AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[Troll.exe]

I believe a genuine combination for a single combat phase will be Rejoice in the slaughter on Skarbrand and BoIR. Leave none alive on Skarbrand and All out attack plus killing frenzy on BoIR equiped with Deathdealer.

You still get to hit first with both of them and BoIR will still delete most things without the second attack.

Leave none alive on Skarbrand is pretty hard to give up still. Even just the ability to use one model/unit as an anchor point and pile in around and away from them twice. By the time you add the 2” range you can really open your opponent up.

[Salyx]

I do Not think that Bloodthirsters are ging to be really good in AoS 3.0, because one of their main strengths, bringing - 2 Rend to the army is kinda negated by the Modifikation cap. Most units can still save a BoIR's attacks on a 4+ or 5+, where every save really hurts. Furthermore, the meta is still very shooty, with KO, Cities and Lumineth still dominant. 

I guess the better Route is to go with units with many attacks or Mortal Wounds or both. 

So for me the meta units in Khorne are units like Marauders, Chosen, Bloodletter, Skullreapers and Wrathmongers and perhaps even Bullgors or Ghorgons. These units receiving attack buffs can do some serious work. 

For me a unit of 10 mongers is an auto-include because of their attack buffs and their damage Potential with at least 41 attacks, dealing Mortal Wounds on death and piling in on death via Skarr Bloodwrath. 

 

[Praecautus]

It’s still -2 rend for them even in the new rules.

[Battlefury]

Ok folks...let's get to matched play. We can not use our battalions there, but the tribes afaik. What can we do effectively?

Talking about participating in an event.

Edited August 1, 2021 by Battlefury

[Troll.exe]

8 hours ago, Salyx said:

I do Not think that Bloodthirsters are ging to be really good in AoS 3.0, because one of their main strengths, bringing - 2 Rend to the army is kinda negated by the Modifikation cap. Most units can still save a BoIR's attacks on a 4+ or 5+, where every save really hurts. Furthermore, the meta is still very shooty, with KO, Cities and Lumineth still dominant. 

I guess the better Route is to go with units with many attacks or Mortal Wounds or both. 

So for me the meta units in Khorne are units like Marauders, Chosen, Bloodletter, Skullreapers and Wrathmongers and perhaps even Bullgors or Ghorgons. These units receiving attack buffs can do some serious work. 

For me a unit of 10 mongers is an auto-include because of their attack buffs and their damage Potential with at least 41 attacks, dealing Mortal Wounds on death and piling in on death via Skarr Bloodwrath. 

 

Yes I agree -2 rend is a bit of an issue, that’s why I suggest taking Deathdealer on BoIR for -3 rend. And of course Skarbrand doing 48-96 mortal wounds with 1 attack profile always helps lol.

But yea against shooting it’ll always be hard work. Competitive Khorne starts and ends with Archaon.

[The Red King]

Okay well how do we maximize Archaon? Is it as simple as throwing all our buffs at him?

[Perturbato]

11 hours ago, The Red King said:

Okay well how do we maximize Archaon? Is it as simple as throwing all our buffs at him?

chaos warshrine, bloodsecrator, bloodstocker, BT of unfettered furry for 6" pile in, blood blessings(probably resanguination), reaper of vengeance CA and try the lowest drop possible. A belakor in the adverse team and you loose 😛

[Fuchur]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/08/02/meet-the-khornate-star-player-who-is-never-not-tackling-and-taking-skulls/

 

New Scyla for Blood Bowl, do you think that means Scyla will be squatted from AoS when a new BoK Battletome drops?

[The Red King]

2 hours ago, Fuchur said:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/08/02/meet-the-khornate-star-player-who-is-never-not-tackling-and-taking-skulls/

 

New Scyla for Blood Bowl, do you think that means Scyla will be squatted from AoS when a new BoK Battletome drops?

Idk but boy is that model not to my tastes. Looks like they gave him a squig head and overall he looks like a warcraft 3 character. Just awful. 

[TimeToWaste85]

Nope, I think the box will build him to allow for either game. I think the new Khorne book will hit at the same time, or slightly after

[Fuchur]

17 hours ago, Troll.exe said:

Competitive Khorne starts and ends with Archaon.

What about Vorgaroth/Skalok instead of Archaon? Do you think a competitive build would be possible? I know, no synergies with daemon buffs and more expensive pointwise but also a HUGE dmg output, self-healing, decent shooting, 30 wounds.

[The Red King]

6 minutes ago, Fuchur said:

What about Vorgaroth/Skalok instead of Archaon? Do you think a competitive build would be possible? I know, no synergies with daemon buffs and more expensive pointwise but also a HUGE dmg output, self-healing, decent shooting, 30 wounds.

