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AoS 2 - Maggotkin of Nurgle Discussion


Gaz Taylor

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48 minutes ago, Domowoj said:

Remember when Games Workshop decided to make Warhammer Fantasy a simple game?

Are we talking about the launch of AoS where they didn't have point values and they split up skaven into 6 factions? ?

 

Though on the talk about those Everchosen battalions, Death players have been using Nighthaunt Battalions in Legions of Nagash due to the new 2.0 battalions completely lacking FACTION keywords. If that continues, maybe Everchosen down the line will get fixed or updated whenever Darkoath updates.

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I have a tournament coming up and I am having trouble choosing between a few lists. I have decided to write them out here because many heads are better than one. Oh, and this is going to be a long post. You have been warned.

I usually play a very strong magic-oriented game so I wanted to try something different: Heavy, fast, front+back crushing melee attack. So to this end, I decided to run Gutrot with 10  blightkings ambushing, and also a drone bomb hitting in the front, and all supported by the Cogs. So what this looked like in my theory-brain was a tree going down in the center of the board, a GUO with a bell and blade casting Cogs 1st turn with his gutknife and dialing it in for the +2 to charge, also casting Foul Regen and manipulating for Unnatural Vitality and also using his Command Ability on the drones. I would also attempt to cast Blades of Putrefaction on the drones with some wizard for Esses and Gees. Then, if all went well, Gutty and the Boys would ambush and roll a hard 6 on the charge, and six plague drones would move 13" and run d6+2" (and probably reverse-conga-lining one of the drones backward to stay within 7" of a tree)...and assuming a 3 on the run roll would out me 6" away from the front of enemy deployment zone. If anyone is close to the front of the deployment zone, then I would only need to roll a hard 4 to get into combat turn 1 with the drones. I understand none of this takes into account the rest of the list, 1st battleround turn order, etc.

Then I started to doubt the idea of hitting hard and fast from the front and back in the same turn. If both the drones and the Gutty Boys get into combat right away, then I would have to choose who activates first, and then my opponent would get to swing hard at the other unit. I would maybe need to pick a soft target for one of the charges. So I started toying with the notion of hitting hard with the Gutty Boys 1st. Gutrot and the boys will make a 6" charge (Chronomantic Cogs + musician) in the 1st battleround or they will fail and still be a big problem for my opponent. To quote some pure wisdom:

On 6/28/2018 at 8:25 PM, sal4m4nd3r said:

Or you opponent doesn’t have units near the edge or you fail the charge. On heir turn, Your opponent then either ignores them (never happens and they would be foolish to) or diverts a chunk of their force to deal with them. Good luck with that! And now you have added a wrinkle to any plans they had. 

Then, the rest of my army could crash into the front on the 2nd battleround once the enemy has either turned backward, or divided in half. Since I no longer needed the speed of the drones, maybe it was more important to have a battalion to reduce the amount of deployment drops (so I could maybe have some say on who goes first) and also get another artifact and an extra command point. So I settled on this:
 

Blight Cyst

Harbinger of Decay (general, witherstave)

Lord of Blights

Gutrot Spume

The Glottkin

10x Putrid Blightkings

5x Putrid Blightkings

5x Putrid Blightkings

40x Marauders of Nurgle

Chronomantic Cogs

1980/2000

I am not sure if this is better than the drone bomb, but it gives my Blightkings rend, a plethora of great CAs to choose from (and depending on the opposing army, I could potentially save my 1st turn CP, giving me three going into turn 2). 1st turn Glott would cast Foul Regen and Chrono Cogs, and 2nd turn would cast Fleshy Abundance and Blades of Putrefaction on the Marauders. Marauders are great buffed by any and all of those CAs and would be a force to reckon with. The rend on the blightkings could be a game-changing factor.

I was settled on this list. But the tournament is going to really be exploring the ins and outs of the new Realms (we have 7 boards, each representing a different realm) and so I kinda want more than just one wizard. So my next list is less focused, but brings a lot of toys.

