of 1 more) and i have a warherd heavy list (feel like they need a consistent way for more attacks). Haven't tested it yet but i do believe it can deliver. 

I wouldn't call my list competitive though. 

I have seen some posts arguing for not starting with chaos spawns (cuz they are too unreliable) and another upside with this, in my perspective, is that you can then fit more unit in a battalion. 

I have plans for playing with 2 smaller battalions to be able to play with the cp refundable artifact from hysh as well. 

I've been poking around looking for a new army and took a look at Gavespawn.  I was thinking of running 3-4 Spawns as a screen?  The unreliability matters less if they're up front and only it seems likely that 1 will still be around when you need it.   Thoughts?  

[Txplays]

A BoC player at the LVO placed 15th, name is Tony Pelowski, anyone seen his list?

[The_Yellow_Sign]

 

4 hours ago, Txplays said:

A BoC player at the LVO placed 15th, name is Tony Pelowski, anyone seen his list?

Yep, just scroll through recent posts in the Beasts of Chaos facebook group; he made a post there.

[LordRogalDorn]

You can also check it out with the best coast parings app.

[Angoose]

On 10/14/2018 at 4:04 PM, Tasman said:

 

That's the list btw

[Myrdin]

Thanks for the list.

 

Good lord this must have been a pain unpacking. moving around, being the player waiting for you to move this Tyranid swarm around, and then packing it back in. This is one of those lists, where if I were to play against this I would be like "Ok, so I`ll go for my lunch break, be back in 30 minutes"

[Angoose]

Haha, you should see what I'm trying out tomorrow club evening if you think that's alot of models... Allthegoats,andtherefriendsandrelatives.pdf

[Sauriv]

6 hours ago, Deadkitten said:

I've been poking around looking for a new army and took a look at Gavespawn.  I was thinking of running 3-4 Spawns as a screen?  The unreliability matters less if they're up front and only it seems likely that 1 will still be around when you need it.   Thoughts?  

I think that using a blob of chaos spawn could be hard to manuvrer as a screen, cuz the base size and move rule. 

It's easier to focus down that unit aswell. 

Having single spawns gives more freedom but gives you more drops. 

[Mutter]

19 minutes ago, Angoose said:

Haha, you should see what I'm trying out tomorrow club evening if you think that's alot of models... Allthegoats,andtherefriendsandrelatives.pdf

Link seems broken for me somehow ...

*edit: Now it worked.

Edited February 12, 2019 by Mutter

[Myrdin]

7 minutes ago, Angoose said:

Haha, you should see what I'm trying out tomorrow club evening if you think that's alot of models... Allthegoats,andtherefriendsandrelatives.pdf

Uff, that list seems awfully lacking in heavy hitters. What is your plan with it ? Coz this seems to me like "bog the enemy down, and take objectives" type of list, however it lacks the punching power to take on anything thats a Horde slayer, and keep the pressure up. Things like dragons and monsters of that type will murder the units within a turn or two, since the Battleshock will be brutal regardless of what you do (unless you plan to burn those extra CP on it of course). and even without battleshock, stuff like Gors and Ungors aint getting through a 14W 4+ monster anytime soon. I mean Bestigors are great and Ungor raiders are not to be underestimated, especially with the Battalion you are running, but while they are good at starting a momentum and grind through, they are easy to counter, and once stopped you have nothing else thats even remotely scary in that list.

Also I am a bit unsure about the prismatic palisade. With the massive ground you need to cover due to the sheer bulk of your army, that palisade wont do much since there is no way you can fit anything of value behind.  ..... Ok well maybe a Shaman or two, with bunch of Herdstone sacrifices, but I doubt your opponent would be targeting those, considering the swarm of bodies thats pushing onto them.

The way I could see this work would be dropping the palisade and a unit of Paired weapon Gors, and getting more Bestigors, in any configuration. While not the most elite of elites, they are just scary enough to be able to grind their way through most fights, or at least severely bleed the attacker. #BestyBoys!

[Angoose]

Erghhh it's literally 90‰ of the brayherd stuff I own. 

But yes the trick is to just outnumber on obj, early game (scenario dependant) and just avoid combats. 

Spot on with palisades, just to protect stuff from shooting. 

