AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[Thamalys]

15 hours ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

So 3 games against lizards. Twice was coalesced, once starborn. All 3 games were over by turn 2. I rolled well below average throughout all 3 games as well 😂. The joys of power creep 😂. 

Yep - not much we (or indeed, the majority of other factions as well) can do, really... perhaps taking the MSU approach to the extreme - so as to provide some form of target saturation?

[Tropical Ghost General]

1 hour ago, Thamalys said:

Yep - not much we (or indeed, the majority of other factions as well) can do, really... perhaps taking the MSU approach to the extreme - so as to provide some form of target saturation?

So something that helped a lot was double vamp lord, for twice the healing. It's sending me down a 'how to max out guaranteed healing not requiring spells' rabbit hole with the list building now 😂. 

[Garxia]

The "not so surprising" rise of Kharadrons,  the incoming Lumineth Sentinels spam  and ranged mortal wounds everywhere, have me worried.

No tourneys here right now cause of the situation, but I'm theoryhammering about a list with TONS of wounds. If we can't kill them, maybe we can try to flood the objectives , pray to Nagash, bore them, and then have a little chance of winning. 

Very basic idea is trying to sit chainrasps on objectives with chars, Dreadblade + Spirit Hosts, and do some scalpel attacks with Grimghasts and Revenants.

Without further ado, the list:

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
- General
- Command Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (120)
- Artefact: Pendant of the Fell Wind
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (130)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist
Spirit Torment (120)

Battleline
40 x Chainrasp Horde (280)
40 x Chainrasp Horde (280)
30 x Grimghast Reapers (420)
6 x Spirit Hosts (240)

Units
20 x Bladegheist Revenants (320)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 169

Have somebody tried playing hordehaunts lately? Any experiences with 2 full blocks of 40 Chainrasps? Do you think this will work? 

Edited September 29, 2020 by Garxia

[dmorley21]

On 9/29/2020 at 10:57 AM, Garxia said:

The "not so surprising" rise of Kharadrons,  the incoming Lumineth Sentinels spam  and ranged mortal wounds everywhere, have me worried.

Have somebody tried playing hordehaunts lately? Any experiences with 2 full blocks of 40 Chainrasps? Do you think this will work? 

I was looking into starting a Kharadron army after their new book dropped in January, and even with the points changes I don't think they are something that Nighthaunt need to fear. In fact, Nighthaunt seem to be a pretty hard counter against them. They can't deal mortal wounds with any regularity, and they rely on their mobility and being able to stay out of combat. Nighthaunt can pretty much keep up with them in terms of mobility for the first three turns, and can really put them in a bad position. 

As for horde haunts, that's simply not my style but I have to imagine it would work out quite well. I'd say The Condemned battalion is really strong if you're running to full blocks of Chainrasps. 

[frostfire]

What do NH players think about the dolorous guard becoming illegal? Is that a good promption?

[SleeperAgent]

1 minute ago, frostfire said:

What do NH players think about the dolorous guard becoming illegal? Is that a good promption?

They FAQ'd it to be legal. It is our only legitimate way to keep the queen alive. NH desperately need a hero that has 10+ wounds like all the other legions, or need to have Olynder straight up become immune to mortal wounds. (cost balance required obv)

[Malakithe]

Hordes + Hexwraiths. Dont know if this would work but it would at least look cool. And it could be tough to grind through

Allegiance: Nighthaunt

Dreadblade Harrow (90)
- General
- Command Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (120)
- Artefact: Balefire Blade
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (130)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Spectral Tether
- Infernal Lantern (Artefact): Beacon of Nagashizzar
Lord Executioner (80)
- Artefact: Pendant of the Fell Wind
40 x Chainrasp Horde (280)
40 x Chainrasp Horde (280)
10 x Hexwraiths (260)
10 x Hexwraiths (260)
10 x Hexwraiths (260)
Chainguard (120)
The Dolorous Guard (120)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Wounds: 161
 

[Thamalys]

1 hour ago, Malakithe said:

Hordes + Hexwraiths. Dont know if this would work but it would at least look cool. And it could be tough to grind through

Allegiance: Nighthaunt

Dreadblade Harrow (90)
- General
- Command Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (120)
- Artefact: Balefire Blade
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (130)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Spectral Tether
- Infernal Lantern (Artefact): Beacon of Nagashizzar
Lord Executioner (80)
- Artefact: Pendant of the Fell Wind
40 x Chainrasp Horde (280)
40 x Chainrasp Horde (280)
10 x Hexwraiths (260)
10 x Hexwraiths (260)
10 x Hexwraiths (260)
Chainguard (120)
The Dolorous Guard (120)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Wounds: 161
 

An interesting one. My thoughts:

- 240 points in battalions sounds like a bit too much - that's 30 Rasps, there!

