AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[EnixLHQ]

Considering the first look at a real book won't be until Saturday, and that digital downloads will be a huge deal for more reasons than just a cutoff date (covid), I'm willing to bet we'll see the battalions.

If not, it's a simple matter to email them and ask for an official opinion and stance on Nighthaunt. That's been great for me to learn certain ways to play them that wasn't readily apparent with their lack of presence on the tournament scene. If enough people ask they'll address it.

[ACBelMutie]

29 minutes ago, EnixLHQ said:

Considering the first look at a real book won't be until Saturday, and that digital downloads will be a huge deal for more reasons than just a cutoff date (covid), I'm willing to bet we'll see the battalions.

If not, it's a simple matter to email them and ask for an official opinion and stance on Nighthaunt. That's been great for me to learn certain ways to play them that wasn't readily apparent with their lack of presence on the tournament scene. If enough people ask they'll address it.

The books has been released this tuesday in a lot of shops. I didn't get my copy because of reasons, but the book is waiting for me since Tuesday, so a lot of people have the book at 5his moment.

Greetings 

[EnixLHQ]

I suppose that could be true, depending on regions. Here in the Pacific Northwest pre-orders opened on Saturday, and delivery at the earliest is this coming Saturday, a week delay.

At any rate, the rest of this still stands. GW was clear about it.

[LordPrometheus]

9 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

I suppose that could be true, depending on regions. Here in the Pacific Northwest pre-orders opened on Saturday, and delivery at the earliest is this coming Saturday, a week delay.

At any rate, the rest of this still stands. GW was clear about it.

Yeah, I can't see GW giving us the new battalions only to take them away 7 months later. That seems insane, especially since covid happened and ruined most of the tournaments.

Edited July 9, 2020 by LordPrometheus

[Joseph Mackay]

4 minutes ago, LordPrometheus said:

Yeah, I can't see GW giving us the new battalions only to take them away 7 months later. That seems insane, especially since covid happened and ruined most of the tournaments.

What about the battalions from the dual army boxes that had points but were made not legal after the GHB release (Carrion Empire, Looncurse, Feast Of Bones, Atherwar, Wrath & Rupture)

it seems that gw don’t like ‘limited’ availability items being allowed in matched play due to some perceived belief that it’s ‘unfair’ or a disadvantage that not everyone can access it

[BaylorCorvette]

1 hour ago, Joseph Mackay said:

What about the battalions from the dual army boxes that had points but were made not legal after the GHB release (Carrion Empire, Looncurse, Feast Of Bones, Atherwar, Wrath & Rupture)

it seems that gw don’t like ‘limited’ availability items being allowed in matched play due to some perceived belief that it’s ‘unfair’ or a disadvantage that not everyone can access it

The organization that I compete in (The Texas Masters) has deemed some of those battalions legal for matched play since they have matched play points, are comprised of still valid and legal units and haven't been specifically called out by GW as being invalid. An exception would be Khorne's "The Gorechosen" since that is comprised of 8 Heroes which is more than the max number if Heroes you can bring.

 

So I think those Battalions from dual army box sets and from White Dwarf are up for interpretation to the TO / Organization (assuming they have matched play points).

[dmorley21]

16 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

Considering the first look at a real book won't be until Saturday, and that digital downloads will be a huge deal for more reasons than just a cutoff date (covid), I'm willing to bet we'll see the battalions.

If not, it's a simple matter to email them and ask for an official opinion and stance on Nighthaunt. That's been great for me to learn certain ways to play them that wasn't readily apparent with their lack of presence on the tournament scene. If enough people ask they'll address it.

I hope you're right. Out of curiosity, what is something GW has cleared up for you when you have emailed them? I've never tried emailing them before. 

2 hours ago, Joseph Mackay said:

What about the battalions from the dual army boxes that had points but were made not legal after the GHB release (Carrion Empire, Looncurse, Feast Of Bones, Atherwar, Wrath & Rupture)

it seems that gw don’t like ‘limited’ availability items being allowed in matched play due to some perceived belief that it’s ‘unfair’ or a disadvantage that not everyone can access it

Just thinking about intent, these seem pretty different than White Dwarf battalions. The intent of starter set battalions is so that players can play against each other if they split the boxset. They're more of a toss in - people are buying that box for the models and the savings, not for the battalions. Meanwhile, people are specifically purchasing copies of White Dwarf magazine based on battalions. So it may make sense to ignore box set battalions, but it's sort of self defeating to negate White Dwarf battalions as that's literally a selling point for some of their issues. 

[EnixLHQ]

12 hours ago, dmorley21 said:

Out of curiosity, what is something GW has cleared up for you when you have emailed them? I've never tried emailing them before.

