AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[lolwut]

I love the black coach model. Is it good enough to field 3 of them in a list? Or is it the kind of thing where you bring one, and it does its job well?

[Spears]

How many models do people find themselves ending up with in lists? I'm not sure my spirit can take pushing around 120 dudes.

[Neck-Romantic]

@Kelduar

True, and lets not forget that being able to point and kill 1 specific threat could very much swing a game in your favor, in this case having 6/9/12 Spirit Hosts rerolling all misses will hurt like hell vs pretty much anything.

Wouldnt use it for a squad of 3 though.

@lolwut the coach feels like a one-include on a flanking force as a threat multiplier, maaaybe 2 in a 2k+ game but 3 would be a loss of efficiency imho

Edited August 16, 2018 by Neck-Romantic

[LLC]

Hi Team,

 I was hoping to see some lists involving the bladegheist revenants. I can't figure out how many to take and what to give up to take them.

 

I usually face at least 1 bastillidon (usually 2) and some razordons and an engine of the gods -- so a lot of ranged threats. I feel like 5-10 would die so fast. 

 

 

[SleeperAgent]

22 minutes ago, LLC said:

Hi Team,

 I was hoping to see some lists involving the bladegheist revenants. I can't figure out how many to take and what to give up to take them.

 

I usually face at least 1 bastillidon (usually 2) and some razordons and an engine of the gods -- so a lot of ranged threats. I feel like 5-10 would die so fast. 

 

 

I ran 2 units of ten in one of my last games, they got eaten so fast. If you run em gotta be a 20 man unit or something. Having 1 wound is so bad.

[Neck-Romantic]

I have 20 I'm building as two 10 man units in a shroudguard... but the main force is 12 Hosts with Olynder. 

The plan is to flank with them and run amok in the backfield, but Im thinking they might need to be at least 15 strong to survive til they can be replenished even with their 5+... thoughts?

Edited August 17, 2018 by Neck-Romantic

[Neck-Romantic]

Sorry to double post but I have a question for the community.

It has been asked before, but I dont recall a specific answer; how does our healing work with Spirit Hosts and Hexwraiths?

The rule is stated in a manner that suggests that you must heal wounded models first (naturally) but any "over heal" is wasted, and also that if there are no wounded models you may possibly roll low enough to not even restore any models either.

This is confusing as the Legion of Nagash Invocation of Nehek clearly spells out that wounded models are healed to full, then spillover ressurects the next model and heals it according to your heal dice score. 

I realize they are two distinct books but the contradictory nature of the mechanic seems wrong.

Say you have a unit of Hosts with a few casualties and one base with 2 wounds remaining. Your Torment rolls a 3 heal result... would you heal the 1 wound on the host and the 2 additional healing score is wasted? This problem is even worse when using a Guardian of Souls who can heal 6 or even 9 wounds potentially.

Say you have no wounded bases and roll a 2... do you not even return a base? Does a base come back with 2 wounds? 

Say a Guardian rolls a 6 on Hexes... do you heal 1 wounded hex and return 2 whole Hexes and a Hex with 1 wound? 

This is a potentially severe issue if you are forced to lose heal dice results.

[GeneralZero]

It has been answered already this way (as per reading the cards):

first you chose: healing OR bring back unit

then Roll the dice and get the wounds back

if Healing : heal up to the wounds back but don't add new miniature (weird but for some 1 wound miniature, it is ok)

if bring back unit: bring back as many as wounds back allow rounded DOWN. Ex: you got 2 wounds back, you get  2 reapers or 1 hex or...ZERO spirits! For a spirit back you need a "wounds back" greater or equal to 3.

 

[Neck-Romantic]

You have to heal before you can bring back as you can only ever have 1 wounded model. 

This is a far inferior system than Invocation then.

[ledha]

22 minutes ago, Neck-Romantic said:

You have to heal before you can bring back as you can only ever have 1 wounded model. 

