Chaos Shepard Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 I always take my raiders in a large block of 40 that I will put into ambush. (you don't need to be Darkwalkers, they are Brayherd) I will also take a unit of 10 Ungors to throw onto the Herdstone but only in 1500pts or higher. Lower point games I prefer to use a Doombull or the Underworld team on the Herdstone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popisdead Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 On 2/17/2021 at 1:17 PM, Carnith said: They are comparing them because they are comparable. As @Chaos Shepard has already stated, they are similar unit size, but bulls outdamage them, and enlightened on foot outdamage them for cheaper. Slaangor gain hardly any benefit within BoC. Like, even from a lore perspective of them being gor, they are still lousy when compared to enlightened, another 3 wound, 5+ save unit. Slaangor not having brayherd just stops them from having more synergies in the army. No they aren't. They are really only comparable to Tzaangor enlightened. The lack of keywords isn't a comparison issue. Otherwise you're just fishing for straws on complaining about them. We get they aren't what people wanted. It's so tiring the constant doom and gloom, and complaining about a release that realistically isn't even in the stores yet. 19 hours ago, Death1942 said: Question about Ungor set up/List structure. Do you take two units of raiders for the initial extra screen distance and deploy on the front of your line to extend your wall of chaff a bit? Do you still take regular Ungors for sacrificing/sitting on objectives with the shields for extra saves? If you run 30 more Ungor raiders that aren't supposed to screen do you split them up into smaller units to split enemy attacks or do you group it up into a big blob? (Might be different answer if Darkwalkers). For reference my current lists is looking like 30 Raiders and 20 Regular Ungors. 10-man against FEC is pretty good, cause you can stop the pile-in if you deploy just a titch back. At the very minimum that is handy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Shepard Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 I would like to know what you think they should be compared to, or at least a reason why you think they can not or should not be compared to Bullgors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 4 hours ago, Popisdead said: ey are really only comparable to Tzaangor enlightened Who... also vastly outperform them? Like on the charge the slaangor deal less damage than the Tzaangor even if the tzaangor dont get their combat buff AND they cost 40 points more. I get being positive but why are you so insistent that Slaangor not be seen as bad? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sishuttleworth Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 (edited) On 2/16/2021 at 7:16 PM, Siphon said: This and, I think I might proxy them in as Tzaangor on foot. Never wanted to “waste “the disc to make the foot version. It’ll at least give me a chance to use the Slaangor models because they are really nice. Did you know that the Enlightened bits (arms, heads, weapons) fit perfectly on normal Tzaangor bodies? I'm building my 6 discs as Skyfires, and bought an extra box of Tzaangors - using 6 to make Enlightened on foot, and the other four as backups for summoning with the shaman's spell. The Tzaangor bodies are a tiny bit shorter, but not very noticeable - I've done my first three and just stood them on low rocks, so they stand a little higher than the other infantry. Works a treat. Excuse the poor photo, but hopefully it gives an idea of the comparison to a normal Tzaangor. Edited February 19, 2021 by sishuttleworth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrdin Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 1 hour ago, sishuttleworth said: Did you know that the Enlightened bits (arms, heads, weapons) fit perfectly on normal Tzaangor bodies? I'm building my 6 discs as Skyfires, and bought an extra box of Tzaangors - using 6 to make Enlightened on foot, and the other four as backups for summoning with the shaman's spell. The Tzaangor bodies are a tiny bit shorter, but not very noticeable - I've done my first three and just stood them on low rocks, so they stand a little higher than the other infantry. Works a treat. Excuse the poor photo, but hopefully it gives an idea of the comparison to a normal Tzaangor. I did something similar. Had few Tzaangors from Silver Tower or wtf was it called, that I picked from someone who was selling bunch of his Tzaangors. Had to refitt them with ne hands coz they were missign left arm on each model. Just slapped extra gor hand on them, cut it a little, fill out the gaps with GS and there, done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddpainting Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 Yeah I have 9 Enlighten on foot i made out of extra bits from Disks boxes (I have 21 models on disks, some Sky, most Enlighten). You just