AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness / Darkoath Discussion

[Greven]

1 hour ago, Ravinsild said:

You’re asking a Khorne main why not Tzeentch? It’s because I hate Sorcery just as much as him! It pains me enough to have used the mark of slaneesh. I mostly just want to run them as Khorne. 

Why not run it as Khorne then? Use gore pilgrims with filler units and let a 15 man squad of horses go bonkers with glaives go HaM on the field? Ive seen it been done before with the gore pilgrims giving + 1 to hit 2 times and +1 to hit from the general, letting glaives hit on 1+ ...... just a wrecking ball..

[Greven]

9 hours ago, AngiesArmies said:

I have a Tzeentch themed Slaves to Darkness army, mostly made up from old models. I tend to go with what I like to paint or what I picked up 2nd hand more than actual deep tactics, but I'd like to ask your help about how to build/extend two of my units!

- Is it better to go for two units of 5 chaos knights with hand weapon/shield (it's what they come with) or one unit of 10?

- I have one unit of 5 marauder horsemen with javelins (old ungor spears that fit very well). Should I extend them to 10 man, or build a 2nd 5 man unit with command with javelins, or a second 5 man unit with hand weapon/shield?

I would go 10 men javelins as flankers, harassment. They die a little more easy and ten shots on 4’s and 4’s just doesnt add up, so 20 might :).  In my personal experience with knights, i use them now per 15 as a squad, but have run them as 3x5 with 2x command. Just depends on what u further have as units.

Edited July 22, 2018 by Greven

[Ravinsild]

4 hours ago, Greven said:

I would go 10 men spears as flankers, harassment. They die a little more easy and ten shots on 4’s and 4’s just doesnt add up, so 20 might :).  In my personal experience with knights, i use them now per 15 as a squad, but have run them as 3x5 with 2x command. Just depends on what u further have as units.

 

4 hours ago, Greven said:

Why not run it as Khorne then? Use gore pilgrims with filler units and let a 15 man squad of horses go bonkers with glaives go HaM on the field? Ive seen it been done before with the gore pilgrims giving + 1 to hit 2 times and +1 to hit from the general, letting glaives hit on 1+ ...... just a wrecking ball..

Basically the long and short of it is: I always take a premise that’s essentially narrative/themed and then try to min/max it, and the theme for this army is mostly based on this https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Chaos-Chosen-Team-Collection-2018-eng

They can also get 1 Minotaur as their “big guy”. 

I have a massive Khorne collection but I kind of just want to use the regular awesome Chaos models. For Gore Pilgrims I would have to completely change the leaders and it would make my casting really difficult. 

I wanted an excuse to use the regular Lord of Chaos model, the mounted one and the Darkoath queen. I also just wanted an excuse to collect basic Chaos Warriors and Knights because I love the models and I can supplement them into my Khorne Mortals/Bloodbound when I run that. For this though I just wanted pure “regular” chaos without any particular gods influence. I’m not sure if there’s a “Black Legion”/Chaos Undivided or United or whatever/unmarked. 

[Ravinsild]

16 hours ago, Greven said:

Looks better to me, i also meant the lord on mount, it does crazy damage for example with an Ghyrstrike 2/2/-1/2, thats serious. 

Why not make the switch to tzeentch allegiance though? It makes your cogs better as u generate an extra spell for your wizard, u get destiny dice wich are incredible and everything in your army has permanent mystic shield from your tzeentch heroes.

The reason for tzeentch is just that nothing really benefits from having the run and charge in my opinion, i get that the battalion is a thing, but just measure your knights correctly, and keep your opponents average charge range in mind to not get charged yourself. The only unit u want to run amd charge is one unit of glaive knights, i think the switch could potentially be more significant.

A thing to notice is the lord on mount with mark of tzeentch re-rolls ALL failed saves, not just ones. Big deal. U can go a lot of ways with a list like this, also greater daemons as allies could be insane, i had the LoC as mortal wound bomb, a thing that fills up the gaps of Slaves in general. 

I changed up my list a little bit to try an interesting tactic. I dropped some endless spells and a Lord of Chaos. 

I added back a Gorebeast-Chariot because they just look so cool! I then added the Gravetide! Then I made my Chaos Lord on Demonic Mount my General right? Then I gave him the Command Trait Lord of Terror and put on him the helm of the oppressor! 

Now I will crash my Lord on Mount and Chaos Knights into a unit and Gravetide that unit for a combined -5 to bravery! 

I hope I get my tax return soon so I can get this Slaves to Darkness army ASAP and try it out! 

