AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[Beliman]

18 hours ago, DrThunder said:

Sorry if this has been covered and I have yet to play test anything, Did I read it correctly that the Jabberscythes Aura of Madness returns mortals for EVERY hit roll of 1 against it or just 1 mortal to the unit? I could see suicide bombing my Jabber into a horde unit every time if it is for every 1 the enemy rolls.

I am wondering how many points are you wiling to sacrifice per mortal wound delt.

I think that's 1mw for each attack roll of 1.

But you can't kill the attacking enemy unit before he/she finishes all of his/her attacks. All Aura of Madness mortal wounds are applied after he/she resolves all of them.

[Myrdin]

2 hours ago, Beliman said:

I think that's 1mw for each attack roll of 1.

But you can't kill the attacking enemy unit before he/she finishes all of his/her attacks. All Aura of Madness mortal wounds are applied after he/she resolves all of them.

And also I believe it was capped at Jabbers max Wounds no ? I cant remember, because I havent used this thing for years.

[Beliman]

27 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

And also I believe it was capped at Jabbers max Wounds no ? I cant remember, because I havent used this thing for years.

I don't know, really.

Each attack is resolved individually, that's why all other abilities that return dmg have a description of "after suffering" a wound have a max cap of dmg that can return. Aura of Madness has another description: "after all of its attacks have been resolved." From a lore pov, it seems that's the same unit that hit themself because their own madness (and not acid blood or whatever).

I suppose that you are right, but I'm not really sure.

[The Red King]

So I'm trying to decide if it's better to have 6 dogors or 20 gors plus 5 centigor. The list is:

 

Shaggoth

DP of khorne

Bray shaman ×2

 

10 gors

5 centigor

Cockatrice ×2

Ghorgon ×2

6 bullgor

6 bullgor

 

Either 

3 dragon ogors ×2

or

10 gors ×2

5 centigor

 

 

Option 1 represents more damage and individual staying power as I can buff dogors to a 3+ save and plop them on an objective (protecting my warherd by splitting enemy focus)

Option 2 represents more board presence, chaff, and screens (protecting my warherd by blocking the enemy) 

 

With the Khorne DP option 2 seems the better one to control the movement phase and ensure my bulls don't end up in fights they don't want but at the same time option 1 gives me more room to maneuver on the table ensuring they do get into fights they do want. In other words chaff and screens can get in my own way too but maybe not so much with the raw speed from the bray shaman buffs?

 

I think the answer is option 1 vs ranged armies and option 2 versus melee but that's tailoring I couldn't (and wouldn't) do so what seems best for general play?

Edited February 24, 2022 by The Red King

[Nezgor]

Hello guys, I'm dusting off my goats and I don't know why I should choose subfaction, DARKWALKERS I like them because putting my bulls and ghorgons by rapid deployment seems very attractive to give them survival. But GAVESPAWN I think it seems very good to take 6 heroes and take them to the "suicide" to get a free chaos spawn and get that buff of 1 more attack, in addition to the + damage artifact on the ogre dragon it looks so delicious .... What opinions do you have?

[Salyx]

@The Red King I prefer the Dragon Ogor units, because Gor are really only chaff to screen and die quickly whereas Dragon Ogors can hold themselves a bit in combat and do a lot more damage. On top of that, they can screen a much larger area because they are not affected by coherency and got a huge base. So for me-Dragon Ogors.

 

@Nezgor I played an all Bullgor list and was really tempted to play Darkwalkers, but I decided against it. It is just because Gavespawn is sooo much better. The Artifact is great and the extra attacks - especially in a Bullgor army - are soo good. On top of that, you get a free unbind and a lot of Chaos Spawn, which is also huge, because heroes can easily block an enemy unit without any counter by just turning into a Spawn. Yes, ambushing with the big boiz is really cool, but Gavespawn is just too good to pass.