need to buy 1 Tzaangor box and the correct bases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sishuttleworth Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 59 minutes ago, Maddpainting said: Yeah I have 9 Enlighten on foot i made out of extra bits from Disks boxes (I have 21 models on disks, some Sky, most Enlighten). You just need to buy 1 Tzaangor box and the correct bases. Just out of interest, how do you find them in-game? I haven't used them yet - does the loss of mobility hamper them too much, or are they still usable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddpainting Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 They are basically just an alternative to Bullgors if you want to stay as a Brayherd, Bullgors hit a little harder but the Enlighten are faster. The problem is they are still not as good as Bestigors unless they go second in combat. If they go second and have all 3 alive they actually are better than bestigors in damage, but they are still 9 wounds at 5+ vs 10 wounds with a 4+. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrdin Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 (edited) On 2/20/2021 at 4:36 PM, Maddpainting said: They are basically just an alternative to Bullgors if you want to stay as a Brayherd, Bullgors hit a little harder but the Enlighten are faster. The problem is they are still not as good as Bestigors unless they go second in combat. If they go second and have all 3 alive they actually are better than bestigors in damage, but they are still 9 wounds at 5+ vs 10 wounds with a 4+. To bad we cant take diss mounted SkyFires as well, for appropriate discount. I would like to field those, while keeping Enlightened on the Discs for that crazy high movement speed. Edited February 21, 2021 by Myrdin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Shepard Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 GroundFires would be so nice, though I think for that reason we probably wont see them. They would probably seen as "too good". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramig Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 Hello guys! I am starting playing beasts of chaos. Yesterday I had my second match with this army; my list was the following: Shaman Grashraks-despoilers Doombull Tzaangor shaman 3x10 bestigor 6 bullgor with great weapon 10 gor 10 raider 10 ungor (for the herdstone) 6 skyfires Brass deapoiler battalion My opponent was gloomspite. I had bad luck with realm, because it came out metal realm and it so I couldn't use ambush... I was very curious of trying skyfires, but I am afraid that they are too expensive despite of what they can perform. Do you agree? Has anybody tried a list full of bestigor? (like 7x10 bestigor) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death1942 Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 Had my first two games with the beasts last week. We absolutely melt away quickly but I can see the potential. Bestigors did so well but my bullgors did almost nothing aside from killing Sigvald, they kept getting charged because my screening wasn't ideal. Do people typically go first or second when running the beasts? I kept taking first turn to jump onto objectives to score points but I am starting to think maybe going second is better for the potential double turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheArborealWalrus Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Death1942 said: Do people typically go first or second when running the beasts? I kept taking first turn to jump onto objectives to score points but I am starting to think maybe going second is better for the potential double turn. As always, it depends. I'd say mostly on what you're army is. A more offensive army with bullgors and such would likely be best taking second to avoid damage. If you can reach them first then it might be worth it or if you think they'll just destroy you first turn. If you're a ungor body blocking spam, I'd say going first is a good plan to prevent your opponent from blocking you off (and let you block them). I haven't really played the body blocking stuff too much. I'm khornate at heart. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popisdead Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 22 hours ago, Kramig said: Hello guys! I am starting playing beasts of chaos. Yesterday I had my second match with this army; my list was the following: Has anybody tried a list full of bestigor? (like 7x10 bestigor) Did you take Darkwalkers? it would probably benefit you more for elite units as it keeps them off the table and helps positioning. Being so light on chaff (the core of our army) means you have to play really cagey. 