- My suggestion would be that of dropping the Dolorous Guard: this is because you want your DreadBlade Harrow to zip around the board and making good use of Spectral Summons (the one combo that makes NHs half-decent) but it's going to be very tricky to bring the two units of HexWraiths (the two that make up the Dolorous Guard) along for the ride. This battalion works very well with Olynder as a general, but with a DreadBlade as general... I'm not sure it's the best choice.

- I would personally drop the Dolorous Guard and two units of HexWraiths to include instead something with a bit of damage output. Chainrasps and HexWraiths have ZERO punch...

Hope this helps!

[tvih]

I think I never did end up posting models here. Since I can't talk about rules much as I STILL haven't gotten around to actually playing - and in general my army project has been standing still for over six months - I guess I might as well show some models at this point, now that it's spooky season starting and all. First pic was my Soul Wars stuff painted. I've started on some other stuff which are mostly undercoated, and completed Olynder minus the banshees, but mostly that's it so far.

But I reckoned I'd try to get at least something done for the spooky season right off the bat, so I finally got around to trying some of my basing ideas for the army in practice as per the second picture. Unfortunately I'm not all that happy with the cobblestone, and I guess the "dirt" looks a bit too much like rocks instead. Until I started typing this I forgot I was supposed to try some much finer sand, so we'll see how that works later on.

And actually I forgot I had more pics already in an online album over at imgur, it has closeups of the "special" models if you're interested: https://imgur.com/a/UyDyRkc

Edited October 2, 2020 by tvih

[Malakithe]

3 minutes ago, tvih said:

I think I never did end up posting models here. Since I can't talk about rules much as I STILL haven't gotten around to actually playing - and in general my army project has been standing still for over six months - I guess I might as well show some models at this point, now that it's spooky season starting and all. First pic was my Soul Wars stuff painted. I've started on some other stuff which are mostly undercoated, and completed Olynder minus the banshees, but mostly that's it so far.

But I reckoned I'd try to get at least something done for the spooky season right off the bat, so I finally got around to trying some of my basing ideas for the army in practice as per the second picture. Unfortunately I'm not all that happy with the cobblestone, and I guess the "dirt" looks a bit too much like rocks instead. Until I started typing this I forgot I was supposed to try some much finer sand, so we'll see how that works later on.

These look familiar...

[tvih]

You might've seen the army pic in the AoS sub-reddit upon a time if you frequent it. I painted them and posted them there around February, I think.

[Malakithe]

49 minutes ago, Thamalys said:

An interesting one. My thoughts:

- 240 points in battalions sounds like a bit too much - that's 30 Rasps, there!

- My suggestion would be that of dropping the Dolorous Guard: this is because you want your DreadBlade Harrow to zip around the board and making good use of Spectral Summons (the one combo that makes NHs half-decent) but it's going to be very tricky to bring the two units of HexWraiths (the two that make up the Dolorous Guard) along for the ride. This battalion works very well with Olynder as a general, but with a DreadBlade as general... I'm not sure it's the best choice.

- I would personally drop the Dolorous Guard and two units of HexWraiths to include instead something with a bit of damage output. Chainrasps and HexWraiths have ZERO punch...

Hope this helps!

I thought the Dolorous Guard had damage output compared to the others

[Malakithe]

1 minute ago, tvih said:

You might've seen the army pic in the AoS sub-reddit upon a time if you frequent it. I painted them and posted them there around February, I think.

