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Gaz Taylor

AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

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8 minutes ago, drkrash said:

I kind of assumed they were.  What else would they be? They don't seem to be battalions.

Yea I’m hopeful. Tyrants+5 run and charge Bloodthirsters would be hilarious.

They could be stand alone, Legion of grief sort of style. Or subfactions of the Legion of Chaos Ascendant I guess.

There was 4 battalions in the book, 1 for us presumably but we haven’t seen anything on that yet.

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2 minutes ago, Troll.exe said:

Yea I’m hopeful. Tyrants+5 run and charge Bloodthirsters would be hilarious.

They could be stand alone, Legion of grief sort of style. Or subfactions of the Legion of Chaos Ascendant I guess.

There was 4 battalions in the book, 1 for us presumably but we haven’t seen anything on that yet.

Of course, if they *weren't* slaughterhosts, then I want to try 5 BTs in Bloodlords.  It might work as an Alpha-Strike (that would then kinda fall apart right afterwards).

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c5d3d764.jpg


I am very curious how this faction will turn out. Sure it isn't gonna be swing twice with the last Tyrant nor will it be Start of combat shenanigans, but this pushes Tyrants pretty high without having to invest CP or give up an artifact slot. When the reviews hit on Saturday, we will find out what comes with this.

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Though there are very few 2k builds that can fit 5 BTs and be anything more than a fun ride.

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The Flayed (+1 save for mortals who kill a hero/monster) will be highly situational but might have some other abilities that make it worthwhile. 

As for the Baleful Lords, who owns 5 bloodthirsters, let alone 5 Insensate Rage thirsters as per their recommendation?

For those that do, 5 x Insensate Rage thirsters and Tyrants of Blood Battalion is 1490pts. Add 5 x units of flesh hounds for 1990. About as one dimensional as you can get but might be fun. Obviously there are a few other combos in there (swap out one Insensate Rage for Skarbrand and have 4 x units of flesh hounds).

Did anyone notice the three slaanesh options (Lurid Haze, Faultless Blades & Scarlett Cavalcade) all mention the 3 Slaanesh hosts in their abilities (Invaders, Pretenders and Godseekers)? This would suggest the slaanesh options are tied to a specific host and the abilities are in addition to their host's abilities (because Slaanesh clearly needed a boost... sigh...) however that doesnt appear to be the case with the khorne ones. That either means they are usable with and in addition to any slaughterhost (which is a pretty neat additional buff for no cost) or, sadly the more likely option, they are used instead of a slaughterhost. 

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I think the 5th thirster is actually a bit of a trap. You’ll definitely want Skarbrand in there. Turns a move 8 absolute weapon of a beat stick into something very mobile and terrifying. A WoKB with a Crimson crown to support a couple of BoIR without +1 to hit artefacts maybe. I’m thinking a bloodsecrator and 1 priest for killing frenzy. You could fill out battleline with a couple of units of hounds,  1xreavers and toss a unit of wrathmongers in there for good measure. Then spend all your CPs on run rolls lol.

 

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Oh yeah. 5 thirsters is definitely a trap. A fun trap, but a trap nonetheless. I was more curious the impact that running and charging bloodthirsters was going to pan out. It definitely adds a psychological dynamic to the game of “these 3-4 bloodthirsters are going to be barreling down at ANY point. 

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Played against Orgre Mawtribes last night and Chaos Lord on Karkadrak as a general in Goretide with the Runeblade on his axe is so nasty. He took down a Frostlord on Stonehorn in one combat phase. I definitely think it's a solid model in a Mortal list. Also used a Daemon Prince and while his command ability worked only one time in negating a charge, I think he is still really good, it's just that Mawtribes (Beast Claw specifically) move really fast, so they don't usually need a long bomb charge to start with. Against other armies with average movement speeds I think he will be incredibly powerful.

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Played against Khorne today for the first time in a while and that Wrath Axe is amazing. Opponent camped a slaughter priest next to the Skull Alter for rerolls on the judgements very effectively. 