18 hours ago, Death1942 said: Had my first two games with the beasts last week. We absolutely melt away quickly but I can see the potential. Bestigors did so well but my bullgors did almost nothing aside from killing Sigvald, they kept getting charged because my screening wasn't ideal. Do people typically go first or second when running the beasts? I kept taking first turn to jump onto objectives to score points but I am starting to think maybe going second is better for the potential double turn. We throw chaff and slow the enemy down to win by objective scoring. YOu win by dying as slowly as you can. The fact your bullgors killed Sigvald is pretty impressive. They dice spike hard. I love them but a 3+ to hit would go so far. Consider going second and never charging. Try to just score objectives and slow your opponent. There is a good Podcast with Joel McGrath on The AoS Coach where he talks about how to learn BoC. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganigumo Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 23 hours ago, Kramig said: I was very curious of trying skyfires, but I am afraid that they are too expensive despite of what they can perform. Do you agree? As a dedicated shooting unit skyfires are horrendously overcosted, but their melee damage is actually pretty good as long as they fight before their opponents. To get the most out of them you need to be looking for opportunities for them to take out fragile and weakened units in melee, in addition to using their shooting. Looking at the numbers 6 skyfires fighting first will usually do between 9 and 18 damage to a 4+ save (the d3 attacks and damage of the discs make for a lot of variance) with the most likely outcomes being 12-15. Shooting, while near a shaman, will usually do about 6 damage to a 4+ save. An underrated part of them is the fact that they don't really need anyone to buff them in melee since they provide themselves rerolls to hit and wound easily, so you can have them dash away from the shaman to engage somewhere else if you need to. so in short if enlightened shoot near the shaman and fight something they can do about 20 damage against a 4+ save, which can take out some mid-bulk units (and most monsters), and if they're shooting other targets (like heroes) they can put out enough damage to kill those small 10 wound screen/objective holding units. Just try to avoid picking fights against chaff where your opponent will get to charge your skyfires immediately after, 6 are 400 points and basically made of paper so don't trade them unless its absolutely necessary. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddpainting Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 (edited) On 2/23/2021 at 2:46 PM, Ganigumo said: As a dedicated shooting unit skyfires are horrendously overcosted, but their melee damage is actually pretty good as long as they fight before their opponents. To get the most out of them you need to be looking for opportunities for them to take out fragile and weakened units in melee, in addition to using their shooting. Looking at the numbers 6 skyfires fighting first will usually do between 9 and 18 damage to a 4+ save (the d3 attacks and damage of the discs make for a lot of variance) with the most likely outcomes being 12-15. Shooting, while near a shaman, will usually do about 6 damage to a 4+ save. An underrated part of them is the fact that they don't really need anyone to buff them in melee since they provide themselves rerolls to hit and wound easily, so you can have them dash away from the shaman to engage somewhere else if you need to. so in short if enlightened shoot near the shaman and fight something they can do about 20 damage against a 4+ save, which can take out some mid-bulk units (and most monsters), and if they're shooting other targets (like heroes) they can put out enough damage to kill those small 10 wound screen/objective holding units. Just try to avoid picking fights against chaff where your opponent will get to charge your skyfires immediately after, 6 are 400 points and basically made of paper so don't trade them unless its absolutely necessary. Then you read Salamanders with their hero support and just cry. Edited March 2, 2021 by Maddpainting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fyrenn Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 Has anyone had any experience allying in the mega gargant with BoC? I'm generally not thinking too competitively minded, but I know it takes away a big chunk of points and all allies - but since there is so little synergy already, maybe that isnt' as big of a deal? I think it does really limit a lot of the other options because it eats up so much, but it just feels beastly / cool. I think some people mentioned it a bunch of pages back, but I don't see anyone ever comment on it! I was thinking of options on how he might be converted to a true, mountainous shaggoth. maybe find a dragon to put his torso on and just ignore that name he normally has 🙂 Also, as an aside - was there ever a reason why the fimir (RIP) were destruction as opposed to BoC? Didn't they used to (and still do) worship chaos, but sort of fell out of favor from the chaos gods' end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddpainting Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 (edited) From