 

The Glottkin

Festus the Leechlord

Sorcerer

Gutrot Spume

10x Putrid Blightkings

30x Plaguebearers

40x Marauders of Nurgle

40x Plague Monks

Balewind Vortex

Chronomantic Cogs

The idea here is basically the same with Gutrot. Several large blobs of infantry makes for good objective play, and Glott's CA really shines here, as well as options for Fleshy Abundance and Blades. Sorc would sit in a back corner on a Vortex with Plague Squall. Festus would hunch down behind Glott and keep him alive hopefully a little longer with healing. Pretty basic, just a lot of infantry and more wizards so I can explore the spells of the realms. Having all these named characters isn't so great for artifacts, but whatever.

 

And here is maybe what a hybrid list would look like ;)

Great Unclean One (Bell+Blade, Endless Gift, Grandfather's Blessing) running with 6x Plague Drones = 740 points

Gutrot Spume running with 10x Putrid Blightkings = 460 points

The Glottkin running with 40x Marauders = 620 points

Leaves me room for 10x Plaguebearers and Chronomantic Cogs

I find that a GUO running behind the drones is enough to activate their Locus ability (at least in my local meta, a GUO with Endless Gift typically gets ignored)

Glottkin won't have much protection, but hopefully being surrounded by 40 marauders and with a drone bomb and Gut's Guys to contend with, people will have  a hard time finding the resources to put Glottkin down. Glottkin would still use fleshy abundance on marauders and try to get Blades off on either the Drones or the Marauders. Both big monster wizards' command abilities are great. This list would give me several strong attack formations, and two big wizards.

I am done rambling on for now but still no closer to making a decision...

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

Are we talking about the launch of AoS where they didn't have point values and they split up skaven into 6 factions? ?

 

Though on the talk about those Everchosen battalions, Death players have been using Nighthaunt Battalions in Legions of Nagash due to the new 2.0 battalions completely lacking FACTION keywords. If that continues, maybe Everchosen down the line will get fixed or updated whenever Darkoath updates.

Would love it if they fix it so that Nurgle can be plaguetouched again. I’m not certain that is likely, however, as the warscroll battalions in the nighthaunt book can be presumed to be Nighthaunt battalions.

Don’t really see much of a disconnect there. You just can’t have allegiance legions of nagash

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So I am going to NOVA Open again this year. Last year I was 8th overall and Runner Up best painted army! Hoping to have similar success this year. They are sold out and wait listing with about 160 players I believe. Last year was 67 lol

This list I have been playing with lately. Not feeling to confident with it at the moment. But I like it..haha. I converted my own chaos lord on demonic mount so I REALLY want to bring him to nova. Sort of a beast to rot fly metamorphosis gone wrong (right?) with a Cell (Dragonball Z) style life/body draining appendage! 

nWbdK9H.jpg?1DvjNf9f.jpg?1 

I also am just so immensly proud of my work on the glotkin I cant bring myself to remove him... 

This is the list..please be brutally honest. 

Allegiance: Nurgle 
Mortal Realm: Ghyran 


The Glottkin (420) 
- Lore of Malignance: Blades of Putrefaction 

Gutrot Spume (140) 

Festus The Leechlord (140) 
- Lore of Foulness: Plague Squall 

Chaos Lord On Daemonic Mount (140) 
- General 
- Trait: Hideous Visage 
- Artefact: The Carrion Dirge 
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle 


40 x Chaos Marauders (200) 
- Axes & Shields 
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle 

Units 
10 x Putrid Blightkings (320) 
5 x Putrid Blightkings (160) 
5 x Putrid Blightkings (160) 

10 x Chaos Knights (320) 
- Chaos Glaives 
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle 

Total: 2000 / 2000 
Wounds: 188 

Strategy: 
-Gutrot takes ten kings with him. Ambushes an objective, backfield unit, sows chaos, spilts enemy forces. A solid fighting group. 

-Chaos Lord on Demonic Mount (CLoDM) and the knights roll together. At -5 bravery combined, they can do some serious damage on the charge and in battleshock. CLoDM command ability is superb and makes them a great target for blades (+1 and rr charges). Another solid independent fighting group. My thoughts were to have them charge in, retreat, have one of the 5 man units step up and plug the holes, hold then enemy in place while the knights prepare for another charge. 