When I was first starting out and couldn't find any useful data on NH at the tournament scene I wrote in sort of asking why that was. I got into how I had been playing them and losing casually, too. The reply didn't go into detail, just more along the lines of "around here we like our NH a bit more "woundy." In another someone said that the new battalions reflected "they way they test internally" and "they struggled to find ways to show the player base and thought new battalions could do just that."

Like most things GW they weren't straight forward and open to interpretation. I took the first clue to mean to lean more heavily in mortal wounds. I took the second to mean to be more mobile, if not via calvary then just in general. Since taking both of those to heart my lists were so much better.

[Joseph Mackay]

Something has just occurred to me: looking back at the ghb18, ghb19 and December 2019 points updates, it looks like gw changed points just to change them back, almost like gw felt the battletome points were correct but they had to look like they were doing something to address balance issues.

thoughts? Was The Black Coach ever worth 280pts? Olynder and Kurdoss worth more than 200pts?

[Greasygeek]

16 minutes ago, Joseph Mackay said:

Was The Black Coach ever worth 280pts? Olynder and Kurdoss worth more than 200pts?

Well if you look in the NH tome thy started out costing:

Olynder: 240pt

Kurdoss: 220.

[Joseph Mackay]

13 minutes ago, Greasygeek said:

Well if you look in the NH tome thy started out costing:

Olynder: 240pt

Kurdoss: 220.

Wait what? They’re 200 and 180 in mine. Are you telling me they actually DO update the battletomes in the AoS app? (Worth pointing out that the errata for Soul Cage hasn’t been applied nor has the December 2019 points changes)

[Sauriv]

Not mentioning the white dwarf battalions in the new GHB20, does this mean that they are no longer available? 

[Qrow]

Can anyone with a physical copy of the 2020 GHB confirm the point costs of Reikenor and Kurdoss for me, because my digital copy has different values to some of the leaks

[Oak7603]

21 minutes ago, Qrow said:

Can anyone with a physical copy of the 2020 GHB confirm the point costs of Reikenor and Kurdoss for me, because my digital copy has different values to some of the leaks

Reikenor is 160

Kurdoss is 180 

[Oak7603]

10 hours ago, Joseph Mackay said:

Wait what? They’re 200 and 180 in mine. Are you telling me they actually DO update the battletomes in the AoS app? (Worth pointing out that the errata for Soul Cage hasn’t been applied nor has the December 2019 points changes)

I don't think so as the errata changed the Dreadblade Harrows to 90 but they're 100 in the pdf AoS battletome and in the physical book but 90 in the 2020 GHB... 

[EnixLHQ]

Updated:

• Relics Primed for Corruption artefact section updated with the new GHB2020 selection (and some passive-aggressive salt).

Coming soon:

• Updated sample lists with new points (once the NH PDF supplement drops with WD+)
• A new "all-comers" list designed to be as solid and versatile as possible against all opponents.

 

I would really appreciate if you guys could comb through and find any other bits I need to update now with the new changes.

[Aphotic]

On 7/8/2020 at 5:30 PM, Tropical Ghost General said:

No points in the GHB20. Currently anything published prior to GHB that doesn't get points values in no longer matched play legal, it's what made the mortality glass guardian of souls redundant. 

It's been announced that anything published from Cities of Sigmar, or later, will get an FAQ update. And while CoS was released in early October, and the WD with the NH battalions was published in December, many have stated that this means that they'll be included in the FAQ. The issue with this is that Fyreslayers had the first WD battalions with matched play points, and that was published in June WD, so 3-4 months prior to the CoS book release. Yet Fyreslayers points in GHB20 don't have any of the WD battalions mentioned with points values, so therefore they aren't matched play legal. 

It's probably been done due to 2 reasons. The first being limited access, not everyone can access the information (at least not officially) so it creates an unfair advantage for those who have been able to access it (similar reasons to why the mortality glass wasn't given points and removed from matched play last year). The second being that certain WD faction stuff has been stupid *cough, cough, Slannesh, cough, cough*, so it's a good chance to remove a stupid content of this nature. 

And the mortality glass being given points in the compendium is a low blow. Compendium can't be included in the army even as allies, only if you take Grand Alliance rather than NH. It may be that some TOs allow it, but it's going to be solely down to the discretion of the TO and event organisers.

The other slight concern is the lack of legion of grief in the list of Death armies. Each GBH has a list of all the factions in a grand alliance, which has an updated list of the allies for each faction. They've listed all of the separate legions for legions of Nagash, of which grief is a weird step-child version of one of them, yet it's not been included. Again this might not be an issue but not being mentioned is not a good sign. 