what I can tell it lacks a lot of the damage compare to being it their own book. I think a Deamon Prince, Be'lakor, or a Chaos Lord on K would be better. About the Fimir, yeah in the past they followed chaos, i'm guessing their lore changed, doesn't really matter as they are no longer being sold and will soon be legends. Edited March 8, 2021 by Maddpainting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derptau Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 On 2/17/2021 at 1:17 PM, Carnith said: They are comparing them because they are comparable. As @Chaos Shepard has already stated, they are similar unit size, but bulls outdamage them, and enlightened on foot outdamage them for cheaper. Slaangor gain hardly any benefit within BoC. Like, even from a lore perspective of them being gor, they are still lousy when compared to enlightened, another 3 wound, 5+ save unit. Slaangor not having brayherd just stops them from having more synergies in the army. 16 hours ago, Fyrenn said: Has anyone had any experience allying in the mega gargant with BoC? I'm generally not thinking too competitively minded, but I know it takes away a big chunk of points and all allies - but since there is so little synergy already, maybe that isnt' as big of a deal? I think it does really limit a lot of the other options because it eats up so much, but it just feels beastly / cool. I think some people mentioned it a bunch of pages back, but I don't see anyone ever comment on it! I was thinking of options on how he might be converted to a true, mountainous shaggoth. maybe find a dragon to put his torso on and just ignore that name he normally has 🙂 Also, as an aside - was there ever a reason why the fimir (RIP) were destruction as opposed to BoC? Didn't they used to (and still do) worship chaos, but sort of fell out of favor from the chaos gods' end? I think it would be an interesting thing to try a mega gargant. I don't necessarily know how good it would be, but the ability to kick objectives into layered hordes sounds fun. As for Fimir, I'm just sad. I had built up an entire 2k list to play tournaments with right as the Coviding happened last year. Now they're legends so I've got lots of them sitting around. Going to proxy them as either warherd or trolls I guess . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fyrenn Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 10 hours ago, Derptau said: As for Fimir, I'm just sad. I had built up an entire 2k list to play tournaments with right as the Coviding happened last year. Now they're legends so I've got lots of them sitting around. Going to proxy them as either warherd or trolls I guess . . . Well, i'd take those Fimir models over bullgors all day as count as. You're lucky you got them at all 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popisdead Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 On 3/8/2021 at 5:14 AM, Maddpainting said: , Be'lakor, Be'Lakor is a popular choice, he may bring some exciting stuff with his Broken Realms book. On 3/8/2021 at 8:34 AM, Derptau said: As for Fimir, I'm just sad. I had built up an entire 2k list to play tournaments with right as the Coviding happened last year. Now they're legends so I've got lots of them sitting around. Going to proxy them as either warherd or trolls I guess . . . Were yours FW? Man,.. GW,.. ugh, dropping the ball on AoS like they did on Fantasy... Sorry to hear. What about as Black Orcs (or Ard Boyz? are they called?) did anyone listen to Warhammer Weekly on Fixing BoC? It's a good listen, on yt you can hear it at x1.5 speed and Vince puts markers in to skip the pre-amble. My funniest take away was Bullgors have a 1" reach yet the axe blade alone is 1" and then they have arms and long hafts. The model literally just has to drop it's weapon forward to get a 2" reach let alone be able to get more out of it. Bestigors aren't too far off either with long reach. The baffling thing is the new Slaangors have 2" reach. Just makes you shake your head what is going on over in that building,... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddpainting Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Im actually worried that Be'lakor will now be 410pts or more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Televiper11 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Me too! My Be’lakor Beastherd is concerned about a points increase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popisdead Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 4 hours ago, Maddpainting said: Im actually worried that Be'lakor will now be 410pts or more. Would that put him on range points-wise for what would reasonably be expected? Glutos is 400 and he's huge,.. in the sense of what you get. I don't know what all the Greater Daemons cost other than Slaanesh but would a 410 point Be'Lakor make sense? Out of curiosity have any rules or notions about him been leaked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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