-Glotkin and the marauders run together. He can double their attacks, wounds, cast blades on them...really whatever I need. They can be a tarpit or a mortal wound bomb. The second unit of blightkings runs behind them as backup. 

Please let know your thoughts. Dont hold back on criticism. Maybe I should ditch the bravery bomb and select different artifact and command trait?? Something I get for 200 points thats better than 40 marauders? Take out Glotty??? 

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9 hours ago, Luke1705 said:

Would love it if they fix it so that Nurgle can be plaguetouched again. I’m not certain that is likely, however, as the warscroll battalions in the nighthaunt book can be presumed to be Nighthaunt battalions.

Don’t really see much of a disconnect there. You just can’t have allegiance legions of nagash

Well heres one of the quotes from their discussions. Keep in mind though the Battalions they're using in LON are the ones that the Night Haunt models have been put into LoN through the FAQ, so they're not using allied Nighthaunt units like the new Black Coach.

 

Quote

The battalions in the Nighthaunt battletome do not list an allegiance, and nothing in the 2e rules refers to a battalion's allegiance.  The 2e rules do not, for instance, say that units within one of your faction's battalions don't count as allied units.  That seems to be an faq answer written for 1e that does not match the 2e rules at all.

 

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I watched a Youtube video mathing out the Plague Cyst vs. Blight Cyst, and it was showing that the Plague Cyst maths out to being better, at the cost of the fact your Lord of Plagues needs to be alive and near the Blightkinsg to benefit, while the Blight Cyst is across the board regardless.  Has anyone given PLague Cyst a shot?  I'm thinking of what to finish building out to really get my Maggotkin started.  I currently have:

10 Blightkings
Lord of Plagues (technically two of them)
Lord of Blights
30 Plaguebearers
Poxbringer
Spoilpox Scrivener
Horticulos Slimux
Morbidex Twiceborn
1 Feculent Gnarlmaw
6 Nurglings
3 Plague Drones

I'm thinking of running something like:

Allegiance: Nurgle
Horticulous Slimux (220)
Great Unclean One (340)
Lord of Plagues (140)
30 x Plaguebearers (320)
10 x Putrid Blightkings (320)
5 x Putrid Blightkings (160)
5 x Putrid Blightkings (160)
Plague Cyst (200)

Total: 1860 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 141

This leaves me 140 points.  Thinking a Lord of Blights so I have the option to put Plague Flies on the Plaguebearers when they reach combat; a -2 to hit in combat seems like it would make them an amazing tarpit.

Any suggestions?  Also about how many Gnarlmaws should I have?  3?

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2 hours ago, wayniac said:

I watched a Youtube video mathing out the Plague Cyst vs. Blight Cyst, and it was showing that the Plague Cyst maths out to being better, at the cost of the fact your Lord of Plagues needs to be alive and near the Blightkinsg to benefit, while the Blight Cyst is across the board regardless.  Has anyone given PLague Cyst a shot?  I'm thinking of what to finish building out to really get my Maggotkin started.  I currently have:

10 Blightkings
Lord of Plagues (technically two of them)
Lord of Blights
30 Plaguebearers
Poxbringer
Spoilpox Scrivener
Horticulos Slimux
Morbidex Twiceborn
1 Feculent Gnarlmaw
6 Nurglings
3 Plague Drones

I'm thinking of running something like:

Allegiance: Nurgle
Horticulous Slimux (220)
Great Unclean One (340)
Lord of Plagues (140)
30 x Plaguebearers (320)
10 x Putrid Blightkings (320)
5 x Putrid Blightkings (160)
5 x Putrid Blightkings (160)
Plague Cyst (200)

Total: 1860 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 141

This leaves me 140 points.  Thinking a Lord of Blights so I have the option to put Plague Flies on the Plaguebearers when they reach combat; a -2 to hit in combat seems like it would make them an amazing tarpit.

Any suggestions?  Also about how many Gnarlmaws should I have?  3?