[The Red King]

37 minutes ago, Salyx said:

@The Red King I prefer the Dragon Ogor units, because Gor are really only chaff to screen and die quickly whereas Dragon Ogors can hold themselves a bit in combat and do a lot more damage. On top of that, they can screen a much larger area because they are not affected by coherency and got a huge base. So for me-Dragon Ogors.

 

@Nezgor I played an all Bullgor list and was really tempted to play Darkwalkers, but I decided against it. It is just because Gavespawn is sooo much better. The Artifact is great and the extra attacks - especially in a Bullgor army - are soo good. On top of that, you get a free unbind and a lot of Chaos Spawn, which is also huge, because heroes can easily block an enemy unit without any counter by just turning into a Spawn. Yes, ambushing with the big boiz is really cool, but Gavespawn is just too good to pass.

I'm still suck on the idea that 10 bodies is more coverage than 3 and keep forgetting that coherency means 32's just dont have the same area as they used to.

 

That said they are still better for 1. Bodies on objectives (a 4+ save in combat lasts longer than expected in my experience) and 2. Preventing things from charging around them. Dogors cover plenty of area with the basic "cant move within 3" rule but they dont stop people from charging them + another unit the same way gors do.

[Kramig]

While thinking about a list, I thought: since the point cost is similar, a shaggoth is a better choice than a gorghon, isn't it? 

Shaggoth is a monster, like gorghon, but it is also hero and wizard. Moreover the output damage is not much different 

What do you think? 

[Myrdin]

1 hour ago, Kramig said:

While thinking about a list, I thought: since the point cost is similar, a shaggoth is a better choice than a gorghon, isn't it? 

Shaggoth is a monster, like gorghon, but it is also hero and wizard. Moreover the output damage is not much different 

What do you think? 

Shaggoth doesnt have the same damage output as a Gorghon. On the other side he doesnt suffer from Wound degradation either and can be upgraded with artifact while as you mentioned do the usual mage and hero stuff.

But on the other hand Gorghon can wipe entire unit on its own by devouring a single model and break coherency if your enemy doesnt pay perfect attention to it after every move.

I guess the only way to know for sure is to extensively test them against the same enemy list and see how they perform in a controled enviroment with more or less the same enemies.

[Skreech Verminking]

6 hours ago, Kramig said:

While thinking about a list, I thought: since the point cost is similar, a shaggoth is a better choice than a gorghon, isn't it? 

Shaggoth is a monster, like gorghon, but it is also hero and wizard. Moreover the output damage is not much different 

What do you think? 

Well Why not take both.

After all the shaggoths isn’t a behemoth, so that slot should still be open😉

[Popisdead]

On 2/26/2022 at 10:04 AM, Skreech Verminking said:

Well Why not take both.

After all the shaggoths isn’t a behemoth, so that slot should still be open😉

Yes both!  

The Shaggoth's utility is different from the Ghorgon's.  The ghorgon is meant to butcher things.  I quite like him and even when BoC were just bad his swingyness made for entertaining turns at least.  And those moments of eating 20 KO are what people remember for years (not that they did nothing in the previous 4 games)   These days Ghorgons are good.

The Shaggoth right now  has the move-debuff spell, can be a durable general, take artifacts, and doesn't degrade.  Indeed his dmg output is minimal, and the good thing is as that rend goes up he'll have -3 Rend turns three(?) onwards.  So as things get closer and more hairy his use comes up more.

[Holy_Diver]

One in my group is testing an "all in thunderscorn" list, with 4 shagghots and only dragon ogors.
240 wounds to deal with it's a Thing.

Has anyone ever thought about using such an idea?

[Myrdin]

1 hour ago, Holy_Diver said:

One in my group is testing an "all in thunderscorn" list, with 4 shagghots and only dragon ogors.
240 wounds to deal with it's a Thing.

Has anyone ever thought about using such an idea?

With a small unit count list like this I`d be worried about armies with extremely high kill potential like DoK for example. As the number of units and models in those units with this list is rather small small all it takes is one strong enemy turn (not even double turn) and its GG.

I think at the very minimum your friend should add in few fast chaff units like Centigors to shield all those DO.