The D3 + the D6 can be a reliable mortal wound output if you dont roll potato and can keep it on the board. Excellent for 60 points. 

Edited by Saxon

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27 minutes ago, Saxon said:

Played against Khorne today

What army were you playing mate?

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6 minutes ago, Roark said:

What army were you playing mate?

Nighthaunt. Good game but those judgements were so powerful. My opponent rolled well to get them and keep them. 

Managed to kill my Reiknor the Grimhailer in 1 turn!

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1 minute ago, Saxon said:

Nighthaunt. Good game but those judgements were so powerful. My opponent rolled well to get them and keep them. 

Managed to kill my Reiknor the Grimhailer in 1 turn!

Yeah, that's kind of the thing with them: they're a bit "swingy". The Hexgorger Skulls can actually dissipate without having a chance to do anything at all. On the upside (for us) there's nothing the opponent can do to dispel or remove them. I imagine that might be frustrating sometimes...

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8 minutes ago, Roark said:

Yeah, that's kind of the thing with them: they're a bit "swingy". The Hexgorger Skulls can actually dissipate without having a chance to do anything at all. On the upside (for us) there's nothing the opponent can do to dispel or remove them. I imagine that might be frustrating sometimes...

I am yet to see the downside of the swing yet, 2 games, lots of MWs conceded! That skull alter gives the judgements a nice boost in being able to reroll failed 'casts. 

Another great unit is flesh hounds. 3+ to hit on 4 attacks at 100 points is great value. They're like direwolves with an offensive capability. 

I enjoy playing against the variety khorne offers. I'd imagine they'd be frustrating to play with given the reliance on synergy. 

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2 minutes ago, Saxon said:

enjoy playing against the variety khorne offers. I'd imagine they'd be frustrating to play with given the reliance on synergy

Yeah, the two most frustrating things for me in that respect are: very shooty armies who can just knock out support characters one after the other, and a couple of very tight "wholly within" buffing ranges.

For the first, I'm relying more on resilient buffing units (eg: Warshrines and Wrathmongers). For the second, well... Khorne has almost always been an army that requires careful positioning and movement. I guess I'm fairly used to it now. It still feels restrictive though, when sometimes you just want to roar mindlessly into the fray per the lore haha.

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I have a question about Blood Tithe summoning: the book says that the summoned unit needs to be set up within range of a Hero or a Skull Altar. Does that mean I can summon even if I've been tabled, because the Skull Altar isn't going anywhere? Thematically I think it would be a fun parting gift for my opponent, thinking they've wiped me out and then BLOODTHIRSTER!

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44 minutes ago, Zamik said:

I have a question about Blood Tithe summoning: the book says that the summoned unit needs to be set up within range of a Hero or a Skull Altar. Does that mean I can summon even if I've been tabled, because the Skull Altar isn't going anywhere? Thematically I think it would be a fun parting gift for my opponent, thinking they've wiped me out and then BLOODTHIRSTER!

I'm not sure what the official rule is, but I have played it this way.  I was tabled, summoned a unit from the altar, scored some more tithe, was tabled again, summoned another unit, and was finally tabled a third time  Still lost. :)

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You don't autolose if you have no models on the board in AoS. (Unless something changed that I missed)

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1 hour ago, kahadin said:

You don't autolose if you have no models on the board in AoS. (Unless something changed that I missed)

Yeah, I know you can still win on points no matter what, but I just wanted to see if there was anything stopping me from spending my blood tithe points if all my units are wiped off the board. Obviously I would have no Heroes to summon them near, but if all I need is the Altar, I can stay in the fight FROM BEYOND THE GRAVE!

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You can summon from it i the rules, so I can't see how it would be a problem unless there was no legal space to summon.

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So the new hosts are:

Mortal one:

Get +1 save for a mortal unit that kills a hero/monster in melee.

CP ability: unit wholly within 12" of mortal hero that charged gets +1 to hit

Trait: priests reroll 1s on prayers wholly within 8".

Artifact: +2 to charge roll

 

Demon one:

Thirsters can run&charge.

