AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[Binkbinkplx]

That was a headache to read! I think you learned your lesson. Don't attack Enlightened unless you are absolutely sure you can either a) kill them, or b) defend against their counter! Not having a hero near your units for the Deathless Save could of made a big difference, or a KoSos to give them +1 Attack.

[Ashes]

On 11/10/2018 at 12:10 AM, Tropical Ghost General said:

I think I've realised a really good ally unit for us spooks is actually a coven throne. 

I also think of more and more allies options and already purchased the Start Collecting Malignants, Skeletons and Flesh Eaters. Beside the Coven Throne, I think Arkhan, all forms of Vampire Lords as well as Vargheists seem to be good options. So far I tried a Vampire on foot and will give Arkhan followed by the Coven Throne a try.

I would love to field a Terrorgheist but am I correct that I would lose all Allegiance Abilities of Nighthaunts and could just use the Death Abilities from the Core Book?

I feel my Nighthaunts pull me more and more into Legions of Nagash (already purchased that army book, too). So many options ? 

Edited November 12, 2018 by Ashes

[Espy85]

1 hour ago, Binkbinkplx said:

That was a headache to read! I think you learned your lesson. Don't attack Enlightened unless you are absolutely sure you can either a) kill them, or b) defend against their counter! Not having a hero near your units for the Deathless Save could of made a big difference, or a KoSos to give them +1 Attack.

the unit that lost 15 models out of 20 was protected by the mystic shield and the guardian by 12. the problem is that each enlightened attack has double or d3 damage. so maybe it goes to sign with 3 attacks and makes out 6 models, then the disks make 2 attacks and are 2d3. with 5 injuries sustained you lose from 8 to 14 models. unacceptable for an elite unit. cmq lesson learned. my elites are worth less than zero. I will only play reapers and chainrasp.?

[Kurrilino]

20 hours ago, Binkbinkplx said:

Its not from the same source, its from  different Guardian of Souls, the ability specifically reads "Add 1 to wound rolls for attacks made with melee weapons used by friendly Nighthaunt units that are wholly within 12" OF THIS MODEL. that means if a unit is wholly within 12" of multiple models, then it benefits from +1 Wound for each unique Guardian of Souls. 

If it say that models wholly within 12" of "A" nightmare lantern get +1 Wound, then it wouldn't matter how many lanterns, it would be just +1 Wound

 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2018 by Kurrilino

[MrRoff]

21 hours ago, Binkbinkplx said:

Its not from the same source, its from  different Guardian of Souls, the ability specifically reads "Add 1 to wound rolls for attacks made with melee weapons used by friendly Nighthaunt units that are wholly within 12" OF THIS MODEL. that means if a unit is wholly within 12" of multiple models, then it benefits from +1 Wound for each unique Guardian of Souls. 

If it say that models wholly within 12" of "A" nightmare lantern get +1 Wound, then it wouldn't matter how many lanterns, it would be just +1 Wound

 

Gonna play a bunch of games on thursday, really need to know if they really stack or not

[knightish]

11 minutes ago, MrRoff said:

Gonna play a bunch of games on thursday, really need to know if they really stack or not

Page 12 of the rule book in the AOS app says that modifiers are accumulative, it makes no mention of modifiers of the same name not stacking. 
However this may have been clarified in a FAQ / Errata, so I would recommend checking out the Age of Sigmar  FAQ to see if anything has gone up around modifiers. However a 1 is always a fail, as previously mentioned so the benefit to most of our units of the ability to stack is minimal

Also the confusion around the 12" or 9", the alternate GoS model with the lamp, that has a 9" bumble effect. That is likely where the confusion came from
Good luck on Thursday

Got a list of what you plan to run?

 

[dmorley21]

12 hours ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

No to deathmages. Necromancers and grims are too strong, as shown via LoN grim spam recently. As much as I'd love it to happen but I don't think changing/adding allies will help to address our issues.

I thought that the problem with Reapers in LoN was more that they can bring them back and less about Vanhel's.

All of your other changes would have to be addressed in the next GHB (points adjustments, battalions) or a new book, which for all intents and purposes is not happening. I do think that the Shroudguard and Black Coach are both at least feasible. And plenty of armies get updates from FAQ's/Errata/GHB. I don't see why Nighthaunt wouldn't.

