AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

[Sinfullyvannila]

Yeah the worst case is a "free" arcane suggestion and getting concerted into a chaos spawn and while that's still unfavorable its not too terrible a loss.

[Halkbat]

One neat thing I noticed about the curseling is when they unbind an enemy spell they can glean magic any enemy wizard in range not just the one they unbound.  

I don't know if anyone else assumed it was limited to the casting wizard like I did.

[Jabbuk]

Sounds fun! I agree about the shutting down. I mean magic is our only thing. That being said, I play Kairos and recently I've played Seraphon twice (Kroak and Slaan) and Nagash last night, and it fueled my engine even more. Kroak gets a lower buff if you start the turn, so your T1 phase is almost guaranteed. I just rolled super hot against Nagash, with always a 5 or 6 on my dice and it was super cool to still get my spells through. I think a LoC is necessary for that though. Anything else will get shut down.

The only army that made me want to stop playing, literally, was NH with banshees. These girls only need to beat the casting value and they get to unbind unlimited spells. It felt so crippling against Tzeentch. I couldn't get any spell off. I mean I could've cast only buffs or spells that don't target anything but then I do 0 damage, as our damage comes from spells. I disliked my experience against those.

[Halkbat]

Yea banshee unbinding an unlimited number of spells that easily is rediculous and sucks that it also denies fate points unlike other spell ignores.

They do seem pretty vulnerable to shooting with only 1 wound each and we have a few ways to protect spells from being unbound.

[MitGas]

23 hours ago, Landohammer said:

The version I was reading in the app is updated, so yea I think I am reading it right. Admittedly its nothing crazy, but in my practice games it seemed like a good way to use up the 2's or 3's in your destiny dice pool (assuming you have two of either). Because if you use two 2's it still goes off, generates 2 fate points, and cant be unbound. I found its a great way to force Arcane Suggestion through. Its also the only option available to arcanites for additional fate point production.  

I think the enlightened on disc warscroll is a solid value. So even though the "all flying chicken" list is a bit of a joke and far from optimized, I think it may surprise some folks. The tourney is on sunday and I have one practice game between now and then. I will let yall know how it goes. 

Side rant: One thing I find "un-fun" about tzeentch is dumping a lot of points into magic just to get paired vs a faction who can absolutely shut it down or shrug it off. (slaans, kroak, teclis, nagash, dragons, certain SBG builds, etc). So I always avoid going to heavy into heroes. Though admittedly only taking 1 is asking for trouble 🤣

 

As a big fan of enlightened, I‘d really like to know how yours fared. They have never disappointed me so far and I‘ve  use at least one unit every game. I‘m not playing against very seasoned tournament pros though 😅

[Landohammer]

6 minutes ago, MitGas said:

As a big fan of enlightened, I‘d really like to know how yours fared. They have never disappointed me so far and I‘ve  use at least one unit every game. I‘m not playing against very seasoned tournament pros though 😅

Will do! I have 4 games on the calendar between now and sunday. I am hoping for a 2-2 record and to have fun. Will keep yall posted. My list is called "Arise Chicken" 🐔

Quick question for the general population. How are you guys completing the "complete a charge with a mortal that is more than 18 inches away" battle tactic? Because you can't declare a charge that is over 12" and our foot heroes are movement 5-6, it looks like its only possible with a Magister on Disk or Fatemaster.

I was leaning toward taking Curseling, tzaangor shaman or Ogroid as my lone hero, but having access to another relatively easy battle tactic seems like a pretty big perk for the Magister. 

 

 

[Ganigumo]

37 minutes ago, Landohammer said:

Will do! I have 4 games on the calendar between now and sunday. I am hoping for a 2-2 record and to have fun. Will keep yall posted. My list is called "Arise Chicken" 🐔

Quick question for the general population. How are you guys completing the "complete a charge with a mortal that is more than 18 inches away" battle tactic? Because you can't declare a charge that is over 12" and our foot heroes are movement 5-6, it looks like its only possible with a Magister on Disk or Fatemaster.

I was leaning toward taking Curseling, tzaangor shaman or Ogroid as my lone hero, but having access to another relatively easy battle tactic seems like a pretty big perk for the Magister. 

 

 

You can do it with a unit that has 6" move, but just barely and the distance has to be exactly 18.01-18.25, but fatemaster and magister on disk are your best bets.

Another way to do it would be to bring Lauchon the Soulseeker, since he can move a wizard up to 18" and then it can still move in the movement phase. you can actually move kairics with it if the whole unit is within 3", and moving around expert conqueror kairics is a neat trick.

[Landohammer]

1 hour ago, Ganigumo said:

You can do it with a unit that has 6" move, but just barely and the distance has to be exactly 18.01-18.25, but fatemaster and magister on disk are your best bets.