With no ward save ~300 points of deepstriking sisters of the watch would average 23 wounds off him in a single shooting phase (all out defense takes that to 16) but that still means roughly 600 points of middle tier shooting would put him down in turn 1 for half the cost. No ward save is way too big a detriment imo. Makes him a great target for blessing I guess though.

[Perturbato]

2 hours ago, TimeToWaste85 said:

Nope, I think the box will build him to allow for either game. I think the new Khorne book will hit at the same time, or slightly after

Well the socks are auto included i think, no double build possible i think. But i'm maybe not a good khornate worshipper with the low hopes i have

[NinthMusketeer]

On 8/1/2021 at 12:36 AM, Fuchur said:

I`m curious, do you think that Reapers is still the best Slaughterhost from a competitive point of view? I mean, of course it can be devastating on Skarbrand or an Insensate Rage Thirster, but it can only be used on 1 unit per turn and if you attack a monster your opponent can turn it down with "roar" on a 3+. Wouldn`t be Baleful Lords with 4 Thirster worth considering? Or even Bloodlords?

I am speaking from a normal play point of view, turning things to competitive is a different beast entirely. Running 3-4 bloodthirsters in a casual game is a bit dickish unless one's local meta is pretty hardcore whereas at a tournament that is more or less a necessity. I do think Baleful Lords is worth considering simply because the potential threat range granted by run & charge forces the opponent to make difficult tactical choices in how they move. As for Bloodlords, the RR is obviously highly relevant in this edition but there are still quite a lot of non-hero non-monster units out there kicking ass and I feel like Khorne is already strong at countering hero/monster heavy armies anyways. The heal meant a lot more when heroic recovery wasn't a thing.

What pulls me back to Reapers over Bloodlords is the secondary stuff; there are some very high magic armies in the top tiers and extra magic hate helps with that. Skullshard Mantle on a bloodsecrator makes him extremely difficult for all but a few armies to put down since he will be ignoring spells on a 2+ and has a strong armor save already. An opponent absolutely can roar to stop the double-attack, but as mentioned by Charleston you can just use it with one of the other thirsters. It also means that the monster roaring is in combat with a bloodthirster and more often than not that is a good thing for the Khorne player; monstrous duel for +1 to hit combined with innate RR 1s to hit from allegiance puts a lot of thirster attacks at 2+ rerollable.

That all said it is not something I am very certain about. I would certainly be keen to hear from players with direct experience in the matter.

Quick note on Archaon; he is absolutely a powerhouse but it is also risky; Sons of Behemat counter him, and counter him hard. If one does not end up having to face up against SoB its great. If one does, not so much.

Edited August 2, 2021 by NinthMusketeer

[Lord Krungharr]

Excellent, I also have a SoB army!

But Tuesday night I'm fighting Seraphon Saurus knights with my Khorne Beasty army.  More of a casual intro game, I think the guy is sort of a new player.  Still, he needs to be schooled.  

Idea is the 2 cats move up early, along with the Chimera potentially to get into position.  The cats are low priority for most, but at 10 wounds in cover they can hang in there to steal minds when the time is right.  So theoretically the DP and Skarbrand can strike first at a heavy target (like the Oldblood Carnosaur), and 2 other of his units will be striking last hopefully so ALL the other units engaged of mine can strike before them, thus winning the activation wars and the game.  

I don't think he's got Kroak or the Slaann star wizards, but some skink wizards.  Hopefully between the Bloodsecrators and Flesh Hounds I can shut down some of that.  Very excited to get some Chaos action, been all Destruction lately.

SKULLS FOR THE THRONE!  (instead of dinner like my Ogors would say).

[NinthMusketeer]

Having new players get 'schooled' seems like an effective means of driving them away, but I don't know the context.

[Lord Krungharr]

I just meant taught how to play without holding his hand.  He was nervous when I said I was bringing SoBs and that it's only like his 6th game.  Figured Khorne was a pretty safe bet, was on the fence about bringing my Ironguts/Leadbelchers/Slaughtermasters army but they are too OP for a rookie too.. 

Skarbrand is maybe rough but I've haven't used him since 2018; answer to his Carnosaurs.  Chimera is just cool and I've never seen one in action.

[boyadventurer]

Does Archaon get access to spells beyond Bolt/Shield? I'm still wrapping my head around how all the coalition stuff works.

Edited August 4, 2021 by boyadventurer

[Lord Krungharr]

I think since he's a wizard he can take a spell from the Universal Lore.  Flaming Weapons on him would be great.