This is a far inferior system than Invocation then.

what ? if i have 3 hexwraith (one wounded) and brng back two hexwraiths, i'll still have only 1 wounded model

[Neck-Romantic]

The way its written if you have a wounded hex and choose to bring back dead models any odd numbered dice would fail as you can only ever have 1 wounded hex

Say you have a group of Hosts, some dead, 1 wounded with 2 wounds remaining. You target the Hosts with the a GoS.

You can EITHER

Heal. Any roll of more than a 1 is wasted.

Ressurect. Any roll of a 1 or 2 does nothing. Any roll of 3, 4 or 5 gets 1 Host. A roll of 6 gets 2 hosts.

This means all our healing on multiwound units is a huge gamble and wasted dice rolls in nearly every single situation. I guess stick to the Command Trait for healing hosts/hexes

Edited August 17, 2018 by Neck-Romantic

[Keldaur]

It depends, spectral lure, you don't get to choose what you do.

If the unit is wounded you have to heal it.

If the unit doesn't have wounds allocated, then you ressurrect, and it works as @Neck-Romantic stated, you do ress models with full wounds, or you don't.

Spirit torment allows you to choose, but it works exactly like spectral lure when it comes to ressurrection. 

That's why if you are playing spirit hosts/hexwraiths you want return models slain effects such as Olynder, Rule of the Spirit hosts or the Black coach.

 

[Kirjava13]

Let's get this chat back to the real issue here: giving Sylvaneth a good raddishing. How does the Fly rule interact with Wyldwoods? If models run or charge across Wyldwoods they have a chance to get tree-buggered, but surely flying troops who can just go over the top with all the enthusiasm of Frenchman at Verdun are immune to that? 

[SleeperAgent]

30 minutes ago, Kirjava13 said:

Let's get this chat back to the real issue here: giving Sylvaneth a good raddishing. How does the Fly rule interact with Wyldwoods? If models run or charge across Wyldwoods they have a chance to get tree-buggered, but surely flying troops who can just go over the top with all the enthusiasm of Frenchman at Verdun are immune to that? 

It aspparently doesn't matter. You just don't roll for heroes or monsters. 

As someone who plays against Sylvaneth regularly, I will definitely tell you the spells are what will get you. I saw wyldwoods do almost 50 mortals to Stormcast one game. It triggers even if the spell is unbound and Sylvaneth can pump out a lot of spells. 

[Neck-Romantic]

The sylvaneth "roll as many dice as your casting roll" stuff adds up fast. 

Apply Myrmourns to suspected Branchwytch activity

[angrycontra]

2 hours ago, Kirjava13 said:

Let's get this chat back to the real issue here: giving Sylvaneth a good raddishing. How does the Fly rule interact with Wyldwoods? If models run or charge across Wyldwoods they have a chance to get tree-buggered, but surely flying troops who can just go over the top with all the enthusiasm of Frenchman at Verdun are immune to that? 

I'm pretty sure flying units can ignore wyldwood charging "deadly terrain effect". After all if you read core rules, on flying it states something like this: "...when doing any type of move (including run/charge/pile-in), flying units ignore other units and terrain AS IF THEY WEREN'T THERE..." that last bit clearly shows that charging or running across woods should have no effect. Not 100% sure if ending charge/run on woods will work on flying units though and of course when those woods awaken and slam those mw.s around, that works against flyers as well.

[AverageBoss]

12 hours ago, Neck-Romantic said:

You have to heal before you can bring back as you can only ever have 1 wounded model. 

This is a far inferior system than Invocation then.

Invocation works exactly the same way (as do gravesites). Its heal OR resurrect, not both. And its dependent on the status of the unit when used (floating wounds mean you must heal, no floating wounds mean you can attempt to bring back dead stuff).

What makes Invocation better is how plentiful it is (most Legions heroes have it), its only restriction is range (otherwise it just happens), and it can target multiple units at once depending on the character.

[AverageBoss]

Thinking about giving this list a try tomorrow. Thoughts?
 