Nope. I usually try to avoid reddit as a rule of life. But i have seen similar pics on FB and Instagram

[tvih]

2 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

Nope. I usually try to avoid reddit as a rule of life. But i have seen similar pics on FB and Instagram

Well, they're definitely not anything special quality-wise and Soul Wars model are common so my meager efforts certainly won't stand out much as different 😅 Nice models to paint anyway, since they're quick compared to my 40k armies. Biggest annoyance is trying to get rid of the gaps, Bladeguard are especially obnoxious for that I found. That's where my project kinda halted, actually.

[Malakithe]

10 minutes ago, tvih said:

Well, they're definitely not anything special quality-wise and Soul Wars model are common so my meager efforts certainly won't stand out much as different 😅 Nice models to paint anyway, since they're quick compared to my 40k armies. Biggest annoyance is trying to get rid of the gaps, Bladeguard are especially obnoxious for that I found. That's where my project kinda halted, actually.

I like the blue scheme. Very wow Lich King. Im following the instagram that I saw that had the similar scheme. Some of my fav models ive seen

[lare2]

I finally picked up Wrath of the Everchosen (more for the lore than anything else) and loved the depiction of the NH in it. Their attack on the Chaos stronghold at the Endgate really portrays them as a powerful shock force, coming out of nowhere, which pulverises anything that comes in their path. Shame it's not like this on the tabletop... 

Anywho, it got me itching to buy more NH and I've just popped out on my lunch to pick up some Mortal Realms lingering in Forbidden Planet. I'm now the proud owner of 20 Dreadscythe. Am I right in thinking they're still not that good? I remember looking at them when the book was released and just thought... meh. I've never really considered them since and focused on Grimghast, etc. How are they these days? Anyone got any experience?  

[tvih]

I was under the impression the Dreadscythes were fairly good? I really don't like the models personally though (it's the damn hair) so I've been trying to sell mine off, without luck (they're from the Court of the Craven King so I didn't specifically buy them).

[Sception]

Haven't heard much good or ill about the dreadscythes.  They don't seem like a must have or a never take.  But there's so many similar 'semi-elite ghosty 'infantry' units' in the faction - from grimscythes to bladegheists to glaivewraithes to harridans to banshees that it's really hard for more than one or two of them to ever stand out.  I don't know how GW ever expected so many redundant units to be worth taking.  Frankly Grimghasts & bladegheists should have been a dual kit, and harridans & banshees should have been the same unit altogether.  And grimghasts themselves are so large and hang out so far from their bases that they just don't look right to me in the large units they seem to want to be fielded in.  Should have been a 2 wound elite unit meant to run in units of 5 to 15, not a 1 wound semi-horde unit running in 20 to 30.

But hindsight's 20/20 and all.

Even with that, the main thing stopping me from buying into this army is the absurd price on chainrasps.  The small weak battleline unit of something that wants to be a horde army, but priced higher than mortek guard....

Aesthetically, the nighthaunt range has such a great overall look and feel, but when you look closer the terrible rules and product decisions keep stacking higher and higher, and really hold the army back, to the point that I really can't recommend them to interested new players at all.

[EnixLHQ]

Dreadscythes are extremely good... If you don't mind spending CP on them.

At base they won't do as much damage as Bladegheists. But you can pretty much match them for a CP spent on a Knight of Shrouds command ability. Pay 2 and then they become amazing. Or, pair them with a Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed and spend the 1 CP to pretty much equal the 2CP buff.

You don't see this often, though, because it's expensive. Not only are you investing your really limited CP to make them perform, you're also pairing them with a valuable hero that might do better buffing a different unit (same 1 CP on Bladegheists, for example). And, the battalions that the Knights can go in are just better when you consider the 5+ Frienzied save only the Bladegheists can get.

[tvih]

Yeah that's one major thing for me, they're sort of the same damage-dealing role as the Bladegheists - and the Bladegheists are like the coolest-looking NH unit to me, as compared to the lackluster Dreadscythe models.

[lare2]

Thanks for the feedback all - much appreciated.

1 hour ago, tvih said:

they're sort of the same damage-dealing role...

Think I implied they're rubbish in my original post. This is basically what I meant. They're comparable to others and no where near as cool looking, in my eyes. There really is too much similarity between some of our units. 