I tried plague cyst and was underwhelmed. I think 10 chaos knights would be a better investment then 30 plaguebearers. They are super fast in a Nurgle army and hit like a truck on the charge. Chaos lord on demonic mount has an amazing command ability as well. 

Link to video..?

Edited by sal4m4nd3r
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Here is the video:  

 

 

His points seem valid enough.  That said though I'd really like to have the Harbinger of Decay (I love that model) but can't find the points for him; dropping the Lord of Blights puts me 20 points over, and I think Horticulous is too good to get rid of.

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@wayniac I will listen to video and maybe give plague cyst some more testing. Thanks for the link. Agreed on horticulous. He just does everything well except move fast. But he is a snail so.. lol

Do they talk about blessed sons at all? It’s a big battalion cost but for 100 points it’s good. Mystic shield on all units, artifact and cp for 100...

Also while the harbinger is nice, the blightkings got so much tougher with the extra wounds. 25% -30% tougher actually. Which is the similar to a 5+ fnp. So for a 160 points for him to twiddle thumbs, soak command points and not add a whole lot in combat...meh. I think an extra unit of blightkings would be a better use of 160 points. They are just so good. 

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3 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

@wayniac I will listen to video and maybe give plague cyst some more testing. Thanks for the link. Agreed on horticulous. He just does everything well except move fast. But he is a snail so.. lol

Do they talk about blessed sons at all? It’s a big battalion cost but for 100 points it’s good. Mystic shield on all units, artifact and cp for 100...

No, the entire video is basically math between PLague Cyst vs. Blight Cyst.

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The video is interesting and worth watching, however we should look at it for what it is: a small amount of math in a vacuum and then some opinion. The result of the "math" is that Plague Cyst and Blight Cyst both buff Blight Kings to a comparable level of damage output.  They are similar but different. He doesn't talk about the Lord of Blights majorly defensive command ability, and he fails to mention one major perk of the Blight Cyst battalion. That perk being the ability to buff Gutrot Spume's deep strikers. It seems like the author of this video has his mind made up, but there are a lot of big IFs in army composition. I feel like we Nurgle players are truly blessed by Papa N. that we have so many tough decisions to make between all these good army components.

Anyway, at the end of the day, Plague Cyst is maybe better if you don't need the rend or have things like Rustfang/Festus in your army. Blight Cyst is maybe better if you are Gutbombing the backfield, or if you need LoB's CA to get your Plague Monks up the field with minimal losses. But the bottom line seems to be that we have so many good models and units and battalions. Therefore, the Rule of Cool dictates that we can take any Nurgle army and stand a fair chance at having a good time.

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10 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

Well heres one of the quotes from their discussions. Keep in mind though the Battalions they're using in LON are the ones that the Night Haunt models have been put into LoN through the FAQ, so they're not using allied Nighthaunt units like the new Black Coach.

 

 

Page 64 of the nighthaunt battletome. They are playing it incorrectly if the are using legion of nagash as an allegiance and a nighthaunt warscroll battalion, which is the allegiance for all of the warscroll battalions in the nighthaunt battletome (shockingly).

 

Might GW FAQ it differently? Sure. Maybe they’ll FAQ it so that I can use the plaguetouched warband again as Nurgle. Sure hope they do! But for right now, that’s not how this works.

1C7770CE-D915-4E83-893A-20C6232D9E06.png

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15 hours ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

So I am going to NOVA Open again this year. Last year I was 8th overall and Runner Up best painted army! Hoping to have similar success this year. They are sold out and wait listing with about 160 players I believe. Last year was 67 lol

This list I have been playing with lately. Not feeling to confident with it at the moment. But I like it..haha. I converted my own chaos lord on demonic mount so I REALLY want to bring him to nova. Sort of a beast to rot fly metamorphosis gone wrong (right?) with a Cell (Dragonball Z) style life/body draining appendage! 

nWbdK9H.jpg?1DvjNf9f.jpg?1 

I also am just so immensly proud of my work on the glotkin I cant bring myself to remove him... 

This is the list..please be brutally honest. 