[Agent of Chaos]

Many people have talked about / theory-crafted the bravery bomb list but I am yet to see it in action or read a battle report where its been used. My biggest concern with it is that its not that difficult to mitigate battle shock for most armies, particularly now that with a few command points anyone can spam inspiring presence and do it exactly when it is needed. If you do get the list off the ground please do a report on how it goes!

[Ravinsild]

48 minutes ago, Agent of Chaos said:

Many people have talked about / theory-crafted the bravery bomb list but I am yet to see it in action or read a battle report where its been used. My biggest concern with it is that its not that difficult to mitigate battle shock for most armies, particularly now that with a few command points anyone can spam inspiring presence and do it exactly when it is needed. If you do get the list off the ground please do a report on how it goes!

I think the strength of the bravery bomb list is that it forces a clutch decision. Command points are a limited resource, and if you’re loose with using them then you won’t have any to use Inspiring Presence anyway.

If you have some, it makes you have a tough choice, because you can spend the one you have to save your unit and not have it on your next turn, and only generate 1 but you might need 2 or so to get off multiple command traits from different leaders.

I think it puts a pressure point on the enemy. 

Like for me: I play Ironjawz so I like to stack them up and use them for Waagh! Or as Khorne Bloodbound literally... almost all of my leaders have extremely worthwhile command points. It’s like, “He killed 2 brutes and my bravery is 6 so now it’s 1, I could lose the whole unit... but I need them here and now to stop them from getting over there... do I save for a waaaagh or do I save these brutes...?” 

So I don’t know. It think like with all things it will be more effective against some armies than others, but similarly it might be super effective against some armies as well. 

[Greven]

Ive used bravery bomb also, with tha gnashing jaws that gives -1 bravery to unit and the same artifacts. Worked pretty well this particular game tbh. I will try it again soon. I played Storcast then, and got rid of judis en libis fast. 

The command point thing is an argument, but not as strong as u might think, u have to make big choices to save up any points.

[Ravinsild]

1 hour ago, Greven said:

Ive used bravery bomb also, with tha gnashing jaws that gives -1 bravery to unit and the same artifacts. Worked pretty well this particular game tbh. I will try it again soon. I played Storcast then, and got rid of judis en libis fast. 

The command point thing is an argument, but not as strong as u might think, u have to make big choices to save up any points.

That’s basically what I was saying as far as command points go. Especially for armies who like to stack them up and go all in on one command ability. Like if you break their key unit before they have a chance to dump their CP they’ve been banking on that one wombo combo they’ll be sweating. 

So what do you feel is better: gnashing jaws or the Gravetide? Maybe I could drop cogs and run both? How valuable is the +2 move/charge to STD? Should I go full tilt all in on bravery bomb? 

With a really full Bravery Bomb list I could run the Jaws, Purple Sun and Gravetide plus Chaos Knights, Lord of Terror and Helm of the Oppressor for a grand total of -7 bravery. 

As Anubis from Ronin Warriors often said, “Quake with fear!” 

Edited July 23, 2018 by Ravinsild

[amysrevenge]

Thank you!

[Infernalslayer]

Another FAQ for the Disciples of Tzeentch battletome

"Pages 75-136 – Chaos Spawn
Change all references to ‘Chaos Spawn’ to ‘Tzeentch
Chaos Spawn’ (including the name of the warscroll on
page 131)."

 

That means that the Chaos Spawn warscroll in the Tzeentch Battletome now has a different name and no longer replaces the Chaos Spawn warcsroll in "Grand Alliance: Chaos" , so we officially get back our spawns with chaos marks!

[cplhicks]

I am so happy I get to use my Jabberslythe in my STD army now?

[Greven]

11 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

That’s basically what I was saying as far as command points go. Especially for armies who like to stack them up and go all in on one command ability. Like if you break their key unit before they have a chance to dump their CP they’ve been banking on that one wombo combo they’ll be sweating. 

So what do you feel is better: gnashing jaws or the Gravetide? Maybe I could drop cogs and run both? How valuable is the +2 move/charge to STD? Should I go full tilt all in on bravery bomb? 

With a really full Bravery Bomb list I could run the Jaws, Purple Sun and Gravetide plus Chaos Knights, Lord of Terror and Helm of the Oppressor for a grand total of -7 bravery. 

As Anubis from Ronin Warriors often said, “Quake with fear!” 

-5 bravery tends to be enough i think, every spell has to go off and if not cast the points are just sitting there.