Edited March 4, 2022 by Myrdin

[Magnus The Blue]

1 hour ago, Holy_Diver said:

One in my group is testing an "all in thunderscorn" list, with 4 shagghots and only dragon ogors.
240 wounds to deal with it's a Thing.

Has anyone ever thought about using such an idea?

Yup, It's a scary prospect (more like 200 wounds, but that's plenty).  Not quite as scary as 40+ Enlightened (on foot)  but hard to shift and good damage now a days.  

30 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

With a small unit count list like this I`d be worried about armies with extremely high kill potential like DoK for example. As the number of units and models in those units with this list is rather small small all it takes is one strong enemy turn (not even double turn) and its GG.

I think at the very minimum your friend should add in few fast chaff units like Centigors to shield all those DO.

Small unit count?  Dragon Orgors are 125 a unit, you'll have Tonnes of units!

With 4 Shaggoths you have room for 11 units of 3 Dragon Ogors!

With Horn of the Tempest you have the speed, so don't see the need in 90 points of chaff to protect 125 point units.

 

[Holy_Diver]

45 minutes ago, Magnus The Blue said:

Small unit count?  Dragon Orgors are 125 a unit, you'll have Tonnes of units!

With 4 Shaggoths you have room for 11 units of 3 Dragon Ogors!

With Horn of the Tempest you have the speed, so don't see the need in 90 points of chaff to protect 125 point units.

 

THIS. Basically you saturate the table with models (yesterday a full dragon list lost against it) and do not forget summons!

It's scary yeah, but it's costly.

[Magnus The Blue]

3 minutes ago, Holy_Diver said:

THIS. Basically you saturate the table with models (yesterday a full dragon list lost against it) and do not forget summons!

It's scary yeah, but it's costly.

Yup, I regularly play 3,3,6 Dragon Orgors and 1 shaggoth.  By far the most effective part of my army and only 655 points.  Three times that would be terrifying and as you say our now great summoning on top and ambushing too if you go dusk walkers.

[Lord Krungharr]

Well I only have 1 unit of 3 DOs with crushers for now, but WOW I love the sound of a pure Thunderscorn list!  Display board could be a mountainous pass filled with LED lightning.....if only I hadn't picked such crappy stocks 😛

But next week I fight my buddy's Soulblight again, but this time I'll bust out my old Warherd since their axes are now sharper than ever.  And I'm tossing in my old kitbashed Skullcracker Engines from Azgorh, which are now just super cool looking Chaos Chariots, but at least they can intercept things and do MW on the charge.  Kinda like the Warherd right?

Going Frayless this round (spawn aren't painted or based yet)...

[Maddpainting]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/SeAPQtAryX4qcLM9.pdf

Small change that will effect some of us, KDP is +1VP for a kill now and at times +2VPs vs some armies. Gunnock on the other hand does NOT give up points.

 

[Tullbeard]

Last night i took my Beasts of Chaos love to the next stage... i wrote a poem for it!

I was reading my sons some poetry at bedtime and read them a poem called "She Dwelt Among the Untrodden Ways" by William Wordsworth. "Untrodden Ways" is such an evocative term that made me immediately think of beasts of chaos. So, later that evening i wrote an homage to that poem all about beasts. 
Below is the original poem and my altered version. Enjoy my lack of literary skill!

 

Original:
She Dwelt Among The Untrodden Ways – William Wordsworth

She dwelt among the untrodden ways
Beside the springs of Dove,
A Maid whom there were none to praise
And very few to love:

A violet by a mossy stone
Half hidden from the eye!
—Fair as a star, when only one
Is shining in the sky.

She lived unknown, and few could know
When Lucy ceased to be;
But she is in her grave, and, oh,
The difference to me!

Homage:
They Dwelt Among The Untrodden Ways – Josh Richards aka Tullbeard aka definitely-not-a-good-poet

They dwelt among the untrodden ways
Beside the pools of blood,
A horde whom there were none to faze
A never-ending flood.