Another way to do it would be to bring Lauchon the Soulseeker, since he can move a wizard up to 18" and then it can still move in the movement phase. you can actually move kairics with it if the whole unit is within 3", and moving around expert conqueror kairics is a neat trick.

How often are you going to be exactly 18.25" away from the closest unit AND have double 6s in your dice pool? I don't see any practical value to that unless you set it up precisely and get the double turn. 

The Lauchon idea is neat but not sure it serves any purpose to our army outside of that one scenario. Our wizards rarely want to get closer and kairics would need a wizard to cast it for them since they can't cast it themselves. 

[Ganigumo]

14 hours ago, Landohammer said:

How often are you going to be exactly 18.25" away from the closest unit AND have double 6s in your dice pool? I don't see any practical value to that unless you set it up precisely and get the double turn. 

The Lauchon idea is neat but not sure it serves any purpose to our army outside of that one scenario. Our wizards rarely want to get closer and kairics would need a wizard to cast it for them since they can't cast it themselves. 

I just said you could do it, not that it was easy or good.

I think Lauchon might have some play though. Its just a useful movement piece. Our foot heroes probably appreciate it, and some of them are pretty good. Plus I think there is some play in moving kairics around with it. IIRC a list did well recently with a block of 30 kairics, where they stacked the extra rend on the 30 unit, and I think you can fit 30 around lauchon within 3", so you increase the threat range by a ton. Plus throwing small expendable units forwards onto objectives and stuff might score you some points, especially since they fit into expert conquerors (but screamers kind of do that already).
The biggest problem with it is how contested our endless spells are I think. Sigil and Spellportal are basically auto include, and that only leaves space for 1, which is hotly contested between cogs and purple sun.

 

If the new season is indeed small hero focused maybe it might become more interesting depending on how the battle tactics shape up.

[angrycontra]

Jade obelisk warband is in the app. They are battleline for DoT which is nice. 4+ ethereal saves but on down side they do seem to be a bit too expensive for what they bring. Their damage is underwhelming and survivability wise a bit too costly. Still interesting screening option nevertheless.

[Jabbuk]

9 hours ago, angrycontra said:

Jade obelisk warband is in the app. They are battleline for DoT which is nice. 4+ ethereal saves but on down side they do seem to be a bit too expensive for what they bring. Their damage is underwhelming and survivability wise a bit too costly. Still interesting screening option nevertheless.

I don't see it in my app. Have any screenshot?

[Bayul]

1 hour ago, Jabbuk said:

I don't see it in my app. Have any screenshot?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/2HxQxI8INdwIxmYj.pdf

[Landohammer]

12 hours ago, Jabbuk said:

I don't see it in my app. Have any screenshot?

You may need to manually update your app from your app store/play store. I had too. 

Looking at the warscroll they are honestly an interesting choice for battleline filler. 4+ ethereal save and they rez 1 model each combat phase. Base attack profile isn't terrible either with 2A 4+/3+/-1/1 damage. They also have some token shooting. 

If you want something stronger than acolytes, I can see people choosing these guys over tzaangors as objective campers. Models are cool too. 

 

[Landohammer]

22 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

I just said you could do it, not that it was easy or good.

I think Lauchon might have some play though. Its just a useful movement piece. Our foot heroes probably appreciate it, and some of them are pretty good. Plus I think there is some play in moving kairics around with it. IIRC a list did well recently with a block of 30 kairics, where they stacked the extra rend on the 30 unit, and I think you can fit 30 around lauchon within 3", so you increase the threat range by a ton. Plus throwing small expendable units forwards onto objectives and stuff might score you some points, especially since they fit into expert conquerors (but screamers kind of do that already).
The biggest problem with it is how contested our endless spells are I think. Sigil and Spellportal are basically auto include, and that only leaves space for 1, which is hotly contested between cogs and purple sun.

 

If the new season is indeed small hero focused maybe it might become more interesting depending on how the battle tactics shape up.

I get what you are saying, but I mean my magister on disc has a better chance of declaring "this one is mine" and wiping a unit of 10 skeletons off the board. Or I could declare barge through enemy lines on turn 1 and roll two 6s on run rolls. 

So to clarify I was looking for real situations where that battle tactic would be a realistic option. And without a magister or fatemaster, its just not

I think Lauchon is a bit of a trap, simply because it has the same issues as the old Soulscream Bridge builds. You need to plan your deployment around it and some armies can easily deny it and waste all that effort. Also 30 acolytes may get some decent damage in, but they are absolutely dead meat next turn lol.  I think maybe an Ogroid thaumaturge tooled up with some CT/artefacts would be a safer (and cheaper!) option to teleport up. 

[Jabbuk]

16 minutes ago, Landohammer said:

You may need to manually update your app from your app store/play store. I had too. 