I don't own anymore bestigor

I'm up agasint a legion of blood list tomorrow with double dragons (vhordrai and an ethereal buddy <whelp>) 

It's more a test / me trying my older aos1 army in aos2

 

 

 

[Skreech Verminking]

11 minutes ago, Angoose said:

Erghhh it's literally 90‰ of the brayherd stuff I own. 

But yes the trick is to just outnumber on obj, early game (scenario dependant) and just avoid combats. 

Spot on with palisades, just to protect stuff from shooting. 

I don't own anymore bestigor

I'm up agasint a legion of blood list tomorrow with double dragons (vhordrai and an ethereal buddy <whelp>) 

It's more a test / me trying my older aos1 army in aos2

 

 

 

Good old skaven tactics.

well good luck there my friend, may the great Morghur be with you 

[Deadkitten]

That LVO list has some moves.

 

[Deadkitten]

How many people are using the expensive endless spell that makes units fight last?  

[Pandamina]

Can we ally Warpfire Dragon? I thought we can ally monsters of chaos, but can't find faq or anything.

[Sauriv]

9 minutes ago, Pandamina said:

Can we ally Warpfire Dragon? I thought we can ally monsters of chaos, but can't find faq or anything.

No sorry, can only ally with slaves of darkness.

We are only lucky to have some monsters in our battletome. 

[Myrdin]

For some reason the BoC community is unable to stir enough noise to get the obvious Plot Hole of our Allies fixed via a FAQ or any update. Its literally editing one to two lines in the book via a FAQ.

>No Monsters of Chaos > While we have several units from the Monsters of Chaos Roster (and lets be honest the bloody Preyton fits the BoC  theme unlike any other)

>No Chaos God allies > Beastmen, the mortal manifestation of Chaos, who worship all 4 as just different aspects of a more primordial form of Chaos and Anarchy, and have been part of Chaos Armies since they were first introduced are not able to bring in any units from other Chaos God armies....whoever it was that let this thing slip by unnoticed should be temporarily laid off, as this is a move of inconceivable incompetence and not understanding of very lore you are working on. An "ally" to BoC can be a powerful Chaos champion, mortal or demon who leads the masses of Beastmen. That would make sense withing the confine of the limited Points you can dedicate to an ally slot in every army.

>Now ful disclaimer > no Skaven allies, thats fine, no problem with that, But Khorne, Nurgle and Tzeentch (Slaaneshis, dont have their own book still, but once they have, they should be also included.) dedicated armies should be a thing in our Allies options.

This whole thing just reeks of mismanagement and not understanding the very army you are writing and how it interacts with the universe. Sure you can represent a fragment of beastmen who are dedicated to a God via the battalions but as mentioned above, You should also be able to represent a powerful chaos entity leading purely beastly armies to bring chaos, mayhem and anarchy to the civilized lands.

[Sauriv]

40 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

For some reason the BoC community is unable to stir enough noise to get the obvious Plot Hole of our Allies fixed via a FAQ or any update. Its literally editing one to two lines in the book via a FAQ.

>No Monsters of Chaos > While we have several units from the Monsters of Chaos Roster (and lets be honest the bloody Preyton fits the BoC  theme unlike any other)

>No Chaos God allies > Beastmen, the mortal manifestation of Chaos, who worship all 4 as just different aspects of a more primordial form of Chaos and Anarchy, and have been part of Chaos Armies since they were first introduced are not able to bring in any units from other Chaos God armies....whoever it was that let this thing slip by unnoticed should be temporarily laid off, as this is a move of inconceivable incompetence and not understanding of very lore you are working on. An "ally" to BoC can be a powerful Chaos champion, mortal or demon who leads the masses of Beastmen. That would make sense withing the confine of the limited Points you can dedicate to an ally slot in every army.

>Now ful disclaimer > no Skaven allies, thats fine, no problem with that, But Khorne, Nurgle and Tzeentch (Slaaneshis, dont have their own book still, but once they have, they should be also included.) dedicated armies should be a thing in our Allies options.