10 hours ago, Vasshpit said:

Chiming in with a vote for: changing the foot KoS +1 to hit from a command to an aura. 

Didnt it use to be that?... O_o

I didn't know about this, as I never played 1.0. That would be quite nice.

10 hours ago, Espy85 said:

I hope there will be a way to change the result of wave of terror, or lower it to an 8+, provided that 10+ is not possible. would serve a second save to 5+ or 6+ independent of Heroes. and the black coach hero, ed need a black coach hero.  

I don't see Wave of Terror getting any better. If they were to change it, I would changed it to any successful charge made by a unit that just came up from the underworlds or a 10+ any other time. Makes the army more like the shock troops they're meant to be.

I'm glad to see there's a lot of support for making the Black Coach a leader. I really don't understand why it's not a leader.

[MrRoff]

3 hours ago, knightish said:

Got a list of what you plan to run?

Depends on who i'm meeting haha

We're currently playing 1500p games since a bunch of us can't make it to the 2000p mark, with 300p limit for allied (Since there's no rules for 1500p games) 1000p =200p allied. 1500p=300p, 2000p=400p.

So my list is kinda basic i guess:
Alliance: Nighthaunt
Realm: Syish/Ulgu
x2 relics

Leaders:

• Knight of shrounds on etheral steed - Midnight Tome/ Doppelganger Cloak
• Guardian of souls - /General/ - Beacon of Nagashizzar  , Lifestealer, Ruler of the spirit hosts
• Lady Olynder - Shademist
• Coven Throne / Allied
  
  
  Battleline:
   
• 20x Chainrasps
• 20x Chainrasps
• 10x Grimghasts
• 10x Hexwraiths
  
  Battalion:
• Chainguard

1420p ~
Perhaps gonna get some extra commandpoints or throw in a Lord Executoioner just to get up to 1500p.

 

Edited November 13, 2018 by MrRoff

[Tropical Ghost General]

18 hours ago, Vasshpit said:

Didnt it use to be that?... O_o

No, was always a command ability, just they used to be limited to one per turn and only from your general. 

18 hours ago, Espy85 said:

a unit of chainghast

Sorry to hear that the game didn't go well. When the dice gids aren't in your favour there isn't much that you can do. While I agree with you that without getting any 10+ charges in a game makes us hit like a wet squib, I don't think it should be lowered or made modifiable, as it's already a pretty broken army mechanic. 

So how did you feel that the chainghasts performed as a unit @Espy85? 

[Tropical Ghost General]

17 hours ago, Ashes said:

I would love to field a Terrorgheist

I feel the same about the standard zombie dragon. But you are correct, taking both ghosts and terrorgheist is either done in LoN (if the ghost units are from the chosen list) or from the DEATH Grand Alliance, which is not a good choice if it can be avoided. 

15 hours ago, Espy85 said:

only play reapers and chainrasp.?

Our elites are squishy but if they can't do anything (with the extra attacks and better hit/wound roll requirements) then grims and rasps will be just an ineffective. Against enlightened, having a small unit if harridans would work as they only have 6 bravery, and anything 7 or less bravery with the harridans ability and AoD is at -1 to hit. They are re-rolling all failed hit and wound, but only if the harridans had attacked first. And the WoT 10+ doesn't trigger the enlightened re-roll ability either, as WoT is the charge phase and the enlightened ability is onlu trigger in the combat phase. 

I've found recently that we need to be super selective about who our units attacks, we don't have the luxury if having units that can take on any target, we have to really pick our targets carefully. 

[Tropical Ghost General]

8 hours ago, dmorley21 said:

I thought that the problem with Reapers in LoN was more that they can bring them back and less about Vanhel's.

Just the resurrecting dead units is strong but being able to heal with deathly invocation, being able to pass off wounds to any summonable unit are all great benefits, but Vanhel's allows the unit to attack twice, in a pure spook list if a unit got a 10+ charge and had Vanhel's on them, then they'd get to pile in and attack 3 times in a turn, which is a bit broken imo. It can help to overcome behemoths with doppelganger, as you can charge, not attack, they attack, and then you actually get a chance to hit back, whereas normally you wouldn't. 