CP ability: thirster ignores the wound degradation for one combat phase.

Trait: thirsters get +1 to charge wholly within some range.

Artifact: +1 to save.

 

Now new battalions usable in Khorne.

The new demon host seems kinda weak, you can only take demons, so no bloodsecrator to buff the letters, but you get to summon a unit of 10 every turn on 3+.

 

Mortal seems like a bit of an upgrade to goretide in terms of usable benefits for mortal units. It kinda implies you want to play crushers because it's easier to pull off charges for cavalry and chaos knights already have a hero that gives them +1 hit for CP. Trait implies priests should be tailing behind the crushers. Coupled with recent point drop GW is pushing hard those crusher kits.

I think 2x9 crushers and a Demon prince to protect them from charges should be a decent start here.

 

Demon one is a sidegrade to reapers. You do less damage, but you're faster and tougher since you can make one thirster 3+ with artefact, one 3+ with bronze flesh (Skarbrand probably) and one with ethereal for 4+ unrendable. Also ignoring degradation is a huge deal for Rage. I dunno if speed+armor is enough to improve thirster matchup against shooting, but at least GW tried.

I think you go tyrants to compensate with chain activations for loss of Reapers ability, you will have higher drop count, but giving you the first turn is dangerous with how fast thirsters are here.

Edited by Smooth criminal
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Anyone thinking of using the Flayed  host? Its a strange one for me. 

The command ability is a guaranteed Killing Frenzy (for mortals) meaning you might not need a priest with that prayer, but then the command trait helps priests to leave the altar and still be somewhat reliable, encouraging you to bring priests. I guess having killing frenzy around for another chance at +1 to hit is nice (and it can go on any daemons you might have brought/summoned).

I suppose the trait could be good with a warshrine that moves forward so that its protection aura effects the front lines. 

Lord on Karkdrak could make lance knights hit on 2+ and reroll charges with 2CP which is pretty nice. The +2" to charge artifact feels like a real wasted artifact slot though. The Karkadrak is a good shout for it given he does mortal wounds on the charge but at the expense of an artifact to make him hit harder/last longer?

Do any of these effects justify the Flayed over Goretide or even Skullfiend tribe? Outside of narrative fluff I'm having a hard time seeing this being used.

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Technically it streamlines mortal support hero choices very well. Take stoker for ultimate reroll and +hit combination or take a killy dude and still be able to buff.

The +1 save bonus allows you to specialize heroes for opposing hero killing (sword of judgement for damage, thermalrider for flight or amberglaive for reach) and still get survivability. Also monster-focused armies exist, you will get a big matchup buff against them with this host.

It's better than both mortal hosts from the book, those give you weak conditional rerolls and mostly useless CP abilities, but still is inferior to demon Reaper lists.

Edited by Smooth criminal
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Good point on streamlining support heroes. There is a lot to be said for a universal Command Ability over the highly conditional ones of the other mortal hosts.

However I would say that the Goretide ability to reroll wounds of 1 near objectives  or Skullfiend reroll hits of 1 when within 12" of enemy heroes will come up far more often then the +1 save for killing a hero/monster.

I would also argue that both sets of command trait/artifact are superior to the Flayed options.

No doubt we will soon hear from those giving the Flayed a try and I'll give it a try at some stage and report back. 

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My $0.02 on Flayed: The artefact seems truly naff, and I never write lists with more than one battalion, so that hurts. The command trait might be useful in some few circumstances, but not many (and we kinda need to make a mid-field support character our general to benefit). The command ability is a great utility, but spends precious CPs on something we can do for free with a character we're always taking in an army that's a bit MSU-ish (eg: would you often spend a CP on 10 Bloodreavers?). The army trait is very good, but can be guarded against or mitigated unless we focus on Skullcrushers or Chaos Knights.

Overall, I feel that the Flayed may constrict rather than add options and flexibility, but I'm still trying to write some lists. My problem is that the lists tend to become all about chasing Heroes or Monsters around the board for that juicy +1 to save. Still trying though. 🙂

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