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
Dreadblade Harrow (100)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (140)
- Artefact: Midnight Tome
Reikenor the Grimhailer (180)
Spirit Torment (120)
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
20 x Grimghast Reapers (280)
5 x Hexwraiths (160)
20 x Bladegheist Revenants (320)
Black Coach (280)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Aethervoid Pendulum (40)
Soulsnare Shackles (20)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 110
 

[Sception]

On 8/8/2018 at 8:35 PM, Tropical Ghost General said:

Weapons is chill blade. Max damage is 3, compared to 4, but the extra attack makes it more likely to get 2-3 damage. 

Lantern 100% mortality glass. Reducing charge to 1D6 and moving a unit within 24" an extra 6" is massive. 

I'm not sure the lanturn vs glass choice is so cut and dry.  The charge reduction won't affect enemy deep strikers (as they'll be more than 9" away), and the movement boost cant be used on your own deep striking units, as they come down after the hero phase.  And +1 to wound is also pretty huge (though the "units wholly within" wording can be a hassle), as is bringing back d6 chainrasps (or, better, grimghasts).

The healing spell in particular might make the lanturn better support for the chainrasps in the chainguard formation.  Sure, the formatiin bonus works with either spell, but 2d6 healing does a lot for the tar pit / attrition role that chainrasps serve.

And only a GoS with the lanturn has access to the specific magic lanturn artefacts.  Both the wychlight and the beacon are pretty good.

...

Which is not to say that the mortality glass is a bad call at all.  Both its ability and its spell are fantastic.  And most nighthaunt players will already have a GoS with Nightmare Lanturn from the starter box, so the mortality glass is almost certainly the best option to pick when assembling the birthday model.  I just dont think there's necessarily an automatic best choice between the two when choosing your army.

[GeneralZero]

Guardian of soul:

- where can I get one outside the starter box?

- where can I get the aniversary one?

- is there another design?

[Sception]

Right now the only generally available GoS is the one in the starter box with the nightmare lanturn.  The anniversary model, "Darrakar, guardian of souls", which can be built either with a nightmare lanturn or with the alternative "mortality glass" option, and includes the rules for both, is available to purchase ($35 in the US) from first party "games workshop" or "warhammer" stores, but only this year, and only on the anniversary of the store's opening.  Contact your nearest GW store and ask when their anniversary is.

Otherwise you might be able to find them on ebay or other secondary markets, at prices usually ranging anywhere between the original retail price and approximately 3x that amount.

[Espy85]

Knight of shrouds on ethereal steed (general - rules of the spirit - fallen wind pendant)

Guardian of soul (wychlight lantern - spell shadistist)

Banshee Tomb (midnight tome - soul cage)

Cairn wraith

30  grimghast reapers 
10 grimghast reapers
4 x stalker
4 x stalker
20 x chainrasp
10 x dreadscythe
10 x dreadscythe
4 x myrmourn
4 x myrmourn

The endless soulsnare shakeless
WB: Death stalker + shrieker host.

2 extra control points. 5 drops.

Behind the waves of the guest's death to send opponents shock tests to the nettles and exploit the ability of death stalkers to target the most dangerous unit. This will be my last attempt with double Warscroll battallion , I passed don't are exciting beyond the victories. I had problems at control of board. I keep the black coach out because it does not convince me. It seems like a risky list, where I kill my opponent in first or second round, or I will be brutally in trouble. Surely he will line 30 tzangor  and some enlightened (6 or 9). I will have to manage this guys and don't will be easy.
We hope nagash be with me. Ha ha ha

Sorry for my english

[Greasygeek]

Maybe I just don’t get it but can anyone find any reason to include the Shyish Reaper instead of the Aethervoid Penduloum? Both cost 40pt and are somewhat similar in there way of making damage and move, but the Reaper is harder to cast and much weaker. Am I missing something here or does the Shyish Reaper need a rewrite or update or something?

[Smavo]

Reapers strength is that it can move in more than one direction and it also goes of amount of models. So if you can somehow cross 30 models that's 30 rolls to see if you damage. And if their save is 3+ its 30 rolls at 3+.

[Neck-Romantic]

True, the reaper can be incredibly nasty, but in more specific circumstances