 

7 hours ago, MrRoff said:

Depends on who i'm meeting haha

Ain't that the truth ?. Just wanted to re-confirm what I've already said and what @knightish said that the GoS +1 to wound stacks. You'll be fine to do it but also as I've already mentioned it's also a waste of a buff aura for nearly all of our units.

One thing that strikes me as odd with the list is the amount of relics. The KoSos has 2 relics which he can't do as no hero can ever have more than one. Also the GoS has a relic with the beacon of nagashazzir artefact, which gives you 3 relics in total. If you keep the midnight tome on the KoSos, what spell are you thinking of using? 

You are also semi-correct to go with 300pts for allies, as it's 20% of your army that can be allies. Now I've mentioned this to you before in another thread, but it states in either the BRB or the GHB18 about game sizes, it has 3 types, 1k, 2k and 2.5k, with a 250pt tolerance either way. 1.5k generally falls into the 2k category for determining battleline limits and stuff at nearly all comps. So amongst friends you can choose what you want but be prepared with your future list building that you follow the correct limits if you are looking at doing any comp play, because at 1.5k you can actually get 6 heroes and 400pts of allies, which is a coven throne and a vamp lord for allies. 

My general thoughts on the list is the lack of punch. You have 10 grims and 10 hexs. The 10 hexs are OK but it's a lot of points for not many attacks in a unit that won't be able to all get in range on most taegets, as they are only 1", they really need to be changed to 2". The 10 grims might evaporate quite quickly. You are also taking all battleline, no special units at all. For me personally I would swap the hexs for 10 more grims to make the unit 20 strong and 10 blades/harridans. You will want to use the spare points to bring along our only (and unofficial) buffing support endless spell, Cogs. 

Edited November 13, 2018 by Tropical Ghost General

[Espy85]

@Tropical Ghost General , chainghast do not work. especially in melee battles. the shot I could not prove it because of the limits of the range of ulgu.  the amount of their melee weapon is too much influenced by the dimensions of the opposing bases.
indeed we must carefully choose what to attack, but we must also reason from the army of assault, we must first thin out the models of the target units and then load exploiting the ambushes. at this point the grimghast are forced to deploy them, as a final assault, while units like the dreadscythe will be the first to attack, with the buffs of k.o.s.

[MrRoff]

13 hours ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

 

Ain't that the truth ?. Just wanted to re-confirm what I've already said and what @knightish said that the GoS +1 to wound stacks. You'll be fine to do it but also as I've already mentioned it's also a waste of a buff aura for nearly all of our units.

One thing that strikes me as odd with the list is the amount of relics. The KoSos has 2 relics which he can't do as no hero can ever have more than one. Also the GoS has a relic with the beacon of nagashazzir artefact, which gives you 3 relics in total. If you keep the midnight tome on the KoSos, what spell are you thinking of using? 

 

Oh, sorry that I didn't specify the "/" marks. 

I only have 2 spots for relics the "/" is either one or the other for KoSos depending on who I'm up against. 

If I would give KoSos the midnight tome, either spectral tether, or reaping scythe. 

I'm just trying to build a team with the models I have, the meta here isn't really established, and people aren't that competitive, (unless tournaments) we just play for fun. 

I would love 10 more grims, or vampire lord, or anything else but sadly this close to Christmas I can't really spend that much on models atm. 

Blades/grims are kinda expensive bought from gw, especially when you're an student lol 

And when all your friends are withing the 980p-1500p mark I don't wanna go to crazy. 

Recently bought a stormcast VS khorne starter box extremely cheap, gonna either play khorne or sell everything on eBay and make a good profit so I can buy more ghost bois 

 

Thanks for the feedback anyway! 

[knightish]

1 hour ago, MrRoff said:

Oh, sorry that I didn't specify the "/" marks. 

I only have 2 spots for relics the "/" is either one or the other for KoSos depending on who I'm up against. 

If I would give KoSos the midnight tome, either spectral tether, or reaping scythe. 

I'm just trying to build a team with the models I have, the meta here isn't really established, and people aren't that competitive, (unless tournaments) we just play for fun. 

I would love 10 more grims, or vampire lord, or anything else but sadly this close to Christmas I can't really spend that much on models atm. 