Allegiance: Nurgle 
Mortal Realm: Ghyran 


The Glottkin (420) 
- Lore of Malignance: Blades of Putrefaction 

Gutrot Spume (140) 

Festus The Leechlord (140) 
- Lore of Foulness: Plague Squall 

Chaos Lord On Daemonic Mount (140) 
- General 
- Trait: Hideous Visage 
- Artefact: The Carrion Dirge 
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle 


40 x Chaos Marauders (200) 
- Axes & Shields 
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle 

Units 
10 x Putrid Blightkings (320) 
5 x Putrid Blightkings (160) 
5 x Putrid Blightkings (160) 

10 x Chaos Knights (320) 
- Chaos Glaives 
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle 

Total: 2000 / 2000 
Wounds: 188 

Strategy: 
-Gutrot takes ten kings with him. Ambushes an objective, backfield unit, sows chaos, spilts enemy forces. A solid fighting group. 

-Chaos Lord on Demonic Mount (CLoDM) and the knights roll together. At -5 bravery combined, they can do some serious damage on the charge and in battleshock. CLoDM command ability is superb and makes them a great target for blades (+1 and rr charges). Another solid independent fighting group. My thoughts were to have them charge in, retreat, have one of the 5 man units step up and plug the holes, hold then enemy in place while the knights prepare for another charge. 

-Glotkin and the marauders run together. He can double their attacks, wounds, cast blades on them...really whatever I need. They can be a tarpit or a mortal wound bomb. The second unit of blightkings runs behind them as backup. 

Please let know your thoughts. Dont hold back on criticism. Maybe I should ditch the bravery bomb and select different artifact and command trait?? Something I get for 200 points thats better than 40 marauders? Take out Glotty??? 

I'm running a similar list tomorrow night for NOVA practice.  I like the list you have, but would consider moving the Chaos Knights to 1 or 2 units of 5.  CLoDM also works with a Drone bomb, coupling that with your bravery bomb might yield decent results.  As for Glottkin I'm not really sold on him.  Hes amazing, but very squishy and takes 1/4 of your army (1/3 if you include the 40 marauders he needs).  For 20(?) points more you can get 30 Plaguebearers and a GUO, who have more staying power.

 

Leaders

Lord of Chaos on Demonic Mount (140)

-General

-Hideous Visage

-Carrion Dirge

-Mark of Nurgle

 

Harbringer of Decay (160)

-Witherstave

 

Lord of Plagues (140)

-Rustfang

 

Sorcerer (120)

-Blades of Purtrification

 

Festus the Leechlord (140)

-Magnificent Buboes

 

Gutrot Spume(140)

 

Units

x5 Putrid Blightkings (160)

x5 Putrid Blightkings (160)

x5 Putrid Blightkings (160)

x5 Putrid Blightkings (160)

 

Other

x5 Chaos Knights (160)

-Chaos Glaives

-Mark of Nurgle

Battalions

Plague Cyst(200)

The Blessed Sons(100)

 

Endless

Balewind Vortex

 

Plan is to run CLoDM with the knights (BoP and 2 CLoDM abilities if it goes off) for quick strikes to soften units and disrupt the opponents plan.  I found running 10 they are too bulky and get tied down easily.

 

Gutrot and a unit of x5 kings to do much the same as above, deploy deep to cause chaos or early objective challenge.

 

The rest of my army has multiple ways to react depending upon opponent and battle plan.  A large turtle of every thing else.  2 units of kings with LoP and Sorcerer (BoP and reroll all missed hits).  2 units of kings with harbringer for survivability.

 

 The biggest weakness I see is lack of bodies for objectives.  Thinking about removing Blessed Sons, Harbringer and Gutrot to add in 2 units of 15 Chaos Warriors or 3 units of 10 Chaos Warriors.

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I'd almost rather drop festus from that list to either bump a PBK unit up to 10, add another PBK unit, or bring the knights to 10. 10 knights can really break a tough unit's back, I have found 5 to be decent. Yes, they are a little easier to manoeuvre as 5, but I haven't had issues getting 8-9 knights in combat on the charge so far. 

 

The list I'm thinking about putting together is a bit different, and any feedback would also be appreciated. 