This whole thing just reeks of mismanagement and not understanding the very army you are writing and how it interacts with the universe. Sure you can represent a fragment of beastmen who are dedicated to a God via the battalions but as mentioned above, You should also be able to represent a powerful chaos entity leading purely beastly armies to bring chaos, mayhem and anarchy to the civilized lands.

You're taking about 90% of all chaos factions as allies. This would be a designers nightmare to try to balance. Guess some of them would make more sense lore wise but in a game perspective this would probably not work. 

From my readings, i found that BoC who follow a chaos god is looked down upon. So it would make more sense, according to me, that som BoC goes and join the chaos gods than the other way around. A smaller group joins the gods and not the gods leading the whole BoC

[SwampHeart]

3 hours ago, Myrdin said:

This whole thing just reeks of mismanagement and not understanding the very army you are writing and how it interacts with the universe. Sure you can represent a fragment of beastmen who are dedicated to a God via the battalions but as mentioned above, You should also be able to represent a powerful chaos entity leading purely beastly armies to bring chaos, mayhem and anarchy to the civilized lands.

It really isn't - what it represents (and why those armies can have BoC allies but not the other way around) is that devoted followers of Nurgle would never allow themselves to be ruled over and lead by Beastmen (same for the others). Beastmen may join the great throngs of the most powerful warlords but Blightkings would never bend the knee to a Beastlord. 

Also you need to really further read the fluff and understand that Beastmen who choose to devote themselves to one god are looked down on and other beastmen will attempt to kill or drive out the believer -unless the believer is powerful enough to take rulership of the herd (and thus become one of the Battalions). By and large Beasts are above the worship of the gods, they are chaos for the sake of chaos. Hell they're known to tear down Khornate Fortresses and Tzeentchian Libraries for being too civilized. Our ally situation is actually very in line with the current fluff - beastmen who worship only one chaos god are aberrant and devout followers of the other gods would never willingly serve under the beastmen.  

[Myrdin]

Nah, I get you guys.

Its just that I am very salty about the fact that we cant even use Monsters of Chaos, which honeslty has no actual balance, The monster Arcanum is what it is, and none of the monsters are essential for an army, rather they are cool extras.

The whole issue I have with this alliance nonsense is that > They can take our stuff for super uber combos, but we cant take theirs.

They can play with our toys, but we cant with theirs..... I know life aint fair, but come on now.... Clearly nobody cared about balance when they allowed the other Chaos armies to bring Beastmen, but suddenly we care when Beastmen could be taking stuff from the other armies ? (and its just 400 pts of allies anyways, you can get some synergy going for sure, but its not gonna break the game.).

Its just the blatant double standard (and the extreme overbalancing our battletome received with some of the stuff.) that grinds my gears.

Lets see how the unified SoD book turns out. Since they are our only allies I am invested a little in their well being.

[SwampHeart]

3 hours ago, Myrdin said:

Its just that I am very salty about the fact that we cant even use Monsters of Chaos, which honeslty has no actual balance, The monster Arcanum is what it is, and none of the monsters are essential for an army, rather they are cool extras.

This I'll grant is stupid. It makes no sense for Beasts of Chaos not to have access to FW's monsters (since in theory they're largely a big pool for everyone to choose from). But this is also the nature of dealing with FW - their rules team (afaik) isn't on the same page as GW's so stuff like this happens consistently. Chaos Dwarfs can ally in StD but StD can't ally in CD for example. 
 

3 hours ago, Myrdin said:

The whole issue I have with this alliance nonsense is that > They can take our stuff for super uber combos, but we cant take theirs.

There's a clear balance point here though. Our stuff doesn't really provide for super uber combos. There are some interesting builds using the god specific battalions but most BoC units, on their own, aren't terribly potent. A lot of the reason our book works well is its own internal mechanisms which don't really translate as allies. The counter point is that there are many chaos god specific units that if they could be used as allies would either simply overwrite the usage of certain units of ours or would unlock some decidedly negative play experience scenarios. Can you imagine being able to take hellstriders with 9 Tzaangor Enlightened who have access to savage dominion?

There is a genuine balancing effort in play with the one way ally gate - it may not feel good but its there for a reason (trust me, I've looked at all my options if allies were on the table). We got a rock solid book on its own and hopefully once StD releases we'll have a slightly expanded ally pool to play with,