Blades/grims are kinda expensive bought from gw, especially when you're an student lol 

And when all your friends are withing the 980p-1500p mark I don't wanna go to crazy. 

Recently bought a stormcast VS khorne starter box extremely cheap, gonna either play khorne or sell everything on eBay and make a good profit so I can buy more ghost bois 

 

Thanks for the feedback anyway! 

Hi MrRoff

I have some maybe help for you? Who knows.

This is my current list and so far I have won every game with it (casual Level) I think you could replicate it (in some sense) with what you own
 

Current 2k List:

Allegiance: Nighthaunt

Leaders
Dreadblade Harrow (100)
- Artefact: Slitter 
Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (240)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (140)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts 
- Artefact: Headsman's Judgement 
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul Cage

Battleline
5 x Hexwraiths (160)
5 x Hexwraiths (160)
30 x Grimghast Reapers (360)
10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)

Units
12 x Myrmourn Banshees (210)

Behemoths
Black Coach (280)

Battalions
Deathriders (130)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 107


Now looking at what you own this is what I would suggest. 
Split the hex Wraiths into 2 units of 5. Either leave them in the ground until you need them and bring them up onto objectives in the opponents back field to score those sweet sweet VP. Or keep them back in the mid-field and hide them behind terrain and again jump them out and yoink their stuff. 

I use them like (I am guess Grimgast stalkers are meant to be used) hunt small units, weak heros etc 
The 5+ mortal wound is only if you pass over a unit, you can 'fly' over the unit and back to the side you originated as long as you have finish your more 3" + away from the unit... so within 8" at the start of the movement phase. 

I would up one of your units to a 30 man for the ChainWrasps and a single 10 (if you can with the battalion)
Use the 10 man to hold your objectives / backline. 

30 man provides an anvil / punch back. 

GOS camps out with the 30 man. 

The Coven throne can also head on up with the 30 man to power it up

I would give the KoS the artifact Headsman Judgement - Use him to go hunt small units / heros. 
Between 4 2+/2+ rend 1 dmg 2 attacks + -1 Bravery he should be able to scatter peoples flanking units & chaff walls.

Lady O use her to snipe out any big scary heros / units, but always keep her behind your wall of 30.

Remember to always have a Command point saved back to auto pass your bravery check on the 30 man, to prevent a good alpha wiping them out in 1 go, and not being able to ress a bunch of them

My 2c, best of luck!

 

[MrRoff]

8 hours ago, knightish said:

Hi MrRoff

I have some maybe help for you? Who knows.

This is my current list and so far I have won every game with it (casual Level) I think you could replicate it (in some sense) with what you own
 

Current 2k List:

Allegiance: Nighthaunt

Leaders
Dreadblade Harrow (100)
- Artefact: Slitter 
Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (240)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (140)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts 
- Artefact: Headsman's Judgement 
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul Cage

Battleline
5 x Hexwraiths (160)
5 x Hexwraiths (160)
30 x Grimghast Reapers (360)
10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)

Units
12 x Myrmourn Banshees (210)

Behemoths
Black Coach (280)

Battalions
Deathriders (130)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 107


Now looking at what you own this is what I would suggest. 
Split the hex Wraiths into 2 units of 5. Either leave them in the ground until you need them and bring them up onto objectives in the opponents back field to score those sweet sweet VP. Or keep them back in the mid-field and hide them behind terrain and again jump them out and yoink their stuff. 

I would up one of your units to a 30 man for the ChainWrasps and a single 10 (if you can with the battalion)

I would give the KoS the artifact Headsman Judgement - Use him to go hunt small units / heros. 
Between 4 2+/2+ rend 1 dmg 2 attacks + -1 Bravery he should be able to scatter peoples flanking units & chaff walls.

 

That setup surprisingly look like when I started with my army haha (- Dreadblade, grims) even the same relics as the first couple of games I played lol

I've won about 13/15 games, lost to sylvaneth ancient treelords with some relic that makes them have a +2 save rerolling  1s and immune to rend - 1, while having attacks (both ranged and melee) that does 1d6 damage... That's scary especially when we played a mission in his favor. 

 

Sadly the battalion needs 2 units of chainrasps with 20 in each, giving the guardian of souls spectral lure 2d6 heal /resurrect, and with the relic +3, so minimum I ress is 5, while max is 15.