Played my above list tonight vs Coalesced Thunderlizards w 3 Carnosaurs, 2 foot Skink Priests and 1 floating chair version, plus 6x5 Saurus Knights.  Wow, those knights put out a bunch of attacks!  And sometimes he was able to give them MW on 6s to wound.  They whittled me down.

Alpha Beast Pack didn't help the Sphiranxes much, rolling 2/3 for their moves, same for Chimera.

It was Veins of Ghur, he let me go first so I just moved up and scored my Ferocious Advance.  He did the same and walled off his General carnosaur (my Vendetta target). 

Skarbrand rolled up turn 2 and cleaned up 5 saurus knights after my Daemon Prince engaged another wall of 5, Flesh Hounds got to some more.  He then declined to charge his general into Skarbrand bottom of turn 2 which was definitely a mistake on his part, but I forgot to halve his charge rolls from a Bastiladon and other carnosaur on my left flank as I had my Daemon Prince in range and spent the CP.  That cost me the game right there.  Long day, couldn't remember everything. 

DP held in there until bottom of 3 when the Bastiladon got through his armor and Amulet saves with his 3 tail whomps.  Bullgors whiffed as usual and died to that carnosaur that shouldn't have made the charge.  Top of 3 Skarbrand charged the General carnosaur and got a Carnage off for 8 MW, and the guy rolled five 6s and a 5, failing only 2 ward saves...YAHTZEE!  And Slaughter only caused 2 damage.  That sucked.  The Chimera died. 

Bottom of 3 I used my Blood Tithes for Apoplectic Fury, and Skarbrand struck again and did 24 MW to begin and then finally got my Vendetta!  But we motioned through what would happen and he won 21-14.  

DP is good with Finest Hour and the Amulet.   Very tanky and potentially a hero assassin.  Bullgors just whiff.  All my Beasts of Chaos are going in the closet for a while.  I'm gonna trade out the Bullgors for  Rage Thirster, and the Chimera for 2 Slaughter Priests or Khorgoraths or maybe I'll make a Soul Grinder.  The cats actually come in handy, just not til turn 3 usually.  

Skar Bloodwrath got his deepstrike off.  I could have used him and a retreating DP to get a Battle Tactic.  With less hordes though not sure Skar is worth it unless there are Wrathmongers to command.

[NinthMusketeer]

Chimeras just die. Consider: it is more difficult to kill 15 marauders than a chimera.

[Praecautus]

I’ve been reading the rules as uniques don’t get enhancements, that includes spells, which are considered to be an enhancement. Happy to be wrong though, we have kroak in another army we own

[Lord Krungharr]

That's a great observation; so Archaon probably can't take Flaming Weapons then.  Nor should he cast anything whilst romping with the Blood God!

I have all the bits to make a custom Insensate Rage Thirster; and I have a custom Skarbrand already.  If I had to pick, what should be my 3rd Bloodthirster?  I have some arms and heads and one more regular axe, plus the whip and flail bits.  The Wrath version seems pretty strong on its own but the Unfettered Fury version has that 6" pile-in/eligibility CA which seems pretty popular.

How does that negate Unleash Hell though?  Because daemons within range don't need to charge at all if they're within 6" of the enemy?

[Salyx]

You can still build Archaon with flaming weapons by equipping a hero with the book, so that He can cast Flaming Weapon. That uses up all your enhancements, but it is possible. 

 

About the Bloodthirsters: You can never have enough Insensate Rage Thirsters . For tactical reasons, the Unfettered Fury Thirster seems to be the most viable because of that 6" pile-in.

However, the Wrath of Khorne Thirster has some nice abilities as well. In Reapers of Vengeance, he can unbind 2 spells with a +2 Bonus and his shooting attacks are a nice Bonus. His command Ability looks good on paper. Nevertheless, it is outclassed by the Unfettered Fury Thirster's Command Ability. 

Skarbrand is the worst choice for Bloodthirsters. He can be devastating in melee if He gets there. If. He cannot fly, so he can be screened. He has 0 extra protection compared to other Thirsters so the opponent will put much effort into shooting him off, which will, depending in the army, not be very much. 

[Agent of Chaos]

@Salyx that wont work. Flaming Weapon only effects the caster's weapon so you cant have another wizard cast it on archaon and he cant cast it on himself due to being unique. He can only cast bolt and shield (and in a slaves can have a spell from their lore).

[Drib]

Next to 27.3.4:

Quote

Taking a spell lore enhancement allows every Wizard in the army to know 1 spell from a spell lore.

That's the "unless noted otherwise" part from 27.3.1