I'd originally decided against them, wanting to focus on other units, but the offer through Mortal Realms was too good to pass up. Mortal Realms really is a cool way to pick up all the bits of the range you're missing. I did the same thing with Conquest for my DG.

You never know as well, the new tome (when it finally comes) might make Dreadscythe the new hot stuff... and when it does, I'll have 20 of them waiting and raring to go!

[Landohammer]

Hey guys, just played my first ever game with NH vs Mawtribes (and my first game in 8 weeks so forgive any errors). Here is a quick rundown. List at the bottom. Scenario was scorched earth.

Turn one I deepstriked Hexwraiths and Knight on Steed right in front of his large block of Gluttons and somehow managed to roll an 11 on the charge (risky move I know).  I burnt a CP for the knight buff and deleted the gluttons with minimal casualties.  On his turn he pushed up with his units and easily destroyed the Hexwraiths with his Ironguts (Iron guts are really scary)

Turn 2 I ran the Knight onto the objective the dead gluttons were guarding and burnt it. Coach powered up and killed a giant. My bladegeists deepstriked and charged his leadbealchers but failed to kill them. Meanwhile his Iron guts charge and wipe out 20 Harridans while his other large unit of gluttons avenged the giant by killing my coach. Bladegeists at least manage to take (and burn!) the objective his leadbelchers were standing on. 

Turn 3 I push 20  Grimghast reapers into his overextended iron guts and roll a 10 for the double fight.  I do a ton of damage but a few Ironguts survive and somehow kill 16 Reapers. (did i mention iron guts are scary?) I am out of CP so the rest run. Elsewhere my 2 surviving Bladegeists finish the leadbelchers and burn another one of his objectives.

Turn 4 - My last unit of hexwraiths make a  charge into his last unit of Gluttons but roll poorly on their attacks and die horribly lol. My Guardian of Souls and Spirit Torment then make a desperate charge into his 2 remaining ironguts and an epic fight ensues. Spirit Torment dies, but so do both of his Ironguts, leaving a severely wounded Guardian of Souls left. Soul Cage was clutch here because it let me swing before him two combats in a row. 

Turn 5 - I have nothing left but the Guardian of Souls, however I burn a CP to auto-6 run the Guardian of Souls onto his last objective and burn it. He retaliates by sending his unit of Gluttons to kill it and thus table me.

 Tabled but final score 24-11 Nighthaunt win!

List

Knight on Steed

Spirit Torment

Guardian of Souls

10 Hexwraith

10 Hexwraith

Dolorous Guard

20 Grimghast Reaper

20 Dreadscythe Harridan

10 Bladegeist

Black Coach

 

 

 

[EnixLHQ]

8 hours ago, Landohammer said:

Hey guys, just played my first ever game with NH vs Mawtribes (and my first game in 8 weeks so forgive any errors). Here is a quick rundown. List at the bottom. Scenario was scorched earth.

[stuff that happened]

 Tabled but final score 24-11 Nighthaunt win!

Yep. Sounds about right. Great job!

[dmorley21]

22 hours ago, tvih said:

I was under the impression the Dreadscythes were fairly good?

I like them a lot in small units. A unit of 5 or 10 can do a surprising amount of damage and often catch my opponents off guard. The way I play, I prefer them to Bladegheists. 

[Thamalys]

2 minutes ago, dmorley21 said:

I like them a lot in small units. A unit of 5 or 10 can do a surprising amount of damage and often catch my opponents off guard. The way I play, I prefer them to Bladegheists. 

Fair. I'm not questioning Dreadscythes are good - they are (now. eventually. after a few rounds of point changes...). As a counterpoint to your preference in terms of playstyle, though, I personally still prefer Bladegheists; not so much because of the damage (these days, we are laughing stock anyway in that regard) but because of their incredibly useful ability to retreat and charge. Like everything Nighthaunt, Bladegheists fly. They can retreat (8") AND run (nothing prevents you from doing that, a possibility often overlooked!) AND charge - think of the crazy board control that you can achieve with an ability that is inbuilt and basically comes for free. That's just my preference of course - I find that investing in movement shenanigans is more efficient (with Nighthaunt, I mean) than trying to increase our damage output.