Anyway, this is just my own musings and I am hoping that I get proved wrong. 

Yeah I am still going to play EH/DG etc. I don't see why they'd be illegal, I understand the reasoning, just see it as an oversight. Then again, Ironsunz battalions are -still- not in warscroll builder or azyr...

[Yeled]

On 7/11/2020 at 10:30 AM, Qrow said:

Can anyone with a physical copy of the 2020 GHB confirm the point costs of Reikenor and Kurdoss for me, because my digital copy has different values to some of the leaks

I have a physical copy but was listening to The Honest Wargammer podcast review of the GHB 2020 and what they kept reporting off the digital copy was different than the physical copy I was looking at. It took me a while to figure out what was going on and realize they weren't just skipping things. Like they reported the Black Coach was unchanged pointswise, but my physical copy reports a 40 pt reduction.

Is this issue known? Are people figuring this out? What gives?

[EnixLHQ]

19 minutes ago, Yeled said:

I have a physical copy but was listening to The Honest Wargammer podcast review of the GHB 2020 and what they kept reporting off the digital copy was different than the physical copy I was looking at. It took me a while to figure out what was going on and realize they weren't just skipping things. Like they reported the Black Coach was unchanged pointswise, but my physical copy reports a 40 pt reduction.

Is this issue known? Are people figuring this out? What gives?

See for yourself. First image is from the GHB2020 digital version in Azyr. The second is the hardcopy in my own grubby little hands. They are identical.

They are probably reading from a leak. And if this latest round of leaks is any indication they aren't real, or finalized, or otherwise not worth investing in until the real thing comes out.

A lot of people are very eager to jump on any bit of info out there. But, unless you get it from an official channel don't trust it.

[Tamachan]

On 7/14/2020 at 7:47 AM, EnixLHQ said:

Updated:

• Relics Primed for Corruption artefact section updated with the new GHB2020 selection (and some passive-aggressive salt).

Coming soon:

• Updated sample lists with new points (once the NH PDF supplement drops with WD+)
• A new "all-comers" list designed to be as solid and versatile as possible against all opponents.

 

I would really appreciate if you guys could comb through and find any other bits I need to update now with the new changes.

Maybe it would make sense to take the WD battalions (The Dolorous Guard etc.) because it seems they are not allowed in matched play anymore.

[Astara]

Warscroll builder has been updated and the WD batallions are still there! 

[dmorley21]

7 hours ago, Yeled said:

I have a physical copy but was listening to The Honest Wargammer podcast review of the GHB 2020 and what they kept reporting off the digital copy was different than the physical copy I was looking at. It took me a while to figure out what was going on and realize they weren't just skipping things. Like they reported the Black Coach was unchanged pointswise, but my physical copy reports a 40 pt reduction.

Is this issue known? Are people figuring this out? What gives?

The Black Coach is unchanged from the digital winter points update, but changed since the last GHB.

So it's the same points as what people have been playing lately, but it has an asterisk because this is the first time a hard copy has those points next to it. 

So maybe that was the confusion?

[EnixLHQ]

Everyone, please remember that anything that came out after November last year isn't in the GHB2020, but will be in the digital supplement that'll be released soon. They specifically said that.

The sky is not falling.

Our WD battalions are not gone.

[Greasygeek]

1 hour ago, EnixLHQ said:

...

Thoughts regarding your very fine piece of strategic aid.
Keep in mind I have yet to find the time to really dig into the guide without having my kids jumping on my head while Im trying to read and comprehend. So my suggestions are based on the fact that I might have missed quite a lot indeed🙂

- For people that have English as a second language (like myself) it would be awesome if the guide somewhere down the line could have pictures with examples of the specific tactics example. I had a bit of a hard time visualizing how the Envelope is supposed to work.  Im not talking great pieces of art, just simple paintbrush made boxes and arrows representing setups and situations.

- Its a really nice Document you are making there. Turning it i to a final goodlooking PDF would be very nice. Will probably doit myself if its not in your plans. Just to have it close by when needed. And needed it is.

- would it make sense to make a section about dealing with specific enemyfactions? Like the do’s and don’ts when fighting ...

Again sorry mate if some of my suggestions indicate I havn’t yet read the guid thouroghly. Either way great work. Stuff like this make it funnier to keep fighting those uphill battles.

[Tropical Ghost General]

1 hour ago, EnixLHQ said:

out after November last year isn't in the GHB2020,

Fyreslayers WD stuff isn't in the GHB20 and that was June. Cos book was October iirc. So 🤷🏾‍♂️