Mortal Realm: Hysh
Great Unclean One (340)
- General
- Trait: Pestilent Breath 
- Artefact: The Endless Gift 
- Lore of Virulence: Glorious Afflictions
Horticulous Slimux 
Gutrot Spume 
Lord of Blights 
- Artefact: Lens of Refraction 
Festus The Leechlord 
10 x Putrid Blightkings
5 x Putrid Blightkings
5 x Putrid Blightkings
5 x Putrid Blightkings 
Blight Cyst 

2k on the nose. The basic idea is to use the great unclean one to hold the middle and give all my units a first and second turn speed boost to get to the objectives early and hold out on them for as long as possible. Gutrot will take 5 or 10 PBKs depending on if I need a big unit in my deployment zone or if they can go disrupt things. Festus tries to keep the GUO alive and Slimux helps get the summoning jump-started a turn earlier.  I'm really torn between festus and a Lord of Plagues, not sure which will actually work better in this list. 

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6 hours ago, Luke1705 said:

Might GW FAQ it differently? Sure. Maybe they’ll FAQ it so that I can use the plaguetouched warband again as Nurgle. Sure hope they do! But for right now, that’s not how this works

It would be kinda hilarious if they paddle back on that one. As the only intention of the ruling seemingly was to make sure that battalions stay within their faction in matched play. Although I'd like to use Bloodmarked in Khorne or Plaguetouched, it was a good and reasonable change. (faction identity, balancing reasons...)

I'd rather have an updated version of Everchosen or Chaos Undivided, instead of reverting stuff.

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16 minutes ago, LordRogalDorn said:

I'd almost rather drop festus from that list to either bump a PBK unit up to 10, add another PBK unit, or bring the knights to 10. 10 knights can really break a tough unit's back, I have found 5 to be decent. Yes, they are a little easier to manoeuvre as 5, but I haven't had issues getting 8-9 knights in combat on the charge so far. 

 

The list I'm thinking about putting together is a bit different, and any feedback would also be appreciated. 

Mortal Realm: Hysh
Great Unclean One (340)
- General
- Trait: Pestilent Breath 
- Artefact: The Endless Gift 
- Lore of Virulence: Glorious Afflictions
Horticulous Slimux 
Gutrot Spume 
Lord of Blights 
- Artefact: Lens of Refraction 
Festus The Leechlord 
10 x Putrid Blightkings
5 x Putrid Blightkings
5 x Putrid Blightkings
5 x Putrid Blightkings 
Blight Cyst 

2k on the nose. The basic idea is to use the great unclean one to hold the middle and give all my units a first and second turn speed boost to get to the objectives early and hold out on them for as long as possible. Gutrot will take 5 or 10 PBKs depending on if I need a big unit in my deployment zone or if they can go disrupt things. Festus tries to keep the GUO alive and Slimux helps get the summoning jump-started a turn earlier.  I'm really torn between festus and a Lord of Plagues, not sure which will actually work better in this list. 

I thought the same, but honestly running 1 caster worries me a bit.  Maybe replace festus with a sorcerer or poxbringer, drop blessed sons and harbringer, move 1 unit of BK into another to make 10 and upping the knights to 10.   Leaves me with 140 extra points I'm not sure what to do with.

 

 

I like your list, but Endless Gift on GUO and festus seems like overkill.  Maybe replace it with witherstave or tome of a thousand poxes?

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53 minutes ago, peasant said:

Guys! Today I Used 30 plague bearers and used LoBlights to Get -4/-2 hittings and My opponent Get a Little mad with That do you think is unFair?  The Both Buffs Stack dont They?

6's automatically hit, right?  

 

BTW, your opponent needed to kill LoBlights.

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1 hour ago, grungolah said:

6's automatically hit, right?  

 

BTW, your opponent needed to kill LoBlights.

Yes, but his Iron Jaws hitting on 6s was not Fun for Him. Ive not seen This Trick normally so I wanted to try It. 

Rotigus, underperformed so Im Thinking on Giving up on GUOs of any Flavour. The PlagueClaw did a Very good Job. 

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