 

Cogs are amazing! Its one of those spells i just love to have, i would just run one of the 2 bravery spells. The tide is easier to cast but needs to have the wizard rather close, the jaws move a little further, but are harder to cast.. It comes down to playstyle i would say. 

[Oldshrimpeyes]

Is it still legit to take the chaos sorceror Lord on a mount?

[Graftonianman]

2 hours ago, Oldshrimpeyes said:

Is it still legit to take the chaos sorceror Lord on a mount?

I don’t see why not. 

Although, he seems a bit pricey. A sorcerer on a manticore is only 40 more points!

[Tasman]

9 minutes ago, Graftonianman said:

I don’t see why not. 

Although, he seems a bit pricey. A sorcerer on a manticore is only 40 more points!

True,  BUT..... his signature spell is dope.

[Ravinsild]

Does the mount cost points? It says 160 but if he takes a mount his movement speed is 10” and he gains the flailing hooves attack but that’s it. 

I was considering using a spare horse from one of my chariots oorrrrrr this like easy to build death guy on a skeleton pegasus.... the rider is separate from the mount I checked the sprues online  

i was going to use the manticore rider sorcerer since he’s perched and ready for a mount 

[Agent of Chaos]

The Mount is free :-)

So good they finally fixed the Daemon Prince keyword situation. No idea why that took years...

Also great we can have monsters as allies.

As for the bravery bomb list, totally agree that making your opponent choose between spending command points or saving their unit from fleeing is a viable strategy. I suppose you just need to have other tricks up your sleeve besides the bravery bomb as if you are counting on making units flee and your opponent goes down the inspiring presence path you may find your game plan halted. 

[Ravinsild]

17 minutes ago, Agent of Chaos said:

The Mount is free ?

So good they finally fixed the Daemon Prince keyword situation. No idea why that took years...

Also great we can have monsters as allies.

As for the bravery bomb list, totally agree that making your opponent choose between spending command points or saving their unit from fleeing is a viable strategy. I suppose you just need to have other tricks up your sleeve besides the bravery bomb as if you are counting on making units flee and your opponent goes down the inspiring presence path you may find your game plan halted. 

Well I meant aren’t the units good enough on their own merit? I felt like the bravery Bomb was just captitalizing on some cool innate tools (traits, artefacts and abilities) but the bread and butter was hoping Bestigors, Bullgors, Chaos Lords, Knights and Warriors were all individually not trash lmao. 

[Agent of Chaos]

Not trash, but not great. Low if not no rend, damage 1 aside from knights on the charge, low volume of attacks with few ways of buffing any of it. 

[BradReligion]

G'day f(r)iends,

Way back in the day (like 6th or 7th ed) I played an all mounted Warriors of Chaos army. It looked awesome. Long story short, the army moved on, as did I. With how much I'm enjoying AoS these days, I am toying around with the idea of resurrecting and rebuilding the army.

Now I know nothing about Slaves to Darkness, and even less about the best ways to synergise the faction. So I'll put it to you; how would you build a 2000 point Slaves to Darkness list where everything is mounted? I'm not wedded to any particular god, and would be painting the force as an undivided army (so can run each unit as whatever I want). I am pretty keen on having a War Mammoth in there though - so really how would you fill out the remaining 1680 points?

Messing around with lists I came up with....

3 x 10 Marauder Horsemen

1 x 10 Knights

1 x 3 Gorebeast chariots

1 x War Mammoth

That leaves 520 points for heroes, filler units etc. Does this sound like a good start? What mounted heroes are considered the most competitive? Are the specific combos you'd point a noob to? How about battalions centred on mounted forces? I need help!

Cheers y'all!

[fjaoief]

39 minutes ago, BradReligion said:

G'day f(r)iends,

Way back in the day (like 6th or 7th ed) I played an all mounted Warriors of Chaos army. It looked awesome. Long story short, the army moved on, as did I. With how much I'm enjoying AoS these days, I am toying around with the idea of resurrecting and rebuilding the army.

Now I know nothing about Slaves to Darkness, and even less about the best ways to synergise the faction. So I'll put it to you; how would you build a 2000 point Slaves to Darkness list where everything is mounted? I'm not wedded to any particular god, and would be painting the force as an undivided army (so can run each unit as whatever I want). I am pretty keen on having a War Mammoth in there though - so really how would you fill out the remaining 1680 points?

Messing around with lists I came up with....