I love sitter or headmans judgement for KoSos! I mostly use splitter against stormcast or other high wound units, while headmans judgement or balefire blade is better against hordes. 

Next up for me I think is getting more grims or a unit of blades! 

Anyway thanks for the tips! 

Edited November 14, 2018 by MrRoff

[sorokyl]

Hi guys.  

I have lots of armies, but no Death army.  I was gonna play FEC but then someone else in my playgroup jumped on it. 
I am on the fence about starting Nighthaunt,  Here are my preferences/thoughts/situation:

1. Soul wars models are (relatively cheap)
2. I enjoy fast/easy to paint, which I consider nighthaunt
3. I do not want a horde army (i'd want  <50 models in a 2k list, the fewer the better). I am starting moonclan at the same time... 
4. I really really love the Mortis engine kit (any variant). I also like the Mortarch kit (any varient). I'll probably still get a FEC SC box just to paint.  Maybe one day own a nagash, but not anytime soon. So maybe I would sometimes play as soup, or at least with allies
5. I just play with friends, not that competitive

Based on the above, is Nighthaunt for me? What are the core models that you think one "has to have" for nighthaunt, or a priority list of must have models? 

Thanks. 

 

[Tropical Ghost General]

3 minutes ago, sorokyl said:

i'd want  <50 models in a 2k list

For this reason alone ghosts are not the army for you. I regularly bring 100+ models to a 2k game. I once brought 150+ for a giggle. 

Also the mortis engine is not Nighthaunt and neither are the 3 standard mortarchs. Another reason why you might prefer LoN over Nighthaunt, as you can run 19 models in a 2k list if you want. 

[MrRoff]

1 minute ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

For this reason alone ghosts are not the army for you. I regularly bring 100+ models to a 2k game. I once brought 150+ for a giggle. 

Also the mortis engine is not Nighthaunt and neither are the 3 standard mortarchs. Another reason why you might prefer LoN over Nighthaunt, as you can run 19 models in a 2k list if you want. 

I agree, nighthaunts are more of an horde army mostly 

Same with LoN but you can play big boys like nagash, zombie dragon, mortis engine, coven throne, vampire lords, arkhan the black and so on 

[sorokyl]

So basically, Even though there are 4 different battlelines (and only need 30 models for it in any case) lots of heroes, and some possible allies, you can't really make a viable list like that. The only decent nighthaunt army is a BUNCH of chainrasps/reapers? 

Example for Nurgle, you could play 60-90 plaguebearers, or get away with 20 blightkings + some heroes. 

[adreal]

You could run 3 units of 3 spirit hosts, but you wont do much, if anything except for making wooOooO sounds when you move them 

Edited November 14, 2018 by adreal

[Slawek]

Hi nighthaunt players.

You have a lot of good idea for doing nighthaunt betters. So write your thoughst on warscroll points on matched Play. What's shoul go change ? Its two weeks for share opinion In rhe comments for post on GW AOS website. 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=931116963751764&id=452117934985005

[MrRoff]

Quick question! 

 

Models that flee in the battleshock phase, can they be ressed? They weren't slayed, and almost all healing only return slain models 

[CaptainSoup]

19 minutes ago, MrRoff said:

Quick question! 

 

Models that flee in the battleshock phase, can they be ressed? They weren't slayed, and almost all healing only return slain models 

When models flee from a failed bravery check, they are considered slain. This means that you can bring back those models since they are technically "slain." The same can be said for models that fail unit coherency or died during a deep strike (could not place them on the table).

[Fulkes]

20 hours ago, adreal said:

You could run 3 units of 3 spirit hosts, but you wont do much, if anything except for making wooOooO sounds when you move them 

Well there goes my battleplan.

More seriously, I've been on the fence about Nighthaunt lately. As much as I like my spooky scary skeletons, my FLGS doesn't really stock them, but they do have that nice new Soul Wars box and it comes with a rulebook I need....

It's not that I hate the Nighthaunt, just more that I'm afraid I'll be biting off too much by working on two horde style death armies.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Fulkes

[adreal]

Well on the plus side of mass nighthaunt, all you need is white spray, the oxide technical paint and some baking material, so paint wise it will be less intense then moonclan