Looking at the warscroll they are honestly an interesting choice for battleline filler. 4+ ethereal save and they rez 1 model each combat phase. Base attack profile isn't terrible either with 2A 4+/3+/-1/1 damage. They also have some token shooting. 

If you want something stronger than acolytes, I can see people choosing these guys over tzaangors as objective campers. Models are cool too. 

 

Nice, yeah and I think they are 10 models, so not a bad footprint.

[Jabbuk]

Oh.. they are 145. Hard pass.

[Landohammer]

Chicken meme list update 1:

Played vs an extremely scary Kragnos Ogor list in a practice game. The list is built to perform ogor charges with 3d6 dice. Its brutal.

Turn 1. All 30 acolytes dead. 

Turn 2. Lots of casualties on both sides. I hit 9 fate points and summon a Lord of Change. (arise chicken!)

Turn 3: Only Kragnos, 1 ogor and 1 enlightened left, along with my Magister on Disc and his Ogor tyrant. My lord of change burns off his tyrant with mortals and I turn his last ogor into a chaos spawn lol. Kragnos then eats my Lord of Change ::sad chicken noises::

Turn 4-5: Is just my single enlightened, magister, and spawn running around like benny hill while Kragnos chases us. I miss my battle tactic turn 5 but my opponent misses his grand. 

Final score 24-23. Chickens win! 

Tournament on sunday!

[Jabbuk]

What do you guys think of Bel'akor in Tzeentch lists? He seems pretty good to control people and allow us to cast more spells. How do you guys feel?

[Landohammer]

Chicken Meme list update 2 - The Tournament

Game 1 vs LRL win 29-18

Eltharion did a lot of work, but his sentinels and wardens were no match for bounty hunter enlightened on disks. Lord of Change summoned on turn 2 and shut down his critical spells. big win

Game 2 vs Dok (Morathi/Gotrek/15 snakes) 22-28

I knew this list is essentially unbeatable (the player is also a pro level player) and so I just ran away and tried to nab as many points as possible. Soft loss.

Game 3 vs Big Waagh 22-22

This was a super fun game with two wacky lists. I killed all his infantry but his named Mawkrusha ate my entire army. He had a priest do a "stare" attack that did 20 mortals to a unit of enlightened :S. It came out a tie but we gave it to him on battle tactics

Ended up taking 6th (out of 12). Chicken meme list official record is 2-1-1. I will take that!

[Landohammer]

Rules question:

Does the automatic tzeentch endless spell summon provide a fate point? I have been adding one but my opponent said the fate point requires a "casting roll" to trigger. So since the endless spell has no casting roll, it doesn't provide one. 

[Ganigumo]

1 hour ago, Landohammer said:

Rules question:

Does the automatic tzeentch endless spell summon provide a fate point? I have been adding one but my opponent said the fate point requires a "casting roll" to trigger. So since the endless spell has no casting roll, it doesn't provide one. 

yes. This was explicitly called out in the Tzeentch FAQ

[Dreadmund]

Similarly, the blue scribes casting a spell with their 2+ ability also generates a fate point despite not making a casting roll.

[Equinox]

Two quick questions I am hoping to get help on or at least pointed in the right direction:

1. If I take a unit of Chosen from the new StD book, do the Mark of Tzeentch rules from the StD book apply to them in DoT?

2. If I take a unit that has on its warscroll a rule that allows it to roll on the Eye of Chaos table before the game, do I get the roll?

[Jabbuk]

3 hours ago, Equinox said:

Two quick questions I am hoping to get help on or at least pointed in the right direction:

1. If I take a unit of Chosen from the new StD book, do the Mark of Tzeentch rules from the StD book apply to them in DoT?

2. If I take a unit that has on its warscroll a rule that allows it to roll on the Eye of Chaos table before the game, do I get the roll?

I would go ahead and say NO to both questions. My understanding of the rules is that since they are taken as coalition units, they are now in a Disciples of Tzeentch army and not a Slaves to Darkness army, hence, they lose the allegiance abilities/Battle Traits from S2D but gain "synergy" with Tzeentch, thanks to the keywords.

They are still not considered pure DoT units but they float in-between, playing on the keywords lingo.

 

Edited December 12, 2022 by Jabbuk

[MitGas]

That‘s my take on it as well… it‘s as if GW actively wants you to NOT buy S2D kits because they‘ll never perform as well as they should in DoT lists. 😅

I see a couple of useful exceptions but we really need our own mortal elite unit I think. Everything else we got now pretty much. 👍

It is my great joy to face nurgle fly spam (I got a feeling he‘ll use that) in a few days. Just 1000 points (I‘m not a big fan of small games with DoT) but I‘ll try to make my fellow birdbros proud. 😎 Dunno what else I‘ll run but Enlightened are gonna be in there for sure. 😇