3 x 10 Marauder Horsemen

1 x 10 Knights

1 x 3 Gorebeast chariots

1 x War Mammoth

That leaves 520 points for heroes, filler units etc. Does this sound like a good start? What mounted heroes are considered the most competitive? Are the specific combos you'd point a noob to? How about battalions centred on mounted forces? I need help!

Cheers y'all!

a Lord of Chaos on Daemonic Mount and a chaos sorcerer lord and a lord of chaos I suppose. all slaanesh. use chaos lord on daemonic mount and chaos lord's command abilities in one phase to a unit of 3 gorebeast chariots,  enjoy your time.

Edited July 24, 2018 by fjaoief

[Tasman]

4 hours ago, BradReligion said:

G'day f(r)iends,

Way back in the day (like 6th or 7th ed) I played an all mounted Warriors of Chaos army. It looked awesome. Long story short, the army moved on, as did I. With how much I'm enjoying AoS these days, I am toying around with the idea of resurrecting and rebuilding the army.

Now I know nothing about Slaves to Darkness, and even less about the best ways to synergise the faction. So I'll put it to you; how would you build a 2000 point Slaves to Darkness list where everything is mounted? I'm not wedded to any particular god, and would be painting the force as an undivided army (so can run each unit as whatever I want). I am pretty keen on having a War Mammoth in there though - so really how would you fill out the remaining 1680 points?

Messing around with lists I came up with....

3 x 10 Marauder Horsemen

1 x 10 Knights

1 x 3 Gorebeast chariots

1 x War Mammoth

That leaves 520 points for heroes, filler units etc. Does this sound like a good start? What mounted heroes are considered the most competitive? Are the specific combos you'd point a noob to? How about battalions centred on mounted forces? I need help!

Cheers y'all!

Sorcerer lord on a manticore....

[COVEN]

Mulling over the concept of a civil society that has developed since the inception of the new era that worships Chaos as a pantheon. In theory the community would focus on the virtues of the Gods (as they see them) instead of the aspects commonly associated with them (Blood, Decay, Excess, Deceit etc) The idea is based around how something looks from a different point of view or to a different person. On another level, I like the idea of a more morally grey representation of Chaos instead of evil folk who can't figure out how to build functioning cities.

Based on that,

a) Do you think that is at all feasible?

b) What could be the virtues the Gods represent? Khorne could represent Strength, Honour, the Warrior and the Guardian of kin and clan etc. Tzeentch is the aspect of knowledge and mindfulness.

[kenshin620]

1 hour ago, COVEN said:

Mulling over the concept of a civil society that has developed since the inception of the new era that worships Chaos as a pantheon. In theory the community would focus on the virtues of the Gods (as they see them) instead of the aspects commonly associated with them (Blood, Decay, Excess, Deceit etc) The idea is based around how something looks from a different point of view or to a different person. On another level, I like the idea of a more morally grey representation of Chaos instead of evil folk who can't figure out how to build functioning cities.

Based on that,

a) Do you think that is at all feasible?

b) What could be the virtues the Gods represent? Khorne could represent Strength, Honour, the Warrior and the Guardian of kin and clan etc. Tzeentch is the aspect of knowledge and mindfulness.

Chaos has always been Double Sided (both good and bad). Thats why they are so tricky to worship. Its just the good part tends to be a little overshadowed when they demand sacrifices.

 

Khorne is about Martial Prowess and Honor

Tzeentch is about Hope and Change

Nurgle is about Longevity

Slaanesh if about Creativity, Art, and New Experiences.

 

Back in Old-Hammer, you had Cathay (totally not china) where they actually had Chaos cults that weren't "evil"....because of Celestial Bureaucracy or something....

[COVEN]

18 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

Chaos has always been Double Sided (both good and bad). Thats why they are so tricky to worship. Its just the good part tends to be a little overshadowed when they demand sacrifices.

 

Khorne is about Martial Prowess and Honor

Tzeentch is about Hope and Change

Nurgle is about Longevity

Slaanesh if about Creativity, Art, and New Experiences.

 

Back in Old-Hammer, you had Cathay (totally not china) where they actually had Chaos cults that weren't "evil"....because of Celestial Bureaucracy or something....

It's my impression that GW aren't interested in Chaos being grey but being that insidious and constant threat to "the good guys, ehich which isn't helped by the insistence of telling most stories through the eyes of l"the good guys." Even in Cathay the worship of Tzeentch was described to us narratively as nefarious and cancerous.

The mentality I want to explore is how this Chaos based "city" sees the Stormcast and Sigmar as Tyrants and warmongers.

Do you think it's plausible if the perfect balance was struck between the gods that type of thing could be a thriving community?