Effigies upon a stone,
Grotesque to the eye!
Foreboding as a star, all alone,
The last one in the sky

They lived unknown, and few did know
What would come to be
But we are in the grave now, and, oh
Now they come for thee
 

[Colonic]

I love it! 

[Lord Krungharr]

On 3/15/2022 at 4:57 AM, Maddpainting said:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/SeAPQtAryX4qcLM9.pdf

Small change that will effect some of us, KDP is +1VP for a kill now and at times +2VPs vs some armies. Gunnock on the other hand does NOT give up points.

 

BoC shoulda totally been Prime Hunters!

I fought my buddy's Soulblight Vyrkos Dynasty on Tuesday with my might Warherd.  It was the one with 6 objectives that you score more the more turns you hold them, very interesting mission.  He outdropped me and I think I went first after alpha beasting my 2 Cygors and Ghorgon.  I had allied 4 Chaos Chariots as shock speedbumps, but should have kept them all together and not rushed in with so quickly.  Did some MW to Blood Knights but then that one which made the charge died.  

His zombies and Graveguards moved up and so did Vhordrai and the Knights.  But my great axe MSU Bullgors took care of the ones on the right and held that right objective against his resurrected zombies and direwolves.  Ghorgon was a wrecking ball this game at first and then was a good tarpit on the far center.  Meanwhile Cygors did a great job of unbinding and causing chip MW, their rocks did squat though.  

The 9 axe/shield Bullgor unit wiped out the Grave Guard, whilst the 2 Doombulls and other greataxe Bullgors charged into Vhordrai.  Lots of MW on the charges but Vhordrai is a tough cookie and those all died.  Then Radukar the Beast came to help and he and Vhordrai killed all the 9 Bullgors there.  But I kept generating Primordial Call points and summoned 3 Dragon Ogors and another unit of Bullgors on the far side trying to capture far objectives, but they really just provided a good distraction.  In the end the Beasts generated 24 points on the last turn plus achieving all the battle tactics up til then and it was too much for the Vamps to come back from.  SAVAGE VICTORY!

The new Herdstone rules are a big big help, as is the bits from Broken Realms.  The rend aids in shoring up the Warherd's terrible to hit rolls.  Nighthaunt won't care, nor will Teclis with Ethereal Blessing or whatever it's called, but I like it.  I didn't do the rally thing, as the 9cow unit was dead before I could try.  Great game and I'll be using my Beasts much more often now that my Sons of Behemat give up so many extra VPs.

[BrBandit]

Has anyone had any success with the Tzeentch units since the new WD rules dropped?

I ask as I’m sat on hordes of Tzaangors, Enlightened and Skyfyres and it would be nice to do something with them! 

Doesn’t have to be peak competitiveness, just something different I can use on club nights.
 

 

Edited March 21, 2022 by BrBandit

[Maddpainting]

1 hour ago, BrBandit said:

Has anyone had any success with the Tzeentch units since the new WD rules dropped?

I ask as I’m sat on hordes of Tzaangors, Enlightened and Skyfyres and it would be nice to do something with them! 

Doesn’t have to be peak competitiveness, just something different I can use on club nights.
 

 

TEoF are amazing, I take 9 every game. Skyfires are still pretty meh and now worst that we get rend and not lower the enemy saves, TEoD are just better at all times IMO. Now for summoning if you need a key to hold a home or far away objective then yeah they can be used so you can shoot still. 

I would put TEoF equal to DOs and Bullgors, Disks just below with the Tshaman, Tzaangors mid tier (they have their place for sure and can do well but you need to build into them) and Skyfires the worst Tzeentch unit we have.

[Popisdead]

Dan in the UK, who won the Masters with a Tzeentch heavy BoC list, came back with a still fairly Tzaangor heavy BoC list and won a recent tournament last week.  

Glad to see this.

 

[Lord Krungharr]

Do the extra Beast rules make using Tzeentchy units better than just going all Tzeentch Disciples instead?  Destiny Dice and mega-sorcery are quite potent accompaniments.